Originally Posted by batpig
But the "threshold of distortion" is DIFFERENT for the two! So if you ran each below that "threshold", the Emo would be at a higher volume! Which is exactly what you heard when you say "louder, cleaner, bigger". Without "level matching", it's somewhat meaningless.
Well, you did say that, here is your quote:.
My bad - I should have said that I did not solely compare the two when the AVR was clipping and the amp not. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt in your post.
I did indeed test them in many ways, as I am sure anyone would, given the opportunity.
Originally Posted by batpig
But, had you found a passage where the receiver amps were not being pushed into clipping/distortion, and then LEVEL MATCHED the Emo to it, I bet you would have had difficulty picking them out in a blind test.
I somewhat agree. I almost posted the same exact sentiment in my last post. But here's the thing: with the amp, I have the ability
to turn it up louder, and fill the room more without distortion, where I don't have that ability on the AVR. I fail to see how it could then be said that the AVR and the amp sound the same - the AVR is incapable
of producing the sound of the amp at those higher levels. By definition, they don't sound the same. But I think we are just into semantics now - because I think we are generally agreeing.
If you add the qualifiers to the testing parameters of backing below clipping levels on both units, and matching levels, then sure, it will be harder to tell them apart - your point is well taken. My issue with such a comparison is that is not how I will use this equipment in my daily use. I will, from time to time, turn it up the level where the amp performs well and the AVR does not. So for me and my listening habits, they certainly don't sound the same - one is objectively, factually better than the other.
But your points are well taken, and I think the different perspectives certainly highlight the difficulties of such comparisons and discussions.
I wanted to keep the above points only to the non-opinion part of the observations, because they are easier to bang-out. All that being said, I only "somewhat" agreed with you above, because I believe that the amp sounds better than the AVR at levels above about half the full volume up the distortion level of the AVR when the volumes were matched. Below about half volume, I agree - I would be unable to distinguish in a blind test. However, in the upper half of the range, the amp just sounded somewhat cleaner. This is a test that I performed with several pieces, and my wife noticed it as well. I purposely stayed away from this "opinion" part of the discussion above, because it is much harder to describe or quantify, and I know that it may appear to be that magical property of more expensive equipment and the user's desire for it to sound better, but this is what I observed. I feel the same way as what John Schneider just posted - there was a certain quality in the sounds of the amp that I liked better. But hey, that's just me.
In any case, it is a great discussion, and fun to try to describe what you are hearing with words.