Yamaha 3900, Pioneer SC-07, Marantz 8002 comparison - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 02-16-2009, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Did some analysis of the features for the receivers I am thinking about...here is what I came up with - maybe I could get some feedback and maybe it will also be helpful to others:

1) Yamaha RXV 3900
- USB
- Ethernet port
- Really nice GUI
- Anchor Bay Video processor - supposed to be a good one
- YPAO
- port for Ipod Dock/Bluetooth Dock
- 980w total power???? - not sure if this means anything at all...
- 140w/channel - not sure again if this means much


- lacks 2 component outs
- not sure what transformer - listed nowhere
- no THX certification
- requires external ipod dock for ipod - purchased separately
- YPAO vs. others?



2) Marantz SR 8002
- THX Select 2 rated
-780w total - ???
- 125w/channel - ?
- Toroidal Transformer
- 2 Discrete HDMI outs - not sure what Discrete means here...
- 2 component outs
- Audessey


- lacks USB
- lacks Ethernet port
- only rated at 125w/channel
- lacks GUI (I think)




3) Pioneer SC-07
- THX Ultra 2 Rated (class D) - ?
- 700w total power - ???
- 140w/channel - ?
- USB - ipod compatible or thumbdrive
- Ethernet port
- Digital AMP - ???
- Ice-Amps
- MCACC
- Wolfson processor
- 2 component outs


- will be discontinued???
- only 700w total power - huh?
- MCAAC vs. Audessey??
- Ice-Amps blowing during power outages for some




I made a list of Marantz dealers in my area (within 25miles) - I am going to check them out tomorrow and listen to one and also see if they have the SR6003 available.

Still looking, listening, learning!....
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post #2 of 14 Old 02-16-2009, 09:35 PM
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The Marantz (AFAIK) and the Yamaha are not rated all channels driven. So you can ignore the total system power number for them.

The Pioneer may be rated all channels driven, which means it's total system power may be closer to the truth.

The 3900 lacks the noise reduction features available on it's video chip. The Z7, using the same chip does implement them. Otherwise, the 3900's video processing seems to be excellent. It can process HDMI signals, which many receivers can't.

A few people have reported minor issues with the 3900, but it's been solid for me. If I would pick downsides, I would pick cost, lack of noise reduction (in spite of it's VP having it,) and a clunky network music interface. On the plus side, it's flexible, mostly easy to operate, comes with tons of surround processing options, and Rhapsody. Rhapsody works well, and I use it all the time ( via a free AOL account.)

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3 of 14 Old 02-16-2009, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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What exactly is Rhapsody?


Thanks Michael.

I am leaning towards the Yamaha because of the price and the lack of "significant negatives". However, I am still not sure.

I DO NOT need video processing at all because I have a Pioneer Kuro which does that for me. So, I am interested in enough power to drive my Studio 100 (front), Studio 20 (rear) speakers from Paradigm.

I watch movies 40%, sports 30%, TV 20% and music 10%.
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post #4 of 14 Old 02-16-2009, 10:37 PM
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Rhapsody is an online music service. With my free account, I can listen to any of 200 channels.

My free Comcast account had issues, so I switched to my free AOL account. I would be willing to pay for those channels, actually. It's that good, in my opinion. High quality (compared to your normal internet radio), commercial free, and a nice variety of music.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #5 of 14 Old 03-17-2009, 12:15 AM
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reviving this thread as i'm looking at similar decision between 3900 and 8002.

background - this will be my first receiver - i'm a bit of a newbie, but i'll jump into the HT hobby quickly and likely hi-fi as well. will have similar mix of listening as corpfan, maybe more movies and games and less sports/tv. music is 10% but as mentioned above will increase over time. fronts/center will be either monitor rs6s or totem rainmakers.

From my personal perspective:
In favor of 8002
- at a shop using rs6s and listening to cds vs 3900 and 906, thought marantz/onkyo to be richer/warmer than the yamaha.
- audyssey, i get the general impression perusing forums that it is better than ypao and my space will be a bit hard to configure (small room, high ceiling, surround channels likely odd placement), so putting this into 8002 corner unless noted otherwise.
- thx select 2, i really don't know how relevant it is compared to real-life listening experience but i am of post-george lucas generation so having vs not having thx still has to have some weight
- price, see below

Now in favor of 3900
- at the same shop as above, tested dvd for surround effects vs 8002 and 906 and found the surround effects more immersing. the exaggerated way to describe it is that though the 8002 and 906 gave me the impression that bullets were flying left to right, the yamaha made me want to duck. the shop seemed to be pushing yamaha's though, more on that later, so not sure if didn't pick up on some different settings they may have used to differentiate. They did take forever to set up the other two receivers.
- 2hdmi outs (where i could have plasma+projector at same time, to be honest not sure if this is the case for 8002 but i think not)
- gui. i havent seen it, but have read its good, and moreover marantz doesnt have over hdmi. to me a good interface is important for something with so many features and options, especially as i'm starting off.
- video features - havent tested and not sure how relevant it will be but i intend to learn more post purchase, and don't hear about marantz in this department at all..
- ethernet - i'm a big fan of networking stuff around though Im not sure how it will benefit my system yet, but having it is definitely in favor of 3900 if just for ease of firmware updates - reading on 8002 threads the difficult fw update process.


Independent of price, given my mix of usage i'm pretty set on 3900. However, the price factor is the main reason why i havent bought the yamaha yet. Where I am (not north america) the yamaha looks to cost around 700-800 usd more than the 8002. Comparing to prices I'm seeing on forums and online it looks like the yamaha is a touch pricier while the marantz is cheaper (for me <1k usd) than in NA.

Honestly havent shopped around aggressively for the yamaha but I feel the differential is not going to improve by that much. Moreover although I'm still leaning towards yamaha in price, now i'm not rushing to buy it immediately unless price differential much lower so i may as well vet out any lingering concerns about 3900 in the meantime, which are:.

- audyssey configuration vs ypao in room environment i described above
- could surround effects be that much more distinct with yamaha than a marantz, or if its just some setup differences in the shop i was in (the price differential was similar at that shop - so it won't surprise me if they were pushing yamaha over marantz after i told them home theater my priority)
- thx select 2, what am i missing
- On music/cd playback quality I figure a 3900 + another external amp to pass through the front channels will be better than marantz. Stupid question but checking if that would be the case? As music playback quality is something i see myself appreciating more in future than now i see this is the better way to approach it.
- speaker fit - havent tested any of these with totems yet, and i'm likely to be going with them for various reasons, and unable to test the combination where i am.

any feedback?
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post #6 of 14 Old 03-17-2009, 12:26 AM
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All I can say is that I really like my 3900. I even like it more now that I got it working with the Twonky media server program.

The network interface is now usable, because Twonky seems more responsive and because it's folder interface has indexing.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #7 of 14 Old 03-17-2009, 03:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I ended up getting the 3900.

For me, the price was better than the other receivers though.

I love...

- the dual HDMI outs - I use it for different settings for blu-ray vs. tv, etc...you can have them on separately or at the same time as well!

- the gui - just fantastic - all operating on-screen with simple clicks

- the ethernet port - to update firmware ridiculously easy and to play music off my computer

- the remote - even though I am not using it as my main remote (I have a Harmony One), it is a nice backlit remote

- all the features I don't have - just knowing they are there makes me feel future-proof

I am very happy with everything the receiver offers. I am glad I chose the Yamaha. YPAO seems to work nicely, although I do tweak things a bit to my liking.
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post #8 of 14 Old 03-17-2009, 10:33 PM
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thanks for the feedback

did you find yamaha's cinema dsp play a big role in your decision as well? I just don't come across much about it in the forums though it seems to be one proprietary thing that is exclusive to yamaha.
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post #9 of 14 Old 03-17-2009, 10:36 PM
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Cinema DSP is not really useful, in my opinion, even with presence speakers connected.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #10 of 14 Old 03-18-2009, 11:09 PM
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how about ypao vs audyssey multieq?

the sense i get from forums is that as a press-a-button solution audyssey will get the best results but ypao is manually configurable afterwards to get to the same level?

is this the case and is there anything i'm missing here? its impossible to test these these features so any elaboration would be appreciated since i have concerns over my room acoustics
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post #11 of 14 Old 03-19-2009, 05:39 AM
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Audyssey is technically superior as it has more filters and corrects problems in the frequency and time domain. YPAO only corrects problems in the frequency domain. That doesn't mean Audyssey will give better results than YPAO or MCACC. It really depends on how it is applied.

For example let's take 2 seats with different frequency responses. Seat 1 has a dip at 120hz and seat 2 has a peak at 120hz. Does the EQ fix the peak or the dip? It can't make both seats perfect. Does it give a preference to positon 1 or 2? Does it average them and fix the bigger problem or does it do nothing? Is the dip caused by a null which can't be compensated for with EQ because it is a placement issue? This is ony the tip of the iceberg and it is a lot more complicated.

Whether YPAO, Audyssey, MCACC, Etc. does a better job for a given room is impossible to predict. It has to do with the algorithm each EQ uses and if that algorithm is a good match for your situation. The lesser EQ with an algorithm that was designed for a room similar to yours will give better results than the technically superior EQ with algorithms designed for different situations. Typically the better the room the better the better job the EQ performs. Sometimes these auto EQ algorithms compensates for things it shouldn't giving poor results. That's why you'll see some people say they prefer the sound with no EQ.

There is no way to give you a good answer on which is best for your room. The only way is to try each one and see which you prefer. Unfortunately, that isn't always possible.

Bob
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post #12 of 14 Old 03-19-2009, 06:21 PM
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thanks for the response.
how about manual adjustments? i've read some threads that mention audyssey settings can only be recalibrated (with mic etc) whereas ypao can manually adjust settings after initial calibration.

I'm still new to this I dont know what those settings would be but the impression that i get is that so long as i put some time into adjustments ypao would allow me to improve and finetune upon algorithm based calibration settings.
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post #13 of 14 Old 03-19-2009, 08:52 PM
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The Yamaha is more tweakable manually, there are some trade offs with Pioneer. Yamaha has a better EQ but Pioneer has reverb control. Some Audyssey products can be manually adjusted with an installer kit. the Marantz is not one of those receivers. With the Marantz you can try placing the mic in different areas to see how the results turn out.

Either one of them you would need some type of instrumentation to do it right and some time researching EQ techniques. Knowing what is causing a problem, what should be fixed and what shouldn't is just as important as knowing how to use the EQ. Parametric EQ is a little more comlicated and flexible than graphic EQ whixh many are familiar.

I'd get a program like True RTA and a mic kit to go with it. It is worth buying the $100 version as the 1/24 th octave resolution is really helpful for subwoofers. Even though the Yamaha is ony about a 1/6th of an octave. This is a great way if you wish to learn and enjoy tweaking.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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post #14 of 14 Old 03-19-2009, 11:44 PM
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tks!, will look into it
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