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post #3331 of 3605 Old 04-12-2014, 05:27 PM
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Ok you guys are scaring me. No power protection. Wow. That's crazy. Sorry to put it so bluntly. Maybe it's (power)ok where you are. But our power is dirty here in Australia.
So ami better with Just a simple power surge with some power regulating. And forget the power storage and conditioning of the furman?
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post #3332 of 3605 Old 04-12-2014, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GianniP View Post

Ok you guys are scaring me. No power protection. Wow. That's crazy. Sorry to put it so bluntly. Maybe it's (power)ok where you are. But our power is dirty here in Australia.
So ami better with Just a simple power surge with some power regulating. And forget the power storage and conditioning of the furman?

Furman sounds good to me, It all comes down to current limiting in my book which the Furman does not and do give it time to settle before making a final call wink.gif and If you indeed have dirty power I'm betting you'll love the results smile.gif
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post #3333 of 3605 Old 04-12-2014, 05:59 PM
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Great. So shouldi forget other brands such as the Thor ps10 2013 model 10 amp ands isotek Aquarius 16 amp or isotek solos.
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post #3334 of 3605 Old 04-12-2014, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GianniP View Post

Great. So shouldi forget other brands such as the Thor ps10 2013 model 10 amp ands isotek Aquarius 16 amp or isotek solos.

Those are some great choices you have there and while some I'm only familiar by name mentioned here and there, I would do my due diligence and research a bit to vet each one out, then make a final decision wink.gif
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post #3335 of 3605 Old 04-13-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Furman sounds good to me, It all comes down to current limiting in my book which the Furman does not and do give it time to settle before making a final call wink.gif and If you indeed have dirty power I'm betting you'll love the results smile.gif

Claiming there is no current limiting and having no current limiting is not the same thing.
The Panamax 5400 (the same company as Furman) claims that for my amplifier outlet. I have no idea if they are current limiting. However, I know I will not plug an amp into that thing. If I plug my Plasma into it, it hums. Right now, it is a take one space device tongue.gif.

I opted for whole house surge protection wired into my Panel. Unfortunately, I realized that I have two panels, so I have to buy another one biggrin.gif

- Rich
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post #3336 of 3605 Old 04-13-2014, 08:54 AM
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I did the whole house surge protection also via the power company.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #3337 of 3605 Old 04-13-2014, 12:42 PM
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^^^ That's something I plan on looking into wink.gif
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post #3338 of 3605 Old 04-13-2014, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

In the 5250 v.2 manual it states that when the gain pots are set to "Normal" that 1-volt input will output 100-watts into an 8-ohm load. Based on this, using a Marantz AV8801 will only result in an output of 120-watts as the AV8801 outputs 1.2-volts. Is this correct or am I looking at this wrongly?

Anybody?
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post #3339 of 3605 Old 04-14-2014, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

Anybody?

The quantities are not related linearly; they are related logarithmically.

1.2 volts is the rated unbalanced output voltage. On a balanced output it will be 2.4V.

1.2V will produce a dB gain of 20 log_10 (V2/V1) = 20 log_10 (1.2) = 1.58 vs the 1V THX reference voltage.

Now to translate to Watts:

dB_gain = 10 log_10 (W2/W1)

1.58 = 10 log_10 (W2/100)

===> W2 = 143 W

James
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post #3340 of 3605 Old 04-14-2014, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayhikski View Post

The quantities are not related linearly; they are related logarithmically.

1.2 volts is the rated unbalanced output voltage. On a balanced output it will be 2.4V.

1.2V will produce a dB gain of 20 log_10 (V2/V1) = 20 log_10 (1.2) = 1.58 vs the 1V THX reference voltage.

Now to translate to Watts:

dB_gain = 10 log_10 (W2/W1)

1.58 = 10 log_10 (W2/100)

===> W2 = 143 W

James

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll have to experiment with the gain pots.
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post #3341 of 3605 Old 04-17-2014, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Why not A21 for L&R and A31 for center and side surrounds?

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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Furman sounds good to me, It all comes down to current limiting in my book which the Furman does not and do give it time to settle before making a final call wink.gif and If you indeed have dirty power I'm betting you'll love the results smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Claiming there is no current limiting and having no current limiting is not the same thing.
The Panamax 5400 (the same company as Furman) claims that for my amplifier outlet. I have no idea if they are current limiting. However, I know I will not plug an amp into that thing. If I plug my Plasma into it, it hums. Right now, it is a take one space device tongue.gif.

I opted for whole house surge protection wired into my Panel. Unfortunately, I realized that I have two panels, so I have to buy another one biggrin.gif

- Rich

I'm hearing so many people's experiences that these power conditioners do harm to the sound. If I choose to simply idea power strip surge board, would this be sufficient? What benefits will a Conditioner talky do. There are isotek evo3 power board with 6 Outlets with upgraded power cable. Would this be suitable?
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post #3342 of 3605 Old 04-18-2014, 12:40 AM
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I'll put it this way and lay out the way I went about it wink.gif

First I was using a Monster power center 2600 for my front end gear even though it had a high current section, I did try the Parasound HCA 2003a I had at the time on it and while it indeed cleaned up the highs a bit the lost in weight sent me back to the straight in the wall connection. Next up was two dedicated lines 20amp 10 awg on one and 20 amp 12 awg for the front end gear both less than 15ft from the breaker box cool.gif This was a game changer as I now heard for myself the benefits of clean unrestricted power on tap for my gear.

Not thinking it could get better in comes the A21 and an marginal increase in performance in fidelity. I then added a PS Audio Quintet ( also at this time Premier outlet) and Soloist Premier SE(in wall built in premier outlet) conditioners to the chain. The improvement was huge and kicked my gear into rivaling the best reproduction I've heard of recorded music.

Last year I further Isolated thing with the addition of PS Audio's Dectet . I know for myself with my own gear and will state that a Good power setup along with well made conditioners proper cabling are one of the big two for system setup with the other being a well treated room. These two yield performance increases that are really hard to quantify for what you get in return as to what you spend.

The dogma of old says no amps to a conditioner and back then they would be right ! Today not so much , in fact its better than the wall smile.gif
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post #3343 of 3605 Old 04-18-2014, 07:57 AM
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My next goal will be to redo the basement including a new electrical panel(bigger) and dedicated lines for the A21 as well as theater system upstairs.  I for one find the price tag of the PS audio stuff a little too much, but if one can get a good gain from dedicated circuits I'm all for it.  

 

I've also heard it said that you should keep all your gear in the system on the same phase or "hot".  House wiring has 2 lines coming into the panel, out of phase by 180 degrees.  Keeping it all on the same phase and keep motor loads like furnace and freezer off of your audio phase as much as possible.

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post #3344 of 3605 Old 04-18-2014, 08:18 AM
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My next goal will be to redo the basement including a new electrical panel(bigger) and dedicated lines for the A21 as well as theater system upstairs.  I for one find the price tag of the PS audio stuff a little too much, but if one can get a good gain from dedicated circuits I'm all for it.  

I've also heard it said that you should keep all your gear in the system on the same phase or "hot".  House wiring has 2 lines coming into the panel, out of phase by 180 degrees.  Keeping it all on the same phase and keep motor loads like furnace and freezer off of your audio phase as much as possible.

Keeping the equipment on the same phase helps eliminate ground loop.
I agree about he PS audio. It can't obtain power so you have a good plan.
I have a dedicated 20 amp service with 4 outlets and two separate plug that are fed from another panel. Far from ideal.
I plan to run a second. 20 amp service off of a dual breaker and connect all equipment to the two.

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post #3345 of 3605 Old 04-21-2014, 09:45 PM
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Does anyone have anything definitive on this?  Recently a P7 has come up for sale used and I'm now curious as to how the P5 would compare to it in the SQ department.  Someone on another forum is confident that the P5 is IC based, and I'm wondering if the P7 uses discrete circuitry or devices.  Or at least if it is superior sounding over the P5.

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post #3346 of 3605 Old 04-22-2014, 02:47 AM
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Based on what I was told, the P7 is a step above the P5. Both good, however.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #3347 of 3605 Old 04-22-2014, 11:57 AM
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I like the P7 for its Analog section better than the P5 but they are two different animals. It really depends on what features you are using and what type of bass management you might need phono stage etc.

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post #3348 of 3605 Old 04-22-2014, 04:32 PM
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Care to elaborate a bit? I'm a p5 owner and always contemplated the p7.
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post #3349 of 3605 Old 04-22-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post

I like the P7 for its Analog section better than the P5 but they are two different animals. It really depends on what features you are using and what type of bass management you might need phono stage etc.

I agree. I've been very fond of the MM phono stage in the P7. And the analog bass management is real iceing on the cake.

Good job.

See ya. Dave

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post #3350 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quick question about the P5. In order to use the bypass with a home theater processor; the bypass only works with RCA's, not the XLR's?

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post #3351 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 12:58 PM
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It works with both XLR and RCA outs. With RCA inputs and outs the P5 will work even on stand by mode. If you use RCA inputs and XLR outs the P5 needs to be ON for the HT bypass work properly. BTW Subwoofer RCA in/outs are independent so if you have a AVR with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT and you are running two subwoofers using HT bypass won't affect you Audyssey settings for the subwoofers. Meanwhile the XLR out is mono and it sums both RCA inputs internally.

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post #3352 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 01:16 PM
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So no XLR's in/XLR's out. Darn ruled that Pre out then.

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post #3353 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 02:32 PM
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The P5 does not have XLR HT Bypass inputs.

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post #3354 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
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Quick question about the P5. In order to use the bypass with a home theater processor; the bypass only works with RCA's, not the XLR's?

Mark, I think either can be used...just different connection. With the P7 either can be used, so the P5 should be the same.
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post #3355 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 03:56 PM
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Typically I would agree but they have the bypass listed [IN] RCA's. So thinking it might be RCA only.

My dealer has one of these coming in July he is letting me play with. Should be interesting. 4DHD, how was Japan?

http://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-dac/

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post #3356 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

Typically I would agree but they have the bypass listed [IN] RCA's. So thinking it might be RCA only.

My dealer has one of these coming in July he is letting me play with. Should be interesting. 4DHD, how was Japan?

http://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-dac/

Send a message off to Parasound.

Still here until tomorrow night. Saw your Dali speakers in a big box store, they were not hooked up, though. Same store where we heard the JBL 570 and others.
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post #3357 of 3605 Old 04-23-2014, 04:43 PM
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Nice to know they are there and local. VERY exciting!!

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post #3358 of 3605 Old 04-26-2014, 04:29 PM
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I was playing at reference levels for about 10 minutes and -3 for about 20 minutes with the A51 driving the Salons.
Those speakers can use power. The right-channel shutdown and the thermal indicator illuminated.

After powering off and putting a fan over the unit, all is well.
I doubt this would happen with most speakers, but here is one area where the A21 would likely be better because it has twice the heatsink area per channel.

It is good to know the thermal protection circuit works well. smile.gif

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post #3359 of 3605 Old 04-26-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I was playing at reference levels for about 10 minutes and -3 for about 20 minutes with the A51 driving the Salons.
Those speakers can use power. The right-channel shutdown and the thermal indicator illuminated.

After powering off and putting a fan over the unit, all is well.
I doubt this would happen with most speakers, but here is one area where the A21 would likely be better because it has twice the heatsink area per channel.

It is good to know the thermal protection circuit works well. smile.gif

- Rich

Someone was having a bit to much fun today biggrin.gif I have to say you may be right about the A21 as my big Boston E100's can be hogs as well ! but I've never went into thermal protection , it has gotten hot but after such listening sessions I'll turn on a ceiling fan or crank down the A/C wink.gif
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post #3360 of 3605 Old 04-26-2014, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I was playing at reference levels for about 10 minutes and -3 for about 20 minutes with the A51 driving the Salons.
Those speakers can use power. The right-channel shutdown and the thermal indicator illuminated.

After powering off and putting a fan over the unit, all is well.
I doubt this would happen with most speakers, but here is one area where the A21 would likely be better because it has twice the heatsink area per channel.

It is good to know the thermal protection circuit works well. smile.gif

- Rich
Just go all the way and get a pair of JC-1's and you'll have plenty of heat sink area per channel. biggrin.gif
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