Parasound Owners Thread - Page 130 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3871 of 4543 Old 01-12-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post
I would say a very wise decision by Richard.
From what I have read on ATMOS, I would not be surprised ATMOS goes the way of 3D. Needing flat ceilings, means no vaulted or coffers. And all the extra speakers if one does.
I've said many times, H/W channels are not needed if one takes the time to properly setup the LCRs. And I just don't see ATMOS being much better.
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post
I have setup 19 channels and 4 subs and I can tell you with absolute certainty that even DTS NEO X blows away 5.1 and 7.1 in immersiveness. And this is an absolutely properly setup system.

Atmos does fine with any shape ceiling as long as you can get speakers up there.

The upfiring speakers are nonsense... I definitely would not care for doing that.

Do some new wood trim on your ceiling and bury the wires in that. Getting creative as all that is needed along with some effort.

How much you want to spend os obviously a personal decision that will factor into massive multichannel.

I wish I could get my hands on cheaper hypex based multichannel amps. I would love to buy several high channel count hypex amps and be done with it. 6u rack space would be all that is needed and it wouldn't be too pricey with hypex modules.

Wow... and I was debating going from 5.1 to 7.1, and have decided against it because the rear channels would end up about 10 feet in the air, not to mention the extreme hassle of getting wires up there.

Even if I point the rears speakers down at my listening position, am I correct in assuming they wouldn't image properly?

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post #3872 of 4543 Old 01-12-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post
Wow... and I was debating going from 5.1 to 7.1, and have decided against it because the rear channels would end up about 10 feet in the air, not to mention the extreme hassle of getting wires up there.

Even if I point the rears speakers down at my listening position, am I correct in assuming they wouldn't image properly?
Perhaps, I have a system with Revel M20 speakers at 8 feet high and it sounds like a theater where the sound is high, except the fronts.

It's a personal preference, but I think it is just fine to have them up high and pointer down.
Can you temporarily rig something to see how you like it?

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post #3873 of 4543 Old 01-12-2015, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Perhaps, I have a system with Revel M20 speakers at 8 feet high and it sounds like a theater where the sound is high, except the fronts.

It's a personal preference, but I think it is just fine to have them up high and pointer down.
Can you temporarily rig something to see how you like it?

- Rich
I suppose I could--I've tried it once or twice with speakers on tripods. My concern is why bother if it makes, say, a dog barking behind you sound like he's 10 feet in the air.

Or pigs, flying pigs....

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post #3874 of 4543 Old 01-12-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post
I assume you mean a 5+ channel amp in the Halo line. Nothing in the pipes as far as I know of. We do have a new 12 channel that people are using for ATMOS,7.1, 9.1 etc. setups . Its the Zonemaster 1250.
I'll be reviewing this amp for just this purpose. Supposed to get it tomorrow, but have a construction project to get done before my review will "officially" start. Need to lower my vaulted ceiling about 6.5 feet at it's peak going down to just under 11 feet tall to flatten it out.

I'm going to be doing a feature on the entire process. I feel that what I'm doing is what most will be doing as well, which is leaving their surround speakers in their "traditional" spots (above walking height in the room), which has served us well going back to the Pro-logic days of Dolby, and then putting 4 in-ceiling speakers in their proper places. Hopefully I don't get much "commingling" of sounds, but in my particular room it's impossible to lower the surround speakers an inch let alone 6 feet to make them ear level while sitting. My height speakers will be between 4 and 5 feet above my 4 surround speakers when all is said and done.

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post #3875 of 4543 Old 01-12-2015, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post
I suppose I could--I've tried it once or twice with speakers on tripods. My concern is why bother if it makes, say, a dog barking behind you sound like he's 10 feet in the air.

Or pigs, flying pigs....

There are plenty of tall dogs and flying pigs at the cinema


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post #3876 of 4543 Old 01-12-2015, 10:45 PM
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There are plenty of tall dogs and flying pigs at the cinema


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post #3877 of 4543 Old 01-14-2015, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Perhaps, I have a system with Revel M20 speakers at 8 feet high and it sounds like a theater where the sound is high, except the fronts.

It's a personal preference, but I think it is just fine to have them up high and pointer down.
Can you temporarily rig something to see how you like it?

- Rich
Surrounds should be on a 15* angle from your ear level.
Obviously, the farther away the wall is from the seat, the higher it will be on the wall.
For a speaker 8ft above the floor and on that 15* angle would mean the distance from the seat to that wall would be 18ft. If that distance is less than 18ft, then the surround is way too high.

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post #3878 of 4543 Old 01-14-2015, 07:17 AM
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Surrounds should be on a 15* angle from your ear level.
Obviously, the farther away the wall is from the seat, the higher it will be on the wall.
For a speaker 8ft above the floor and on that 15* angle would mean the distance from the seat to that wall would be 18ft. If that distance is less than 18ft, then the surround is way too high.
Is that for rear channel as well? I never heard that before. I'll have to check my "side" surrounds.


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post #3879 of 4543 Old 01-14-2015, 08:27 AM
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No news about the Halo Integrated ? When it will be shipped ? There will be a silver option ?
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post #3880 of 4543 Old 01-14-2015, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post
Is that for rear channel as well? I never heard that before. I'll have to check my "side" surrounds.

I first read about 15* a few weeks ago...forget where.
I checked my surrounds and I was right at 15* or damn close.
My RS is a few inches closer than the LS.
Of coarse it depends where you are measuring to on the speaker. I choose to the tweeters.
My sides are 65" to the tops and the BS 75"...its about 5 ft further away.

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post #3881 of 4543 Old 01-14-2015, 12:18 PM
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No news about the Halo Integrated ? When it will be shipped ? There will be a silver option ?
There is lots of info all around the web about the Halo Integrated including a thread here on AVS.
Parasound Halo integrated amp

It will be available in Black and Silver.( photos of both colors on Parasound.com ) We don't have an exact ship date right now. I will post what I know when I know it.

Let me know if you have any specific questions in the mean time.

Other links for the Halo Integrated:
Cut Sheet:
http://www.parasound.com/pdfs/halo-i...-cut-sheet.pdf
Halo Integrated main page
http://www.parasound.com/halo/integrated.php
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post #3882 of 4543 Old 01-15-2015, 04:03 PM
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There is lots of info all around the web about the Halo Integrated including a thread here on AVS.
I did saw the specs on parasound site, it's great to know that will be a silver option.
The only thing is when it will be available.

In the Dac part it will always do upsampling to 384kHz or play the actual spec from audio file ?

Regards.
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post #3883 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 08:36 AM
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Finally pulled trigger on A23 and ordered it on AA new. There is an almost new one on audiogon.com right now for $400 less, second owner at least for less that year, but after long deliberation decided if I can afford new what the heck.
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post #3884 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 09:15 AM
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Finally pulled trigger on A23 and ordered it on AA new. There is an almost new one on audiogon.com right now for $400 less, second owner at least for less that year, but after long deliberation decided if I can afford new what the heck.
Congrats!

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post #3885 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 03:43 PM
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Congrats!
Thank you. I choose free shipping so it will take 8-10 days to arrive. Could not wait any longer so I am very excited to join club. I have 93db Mythos STS towers with powered subs and smaller living room so do not need much power. Still I understand that a21 would be a better amp regarding A-class mode but it is too big for my tastes. I have nice records mostly in hi res flacs, some SACDs, DVD-As and dying to hear how they would sound with a23. I hate CDs but have plenty of them too. I actually prefer flac ripped from LP rather than modern remastered CD. Cannot understand why recording companies stuck in past. But hey future is in hi res downloads, CDs are already dying replaced with mp3.

I read technical articles about humans not being hear the difference between CD and hi res audio given they use the same master. BS, I have e.g. Tarkus, same mastering, on CD and DVD-A and the difference is remarkable. Same with King Crimson, ELP, BSS. Totally agree with Curls arguments.
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post #3886 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 03:52 PM
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I am sure you love the sound of the A23 , will make your speakers sound awesome.. has plenty of power too for 93db.. my BP7002's are like 91 or 92 db and they get plenty of power from my A52 (which is basically a 5 channel version of the A23) Enjoy!!!!
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post #3887 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 03:53 PM
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Try ripping your CDs to flac. With the right gear I think they sound better.

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post #3888 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 06:08 PM
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Try ripping your CDs to flac. With the right gear I think they sound better.
As a matter of fact I did some. But for convenience. Actually David Murrey (have couple) CD sounds better than e.g. Grover Washington's Prime cuts collection. So mastering matters apparently. But same mastering as I said on hi res is much better than CD as in example with ELP Deluxes.

How can ripped CDs sound better? Dynamic range and compression (main issue with CD) is the same. Only thing I can think about is less digital noise if it is upsampled using well designed algorithm.

I will report how a23 sounds with OPPO-105 direct on Mythos Super towers. when get it and set it up.
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post #3889 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 06:37 PM
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As a matter of fact I did some. But for convenience. Actually David Murrey (have couple) CD sounds better than e.g. Grover Washington's Prime cuts collection. So mastering matters apparently. But same mastering as I said on hi res is much better than CD as in example with ELP Deluxes.

How can ripped CDs sound better? Dynamic range and compression (main issue with CD) is the same. Only thing I can think about is less digital noise if it is upsampled using well designed algorithm.

I will report how a23 sounds with OPPO-105 direct on Mythos Super towers. when get it and set it up.
I can't say for sure, but I think eliminating the spinning disk, etc, reduces jitter?

IMO, the most important factor in audio quality--all else being equal--is the skill of the recording engineer. IOW, a well recorded CD will sound better than a poorly recorded high -res or even LP.

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post #3890 of 4543 Old 01-16-2015, 09:02 PM
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I can't say for sure, but I think eliminating the spinning disk, etc, reduces jitter?

IMO, the most important factor in audio quality--all else being equal--is the skill of the recording engineer. IOW, a well recorded CD will sound better than a poorly recorded high -res or even LP.
CD is digital so spinning does not matter. It is loaded into buffer and then processed the same way as FLAC would. BTW you can upsample CD output without ripping it. Like e.g. upconverting DVD. DVD on BP with upconversion look higher res than it actually is. I forgot to say that digital noise is filtered if by nothing else then by speakers. In fact CD resolution might be enough. I have more issues with 16 bit dynamic range. It simply is not enough esp for classic music.
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post #3891 of 4543 Old 01-17-2015, 10:48 AM
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Red P on amps!

Does anyone know why one red light is brighter then the other? Is this a sign of a problem? I have an A21 and A31. The red light on the A21 is dim and the red light on the A31 is very bright.
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post #3892 of 4543 Old 01-17-2015, 01:41 PM
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Does anyone know why one red light is brighter then the other? Is this a sign of a problem? I have an A21 and A31. The red light on the A21 is dim and the red light on the A31 is very bright.
It is probably just the LED angle to the lenses.
I have both amps and they are bot too bright so I use LightDims.
They can be found on Amazon but the link I posted would bot work for some reason.

They work like a charm

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post #3893 of 4543 Old 01-17-2015, 01:54 PM
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CD is digital so spinning does not matter. It is loaded into buffer and then processed the same way as FLAC would. BTW you can upsample CD output without ripping it. Like e.g. upconverting DVD. DVD on BP with upconversion look higher res than it actually is. I forgot to say that digital noise is filtered if by nothing else then by speakers. In fact CD resolution might be enough. I have more issues with 16 bit dynamic range. It simply is not enough esp for classic music.
Without going too far off-topic, my experience is you can affect the sound by changing USB sound driver stings (WASAPI, Kernel Streaming, Direct Sound). Clearly no bits are lost but non-the less I have developed some preferences.

I also compared USB cables and I can easily hear a difference on my system.
It could be simple as shielding or perhaps a reduction is some artifact introduced in my PC. A similar sound change occurs with the BDP-105D.

The HA-1 direct to the A21 driving the Revels has produced more detailed natural sound than I have ever experienced in my home. I have had the Salons for 14 years now, so I have a pretty good idea how they sound

- Rich
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post #3894 of 4543 Old 01-18-2015, 07:49 AM
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Without going too far off-topic, my experience is you can affect the sound by changing USB sound driver stings (WASAPI, Kernel Streaming, Direct Sound). Clearly no bits are lost but non-the less I have developed some preferences.

I also compared USB cables and I can easily hear a difference on my system.
It could be simple as shielding or perhaps a reduction is some artifact introduced in my PC. A similar sound change occurs with the BDP-105D.

The HA-1 direct to the A21 driving the Revels has produced more detailed natural sound than I have ever experienced in my home. I have had the Salons for 14 years now, so I have a pretty good idea how they sound

- Rich
The PC is a horrible source, some motherboard have started advertising audio USB out, so check out their explanations.

In the past I've found HDMI to sound better than optical.... And bitstreaming to sound better than PCM.
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post #3895 of 4543 Old 01-18-2015, 12:13 PM
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The PC is a horrible source, some motherboard have started advertising audio USB out, so check out their explanations.

In the past I've found HDMI to sound better than optical.... And bitstreaming to sound better than PCM.
I do not see a point of using PC or phone to play hi res music on high end system. I simply attach portable HDD to OPPO-105. Serial protocols are pretty advanced to not allow loss of data. Crappy high speed cables can cause errors but in this case communication would not be possible. E.g. in PAR protocol packets are resent max twice if ACK is not received on time (say 40ms timeout). After that the other side declares system error and disconnects. There may be issues like occasional buffer underruns then you may decided to generate data from existing one using some algorithm for few samples since real time audio is not a critical data. I guess it may happen with CD. In case of bad cables though it will become unrecoverable error pretty fast. I cannot imagine high end player like OPPO having this kind issues. I avoid using PC or network drives to keep thing fast and simple and think low bitrate CD should not have an issue in modern player, I do not mean Chinese garbage.
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post #3896 of 4543 Old 01-18-2015, 01:26 PM
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I understand the thinking that digital cannot be harmed unless there is a complete loss of data.
However, I do accept the notion that re-clocking and passing the data through multiple DSPs in series could be harmful.

I have not owned an AVR/Processor that sounds the same in Pure Direct as Stereo mode with all processing flat.
This lends credence to the notion that not all processing is harmless, even when done digitally.

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post #3897 of 4543 Old 01-18-2015, 02:02 PM
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I understand the thinking that digital cannot be harmed unless there is a complete loss of data.
However, I do accept the notion that re-clocking and passing the data through multiple DSPs in series could be harmful.

I have not owned an AVR/Processor that sounds the same in Pure Direct as Stereo mode with all processing flat.
This lends credence to the notion that not all processing is harmless, even when done digitally.

- Rich
Processing is supposed to be turned off so it goes through pure analogue path which may be of different quality on different AV. But the same digital content decoded by the same DAC should sound exactly the same regardless of where it is loaded from. Bits are bits no matter where they are stored it is not an LP.
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post #3898 of 4543 Old 01-18-2015, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
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Processing is supposed to be turned off so it goes through pure analogue path which may be of different quality on different AV. But the same digital content decoded by the same DAC should sound exactly the same regardless of where it is loaded from. Bits are bits no matter where they are stored it is not an LP.

Rock on then, having learned all there is to learn.


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post #3899 of 4543 Old 01-18-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I understand the thinking that digital cannot be harmed unless there is a complete loss of data.
However, I do accept the notion that re-clocking and passing the data through multiple DSPs in series could be harmful.

I have not owned an AVR/Processor that sounds the same in Pure Direct as Stereo mode with all processing flat.
This lends credence to the notion that not all processing is harmless, even when done digitally.

- Rich
Here's an explanation that digital do not sound the same, which matches my experience. Even when there is no processing and just DAC.

http://www.gigabyte.com/press-center....aspx?nid=1232
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post #3900 of 4543 Old 01-18-2015, 06:45 PM
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Quote:Originally Posted by WillyJ 

Yeah, the weight of that beast is what kept me from buying the POA. I opted for 5 separate Parasound amps instead. Am now considering the JCs at least for the front L/R. The amps I have now are not balanced of course but I just wonder how much I gain by buying an amp that would keep the signal balanced - at least for the front L/R. One of the reasons I am holding off. However, not sure I would even be able to tell but I would always be wondering..........

Not sure which Parasound amps you're using, but I don't think upgrading just to keep everything balanced is a good reason to upgrade.

One benefit to the upgrade that I just noticed is that it seems to have greatly reduced a hum problem I had when using my turntable (my current phono preamp is a PS Audio GCPH). With the POA, which doesn't have a grounded power cord, I was getting a pretty noticeable hum at "normal" listening levels (ie: -25dB to -10dB, depending on the album). With the JC1's, which do have grounded power cords, I have to crank the volume on my Denon AVP somewhat well above 0dB (well above any sort of reasonable listening level) to hear any hum. I'm also considering replacing the GCPH with a Parasound JC3 Plus - I have to give that some more thought (and let my toy budget recover a bit ) as I don't tend to give the turntable a ton of use.
Did you ever add the jc3+ phono preamp? Like you I don't play as much vinyl as I used to but that's about to change. Hooked up a yamaha vintage control preamplifier to use its MC and MM phono stages. What a dramatic improvement from the phono section of a yamaha rx-v3300. It was so enjoyable I have spent the better part of my evenings since Christmas researching phono preamps. The Parasound Halo JC3+ seems to be what I want. At the last minute I looked at the esoteric but at double the price, don't think I will want to spend another few thousand for a new MC cartridge to mate to my Yamaha YPD-8 turntable. It has a medium mass arm and its a pleasure to use with multiple cartridges. Thanks.

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