Parasound Owners Thread - Page 143 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4261 of 4286 Unread 03-27-2015, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Given the discounts some dealers will give on some product lines, there are still plenty of high end lines with very healthy markups. If a dealer will give a 40% discount on a product, I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that they're still making at least a 10-20% profit on the sale, which is still $200-400 on a $2k sale or $2-4k on a $20k sale. If this is a customer who walks into the store and says "here's my credit card, I want to buy X", that's not so bad. If the customer takes many hours of the salesperson's time auditioning products, asking for setup advice, etc., then it might not be worthwhile. There are some brands (or some products within a brand) with small markups where discounts just aren't possible if the dealer wants to make any money. It would obviously be crazy for a dealer to sell an item below their cost unless it's something they've had in inventory for a long time and just need to recover what they can to get rid of it.

The main reason it would be idiotic to send the customer elsewhere for a small sale is that the customer most likely won't come back for a bigger purchase down the road as they'll most likely locate a dealer who actually wants their business and has the sense to know that sometimes you have to make a small sale to make a bigger sale later. I've run into that exact situation where a dealer made me feel like I was wasting their time on a small purchase - guess who I didn't purchase my Revel Salon 2 speakers from?
We sell a dozen different speaker lines and none of them are 60%. Making 10% may be enough to keep the doors open, but not enough to make a profit, if you are talking 2K sales. So you think taking in $200 is good? The sales staff has to be paid out of that and you have all of your overhead to take out. Keep in mind, most pay with credit card and there is 3% taken right there. Out of that $200, there would be nothing left for profit for the owner. If owners are not making a profit, they are not going to keep the doors open and since most of them have closed down, that should tell you that they were not making money.

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post #4262 of 4286 Unread 03-27-2015, 05:57 PM
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Exactly Mike. Business is business and the overhead for running a Brick and Mortar business in the USA varies by market from a low of 25% to a high of 44% (in San Francisco). You have to be able to cover this overhead if you want to keep the doors open. Why do you think so many B&M AV Specialty shops closed up their doors in the recession? They had already been hit hard by Internet-direct companies (Amazon, SVS, HSU, etc.) where in some cases (SVS and HSU) could sell you a better product than what they carried at 1/4 of the price. Then you take their bread and butter products (speakers, AV receivers, etc.), where Amazon and other companies would undercut them by 30% because Amazon didn't care whether they made money or not, they wanted to change people's shopping habits (and they did). Finally, you had TV's going from heavy boxes to small one's with flat screen technology, and now it was easy to order something from across the country and save hundreds of dollars. Smart B&M companies like Steve H's and Value Electronics were able to weather the recession storm and adjusted their business model for the Internet world by providing great service and tech support, being active on AVS and other forums for some "free" advertising, and are willing to ship product all around the USA at competitive prices. Furthermore, they sell some boutique items that have higher profit margins.

I'm all for getting the best deal possible, but sometimes I'm willing to pay a little bit more to buy locally to keep a local business in town. For example, I have a Lowes and Home Depot less than 7 minutes from me, but I'll drive 12-15 minutes across town to shop at a local Ace store because the owners live in the town, their kids went to the local schools, and I know the profit will go back into our local economy versus being shipped off to the corporate office in Atlanta or someplace else.

I'll get off my soap box now

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post #4263 of 4286 Unread 03-27-2015, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
We sell a dozen different speaker lines and none of them are 60%. Making 10% may be enough to keep the doors open, but not enough to make a profit, if you are talking 2K sales. So you think taking in $200 is good? The sales staff has to be paid out of that and you have all of your overhead to take out. Keep in mind, most pay with credit card and there is 3% taken right there. Out of that $200, there would be nothing left for profit for the owner. If owners are not making a profit, they are not going to keep the doors open and since most of them have closed down, that should tell you that they were not making money.
A dealer obviously can't sell product to every customer who comes through the door at just above cost and expect to get rich and it wasn't my intent to suggest that they can. However, we both know that many product lines do have pretty healthy markups. I have access to dealer pricing info for a few product lines where I can confirm that the dealer cost is 50% of the MSRP and have bought a number of products for 30-50% off of MSRP over the years, including a Lexicon MC-12B, a bunch of Crestron gear, Focal Electra series speakers, and some recent purchases (which I won't be as specific about as I've been asked not to be and respect that request), all when the products were current products. I also purchased an open box Denon AVP-A1HDCI for 50% of MSRP from Vann's while it was still a current product. In all cases, the dealer was still able to make at least a bit of profit on the sale and I typically bought directly from the owner rather than another salesperson, which presumably makes it easier to do those prices. We all know that the AVS Store and some other sources give pretty nice discounts on Denon AVR's if you call and ask (calling AVS is the #1 recommendation any time someone asks about getting a discount in the Denon threads). Obviously some of the boutique brands work on tighter margins and higher volume items such as TV's and lower cost items (such as lower end Bluray players or AVR's) tend to be on even tighter margins, so the dealer cost obviously isn't 50% of MSRP across the board, though some items such as accessories and cables have even higher markup.

A lot of dealers have closed down because they just don't know how to treat their customers. The guy who mentioned trying to buy a couple of $1000 DAC's several posts back and essentially got blown off by the salesperson is a perfect example. Why would one go back to that store after being treated like that? And is the salesperson so rich that they can afford to turn away an easy $2000 sale (even if it's "only" a hundred bucks or so of commission)? I worked in retail briefly while in college and I loved it when somebody walked in with cash in hand and asked for a large ticket item as it was obviously a lot less work than the customer you need to spend hours with to get the same sale.

I have no problem with a dealer making a good profit as they might want to have a nice home, a nice car, and be able to support a family just like the rest of us, but let's be honest that there are a number of product lines that still have pretty good markups where the dealer has a pretty decent amount of flexibility in pricing depending on the situation and their relationship with the customer.
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post #4264 of 4286 Unread 03-27-2015, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
A dealer obviously can't sell product to every customer who comes through the door at just above cost and expect to get rich and it wasn't my intent to suggest that they can. However, we both know that many product lines do have pretty healthy markups. I have access to dealer pricing info for a few product lines where I can confirm that the dealer cost is 50% of the MSRP and have bought a number of products for 30-50% off of MSRP over the years, including a Lexicon MC-12B, a bunch of Crestron gear, Focal Electra series speakers, and some recent purchases (which I won't be as specific about as I've been asked not to be and respect that request), all when the products were current products. I also purchased an open box Denon AVP-A1HDCI for 50% of MSRP from Vann's while it was still a current product. In all cases, the dealer was still able to make at least a bit of profit on the sale and I typically bought directly from the owner rather than another salesperson, which presumably makes it easier to do those prices. We all know that the AVS Store and some other sources give pretty nice discounts on Denon AVR's if you call and ask (calling AVS is the #1 recommendation any time someone asks about getting a discount in the Denon threads). Obviously some of the boutique brands work on tighter margins and higher volume items such as TV's and lower cost items (such as lower end Bluray players or AVR's) tend to be on even tighter margins, so the dealer cost obviously isn't 50% of MSRP across the board, though some items such as accessories and cables have even higher markup.

A lot of dealers have closed down because they just don't know how to treat their customers. The guy who mentioned trying to buy a couple of $1000 DAC's several posts back and essentially got blown off by the salesperson is a perfect example. Why would one go back to that store after being treated like that? And is the salesperson so rich that they can afford to turn away an easy $2000 sale (even if it's "only" a hundred bucks or so of commission)? I worked in retail briefly while in college and I loved it when somebody walked in with cash in hand and asked for a large ticket item as it was obviously a lot less work than the customer you need to spend hours with to get the same sale.

I have no problem with a dealer making a good profit as they might want to have a nice home, a nice car, and be able to support a family just like the rest of us, but let's be honest that there are a number of product lines that still have pretty good markups where the dealer has a pretty decent amount of flexibility in pricing depending on the situation and their relationship with the customer.
Open box is different and Vann's may have bought that from Denon as an open box item. Regardless, Full list price is a marketing tool, nothing more. To your point about selling at just over cost- if they do that, it's not a matter of getting rich, it's a matter of staying open.

Assuming you save money from your job, there's absolutely no difference between that and making a profit but the difference is that you don't want anyone to make a profit from YOU. Profit pays the bills, wages, covers cost increases when they order new product, pays for tools, supplies, training and a lot of things you aren't considering. If they need to make more, they have few choices- charge more or cut costs and when they cut costs, quality salepeople are one result. Ever go to Best Buy when they still had commissioned salespeople? They were a lot better than the little, useless dorks that take up space, now.
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post #4265 of 4286 Unread 03-27-2015, 08:43 PM
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You need to know that if the item is advertized, the dealers have signed an agreement to not advertise below a certain price. Also, some have adopted UAP, which is Unilaterally Advertised Price and one thing that prevents is Amazon and other online sellers undercutting real dealers. Pioneer cut off Amazon over two years ago and it was because Amazon basically told Pioneer to pound sand when they received a Cease And Desist letter. The have Pioneer again, but are playing along. A dealer shouldn't have to change the lines they carry every couple of years, just because someone wants to whore it out. The internet has erased most of the fundamental laws of economics because some people are too stupid or crooked to follow them. Operating out of a garage and not stocking the items advertised at/near dealer cost before the items even reach US shore is stupid. They didn't have the items I'm referring to and they never got them because they didn't have dealer accounts with the distributors who carried them. That still screwed up the market for over a year.
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post #4266 of 4286 Unread 03-27-2015, 09:23 PM
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^ Like I said, I have no problem with a dealer making a good income. But if an authorized dealer (I never purchase from dealers who aren't authorized) offers me a generous discount on a purchase, I'm not inclined to turn it down as they're presumably still making a profit that they're happy with on the sale or they wouldn't be offering the discount.

We probably ought to agree to disagree on some of these points and allow this thread to get back on topic.
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post #4267 of 4286 Unread 03-30-2015, 09:52 PM
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... and now, back to discussing Parasound and their products.
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post #4268 of 4286 Unread 03-31-2015, 11:10 AM
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... and now, back to discussing Parasound and their products.

I have an A21.


Like it...don't love it, but really like it. Back to you in the studio.

B&W CM9 S2, B&W CMC2 S2, DefTech XTR-20BP, SVS SB-2000, Parasound Halo A21, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Samsung UN55F8000, Apple Mac Mini, Iomega NAS
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post #4269 of 4286 Unread 03-31-2015, 11:24 AM
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I have an A21.


Like it...don't love it, but really like it. Back to you in the studio.
And in other news, I too have an A21. We just celebrated our second anniversary!
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post #4270 of 4286 Unread 03-31-2015, 12:19 PM
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And in other news, I too have an A21. We just celebrated our second anniversary!
Now interrupting your normally scheduled thread news for a breaking and completely uninteresting story...I got one of dem A21s too....it sounds sweet, I always think about what more I could have and what else I could spend money on, but it doesn't change the satisfaction I have that 75 pound big ole baby. She is turning 3 months old soon!

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post #4271 of 4286 Unread 03-31-2015, 12:30 PM
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I bought A23 recently,now I have to sell Marantz AVR. Stay tuned, coming back with more news after the break...
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post #4272 of 4286 Unread 03-31-2015, 12:32 PM
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A23 connected directly to OPPO-105 so not need for Marantz or stand alone DAC in any shape or form.
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post #4273 of 4286 Unread 03-31-2015, 03:31 PM
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Perhaps we should go back to discussing profit margins...

In case anyone is keeping track I have 2 x JC-1's and 1 x A51. Very happy with all 3.
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post #4274 of 4286 Unread 04-01-2015, 08:39 AM
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I have an A52 which has proven quite dependable and versatile. For example, my subwoofer amp failed (again!) and so I freed some channels up on the A52 to drive the orphaned subs. Who needs a plate amp when you have an A52 and a miniDSP.

It's a little underpowered for the application (or gain isn't enough) but it'll do until the amp is repaired (again!).

Needless to say, the other manufacturer is on my blacklist at the moment.

Now, if only Parasound could make a nice standalone dual-mono subwoofer amp....
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post #4275 of 4286 Unread 04-07-2015, 03:43 PM
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A23 connected directly to OPPO-105 so not need for Marantz or stand alone DAC in any shape or form.
This is also my setup with 10 yr. old B&W 685s'. Wondering how you adjusted your equipment. I used a sound meter and home theater setup cd to balance my speakers with the 105 volume at 100 and adjusted the L/R channel adjustments on the A23. Then adjusted the volume on my powered SW which is fed from the SW out on the 105.
This adjustment gives me a moderate 2.1 channel volume on the 105 of 60-80.
I'd be very interested in your experience with similar equipment.
Larry
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post #4276 of 4286 Unread 04-07-2015, 06:07 PM
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I have an A52 which has proven quite dependable and versatile. For example, my subwoofer amp failed (again!) and so I freed some channels up on the A52 to drive the orphaned subs. Who needs a plate amp when you have an A52 and a miniDSP.

It's a little underpowered for the application (or gain isn't enough) but it'll do until the amp is repaired (again!).

Needless to say, the other manufacturer is on my blacklist at the moment.

Now, if only Parasound could make a nice standalone dual-mono subwoofer amp....
You mean, an amp with, or without sub crossover and more extensive bass management? I could definitely see that- I prefer subwoofers that have a phase control to a polarity switch and that makes alignment much easier. The speakers need to be where they need to be and the sub needs to be where it needs to be and that, for me, is what makes a 0°/180° switch useless, unless it hits the mark by coincidence.

At this point, I'm not sure I'll be happy with my subwoofer, but I'll probably give it a shot. Using the line out to a separate amp and a different sub is about the only way I expect to get what I want. I was OK with what I had before but now, I WANT IT ALL!!!!!!!!!
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post #4277 of 4286 Unread 04-07-2015, 07:30 PM
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You mean, an amp with, or without sub crossover and more extensive bass management?
In the ideal world I'd like the mutant offspring of an A21 and a JL Audio CR 1 at a reasonable price. Especially if it allowed independent phase, delay and crossover settings for up to 4 subs.

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At this point, I'm not sure I'll be happy with my subwoofer, but I'll probably give it a shot. Using the line out to a separate amp and a different sub is about the only way I expect to get what I want. I was OK with what I had before but now, I WANT IT ALL!!!!!!!!!
I was using the pre-amp out from my integrated into the sub amp so I was getting full range signal to both the mains and the subs. Not ideal but didn't see a way around it without putting the miniDSP onto the main's signal path, which I don't want to do. It would have been nice to get the extra dynamics etc from not sending the lower frequencies to the mains. Even so it sounded very nice to me.

Now, since I had to replace my pre pro, the new one does that. Full Range plus subs is what they call it and it sounds very very good. Currently all my sources are digital so that makes it easier.
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post #4278 of 4286 Unread 04-07-2015, 08:56 PM
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This is also my setup with 10 yr. old B&W 685s'. Wondering how you adjusted your equipment. I used a sound meter and home theater setup cd to balance my speakers with the 105 volume at 100 and adjusted the L/R channel adjustments on the A23. Then adjusted the volume on my powered SW which is fed from the SW out on the 105.
This adjustment gives me a moderate 2.1 channel volume on the 105 of 60-80.
I'd be very interested in your experience with similar equipment.
Larry
I did not think much about it - I setup distance in 105 and then adjusted A23 inputs just for voice to be in center and make listening volume on OPPO about 80 to give enough room for volume adjustment. Then adjusted Marantz (which I still use for surrounds and sub) to get appropriate sound for 5.1 SACD. My speakers are Deftech Mythos STS and Gems. STS has a powered sub so I can additionally adjust subs on the back of speakers.

Never used Audissey or any processing on Marantz only Pure Direct. Difference is very noticeable between using Marantz as a preamp and connecting directly to OPPO. So it is kind of useless.
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post #4279 of 4286 Unread 04-13-2015, 01:47 PM
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Do you all tend to pick up your Parasound equipment from local dealers or online vendors? Any luck with discounts? I'm happy supporting local carriers, but when they rub you the wrong way or are an inconvenience to reach then I'm equally okay turing to online vendors.
I went to a local dealer and asked for a discount. The final price came up a bit cheaper than online price. If you become a regular customer at a local shop, then they can even try to get you bigger discounts. Other benefits include local support and keeping the shop in business.
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post #4280 of 4286 Unread 04-16-2015, 10:35 AM
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Hi guys. Anybody try to demo 2 SX1000 MK II's vs a Parasound Halo A21.

Here's my dilema. I have two SX1000 MK II mono-blocks, and one SX500 MK II mono-block powering Paradigm Studio 100v5's and a CC690v5. My side and rear surrounds are Paradigm ADP590v5, and Studio 20v5 bring in the rear. Powering my surrounds is an Emotiva UPA-500 (80w per channel). My 3 front run off XLR. The surround are RCA, from a Marantz AV7702 (Soon to be replaced with an AV8802). I was thinking of selling off the SX500, and UPA-500 and get an A51. This way my center gets powered by the A51. I feel my CC690 is not clear/low with voices sometimes and I have to increase the volume to hear the dialogue, & makes my setup simpler. I do listen to music as much as movies. My problem is, are my SX1000 mono-blocks competitive with the Halo A21. Any thoughts? I'm really looking for any input/ ideas on my situation.

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post #4281 of 4286 Unread 04-16-2015, 10:40 AM
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Don't have one 'yet', but I'm certainly itching to get a Halo A-51 in the near future

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post #4282 of 4286 Unread 04-16-2015, 02:59 PM
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I feel my CC690 is not clear/low with voices sometimes and I have to increase the volume to hear the dialogue
Could be a room acoustics issue. Or, what I've been noticing lately, is that some TV channels monkey with the center volume for reasons that escape me. Some channels, dialog and center are fine, others (I'm looking @ you ABC & Fox), the center volume is noticeably lower.
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post #4283 of 4286 Unread 04-16-2015, 03:10 PM
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Could be a room acoustics issue. Or, what I've been noticing lately, is that some TV channels monkey with the center volume for reasons that escape me. Some channels, dialog and center are fine, others (I'm looking @ you ABC & Fox), the center volume is noticeably lower.
I was thinking the same, most movies sound fine. I don't watch cable, but I do watch Netflix. I tried messing with the sounds. My Studio 100's sound great though in my room. Either way, I think it will be better to consolidate and remove the SX500 MKII, unless you guys advise against it. I know The center channel is very important.

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post #4284 of 4286 Unread 04-16-2015, 05:58 PM
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Have any folks here experimented with the Parasound Zphono MM/MC Phono Stage with USB unit?
https://www.parasound.com/vintage/zphonoUSB.php

Looks like a very cool product. I'm intrigued, as I'm wanting to get some sort of high-quality vinyl-to-digital conversion device (for my very old LP collection).
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post #4285 of 4286 Unread 04-22-2015, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post
Have any folks here experimented with the Parasound Zphono MM/MC Phono Stage with USB unit?
https://www.parasound.com/vintage/zphonoUSB.php

Looks like a very cool product. I'm intrigued, as I'm wanting to get some sort of high-quality vinyl-to-digital conversion device (for my very old LP collection).
on sale here

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...mber=PAZPHOUSB
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post #4286 of 4286 Unread 04-22-2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post
thanks.

Funny, I received an e-mail advertisement directly from Audio Advisor specifically for this "Zphono" (MM/MC Phono Stage with USB) device.

However, I noticed the Parasound web-site shows "discontinued"?:

http://www.parasound.com/vintage/zphonoUSB.php

This item is a fairly new product, curious why it is listed as discontinued? Wondering whether it would be wise to purchase from Audio Advisor, being they are on-sale and not in-production?
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