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Old 12-27-2015, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I find that separating the crossovers has benefits.
Can you clarify what you mean by separating the crossovers?

Every once in a while I contemplate using a MiniDSP nanoDIGI to do crossover duties digitally and then to use a pair of DACs to feed separate amps for the low frequencies and the high frequencies.

A complicated thought experiment utilizing a USB->SPDIF from a laptop, to the nanoDIGI to a pair of DACs, one to drive stereo subwoofers and the other to drive the mains.

The above is to avoid an analog->digital conversion which I find to be not all that transparent.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:13 PM
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I am still using a Black A51 to do my Atmos and Top speaker (VOG). Still a big Parasound fan.


My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Can you clarify what you mean by separating the crossovers?

Every once in a while I contemplate using a MiniDSP nanoDIGI to do crossover duties digitally and then to use a pair of DACs to feed separate amps for the low frequencies and the high frequencies.

A complicated thought experiment utilizing a USB->SPDIF from a laptop, to the nanoDIGI to a pair of DACs, one to drive stereo subwoofers and the other to drive the mains.

The above is to avoid an analog->digital conversion which I find to be not all that transparent.
The Salon2's can be bi-amped. One amp drives the woofers and other the mid-high's and the crossovers are no longer connected.
Both receive full signals. The mid-upper drivers receive the full-frequency signal but the passive crossover network filters out the low frequencies (high-pass). The mid-high crossover is no longer dealing with the high-power bass and back EMF from the woofers.

With the A21, I experimented playing just one channel in single and bi-amp configurations and felt there was sufficient benefit to get a second A21.
That and it looked cool to have the 3 amps on the bottom of my credenza.

- Rich
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
With the A21, I experimented playing just one channel in single and bi-amp configurations and felt there was sufficient benefit to get a second A21.
That and it looked cool to have the 3 amps on the bottom of my credenza.
Your photo shows a handsome setup that made me think I should get a cabinet for my 3 JC 1 mono blocks -- wish they were black rather than silver, but I bought used and had no choice.

db
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:01 PM
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RichB - I can only wish I had the $$$ to get a second A21, let alone a third

Well done, sir!
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Old 12-29-2015, 07:40 AM
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Sorry if this has been addressed and I've missed it, but this thread is too long to scan through.


Here's my situation........ I have a dedicated 2.1 stereo/sub setup consisting of the following:
  • Marantz SR6003 A/V Receiver used as Preamp/DAC
  • Adcom GFA-5500 2 channel amp(200Watts @ 8 Ohms/350Watts @ 4 Ohms both channels driven)
  • Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2's
  • Rythmik 12" Servo sub
  • Cambridge Audio id100 Digital Dock for iPhone/iPod/iPad sending digital bitstream to Marantz DAC.
Question is.....Has anyone compared my model AVR or similar($1,000 range) with the Halo P5 2.1 Preamp? If so, was there an appreciable difference in the two? I have been using the Marantz since 2010 including its onboard amps until April of this year when I added the Adcom and have enjoyed the sound, but have heard great things about the Halo P5.


Any insight is greatly appreciated!
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Old 12-29-2015, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTDIGITY View Post
Sorry if this has been addressed and I've missed it, but this thread is too long to scan through.


Here's my situation........ I have a dedicated 2.1 stereo/sub setup consisting of the following:
  • Marantz SR6003 A/V Receiver used as Preamp/DAC
  • Adcom GFA-5500 2 channel amp(200Watts @ 8 Ohms/350Watts @ 4 Ohms both channels driven)
  • Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2's
  • Rythmik 12" Servo sub
  • Cambridge Audio id100 Digital Dock for iPhone/iPod/iPad sending digital bitstream to Marantz DAC.
Question is.....Has anyone compared my model AVR or similar($1,000 range) with the Halo P5 2.1 Preamp? If so, was there an appreciable difference in the two? I have been using the Marantz since 2010 including its onboard amps until April of this year when I added the Adcom and have enjoyed the sound, but have heard great things about the Halo P5.


Any insight is greatly appreciated!
I had Marantz SR6005 and used it as a preamp for A23. Until attaching OPPO-105 directly to A23. I was appalled how I was able to tolerate that terrible SQ from Marantz. I did not even use DAC from Marantz (pure audio mode). Get rid of Marantz and buy Parasound, don't bother even to run A-B test. It is so evident. There is a good article about Japanese mass market electronics http://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/appl...audio-products

Source/Dac/Pre: OPPO-105
Fronts: Benchmark AHB2 -> DefTech Mythos ST-Ls
Surrounds: Parasound Halo A23 -> DefTech Mythos Gems

Last edited by upsetter; 12-29-2015 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:33 PM
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Hmm, interesting article. What were the major differences you heard after going direct to amp?
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Old 12-29-2015, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTDIGITY View Post
Sorry if this has been addressed and I've missed it, but this thread is too long to scan through.


Here's my situation........ I have a dedicated 2.1 stereo/sub setup consisting of the following:
  • Marantz SR6003 A/V Receiver used as Preamp/DAC
  • Adcom GFA-5500 2 channel amp(200Watts @ 8 Ohms/350Watts @ 4 Ohms both channels driven)
  • Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2's
  • Rythmik 12" Servo sub
  • Cambridge Audio id100 Digital Dock for iPhone/iPod/iPad sending digital bitstream to Marantz DAC.
Question is.....Has anyone compared my model AVR or similar($1,000 range) with the Halo P5 2.1 Preamp? If so, was there an appreciable difference in the two? I have been using the Marantz since 2010 including its onboard amps until April of this year when I added the Adcom and have enjoyed the sound, but have heard great things about the Halo P5.


Any insight is greatly appreciated!
I think some recent comparisons between the Yamaha 5100 and the Marantz 8802 included a Marantz receiver as a prepro and to their surprise the Marantz receiver was quite a step down (7009?) SQ wise. The 8802 was the favorite. I am sure the P5 would be a step up, but I would suggest the P7 but you would need a DAC. If you are considering multichannel sound in the future you could mate the P7 with an Oppo 105.
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Old 12-29-2015, 08:59 PM
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I think some recent comparisons between the Yamaha 5100 and the Marantz 8802 included a Marantz receiver as a prepro and to their surprise the Marantz receiver was quite a step down (7009?) SQ wise. The 8802 was the favorite. I am sure the P5 would be a step up, but I would suggest the P7 but you would need a DAC. If you are considering multichannel sound in the future you could mate the P7 with an Oppo 105.
It would be enough of a stretch to get the P5, let alone the 7 AND a DAC, not to mention an OPPO 105. If you can find that comparison could you link to it? Thanks for your input!
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Old 12-30-2015, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HOTDIGITY View Post
It would be enough of a stretch to get the P5, let alone the 7 AND a DAC, not to mention an OPPO 105. If you can find that comparison could you link to it? Thanks for your input!
Tough to search from phone but believe it might be in this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2152201-upcoming-event-yamaha-cx-5100-versus-marantz-av-8802-shootout-7.html#post38576089
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Tough to search from phone but believe it might be in this thread
Upcoming Event: Yamaha CX-5100 Versus the Marantz AV-8802 Shootout.
Thanks for the reference. I read some of the results/opinions but did not see anything regarding a receiver being compared. The takeaway for me is that a dedicated DAC is superior to even the very good ones in the 8802.....if you have the cash for the ones referenced at least. I have considered a separate DAC but it would bypass any benefit of bass management used with my Marantz. The P5 has a nice DAC + analog bass management built in so those would be covered.


I had the opportunity to listen to a Marantz 8802 in an Atmos setup and was impressed, but I'm staying 2.1 for my music only system. The 8802 is far above my budget anyway.
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Old 12-30-2015, 09:54 AM
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The takeaway for me is that a dedicated DAC is superior to even the very good ones in the 8802.....if you have the cash for the ones referenced at least.
That may or may not be true. I've listened to a bunch of built-in DACs versus a Bifrost and most were not as good or I ended up preferring the sound of the Bifrost. But, taking the same source (mpd-based) and feeding my pre-pro with an SPDIF signal through a converter I cannot hear any difference But, then again, my pre-pro cost more than the Marantz. Still not sure it was a wise "investment" but I'm enjoying it

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I have considered a separate DAC but it would bypass any benefit of bass management used with my Marantz. The P5 has a nice DAC + analog bass management built in so those would be covered.
Exactly! I'd like to upgrade the Bifrost but cannot see the point. Even if my pre-pro sounded slightly inferior to my DAC the bass management more than makes up for that. I have also tried running the DAC through the pre-pro but I can hear the soundstage shrinking in width quite significantly when I do that.

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I had the opportunity to listen to a Marantz 8802 in an Atmos setup and was impressed, but I'm staying 2.1 for my music only system. The 8802 is far above my budget anyway.
Yeah, the pre-pro market is in such flux I wouldn't go that way. I only got mine because my old one broke and I needed a replacement ASAP.

On the other hand the Nuforce pre-pro gets excellent reviews and is a great price.
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:48 AM
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Hmm, interesting article. What were the major differences you heard after going direct to amp?
It sounded muddled. Even considering that my speakers at time were not as good as now. I assume preamps were made of budget opamp IC and components are cheap in general. So many things are wrong about Marantz and best way to deal with it to sell it. You still can get good price for it since there are many in HT crowd who have no idea or do not care about SQ but care more about Audissey and other toys and features mainstream budget brands offer. Marantz issues new model every year while Parasound may be in decade. Good question to ask is: Why? It is all about features and not SQ.

Source/Dac/Pre: OPPO-105
Fronts: Benchmark AHB2 -> DefTech Mythos ST-Ls
Surrounds: Parasound Halo A23 -> DefTech Mythos Gems
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HOTDIGITY View Post
It would be enough of a stretch to get the P5, let alone the 7 AND a DAC, not to mention an OPPO 105. If you can find that comparison could you link to it? Thanks for your input!
If you have OPPO-105 you do not need prepro and DAC. OPPO-105 is a best deal on the market. Unless of course you want special effects and other wizadry killing SQ. Less components = less filters, less phase shifts, less distortion = cheaper. OPPO is pretty well integrated too.

Source/Dac/Pre: OPPO-105
Fronts: Benchmark AHB2 -> DefTech Mythos ST-Ls
Surrounds: Parasound Halo A23 -> DefTech Mythos Gems
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Old 12-30-2015, 12:57 PM
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If you have OPPO-105 you do not need prepro and DAC. OPPO-105 is a best deal on the market. Unless of course you want special effects and other wizadry killing SQ. Less components = less filters, less phase shifts, less distortion = cheaper. OPPO is pretty well integrated too.
True, the 105 would make an excellent 2.1 system.
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:22 PM
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True, the 105 would make an excellent 2.1 system.
Does it do bass management?
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HOTDIGITY View Post
Does it do bass management?
Sure.

Kal Rubinson

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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Old 01-04-2016, 07:13 AM
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The Salon2's can be bi-amped. One amp drives the woofers and other the mid-high's and the crossovers are no longer connected.
Both receive full signals. The mid-upper drivers receive the full-frequency signal but the passive crossover network filters out the low frequencies (high-pass). The mid-high crossover is no longer dealing with the high-power bass and back EMF from the woofers.

With the A21, I experimented playing just one channel in single and bi-amp configurations and felt there was sufficient benefit to get a second A21.
That and it looked cool to have the 3 amps on the bottom of my credenza.

- Rich
Rich how would you compare the A51 with the A21? I also really dig the halo lineup and my A21 is my favorite component/addition to my gear thus far.

I have been using my marantz sr7009 for surround and center amplification as well as pre/pro duties obviously and I run my jc2bp in bypass mode feeding the a21. I want to add a multi channel power amp and I may also sell/move aside the sr7009 for a preamp/pro if I can find a reasonably priced one that sounds better in this application. I have been torn between picking up a A51 in case I want to add a couple channels to my set up in the near future OR if the A51 seems to shine runnning 5 channels I may consider using my A21 in a second setup. I have also looked at A31 but I hesitate to purchase it as I do not think the A31 or the A51 will match the a21 in SQ. the reason i am considering them is that tehy would be running my center and two surrounds (perhaps four soon) which would not benefit from the additional power supply that my cm10s do.

thoughts? thanks in advance!

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Old 01-04-2016, 02:58 PM
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Rich how would you compare the A51 with the A21? I also really dig the halo lineup and my A21 is my favorite component/addition to my gear thus far.

I have been using my marantz sr7009 for surround and center amplification as well as pre/pro duties obviously and I run my jc2bp in bypass mode feeding the a21. I want to add a multi channel power amp and I may also sell/move aside the sr7009 for a preamp/pro if I can find a reasonably priced one that sounds better in this application. I have been torn between picking up a A51 in case I want to add a couple channels to my set up in the near future OR if the A51 seems to shine runnning 5 channels I may consider using my A21 in a second setup. I have also looked at A31 but I hesitate to purchase it as I do not think the A31 or the A51 will match the a21 in SQ. the reason i am considering them is that tehy would be running my center and two surrounds (perhaps four soon) which would not benefit from the additional power supply that my cm10s do.

thoughts? thanks in advance!
The A21's are used for my mains. The A21 has a bit bigger power supply and is quieter driving my mains (with my ear at the tweeter).
A completely non-scientific test I swapped in an A21 (from a friend) when I had the A51 alone and my friend and I felt it sounded a bit better, effortless.
We did not level match, though they should have the same gain.
With my speakers, a single A21 or bi-amping with an A51 would be a tough call.

I use the A51 with my center and rears. I bi-amped the center because, I had the channel.
I have lots of amp redundancy, therefore, I will have no problems

Since you are happy with the A21, I would stay with it.
I don't feel there is any difference between the A31 and A51 in terms of sound quality.

- Rich

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | Oppo PM-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:13 PM
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The A21's are used for my mains. The A21 has a bit bigger power supply and is quieter driving my mains (with my ear at the tweeter).
A completely non-scientific test I swapped in an A21 (from a friend) when I had the A51 alone and my friend and I felt it sounded a bit better, effortless.
We did not level match, though they should have the same gain.
With my speakers, a single A21 or bi-amping with an A51 would be a tough call.

I use the A51 with my center and rears. I bi-amped the center because, I had the channel.
I have lots of amp redundancy, therefore, I will have no problems

Since you are happy with the A21, I would stay with it.
I don't feel there is any difference between the A31 and A51 in terms of sound quality.

- Rich
thanks! I dont want to get rid of my a21 but i am stuck between adding an a31 or an a51 to finish out my center, SR and SL speakers and if i add a couple more channels the a51 would give me that option. I only have a 5.2 setup (not atmos!) so 5 channels (all B&W cm10s, CMC2 and CM5s for surround. I dont think they necessarily need a lot of power but I do feel they could benefit for surround music playback which I use this setup for more than music actually.

The A31 was my first thought as I dont have any speakers currently to match the CM line up i have so far to get a 6th and 7th channel. However, i experimented with some wides once and although i found it a bit distracting, i didnt do much tweaking, I did like it in some applications.

A51 and A31 are just so expensive for center and surround in my opinion. Wish I could get another A21 or a 3/5 channel version of it but the a31 and a51 are the closest i will find i guess.

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Old 01-04-2016, 04:34 PM
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thanks! I dont want to get rid of my a21 but i am stuck between adding an a31 or an a51 to finish out my center, SR and SL speakers and if i add a couple more channels the a51 would give me that option.
See if you can pick up a used A52. Love mine except when I need to move it. I'm using mine for dual centers, surrounds and back center and it's fantastic.

Somedays I wish Parasound would make a 7 channel sub...
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:42 PM
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i have a P7 and a A21. I have the A21 gain at max. When I turn the volume up on the P7 (with the Oppo 105 off), there is a lot of hiss noise from the speakers at around 85 and up volume level on the P7. what should i do?
i can hear the distortion after the music is off...after i stop the music on the Oppo. it can get annoying hearing that noise. the reason i listen to that level on the P7 because my Oppo Volume is set at variable at 72. I find that number to be the sweet spot for clarity at high volumes.

im thinking to adjust the gain on the A21 down to 12 o' clock or maybe get a power conditioner.

Last edited by covers; 01-04-2016 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:46 PM
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A51 and A31 are just so expensive for center and surround in my opinion. Wish I could get another A21 or a 3/5 channel version of it but the a31 and a51 are the closest i will find i guess.
A pair of A23's would be about the same price as a single A21.
I have no personal experience with them.

- Rich

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | Oppo PM-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by covers View Post
i have a P7 and a A21. I have the A21 gain at max. When I turn the volume up on the P7 (with the Oppo 105 off), there is a lot of hiss noise from the speakers at around 85 and up volume level on the P7. what should i do?
i can hear the distortion after the music is off...after i stop the music on the Oppo. it can get annoying hearing that noise. the reason i listen to that level on the P7 because my Oppo Volume is set at variable at 72. I find that number to be the sweet spot for clarity at high volumes.

im thinking to adjust the gain on the A21 down to 12 o' clock or maybe get a power conditioner.
I have had some bad experiences with power conditioners.

It's a pain, but you could disconnect the input to the amp and see if the hiss remains.
If the hiss is gone, connect the P7 only, all inputs P7 disconnected and add them back one at a time.
If the hiss remains, try a different outlet.

Also, try powering all devices from the same plug and using the A21 ground-lift.

- Rich

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | Oppo PM-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:13 PM
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none of that helpd.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by covers View Post
none of that helpd.
I would send an email to Parasound.

- Rich

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | Oppo PM-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:29 PM
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Finally received my A23 today. I have a nagging feeling I should have just gone for the A21, but guess you have to start somewhere. Probably won't be able to set up until the weekend, but looking forward to trying out and if I can hear a difference.


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Old 01-04-2016, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Superman07 View Post
Probably won't be able to set up until the weekend, but looking forward to trying out and if I can hear a difference.
I always thought it would be hard to hear a difference with amps. But then I got a Belles for my centers and oh, my! was that an audible difference. Even the wife blah blah. Then again using an old Krell integrated for L/R. So my belief system now includes the possibility that when switching amps one can hear a striking difference.

Just be sure to let it get to a good operating temperature before forming any conclusions. And let us know!
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Old 01-05-2016, 03:54 AM
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A pair of A23's would be about the same price as a single A21.
I have no personal experience with them.

- Rich
I have a pair of A 23s I now use for surrounds, but I used one to drive a pair of KEF LS50s before I bought an A 21. I much prefer the sound with the A 21 driving the LS50s. I was astonished that the A 21 - LS50 combination could handle even large orchestrations with such aplomb.
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