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post #5491 of 5611 Old 02-21-2017, 10:16 PM
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What do you guys think, a single A21 or two A23's being used in mono bridged mode to power a pair of Bowers & Wilkins 804 D2s?
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post #5492 of 5611 Old 02-22-2017, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
What do you guys think, a single A21 or two A23's being used in mono bridged mode to power a pair of Bowers & Wilkins 804 D2s?


Id go A21. More A class output.


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post #5493 of 5611 Old 02-22-2017, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
What do you guys think, a single A21 or two A23's being used in mono bridged mode to power a pair of Bowers & Wilkins 804 D2s?
From Stereophile:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/b...py2R27B62Jv.97

Quote:
The plot of the 804 Diamond's impedance magnitude and phase against frequency is shown in fig.1. The speaker is a moderately difficult load for the partnering amplifier to drive. Not only does its impedance reach a minimum value of 3 ohms at 108Hz, there is a combination of 4.5 ohms and a 53° capacitive phase angle at 72Hz, and the
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/b...AjfEvdqs1kl.99
Parasound recommends 8 ohm loads for bridging. The A21 or bi-amped A23 are the choices. Bridged is not an option for these speakers.

- Rich

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post #5494 of 5611 Old 02-23-2017, 07:11 AM
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Need a little advice

I have 2 Parasound A23's. I would like to use them to power my Monitor Audio Silver 8's. However, as these speakers are rated at 4 ohms, Parasound says I can't use the A23 's in mono.

I'm wondering the best way to get max power to my Speakers. Does the fact I'm also running an SVS PB12-Plus with the Silver 8's change the mono option now ?

Can I just run RCA's from the Recevier, LH into one A23 and the RH into the other ?

Appreciate any and all advice

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post #5495 of 5611 Old 02-23-2017, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post
I have 2 Parasound A23's. I would like to use them to power my Monitor Audio Silver 8's. However, as these speakers are rated at 4 ohms, Parasound says I can't use the A23 's in mono.

I'm wondering the best way to get max power to my Speakers. Does the fact I'm also running an SVS PB12-Plus with the Silver 8's change the mono option now ?

Can I just run RCA's from the Recevier, LH into one A23 and the RH into the other ?

Appreciate any and all advice
Try bi-amping a single speaker. I use stacking banana connectors to make the switch easy. I recommend running 1 speaker only and, if possible, single blind test. At the very least, bi-amping will keep the upper-end clean if you run out of power on the low end.

- Rich

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post #5496 of 5611 Old 02-23-2017, 07:52 AM
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Try bi-amping a single speaker. I use stacking banana connectors to make the switch easy. I recommend running 1 speaker only and, if possible, single blind test. At the very least, bi-amping will keep the upper-end clean if you run out of power on the low end.

- Rich
Great....I use Bi-wire speaker cable. Now I have to buy 2 runs of reg cable. *sigh*

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post #5497 of 5611 Old 02-23-2017, 11:58 AM
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Great....I use Bi-wire speaker cable. Now I have to buy 2 runs of reg cable. *sigh*
Just get 16 ga ZIP from a hardware store.
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post #5498 of 5611 Old 02-23-2017, 12:22 PM
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Just get 16 ga ZIP from a hardware store.

Or just use the the cables from the other speaker...


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post #5499 of 5611 Old 02-26-2017, 08:44 AM
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Just get 16 ga ZIP from a hardware store.
On a set like he has? That's like bringing your Ferrari to Jiffy Lube for an oil change.
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post #5500 of 5611 Old 02-26-2017, 09:07 AM
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I am a big fan of these banana connectors because they have plastic shields to avoid shorts, easily twisted ends to lock, and they can stack:

http://www.parts-express.com/angled-...insu--091-3608

I recommend using a single speaker to try bi-amping, Revel tests their speakers in DBT's with a single speaker. It much easier to listen for differences.
With these bananas, you can remove the straps connecting the high/low sections and then just switch between the stacking and using two channels for bi-amping at the amplifier. I can switch in < 10 seconds.

With some I amps and my Salon1's and Salon2's driven by the Parasound A21 the difference was apparent in a SBTs. This was easily identified in separate SBT session with to a couple of friends I brought in for listening sessions. However, I do believe any benefit involves specific speakers and amps. Some may experience no benefit. It is good to test in your system and draw your own conclusion.

I also recommend, splitting the signal with a Y adapter to avoid DSP based bi-amp processing in the processor. Run all tests using pure direct.
That may seem strange to some, but take a look at most processor reviews, the measurements are performed in direct mode and often specified that way as well.
Why..because that yields the best measurements. Ultimately, you may use processing but the goal is to remove as many variables as possible.

- Rich

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post #5501 of 5611 Old 02-26-2017, 11:52 AM
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On a set like he has? That's like bringing your Ferrari to Jiffy Lube for an oil change.
I use a pair of Parasound A 23s for surround and three JC 1 monoblocks for LCR. An A23 is no Ferrari; a JC 1 might be a closer analogy. I will admit that I never took one of my Ferraris to Jiffy Lube, although you could for a simple oil change.

db
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post #5502 of 5611 Old 02-26-2017, 01:42 PM
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I use a pair of Parasound A 23s for surround and three JC 1 monoblocks for LCR. An A23 is no Ferrari; a JC 1 might be a closer analogy. I will admit that I never took one of my Ferraris to Jiffy Lube, although you could for a simple oil change.

db
Hopefully you use decent speaker cable for your setup. If you doubt speaker cables make a difference, I urge you to go to your dealer and ask to try out some decent cables. In my opinion, I have never really heard a difference between ANY cable except speakers cables.
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post #5503 of 5611 Old 02-27-2017, 09:25 AM
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Any owners to the New Classic 2125 v.2 care to give their opinion on this amplifier. I've trying to go through this thread, but it is rather large and I'm finding it difficult to find info on this amplifier. Any response would be welcome. I want to use it to power my second zone speakers.

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post #5504 of 5611 Old 02-27-2017, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
Hopefully you use decent speaker cable for your setup. If you doubt speaker cables make a difference, I urge you to go to your dealer and ask to try out some decent cables. In my opinion, I have never really heard a difference between ANY cable except speakers cables.
I ended up doing a vertical bi-amp with the Parasound A23's with 2 pairs of Kimber Kable 8pr and 2 Pairs of Audioquest King Cobra RCA's.

Very happy with the results.

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post #5505 of 5611 Old 02-27-2017, 03:06 PM
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Hopefully you use decent speaker cable for your setup. If you doubt speaker cables make a difference, I urge you to go to your dealer and ask to try out some decent cables. In my opinion, I have never really heard a difference between ANY cable except speakers cables.
IIRC I'm using four Clear Day cables (biwired) from each JC 1 to each KEF Reference 107/2 and to the 204/2C, heavy ZIP through the walls and ceiling from the the A 23s to the LS50 surrounds. In another setup I'm using Blue Jeans best from a Proceed Amp 2 to a pair of racing red LS50s -- I expect to replace the Amp 2 with an Ayre VX-5 Twenty next month, but doubt I'll replace the speaker cables.

I take it you've heard no difference in sound with balanced or single-ended cables, is that correct?

db
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post #5506 of 5611 Old 02-27-2017, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
From Stereophile:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/b...py2R27B62Jv.97


Parasound recommends 8 ohm loads for bridging. The A21 or bi-amped A23 are the choices. Bridged is not an option for these speakers.

- Rich
I ended up getting an A21. It makes the most sense. I was also toying with the idea of getting a pair of JC1's instead but thought they might be a little overkill. There's a few on AudioGon for a really decent price, if you can let the physical condition of the units not bother you. Though I was told by a friend to pass on them due to them being for sale for quite some time despite them being priced to well. It just seemed a bit fishy. So I passed and bought a 3 month old black A21 from someone semi-local for a decent price. No regrets. I think the A21 will pair nicely with my PS Audio Directstream DAC and Bowers & Wilkins 804 Diamonds.

Last edited by Seegs108; 02-27-2017 at 09:47 PM.
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post #5507 of 5611 Old 02-27-2017, 09:47 PM
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I want to share something about Parasound that I hope might sway a potential buyer reading this thread into buying a Parasound amp. I've dealt with many consumer electronics companies over the years, but my limited experience with Parasound's customer support has been exceptional both times in the past I've contacted them. Richard Schram himself (founder of Parasound) has helped me both times directly even though I had originally contacted the general support email. Both times, up front, he knew I was buying or had bought my amps used, not from a dealer, and it didn't matter. He treated me as if I was a potential buyer getting a unit from a dealer where he'd at least be making some money off of me from my purchase. What surprised me most was how quickly I got email responses back. I had a response back within minutes on a Saturday evening and again the next day on a Sunday. What other company do you know that gets back to within minutes on a weekend? Or one where the president/founder emails you back? That's the kind of dedication Parasound has towards it's customer base, even for ones like me who didn't buy new from a dealer. I'm only 27 so at the moment I can't really afford to buy most of this equipment new. He also steered me away from the JC1s (I think he thought it was a bit fishy too) even though I was thinking of sending them to him for a check up and a possible capacitor swap due to them being at least a decade old (some potential money for his company to make on service). Overall I'm amazed by the level of honest and quick customer support Parasound provides. I plan on being a Parasound customer for life! For those who care about customer service and being taken care of when something goes wrong or if you have questions, Parasound is definitely the company for you. Richard, if you're reading this, thank you very much!!
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post #5508 of 5611 Old 03-01-2017, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I want to share something about Parasound that I hope might sway a potential buyer reading this thread into buying a Parasound amp. I've dealt with many consumer electronics companies over the years, but my limited experience with Parasound's customer support has been exceptional both times in the past I've contacted them. Richard Schram himself (founder of Parasound) has helped me both times directly even though I had originally contacted the general support email. Both times, up front, he knew I was buying or had bought my amps used, not from a dealer, and it didn't matter. He treated me as if I was a potential buyer getting a unit from a dealer where he'd at least be making some money off of me from my purchase. What surprised me most was how quickly I got email responses back. I had a response back within minutes on a Saturday evening and again the next day on a Sunday. What other company do you know that gets back to within minutes on a weekend? Or one where the president/founder emails you back? That's the kind of dedication Parasound has towards it's customer base, even for ones like me who didn't buy new from a dealer. I'm only 27 so at the moment I can't really afford to buy most of this equipment new. He also steered me away from the JC1s (I think he thought it was a bit fishy too) even though I was thinking of sending them to him for a check up and a possible capacitor swap due to them being at least a decade old (some potential money for his company to make on service). Overall I'm amazed by the level of honest and quick customer support Parasound provides. I plan on being a Parasound customer for life! For those who care about customer service and being taken care of when something goes wrong or if you have questions, Parasound is definitely the company for you. Richard, if you're reading this, thank you very much!!
Similar experiences here. Very unusual...and fantastic!

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post #5509 of 5611 Old 03-01-2017, 02:37 PM
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I received my black A21 today. I've seen an A51 in person before in silver. The black chassis is STUNNING. Not that the silver looks bad, but the photo's on Parasound's website don't do the black version justice.
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post #5510 of 5611 Old 03-02-2017, 02:32 AM
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I am a few days the happy owner of the A31 and I am delighted it is coupled to my amp onKyo 5009 for a set klipsch RF7II RC64II Rs62II It is pure happiness.
On the other hand I had a question with respect to the consumption in standby mode it seems to me that marked on the specifications for the A21 and the A51 in standby mode consumption 25W and for the 31 standby mode 1W is either an error or It's 25W also the more it sounds huge When the amp is just with the red LED lit that it consumes 25W ... do you have any information about it?
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post #5511 of 5611 Old 03-02-2017, 12:57 PM
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I am a few days the happy owner of the A31 and I am delighted it is coupled to my amp onKyo 5009 for a set klipsch RF7II RC64II Rs62II It is pure happiness.
On the other hand I had a question with respect to the consumption in standby mode it seems to me that marked on the specifications for the A21 and the A51 in standby mode consumption 25W and for the 31 standby mode 1W is either an error or It's 25W also the more it sounds huge When the amp is just with the red LED lit that it consumes 25W ... do you have any information about it?
This must be an error in the Owners manuals. The A31, A51 and A21 should only use approx. 2-3 Watts in standby.

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post #5512 of 5611 Old 03-02-2017, 02:45 PM
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This must be an error in the Owners manuals. The A31, A51 and A21 should only use approx. 2-3 Watts in standby.
I believe the product has evolved over the years but the manual did not keep up.

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post #5513 of 5611 Old 03-02-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jpcem44 View Post
I am a few days the happy owner of the A31 and I am delighted it is coupled to my amp onKyo 5009 for a set klipsch RF7II RC64II Rs62II It is pure happiness.
On the other hand I had a question with respect to the consumption in standby mode it seems to me that marked on the specifications for the A21 and the A51 in standby mode consumption 25W and for the 31 standby mode 1W is either an error or It's 25W also the more it sounds huge When the amp is just with the red LED lit that it consumes 25W ... do you have any information about it?
I have had mine for several months now and cannot say enough good things about the A31. Enjoy it, it is a wonderful amp.

Have fun with music and HT

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post #5514 of 5611 Old 03-03-2017, 05:27 AM
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already called parasound and talked with two guys at different times. both think it's "normal" not a defect on the amp, and i don't need to do/fix anything. but no one here thinks the same. just curious, are your hums caused by DC offset audible from listening positions? or just audible within 3 feet as in my case? thanks
Same issue and same response from Parasound here i.e. I've tried everything to resolve and could just be an unlucky combination of factors in my home/setup, best thing is to send back Halo units to dealer or sell (currently going down this route but reluctantly so).

Recently upgraded from a Anthem MRX 500 and Parasound Halo A52 to Anthem AVM 60 and Halo A51 + 3 x Halo A23's. Excellent sound when playing music / movies and beautiful, well built equipment, but audible hum from ~6ft away and loud when next to speakers coming from all channels in an 11 ch atmos system. Spoke to Parasound twice, Torus power same number of times (very helpful but potential solution comes down to $3200 - $4999 high end isolation transformer and not a guarantee to resolve), much internet research esp. Bill Whitlock @ Jensen Transformers and many calls / IM's to electrical engineer friend. Many calls to dealer also to try various combinations to isolate. No definitive root cause can be isolated.

Hum from any speaker (even tried loaner from different brand from local store to isolate HT speakers) regardless of input or no input, balanced XLR makes no difference, grounding rack, grounding individual non-grounded component like Anthem, ground lifts on Halo's makes no difference, ran extension cable to different room/circuit. Still get hum. It's basically like a curse.

The only improvement is for me to eliminate large toroidal transformer and use Class D or non A/AB amp i.e. Emotiva XPA Gen 3 (temporary Amazon purchase) eliminates and reduces hum to very low level which I'd be ok to call acceptable. Not really excited about not being able to use Class A/AB.

Could be a power line issue, doubt its ground fault at this point as verified grounding connections, had an electrician double check wiring and my own multi-meter measurements and house wiring seems ok (home only 5 years old and custom build + generally high standard workmanship & components).

Going to try a DC offset eliminator this weekend also, but reluctant to spend thousands on isolation transformer unless really, really necessary - problem is to find out I have to buy one and if it doesn't work, the experiment costs return shipping by freight and 15% restocking fee (fair terms but expensive for me given I've already spent $200 for an electrician to tell me everything looks good, nothing unusual going on). Also going to move some breakers around in breaker box esp. for 2 main circuits in theater room and put on same leg to eliminate issues resulting from potential asymmetrical AC/"DC offset" between the circuits.

Its a real head scratcher this one.
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post #5515 of 5611 Old 03-03-2017, 06:20 AM
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Same issue and same response from Parasound here i.e. I've tried everything to resolve and could just be an unlucky combination of factors in my home/setup, best thing is to send back Halo units to dealer or sell (currently going down this route but reluctantly so).

Recently upgraded from a Anthem MRX 500 and Parasound Halo A52 to Anthem AVM 60 and Halo A51 + 3 x Halo A23's. Excellent sound when playing music / movies and beautiful, well built equipment, but audible hum from ~6ft away and loud when next to speakers coming from all channels in an 11 ch atmos system. Spoke to Parasound twice, Torus power same number of times (very helpful but potential solution comes down to $3200 - $4999 high end isolation transformer and not a guarantee to resolve), much internet research esp. Bill Whitlock @ Jensen Transformers and many calls / IM's to electrical engineer friend. Many calls to dealer also to try various combinations to isolate. No definitive root cause can be isolated.

Hum from any speaker (even tried loaner from different brand from local store to isolate HT speakers) regardless of input or no input, balanced XLR makes no difference, grounding rack, grounding individual non-grounded component like Anthem, ground lifts on Halo's makes no difference, ran extension cable to different room/circuit. Still get hum. It's basically like a curse.

The only improvement is for me to eliminate large toroidal transformer and use Class D or non A/AB amp i.e. Emotiva XPA Gen 3 (temporary Amazon purchase) eliminates and reduces hum to very low level which I'd be ok to call acceptable. Not really excited about not being able to use Class A/AB.

Could be a power line issue, doubt its ground fault at this point as verified grounding connections, had an electrician double check wiring and my own multi-meter measurements and house wiring seems ok (home only 5 years old and custom build + generally high standard workmanship & components).

Going to try a DC offset eliminator this weekend also, but reluctant to spend thousands on isolation transformer unless really, really necessary - problem is to find out I have to buy one and if it doesn't work, the experiment costs return shipping by freight and 15% restocking fee (fair terms but expensive for me given I've already spent $200 for an electrician to tell me everything looks good, nothing unusual going on). Also going to move some breakers around in breaker box esp. for 2 main circuits in theater room and put on same leg to eliminate issues resulting from potential asymmetrical AC/"DC offset" between the circuits.

Its a real head scratcher this one.
My first thought was to ask how old your home is but you stated 5 years so it not old wiring. However it could still be a power issue. I can only share what we did when we built our dedicated room. It was to have it wired with 8, 20 amp dedicated lines all on separate breakers for the equipment. Lights and standard 15 amp outlets are all separate. The room itself has a completely separate breaker box from our home. My amp has its own power outlet and its plugged straight into the wall. Same with TV, sub, and the equipment room.

My question is. How much is being run on your power lines in the HT? For example is the refrigerator on the same line as the amp, preamp ?

I am using a Parasound A31 and a very old BK Ref 50, everything is dead quiet. One I had a hum issue in two channel and that was because my VTL 5.5 needed new tubes, it was tube hiss/hum, put new tubes in dead quiet. Do you have any tube devices hooked up in your system?

Good luck, chasing hums can be frustrating.

Gary

Have fun with music and HT

Gary
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post #5516 of 5611 Old 03-03-2017, 06:44 AM
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The only improvement is for me to eliminate large toroidal transformer and use Class D or non A/AB amp i.e. Emotiva XPA Gen 3 (temporary Amazon purchase) eliminates and reduces hum to very low level which I'd be ok to call acceptable. Not really excited about not being able to use Class A/AB.
The XPA Gen 3 is a class A/B amplifier with a switching power supply.

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Picked up a Halo Integrated over on Audiogon and I've been following this thread for a while, so now I can actually join in. Looking forward to its arrival and setting it up!


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post #5519 of 5611 Old 03-06-2017, 07:13 PM
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Picked up a Halo Integrated over on Audiogon and I've been following this thread for a while, so now I can actually join in. Looking forward to its arrival and setting it up!
Keep us posted on your thought and how you like it.

Have fun with music and HT

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post #5520 of 5611 Old 03-08-2017, 05:49 AM
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My first thought was to ask how old your home is but you stated 5 years so it not old wiring. However it could still be a power issue. I can only share what we did when we built our dedicated room. It was to have it wired with 8, 20 amp dedicated lines all on separate breakers for the equipment. Lights and standard 15 amp outlets are all separate. The room itself has a completely separate breaker box from our home. My amp has its own power outlet and its plugged straight into the wall. Same with TV, sub, and the equipment room.

My question is. How much is being run on your power lines in the HT? For example is the refrigerator on the same line as the amp, preamp ?

I am using a Parasound A31 and a very old BK Ref 50, everything is dead quiet. One I had a hum issue in two channel and that was because my VTL 5.5 needed new tubes, it was tube hiss/hum, put new tubes in dead quiet. Do you have any tube devices hooked up in your system?

Good luck, chasing hums can be frustrating.

Gary
Thanks for the response. Appreciate it. I have three circuits dedicated to the HT room, 2 x 20A and a 15A. Refrigerators etc are all on their own circuits. So other than HT equipment there are just some sconce lights and a ceiling fan plus an LED light strip thats non-AV related.

The new factor I noticed this weekend is that with nothing connected to the amps there is an audible hum from the transformer and I felt that when all my Parasounds were running for a movie they were putting out more heat than they should have been. This was also true when I tested an Emotiva XPA-7, however as another forum member pointed out, these are Class A/AB in the output stage also.

So it feels like a power line issue causing the toroid to vibrate and hum plus generate more heat than it sound be doing at these levels of output. I'm trying to get my electricity provider to come and test the line, otherwise I'll likely rent a power analyzer and let it gather data for a week. Ideally I can use this to incentivize the power company to look into the issue or at worst, I can isolate what kind, from the many, expensive power isolators/balanced power/power re-generation devices might help in my situation.

I'm also going to try a NAD M27 Class D amp just to see if there is a difference with that type of amp architecture.

Oh, how I wish this was a "simple" ground loop issue...
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