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post #2881 of 3800 Old 01-16-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Rather, at least compared to my Parasound HCA Series Amplifiers, the Emotivas are easier for a preamp stage to drive.

What characteristic of the amp makes that true? Is there something on the spec sheet that would indicate such a thing? (not a challenge, btw, just curious)
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post #2882 of 3800 Old 01-16-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

What characteristic of the amp makes that true? Is there something on the spec sheet that would indicate such a thing? (not a challenge, btw, just curious)

Input Impedance:

HCA: 33 k Ω
Halo: 47 k Ω unbalanced; 94 k Ω balanced
Emotiva XPA: unbalanced: 23.5 k Ω, balanced: 33 k Ω
Since higher is better, the Halos should be easier or the same difficulty to drive.

Gain:

Older Emotiva's have higher gain 32 DB versus the new Emotiva, HCA, and Halo amps which are 29 DB. If there is a difference, gain is it.

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post #2883 of 3800 Old 01-16-2014, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Input Impedance:

HCA: 33 k Ω
Halo: 47 k Ω unbalanced; 94 k Ω balanced
Emotiva XPA: unbalanced: 23.5 k Ω, balanced: 33 k Ω
Since higher is better, the Halos should be easier or the same difficulty to drive.

- Rich

Isn't that contradicting what was said above "Emotiva is easier for pre-amps to drive" or somesuch?
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post #2884 of 3800 Old 01-16-2014, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

What characteristic of the amp makes that true? Is there something on the spec sheet that would indicate such a thing? (not a challenge, btw, just curious)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Input Impedance:

HCA: 33 k Ω
Halo: 47 k Ω unbalanced; 94 k Ω balanced
Emotiva XPA: unbalanced: 23.5 k Ω, balanced: 33 k Ω
Since higher is better, the Halos should be easier or the same difficulty to drive.

Gain:

Older Emotiva's have higher gain 32 DB versus the new Emotiva, HCA, and Halo amps which are 29 DB. If there is a difference, gain is it.

- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

Isn't that contradicting what was said above "Emotiva is easier for pre-amps to drive" or somesuch?

The input impedance is about the same, the gain could be higher (easier to drive) with the older Emotiva's but not the latest models. This is just data for the curious wink.gif

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post #2885 of 3800 Old 01-16-2014, 06:50 PM
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That is because the old XPA line(not the brand new release) had a gain of 32db, which is on the hot side, but works better with the economy pre outs of the mid level AVR's that crap out above 1 volt.  The down side of the hot gain is some owners with sensitive speakers complained of hiss.  Others complained of sibilance with certain speakers, so its kind of a trade off.    The new XPA are not easier for a pre amp stage to drive as their gain is 29.  Different strokes for different folks, I've had both Emotiva and Parasound and easily preferred the Parasound amps with my speakers.

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post #2886 of 3800 Old 01-17-2014, 03:26 AM
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Exactly. I have an HCA-3500, 2205AT and 1000a. All older HCA models. As I wrote prior, it really has been my Aragon that has been more difficult for some AVR's I have used to drive. I did think the delta was larger between the older Emotiva's that I am most familiar with and Parasound in terms of input sensitivity, but glad to know regardless. Am pretty sure that the older Emo's do have a higher gain structure than the amps I use.

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post #2887 of 3800 Old 01-17-2014, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jvanloon View Post

Thanks 4DHD. I appreciate the response. I guess this has more to do with the fact that I'm looking to potentially move to 802 Diamonds across the front in the near future and I'm thinking they are going to need some more power. I currently also have a set of golds in the rear which will stay and I have separate amplification for the rears if needed... currently using the halo. I was wondering if bridging would be possible as an alternative to buying new amps for the front stage.

I have A 51 with B&W 802D2 fronts and 804D2 surrounds and it sounds good at loud levels (-10 on Integra DHC-80.3 master volume).
I'm not sure what clipping sounds like but i don't think i've heard it yet.
Room is 29 x 22 x 8 feet or 5100 cubic feet.
I leave fronts at 40Hz XO and surrounds at 50Hz XO and i use two JL Audio f113 subs.

B&W 802 Diamond mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center, B&W 804 Diamond surrounds, Parasound HALO A 51, Krell KAV-300i , Integra DHC-80.3 pre-pro, two JL Audio Fathom f113 subs, Panasonic TC-P65VT50 65" plasma
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post #2888 of 3800 Old 01-17-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by razz589 View Post

Thaks for all the replies. I figure I should be able to get $2500.00 for my A51, while admitting that I will lose a little over what I originally paid, I will end up with around a $1500.00 to the plus iafter getting the Emotiva. The only pain is shipping the A51, even though I have the original double box...that thing is one heavy beast!

Did you pay US$4500 for a new A51 before taxes and shipping?

B&W 802 Diamond mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center, B&W 804 Diamond surrounds, Parasound HALO A 51, Krell KAV-300i , Integra DHC-80.3 pre-pro, two JL Audio Fathom f113 subs, Panasonic TC-P65VT50 65" plasma
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post #2889 of 3800 Old 01-17-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

Did you pay US$4500 for a new A51 before taxes and shipping?

No
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post #2890 of 3800 Old 01-19-2014, 11:19 AM
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A couple of upgrade questions. Assuming I do not plan to use the DAC or bass management, is there much of an improvement going from the 2100 preamp to the new P5? Also, has anyone compared the A21 to the Rotel RB-1080 with B&W N805s? This is for nearfield, so the extra 50W certainly doesn't make a difference here.

Thanks
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post #2891 of 3800 Old 01-19-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Iostream View Post

A couple of upgrade questions. Assuming I do not plan to use the DAC or bass management, is there much of an improvement going from the 2100 preamp to the new P5? Also, has anyone compared the A21 to the Rotel RB-1080 with B&W N805s? This is for nearfield, so the extra 50W certainly doesn't make a difference here.

Thanks

I think just a page or two back, someone compared the P5 to the 2100 and thought they were about the same.
But that the 2100 did not have a very good phono stage. Of coarse, if one does not have a TT then it does not matter.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Denon disc player, MacBook Pro w/ DragonFly usbDAC.
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post #2892 of 3800 Old 01-19-2014, 03:31 PM
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I read that. Interesting to keep in mind. Anyone have impressions on the A21 as an upgrade to a Rotel RB-1080 for B&W 805s?
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post #2893 of 3800 Old 01-19-2014, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iostream View Post

I read that. Interesting to keep in mind. Anyone have impressions on the A21 as an upgrade to a Rotel RB-1080 for B&W 805s?

I have an A52 driving B&W 805 signatures and they sound great
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post #2894 of 3800 Old 01-19-2014, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

I have an A52 driving B&W 805 signatures and they sound great

I am sure they do, but the Rotel sounds great too, I have never heard B&W driven by anything but Rotel, Classe, or McIntosh. I was wondering how the Parasound compares to Rotel. Anyone who has heard both?
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post #2895 of 3800 Old 01-19-2014, 07:47 PM
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I have not heard the rotel with b&w, but I have a A21 driving a pair of 804 an have no complaints at all.
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post #2896 of 3800 Old 01-19-2014, 09:44 PM
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I have A51 driving 802 Diamonds and 804 Diamonds - sounds good to me.

B&W 802 Diamond mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center, B&W 804 Diamond surrounds, Parasound HALO A 51, Krell KAV-300i , Integra DHC-80.3 pre-pro, two JL Audio Fathom f113 subs, Panasonic TC-P65VT50 65" plasma
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post #2897 of 3800 Old 01-20-2014, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

I have A 51 with B&W 802D2 fronts and 804D2 surrounds and it sounds good at loud levels (-10 on Integra DHC-80.3 master volume).
I'm not sure what clipping sounds like but i don't think i've heard it yet.
Room is 29 x 22 x 8 feet or 5100 cubic feet.
I leave fronts at 40Hz XO and surrounds at 50Hz XO and i use two JL Audio f113 subs.

Nice setup. B&W 800 Series are on my list of speakers I am debating as I have been using ESL Martin Logans for the past 7 years in my HT and just want to change things up. It is between 802's (Main/Surrounds), Thiel CS 3.7's, and Focal 1037/38BE's currently.

While no doubt your B&W's are quite good at the XO's listed, what made you decide to XO below 80hz considering the subwoofers? I am using a Martin Logan Descent i and Martin Logan Depth with Audyssey XT32 (SubEQ HT) to excellent effect. While Audyssey sets my Vantages and Vistas at 50hz, the first thing I do after running Audyssey is change it to 80hz.

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post #2898 of 3800 Old 01-20-2014, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Nice setup. B&W 800 Series are on my list of speakers I am debating as I have been using ESL Martin Logans for the past 7 years in my HT and just want to change things up. It is between 802's (Main/Surrounds), Thiel CS 3.7's, and Focal 1037/38BE's currently.

While no doubt your B&W's are quite good at the XO's listed, what made you decide to XO below 80hz considering the subwoofers? I am using a Martin Logan Descent i and Martin Logan Depth with Audyssey XT32 (SubEQ HT) to excellent effect. While Audyssey sets my Vantages and Vistas at 50hz, the first thing I do after running Audyssey is change it to 80hz.

It all comes down to what sounds better for any given system in a particular room.
I have my P7 XO set to 50 for my Custom L/R. Sounds better than at 80.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Denon disc player, MacBook Pro w/ DragonFly usbDAC.
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post #2899 of 3800 Old 01-20-2014, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post

That is because the old XPA line(not the brand new release) had a gain of 32db, which is on the hot side, but works better with the economy pre outs of the mid level AVR's that crap out above 1 volt.  The down side of the hot gain is some owners with sensitive speakers complained of hiss.  Others complained of sibilance with certain speakers, so its kind of a trade off.    The new XPA are not easier for a pre amp stage to drive as their gain is 29.  Different strokes for different folks, I've had both Emotiva and Parasound and easily preferred the Parasound amps with my speakers.

Yup, I can confirm that the JC1 is way too sensitive to ground loops. Still haven't figure out how to solve the HDMI ground loop yet, or maybe I just need to switch to a pre-pro with XLR...
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post #2900 of 3800 Old 01-20-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Nice setup. B&W 800 Series are on my list of speakers I am debating as I have been using ESL Martin Logans for the past 7 years in my HT and just want to change things up. It is between 802's (Main/Surrounds), Thiel CS 3.7's, and Focal 1037/38BE's currently.

While no doubt your B&W's are quite good at the XO's listed, what made you decide to XO below 80hz considering the subwoofers? I am using a Martin Logan Descent i and Martin Logan Depth with Audyssey XT32 (SubEQ HT) to excellent effect. While Audyssey sets my Vantages and Vistas at 50hz, the first thing I do after running Audyssey is change it to 80hz.

thanks

It's funny you should mention the XO. I have done a lot of reading on the web and there are so many articles that state that if you have good subs, don't make your amp and mains work harder than they need to. Always use the THX recommended value of 80 Hz for XO. So i always did that - always. But one day i decided - hey - what the heck - B&W spent a lot on developing these speakers and i spent a lot buying them so why not let them do what they were designed to do. They go down to 34 Hz (-3 dB) after all so 40 Hz (from Audyssey XT32) is not outrageous. I did it more as an experiment than anything else after many many months of the same thing - 80 Hz. I wanted to see what the speakers sounded like with 40 Hz.

I think the difference is definitely discernible with two channel music with or without PL IIx.
The 802 diamonds are at different locations in the room compared to the two Fathom f113s.
All around - a definitely noticeable difference. Whether it is "better" or not - i have not decided yet. I am leaning yes.

Also, the Halo A51 is a gem IMO.

B&W 802 Diamond mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center, B&W 804 Diamond surrounds, Parasound HALO A 51, Krell KAV-300i , Integra DHC-80.3 pre-pro, two JL Audio Fathom f113 subs, Panasonic TC-P65VT50 65" plasma
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post #2901 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Nice setup. B&W 800 Series are on my list of speakers I am debating as I have been using ESL Martin Logans for the past 7 years in my HT and just want to change things up. It is between 802's (Main/Surrounds), Thiel CS 3.7's, and Focal 1037/38BE's currently.

While no doubt your B&W's are quite good at the XO's listed, what made you decide to XO below 80hz considering the subwoofers? I am using a Martin Logan Descent i and Martin Logan Depth with Audyssey XT32 (SubEQ HT) to excellent effect. While Audyssey sets my Vantages and Vistas at 50hz, the first thing I do after running Audyssey is change it to 80hz.

I would defintely suggest Monitor Audio platinum series on your short list. I have 802d speakers and recently heard the top of the line monitor audio which are in same price range. The ribbon tweeters on them sound truly great and i found i preferred them to the 802's sound.

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post #2902 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 06:52 AM
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Parasound equipment has always sounded great no matter where I have heard them in stores.

It's the parasound pre-amps with hometheater bypass that I am really curious about integrating into my system. I basically like stereo listening with very high sensitivity speakers so I do not like pre-amps which "hiss" when idle. I also prefer stereo WITH bass management in-line and I keep my pair of subs right next to my mains to allow for a higher mains crossover (about 80hz).

I use a marantz 8801 mainly for the home theater aspect and for bass management.

I really do prefer bass management for stereo listening since my speakers are so-so for bass under 60hz.

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post #2903 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 08:26 AM
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Does Parasound not offer a 5 channel amp any longer in the classic lineup?
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post #2904 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyman View Post

Does Parasound not offer a 5 channel amp any longer in the classic lineup?

check out this demo from audio advisor

http://www.audioadvisor.com/Parasound-5125-125-Watt-THX-Ultra2-Five-Channel-Amplifier/productinfo/1PAC5125/#.Ut6XMrQo6Uk
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post #2905 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 09:24 AM
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I'll take that as a no then..... smile.gif

Is there something in the works to fill this void, or just a lack of sales ceasing production.
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post #2906 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 11:58 AM
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I'll take that as a no then..... smile.gif

Is there something in the works to fill this void, or just a lack of sales ceasing production.

I read somewhere that they were selling many more 5 channel Halos so the lower end model was discontinued.
This is not surprising.

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post #2907 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I read somewhere that they were selling many more 5 channel Halos so the lower end model was discontinued.
This is not surprising.

- Rich
You got it. No new 5 channel amp in the works to replace the 5250 V.2 or the 5125. Sales were slow on the A52 5250 V.2 and the 5125 so they got the boot.

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2250 Mckinnon Ave.
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post #2908 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 02:37 PM
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You got it. No new 5 channel amp in the works to replace the 5250 V.2 or the 5125. Sales were slow on the A52 5250 V.2 and the 5125 so they got the boot.

Is it strictly more power that people wanted or is there something else I'm overlooking?

I like my A52 and 5125.
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post #2909 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

Is it strictly more power that people wanted or is there something else I'm overlooking?

I like my A52 and 5125.

In my opinion yes people like more power even if they never ever tap into it. They just like to know its there. Unless you have some very power hungry, low sensitivity 4 Ohm speakers, an A52 or 5125 will handle most situations. Another way to look at it is that an A51 gives people more power to grow into for the inherent upgrade bug that we all get with our speakers.

Again, this is my take.

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post #2910 of 3800 Old 01-21-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post


You got it. No new 5 channel amp in the works to replace the 5250 V.2 or the 5125. Sales were slow on the A52 5250 V.2 and the 5125 so they got the boot.

This is sad for those of us who like Parasound amps but lack Halo sized wallets. frown.gif

Btw, I'm a happy 5250 owner. wink.gif

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