**Offical** Yamaha RX-V665 AV Receiver thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1951 Old 06-23-2009, 07:40 PM
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Has anyone noticed any improvement in sound quality from upgrading the firmware?

I still have the factory firmware. I was not too pleased with the sound quality when I first purchased this to replace my old Pioneer THX. My amplifier has not changed - my receivers are just used as pre amps, so the sound differences to my ears is definitely from the processing. The YPAO PEQ sound is heavily filtered, flat or natural, it it most noticible on dialog and vocals, it sounds better with it just off and best with the Pure Direct mode enabled I just cant stand the clicking of the circuitry.

I've been trying to update the firmware, 4 DVD players and all are unable to play the disc. So I may just skip it unless there is an improvement in sound quality. It would also be nice to adjust the lip sync delay per input, but i replaced all my hdmi cables and I don't seem to need much adjustment now.
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post #452 of 1951 Old 06-23-2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyecatcher127 View Post

Has anyone noticed any improvement in sound quality from upgrading the firmware?

I still have the factory firmware. I was not too pleased with the sound quality when I first purchased this to replace my old Pioneer THX. My amplifier has not changed - my receivers are just used as pre amps, so the sound differences to my ears is definitely from the processing. The YPAO PEQ sound is heavily filtered, flat or natural, it it most noticible on dialog and vocals, it sounds better with it just off and best with the Pure Direct mode enabled I just cant stand the clicking of the circuitry.

I've been trying to update the firmware, 4 DVD players and all are unable to play the disc. So I may just skip it unless there is an improvement in sound quality.

The FW update won't help. Sounds like you are describing a setup problem. Flat EQ with YPAO should sound terrific unless something is amiss with the results or you are using some DSP mode.
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post #453 of 1951 Old 06-23-2009, 08:11 PM
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no its no setup issue. Ypao calibrated everything very close to perfect actually, just the PEQ doesn't impress me so i have turned it off. I've tried it several times flat and natural. Maybe its the mic? I was actually thinking about returning it and trying a new pioneer 1018 with mccac or Marantz 5003 with audyssey if it wasnt for the pure mode sound quality.

And All the DSP modes are off when i listen to music/movies. I don't like the way any of them sound they are far from terrific. straight sounds the best pure even better. I was hoping some equalization would enhance my setup I guess it just isnt a good combo for my speakers/acoustics/ears. I guess i"m the only one experiencing this.

The clicking I"m talking about is the pure direct, i hear clicks on and off when I change the channels particularly when the the video resolution changes ie from 1080 to 720 or vice versa, but once it locks in, pic and video is crystal clear. I appreciate this mode it would just be nicer if it was silent. I like how the video switching is extremely quick. I had calibrated an Onkyo for a friend and the delay with channel changes even in passthru was horrendeous. I recently also did a Marantz av8003 which was a little better.
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post #454 of 1951 Old 06-23-2009, 08:33 PM
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Hi -- This thread has been very helpful in my decision to retire my Pioneer 1016 and get the 665. I use these receivers as pre-pros feeding my lovely Marantz MM-9000 5-channel amp. This approach has allowed me to get what I consider outstanding audio and good video at a very reasonable cost (I spend my money on speakers!).

First impressions:

1. Setup, compared to past experiences, was fairly easy. Maybe I'm getting smarter?
2. Before running YPAO, I tried out 2-channel stereo with the sub. On my reference recordings, I have to tell you that the sound is out of this world. Imaging, clarity...great. I'm impressed.
3. After YPAO, I tried out reference CD's with PLIIx (I love immersion sound). Again, out of this world.
4. I'm running the Panasonic BD-35 -- no problems with handshakes. Upscaled DVD's and BD's look amazing. Sound quality is clear, and the surround effect is a bit better than with the 1016.
5. I have always poo-poo'd the DSP effects...but I'm telling you that some of them are pretty darned useful.
6. It is so nice not to have to switch my monitor inputs, with everything coming in over HDMI.

At this point, for $400, I feel like I am a very happy guy. However, I am having one problem that I hope you can help me with.

I am running a Scientific Atlanta HD box and taking the video signal out over component into the 665. My monitor is an industrial Panny plasma (1080i) with no scaler, and at the time it was installed I ran a long run of DVI to it (HDMI was flaky at that time). Out of the 665, I use a Monster adapter to mate the DVI cable to the HDMI output port. In the 665 setup under HDMI, I have selected Resolution = 1080i and Aspect = Smart. What I really, really wanted was to have SD channels from the SA box automatically upscaled and stretched to fill the screen. That ain't happening! When I send a 480i signal to the 665, pressing the Options button and checking the signal verifies 480i in and 1080i out...but the picture looks unscaled and is not stretched! Any clues?

I will weigh in as I explore more features of the 665 (I just got it set up yesterday).

Thanks for the wisdom.
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post #455 of 1951 Old 06-23-2009, 10:30 PM
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Far as I know, the 665 can't deinterlacer or scaler HDMI video. Analog only.

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post #456 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 08:35 AM
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I have an issue with my 765. I just set the unit up properly (I owned a 611 previous)
The reason for the upgrade was for the DolbyHD And DTS Master decoding.
When I play a Bluray with DolbyHD, the volume is LOWER than PCM and DTS. I never had a problem with a Dolby Digital DVD on the 611. The sound was almost the same no matter what sound had to be decoded.
Case in point--- I put in Air Force One. When the opening Sony titles come on, they are in PCM. I set my receiver for the proper volume. When the movie comes on, it becomes DDMaster and I have to raise the volume on the amp at least another 5DB's. Is this an inherent problem that Yamaha has to correct, or is it just MY receiever. Please help as I would have to return the unit within 10 days. Does the 665 have the same issue?
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post #457 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randello54 View Post

Case in point--- I put in Air Force One. When the opening Sony titles come on, they are in PCM. I set my receiver for the proper volume. When the movie comes on, it becomes DDMaster and I have to raise the volume on the amp at least another 5DB's. Is this an inherent problem that Yamaha has to correct, or is it just MY receiever.

It's not a Yamaha problem. There is a big variation in volume from disk to disk, between audio formats on the same disk, and from player to player (i.e. if you have the player decode to PCM, you'll likely get a different volume than if bitstreaming, and different players will not all give you the same PCM volume).

You just have to adjust the volume for each movie once it starts playing (which was often true for DVD as well, it's just worse with Blu-ray because there are more formats).
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post #458 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 08:58 AM
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Does TrueHD have dialnorm or something like that? That could make a difference. Also, are you using any compression settings on the 665? Adaptive DRC etc?

There's little likelyhood something is wrong from the info you give.

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post #459 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 09:20 AM
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I am using NO compression settings and I am using the STRAIGHT setting. As I said before, although my previous Yamaha 611 did not decode Dolby HD, when it decoded Dolby 5.1 the was very little difference in volume between that and PCM and DTS
The 765 setting is between 5 and 10db lower than my 611. Does anyone else have this issue?
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post #460 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randello54 View Post

Does anyone else have this issue?

As I said, it's normal and I've noticed the same thing many times. It varies from disk to disk. Also, it's best to post your questions in only one thread, otherwise someone else is going to waste their time giving an answer that was already given here.
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post #461 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 09:47 AM
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kriktsemaj99,
Thank you for your input, but I understand that sound varies a lot from disc to disc but when I play these discs through the 735, there is a LOT of difference compared to ny older 611. That's what I was complaining about.
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post #462 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 09:52 AM
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You have given no reason for me to suspect something is wrong.

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post #463 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randello54 View Post

kriktsemaj99,
Thank you for your input, but I understand that sound varies a lot from disc to disc but when I play these discs through the 735, there is a LOT of difference compared to ny older 611. That's what I was complaining about.

I don't think you'll get anyone here to say this is an "issue". It is what it is. Here, with the 665, bitstreamed HD codecs run roughly 3-5 db louder than PCM being sent by the same player on the same disc. As far as comparing your 765 to an older model, (V661?), the volume settings will compare loosely but a lot depends on setup, YPAO settings, etc. Check your speaker setting in manual setup and see if YPAO has set them all below "0". One reason this might happen is if your sub is set too high or if front speakers are much closer than the rest. You can raise the levels in manual setup, but be sure to raise them all the same amount. Also be aware that you do have the option to adjust each input's level on the "option" screen.
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post #464 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 06:37 PM
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Hi all,
I have an RXV-765 and I'm seeing noticeable reduction in clarity when passing through HDMI. My HDMI sources are PS3 and comcast HDMI and I notice this in both. I compared side by side with and onkyo 607 in the same setup (same source, wires, display etc) and did not notice this degradation. I just concerned if it an issue with my unit. I also tried the latest firmware update from yamaha and did not help.
I have the HDMI output setting to "through". My understanding is that there should not be such attenuation with digital format.
Have any of the RX-*65 owners encountered this.

Thanks in advance.
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post #465 of 1951 Old 06-24-2009, 10:41 PM
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What's the problem? Video or audio?

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post #466 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 04:59 AM
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Just purchased the Yamaha RX-V665. Set up went well in some areas and in some I'm lost. Bear in mind that up until yesterday for many, many years I'd been using an 'old fashioned' receiver with manual bass and treble controls, connected to a DBX, equalizer, and four Bose 901 speakers.

The HDMI connections for my cable box, HD TV, and Blue Ray worked great for both video and audio. The audio connections for my CD player and computer also worked great.

Now my dummy dilemas (I've considered myself semi-literate enough over the years to be able to read a product's manual and set it up correctly, but this Yamaha manual has me lost):

I can get the front Bose 901's to work fine. I cannot get the rear 901's to work at all, regardless of where I connect them to the receiver, i.e., center, rear surround, etc. Am I just missing something basic in the set up menu or are these two rear Bose speakers out of business?

Speaking of maual bass and treble controls, how do I adjust them with this receiver? Are there also equalizer settings I can adjust as well? As I said, I do feel lost here so if I receive (no pun intended) a reply I'd be most grateful!

Sincerely,

Bob
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post #467 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 07:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK6583 View Post

Just purchased the Yamaha RX-V665. Set up went well in some areas and in some I'm lost. Bear in mind that up until yesterday for many, many years I'd been using an 'old fashioned' receiver with manual bass and treble controls, connected to a DBX, equalizer, and four Bose 901 speakers.

The HDMI connections for my cable box, HD TV, and Blue Ray worked great for both video and audio. The audio connections for my CD player and computer also worked great.

Now my dummy dilemas (I've considered myself semi-literate enough over the years to be able to read a product's manual and set it up correctly, but this Yamaha manual has me lost):

I can get the front Bose 901's to work fine. I cannot get the rear 901's to work at all, regardless of where I connect them to the receiver, i.e., center, rear surround, etc. Am I just missing something basic in the set up menu or are these two rear Bose speakers out of business?

Speaking of maual bass and treble controls, how do I adjust them with this receiver? Are there also equalizer settings I can adjust as well? As I said, I do feel lost here so if I receive (no pun intended) a reply I'd be most grateful!

Sincerely,

Bob

You must be using this as a preamp right !!! The 665 doesn't have the balls to push 901s and how would you use the 901's equalizer which must be used for tonal balance ! I should tell you to check the speakers with the grills removed , some of them must of roited out , its been over twenty years buddy , unless you live at the Smithsonian in climate controlled room. Only trying to help.

OMG , I just seen the BOSE web site and they are selling NEW 901s , I thought they died many many years ago , But than I didn't see the body !! The blast from the past lives !! They are nice speakers but they need a 200 watt per channel amp to sound the way music was meant to be heard. The active 901's equalizer makes this speaker SYSTEM very demanding , NO light weight amp will cut it here !
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post #468 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 09:16 AM
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Bob -- have you gone into the "Setup" menu and told the receiver how many speakers you have connected?

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post #469 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 09:35 AM
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Well to my tonal challenged ears those Bose speakers have sounded good to my ears right up until the present. I certainly never needed a 200 watts per channel amp (I've been using a downscale 8 year Onkyo receiver) to drive them (maybe I never needed to crank them up as loud as they needed to be to generate that 'sound' you referred to). But I fear you've confirmed what I thought - in joining the 21st century with this new receiver it appears I've put those Bose speakers out of business. Not that I intend to shell out the $ for new ones but would the new ones even work with this current generation of receivers?
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post #470 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 09:39 AM
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Ahhhh - what 'set up' menu? I guess that shows how behind the times I am. So speaker settings, treble and bass, and freq and dynamic range are 'imbedded' in the receiver itself (no front panel buttons to do all of that?)? I just have to access it to modify, change, or even tell it to recognize speakers that are attached to it?
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post #471 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 09:43 AM
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yessir, welcome to 2009

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post #472 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK6583 View Post

Ahhhh - what 'set up' menu? I guess that shows how behind the times I am. So speaker settings, treble and bass, and freq and dynamic range are 'imbedded' in the receiver itself (no front panel buttons to do all of that?)? I just have to access it to modify, change, or even tell it to recognize speakers that are attached to it?

I suppose this would be a good place to insert: RTFM. then run YPAO.

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Well to my tonal challenged ears those Bose speakers have sounded good to my ears right up until the present. I certainly never needed a 200 watts per channel amp (I've been using a downscale 8 year Onkyo receiver) to drive them (maybe I never needed to crank them up as loud as they needed to be to generate that 'sound' you referred to). But I fear you've confirmed what I thought - in joining the 21st century with this new receiver it appears I've put those Bose speakers out of business. Not that I intend to shell out the $ for new ones but would the new ones even work with this current generation of receivers?

The 665 is capable of driving most any speakers within the limits of amp clipping. You're certainly not going to get much more power in this price range. Adding an external amp is always an option, and the 665 is about the only thing in this price range with analog outs.
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post #473 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK6583 View Post

Ahhhh - what 'set up' menu? I guess that shows how behind the times I am. So speaker settings, treble and bass, and freq and dynamic range are 'imbedded' in the receiver itself (no front panel buttons to do all of that?)? I just have to access it to modify, change, or even tell it to recognize speakers that are attached to it?

Now for the biggy , were do you hook up the 901's active equalizer . Let me save you some time , you can't , there is no tape moniter loop or pre out WITH amp in.. But all is not lost my friend , one of the good things about the 665 is that it does have pre outs , thus if you use separate power amps , you can use the 901's active equalizer. Since the 665 amps don't even make good paper weigths . Those old onkyos should work just fine !! I'm not joking about those amps . Past bench tests have shown yamaha amps to be one of the weakest of all AVR , My guess is that the 665 with 5 channels driven to be about 25 watts !! The 663 only got 40 watts !! The Bose 901s ain't going to sing with 25 watts , my headphones need more than that !! Please tell me if you think my esmate of the 665 RMS 20 to 20k .1 THD ( this should be lower .o8,o7) @ 8 ohms power with 5 channels driven output far from being wrong .
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post #474 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 01:01 PM
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Hi all,
I have an RXV-765 and I'm seeing noticeable reduction in clarity when passing through HDMI. My HDMI sources are PS3 and comcast HDMI and I notice this in both. I compared side by side with and onkyo 607 in the same setup (same source, wires, display etc) and did not notice this degradation. I just concerned if it an issue with my unit. I also tried the latest firmware update from yamaha and did not help.
I have the HDMI output setting to "through". My understanding is that there should not be such attenuation with digital format.
Have any of the RX-*65 owners encountered this.

Thanks in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

What's the problem? Video or audio?

The problem is with Video. the video seems to loose a little bit of sharpness and contrast. It is kind of like the loss I've seen in analog Video signals when passing though AV recievers. When I hookup up the video to the TV directly I see a noticeable improvement, especially in cable HD channels .The only reason I'm concerned is that the Onkyo 607 that I had (compared side byside) did not have this issue. the only variable was the reciever in this comparison. Everything else was exactly the same. Both were set to pass the signals through.

Thanks.
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post #475 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paggy View Post

The problem is with Video. the video seems to loose a little bit of sharpness and contrast. It is kind of like the loss in analog Video signals when passing though AV recievers. When I hookup up the video to the TV directly I see a noticeable improvement, especially in cable HD channels .The only reason I'm concerned is the the Onkyo 607 that I had (compared side byside) did not have this issue. the only variable was the reciever in this comparison. Everything else was exactly the same. Both were set to pass the signals through.

Thanks.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe the issue is with the use of different inputs on the monitor. Most current monitors have completely separate calibration for each input. If everything is set for "through" on the 665, it's not touching the digital video. If you are now sending HDMI from components that were previously connected direct to different inputs on the monitor, this is probably why it looks different.

One of the potential issues with using an AVR as a HDMI switch is that all inputs go to the same input on the monitor, so separate calibration is no longer possible in the monitor.

In any case, I see no such issue on the 665 here, and I am pretty picky about calibration of video.
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post #476 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 02:06 PM
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I suppose this would be a good place to insert: RTFM. then run YPAO.

Guilty as charged. My gut reaction when first perusing the manual was WTF. I will go back and take my time and read it through this time.
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post #477 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 02:14 PM
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Now for the biggy , were do you hook up the 901's active equalizer . Let me save you some time , you can't , there is no tape moniter loop or pre out WITH amp in.. But all is not lost my friend , one of the good things about the 665 is that it does have pre outs , thus if you use separate power amps , you can use the 901's active equalizer. Since the 665 amps don't even make good paper weigths . Those old onkyos should work just fine !! I'm not joking about those amps . Past bench tests have shown yamaha amps to be one of the weakest of all AVR , My guess is that the 665 with 5 channels driven to be about 25 watts !! The 663 only got 40 watts !! The Bose 901s ain't going to sing with 25 watts , my headphones need more than that !! Please tell me if you think my esmate of the 665 RMS 20 to 20k .1 THD ( this should be lower .o8,o7) @ 8 ohms power with 5 channels driven output far from being wrong .

Well this is what I mean about perhaps being tonally challenged. I ran all four 901's off that old little Onkyo without that special equalizer. Had them cranked up pretty good and they sounded great to my ears. Had a friend visit on more than one occasion who also liked loud music and who had a better set of ears than me and he seemed to like the music they were putting out too. Fact also is that the front pair work fine again without the equalizer - and I've cranked them up pretty loud with the 665 - of course I do have a relatively small living room. So not sure what's going on here. They are 24 years old - maybe my 55 year old ears just don't notice it. Reading some of the posts on this forum I get the impression that there are some people out there who when listening to a symphony play on a really good audio system can tell when a violin isn't tuned right!
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post #478 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BK6583 View Post

Guilty as charged. My gut reaction when first perusing the manual was WTF. I will go back and take my time and read it through this time.

Forums are no substitute for understanding the contents of the manual, such as it is.

Running YPAO will not only EQ and set up the speakers, it will alert you to issues in their connections. Most common error is connecting the surround speakers to the BACK surround channels, and YAPO will tell you if you have done this.

Pay particular attention to the instructions for running YPAO. Critical variables are the placement of the mic, securing the mic to a tripod, removing any obstructions from between the mic and speakers, and removing your person from between the speakers and mike, preferably from the room. All room treatments should be in place, curtains closed, etc, so that the room is in the condition it will be in for critical listening. The location of the mic will be your "sweet spot", where all the sound effects converge.

Checking the manual settings after running YPAO is the final step, to verify that distances are correct and settings for "large" and "small" are as you wish, as well as a subwoofer crossover point if you use one. Also check the level settings to see that nothing is way out of expected results.
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post #479 of 1951 Old 06-25-2009, 06:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BK6583 View Post

Well this is what I mean about perhaps being tonally challenged. I ran all four 901's off that old little Onkyo without that special equalizer. Had them cranked up pretty good and they sounded great to my ears. Had a friend visit on more than one occasion who also liked loud music and who had a better set of ears than me and he seemed to like the music they were putting out too. Fact also is that the front pair work fine again without the equeraliz - and I've cranked them up pretty loud with the 665 - of course I do have a relatively small living room. So not sure what's going on here. They are 24 years old - maybe my 55 year old ears just don't notice it. Reading some of the posts on this forum I get the impression that there are some people out there who when listening to a symphony play on a really good audio system can tell when a violin isn't tuned right!

If you like the sound of the 901s without the equalizer you will be blown away with it in the loop..but I said enough , its time for you to get your hands dirty..
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post #480 of 1951 Old 06-26-2009, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Snake001 View Post

After working on this problem I had, I finally got the audio part working.

Snake,
I too am hooking up my HTPC to the 665. What was your solution to using HDMI out for video and Optical out for audio?

Thanks for your help!

John
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