**Offical** Yamaha RX-V665 AV Receiver thread - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 1951 Old 09-06-2011, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HunterZ0 View Post

I'm re-visiting the decision of whether to have my TV or my RX-V665 upscale my Wii's 480p component video to my TV's 1080p display.

People have said that it's better to set the RX-V665 to "Through" and let the TV upscale it, but won't this result in a lower-quality upscale if the RX-V665 video ADC is able to digitally sample the analog 480p at a higher resolution? I wouldn't expect that 480p analog to 480p digital (the "Through" setting) would be a true 1:1 conversion, so it seems it would be better to let the RX-V665 do the upscaling if it's able to digitally sample the image at a higher digital resolution than it would otherwise pass to the TV in "Through" mode.

I've done some informal image quality comparisons using my Wii, which is connected via analog 480p component video to my RX-V665 - which is in turn connected via HDMI to my Samsung 1080p HDTV.

The 665 is extremely mediocre at converting analog video to digital. The scaling part is only half the story. If you're smart, you'll pass analog video direct to the TV and let it handle everything. The TV will need to be properly calibrated on it's analog input.
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post #1802 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The 665 is extremely mediocre at converting analog video to digital. The scaling part is only half the story. If you're smart, you'll pass analog video direct to the TV and let it handle everything. The TV will need to be properly calibrated on it's analog input.

Hence the last paragraph of my post. As I said, though, I'm not too keen on having to switch TV inputs when every other device I have is switched by the RX-V665.
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post #1803 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by HunterZ0 View Post
Hence the last paragraph of my post. As I said, though, I'm not too keen on having to switch TV inputs when every other device I have is switched by the RX-V665.
Most people will agree that the switching function is convenient.

However in an AVR from the v665's price range, quality video processing is not available. You need to spend a LOT more to get that. You can decide for yourself by trying it both ways, keeping in mind that your TV will have completely different calibration on the 2 type inputs.

Again, scaling is the least of the tasks involved. Conversion to digital is #1, de-interlacing is #2 and scaling is #3.
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post #1804 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 12:08 PM
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I for one have pretty much given up on depending on the AVR for processing video signals. We have a Denon and two Yammies and after many months of frequent frustration I've reverted to just plugging everything into the TV's HDMI inputs and running the audio over coaxial or optical... except of course in the case of Blu-ray, in which case we're pretty much forced to run everything thru the AVR.

During the period when I was trying to route everything thru the AVR we kept having HDMI handshake issues... drop outs, strobing screen, or just a "no signal" message when in fact I knew darn well that there was indeed a signal. Since I've bypassed HDMI passthru, all those issues have disappeared... and turning off CEC in all devices was one of the first steps I tried.

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post #1805 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 02:18 PM
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AVR makers long ago realized that video processing was the golden calf, and that they could use it to inflate unit prices. As it is, you gotta spend well over $1K to get quality processing that equals what a basic TV offers. HDMI switching is about all you should expect from a mid-level AVR. As analog video sources become more rare, it's not much of a concern.
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post #1806 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterZ0 View Post

I'm re-visiting the decision of whether to have my TV or my RX-V665 upscale my Wii's 480p component video to my TV's 1080p display.

People have said that it's better to set the RX-V665 to "Through" and let the TV upscale it, but won't this result in a lower-quality upscale if the RX-V665 video ADC is able to digitally sample the analog 480p at a higher resolution? I wouldn't expect that 480p analog to 480p digital (the "Through" setting) would be a true 1:1 conversion, so it seems it would be better to let the RX-V665 do the upscaling if it's able to digitally sample the image at a higher digital resolution than it would otherwise pass to the TV in "Through" mode.

I've done some informal image quality comparisons using my Wii, which is connected via analog 480p component video to my RX-V665 - which is in turn connected via HDMI to my Samsung 1080p HDTV. I'm not a total audiovideophile, so I honestly can't tell much difference other than that there are small black bars around all 4 edges of the picture when the RX-V665 does the upscaling. I'm not sure if this is because it is doing some kind of integer-multiple scaling, or if it's expecting the TV to discard the borders as overscan area (which is silly since it's a digital HDMI 1080p signal at that point). Since I can't detect any other real image quality differences, I'm inclined to go ahead and let the TV do the upscaling so that the picture will fill the whole screen.

The optimal image quality solution, of course, is probably to hook the Wii video directly to my TV (bypassing the RX-V665's video ADC altogether), but it's just too convenient to use the RX-V665 to do input switching for all of my A/V sources.

I use the 565 to upscale my Wii without issue. That was the reason I chose a "switching" AVR...to do just that.

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post #1807 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Twiztted View Post

Hi all I seem to be having an issue with low bass while playing blu ray movies on any surround setting except 7 channel enhanced. I have run YAPO several times and changed manual adjustments to my liking but no matter what I try the bass seems to go away considerably when in surround sound.
I have tried both config settings 1) Sub only and 2)Front and Sub.
When playing music I have to set it at Front and Sub to get any kind of bass. The frequency is set at 160hz. This is what YAPO set it at.....I would figure that would provide plenty of low and mid base. I get tired of missing the true surround by running it on 7 enhanced but I get no bass otherwise.
What am I doing wrong? Please help.

Hello all. This is my first post here on AVSforum. I have been a reader for quite some time. I use this site for research and help with my own home theater setup.

I decided to sign up because I noticed this user having trouble with their Yamaha receiver. I am no expert or professional, but I had similar issues with my setup.

I have the Klipsch Quintet SL with the Sub-12 subwoofer and had been frustrated with the sound for quite some time until I had read a review on Bestbuy.com.

The reviewer listed steps to take to help make the surround sound sound better (it's not perfect, but does a good job fixing the issue). I am not going to post everything he did on here, but I will post info regarding the sub.

I too was not getting punchy bass at all out of the sub. The best example is when the characters in the movie are outside of a club/bar and you can hear the muffled sound of the music inside the club/bar (which shouldn't be too punchy, but didn't even make a sound out of my sub) and then the camera follows them into the club/bar and you can REALLY hear the music except.....no punch at all from the sub....like it's broken.

So the reviewer online posted VERY useful information. On my sub, I moved the knob to "120hz" and then set the crossover on the Yamaha to "200hz". It was only then that I CLEARLY noticed the punch. After that I did some minor tweaking to the rest of the sound (Klipsch's are notorious for bright highs) and got it sounding decent.

Earlier today I was reading about this and one of the stickies mentioned that Yamaha amps have been known to be -10db in the LFE channel when it should be +10db. Further in the sticky I read that this causes the amp to not be powerful enough to push a sub.

Regardless, try the 200hz/120hz setting out and see if it brings punch to your sub. I figured I would post what worked for me.

On another note, someone posted that everyone watches movies on their yamaha amp at -20db......that's almost max. Highest mine goes is -16db!!! What's all of that lower range for? So I have to set my amp at the limit just to actually clearly hear voices in the movie? cmon yamaha!!

Highest I go is -35db, MAYBE -30db. I WILL be going for a more powerful amp next. (hopefully very soon!!) I am not too happy with my Yamaha RXV663 right now due to this issue.
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post #1808 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PsiPr0 View Post

...On another note, someone posted that everyone watches movies on their yamaha amp at -20db......that's almost max. Highest mine goes is -16db!!! What's all of that lower range for? So I have to set my amp at the limit just to actually clearly hear voices in the movie? cmon yamaha!!

-16 is not the max, +16 is the max. That's 32dB difference, which is huge because it's a logarithmic scale. Don't worry about the number on the scale, because if you buy a more powerful amp you'll still be using the same number to get the same loudness (that's one of the main goals of the setup process).
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post #1809 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 06:19 PM
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exactly...the volume scale on and AVR is like starting out with say 1/10 of a cent...the more you double it (at the beginning) doesn't have a great effect...but at the other end, after you double it lots of times, it goes up quite a bit! I watch at about -16 give or take too.... which is actually 16 db LESS than reference level... search "what is reference level" for some interesting reading.

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post #1810 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

.... That's 32dB difference, which is huge because it's a logarithmic scale. .

to be exact...it is huge because of where the 32 db difference is ... if it were at around 10 db, it wouldnt have near the effect as it would at 120 db... because of the reason you mentioned.

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post #1811 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 06:41 PM
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Right, I forgot about the setting on the amp that let's you set a higher max volume. Regardless, my ears almost bleed at -30db. Can't imagine I would have eardrums left at -20db much less -16!....or +1 for that matter! Lol
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post #1812 of 1951 Old 09-07-2011, 06:43 PM
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Oh, and I turned the treble all of the way down. Klipsch speakers are already super high treble without help from the amp.
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post #1813 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PsiPr0 View Post
I am not too happy with my Yamaha RXV663 right now due to this issue.
Hey dude. I have the 863 but not for watching movies (it's for stereo music). I have a rxv565 for movie watching. Have you run YPAO on your 663?? Your max volume should be around +16 as previously stated unless you have set the max volume to something different (to keep kids or partying adults from cranking it too high and blowing speakers)... What do you have your gain set at on the amp? There are so many variables that can be to blame...I doubt it is the receiver's fault

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post #1814 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post
Hey dude. I have the 863 but not for watching movies (it's for stereo music). I have a rxv565 for movie watching. Have you run YPAO on your 663?? Your max volume should be around +16 as previously stated unless you have set the max volume to something different (to keep kids or partying adults from cranking it too high and blowing speakers)... What do you have your gain set at on the amp? There are so many variables that can be to blame...I doubt it is the receiver's fault
Yeah, I have the max volume set to +15db, but the yammy's eq or something is messed up. Voices come out at about -45db and "the action sequence" comes out at +5db (that's what it feels like anyway) when I have the volume set to -30db.

I have run YPAO and have disabled some of the settings that it automatically enables like 60hz for the sub and DRC. As I mentioned earlier, I have Treble turned all of the way down and bass up to +2 on the "tone control" setting. I changed the LFE setting to just "subwoofer" instead of "front and sub". MOST of the movies I watch are DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD so I don't bother with the Dolby Digital 5.1 or regular DTS settings unless I am playing PS3/Xbox 360.

In the past year I keep finding out about new ways to tweak the system. Kinda feels good knowing that you learn more as time goes on. I do like that.
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post #1815 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 06:43 AM
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I can tell you that movies are meant to have a wide dynamic range (from voices to action scenes). however, I slide the center channel trim up quite a bit since I have kids in bed most of the time during movies, so I don't want to have to crank to volume up just to hear voices a little louder, then have the walls come down during loud passages!! So are you saying you can't turn the volume knob past -16 ??? Also, what mode are you running YPAO? Does the 663 have "Flat, Natural, and one other" EQ modes?

HT: Yamaha RX-V565 | 3 X Energy Take FPS, 2 X VS Surround, 2 X Take LCR | DIY Subs: SDX12 APR15 & TRIO12 Dual APR 12's | 47" LCD

Music: Yamaha RX-V863 | 2 X Energy RC-70 | MA RXw12 Sub

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post #1816 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post
I can tell you that movies are meant to have a wide dynamic range (from voices to action scenes). however, I slide the center channel trim up quite a bit since I have kids in bed most of the time during movies, so I don't want to have to crank to volume up just to hear voices a little louder, then have the walls come down during loud passages!! So are you saying you can't turn the volume knob past -16 ??? Also, what mode are you running YPAO? Does the 663 have "Flat, Natural, and one other" EQ modes?
Actually, I realized that I typoed the volume setting in my post last night. I am able to raise the volume to +15db max. I think I disabled the EQ settings so that no EQ is being applied to the sound at all. I thought YPAO was just using the included mic to automatically set the sound settings for my home theater and then I could tweak the settings later. What else does YPAO do AFTER setting up the speakers?
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post #1817 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 07:39 AM
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YPAO and the other auto EQs will apply appropriate EQ settings based on room response/reflections, and speaker sounds, etc, etc...as well as levels and distances. I would run YPAO and run some sound (music or movie) tests afterward, and maybe try different EQ modes (flat, natural, front....)

HT: Yamaha RX-V565 | 3 X Energy Take FPS, 2 X VS Surround, 2 X Take LCR | DIY Subs: SDX12 APR15 & TRIO12 Dual APR 12's | 47" LCD

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post #1818 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post
YPAO and the other auto EQs will apply appropriate EQ settings based on room response/reflections, and speaker sounds, etc, etc...as well as levels and distances. I would run YPAO and run some sound (music or movie) tests afterward, and maybe try different EQ modes (flat, natural, front....)
But what about punch from the sub? YPAO defaults to a dead 60hz for my sub. So I am just going to have to live without any punch from the sub during movies?
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post #1819 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PsiPr0 View Post

But what about punch from the sub? YPAO defaults to a dead 60hz for my sub. So I am just going to have to live without any punch from the sub during movies?

It might be time to read the manual from cover to cover. You can adjust the crossover and a variety of other parameters after running YPAO. But you won't get any PEQ without running YPAO.
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post #1820 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It might be time to read the manual from cover to cover. You can adjust the crossover and a variety of other parameters after running YPAO. But you won't get any PEQ without running YPAO.

So I have to really just enable the EQ then and change the setting to normal, flat, etc until I have the sound I want? I already ran YPAO setup and adjusted my settings AFTER having run YPAO when I JUST bought the amp. My current settings are after disabling things like DRC, EQ, and increasing the hz of the sub.

So what I think you are trying to say is "re-enable the eq" instead of going through the entire YPAO process just to have it automatically re-enable the EQ, enable DRC, and enable 60hz lfe.....so that I can go back and disable them all again.

Am I correct?
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post #1821 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 10:33 AM
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I would re-run it since it doesn't "remember" previous PEQ settings after you select a new one i think... for example, if you run YPAO on FLAT, and then select NATURAL, nothing will change until you re-run YPAO on NATURAL. I would start by re-running it on FLAT, then make your adjustments to XO and such, and then do some listening tests with different sound modes.

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post #1822 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 10:35 AM
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I typically run YAPO (or Audyssey) several times a year. I figure the speaker dynamics change a bit over time, as the cone surrounds soften up and such. Then listen to a few sources and adjust the volume of each channel appropriately until everything sounds right to me. I don't think I ever return to the EQ defaults. Just my 2 cents.

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post #1823 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Most people will agree that the switching function is convenient.

However in an AVR from the v665's price range, quality video processing is not available. You need to spend a LOT more to get that. You can decide for yourself by trying it both ways, keeping in mind that your TV will have completely different calibration on the 2 type inputs.

Yeah, I'm tempted to try a direct connection when I have the time and opportunity.

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Again, scaling is the least of the tasks involved. Conversion to digital is #1, de-interlacing is #2 and scaling is #3.

Fortunately deinterlacing is not an issue since it's 480p component video.

As for conversion, it's possible that my Samsung HDTV might not do much of a better job at analog-to-digital conversion since it's not an expensive one either.

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Originally Posted by RobLee View Post

I for one have pretty much given up on depending on the AVR for processing video signals. We have a Denon and two Yammies and after many months of frequent frustration I've reverted to just plugging everything into the TV's HDMI inputs and running the audio over coaxial or optical... except of course in the case of Blu-ray, in which case we're pretty much forced to run everything thru the AVR.

During the period when I was trying to route everything thru the AVR we kept having HDMI handshake issues... drop outs, strobing screen, or just a "no signal" message when in fact I knew darn well that there was indeed a signal. Since I've bypassed HDMI passthru, all those issues have disappeared... and turning off CEC in all devices was one of the first steps I tried.

Ouch. I haven't had nearly that much trouble. Sometimes (rarely) when I switch inputs I don't get video, but ensuring that the source device is awake and toggling inputs a second time usually fixes it. I also got some flickering on the HTPC early on, but forcing the video driver to report that it was supplying full-screen video for HDCP purposes seems to have fixed that as well.

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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

AVR makers long ago realized that video processing was the golden calf, and that they could use it to inflate unit prices. As it is, you gotta spend well over $1K to get quality processing that equals what a basic TV offers. HDMI switching is about all you should expect from a mid-level AVR. As analog video sources become more rare, it's not much of a concern.

Not that I'm looking to upgrade, but is there anyone out there that is doing a good job of ranking the analog-to-digital conversion quality of various AVRs?

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Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

I use the 565 to upscale my Wii without issue. That was the reason I chose a "switching" AVR...to do just that.

I bought my 665 so that I could have a 5.1 audio setup for the TV, but with all but the Wii being on HDMI we now depend on the 665 for switching as much as for surround sound!

I wonder if those aftermarket Wii HDMI cables with ADCs built-in are better than the RX-V665's conversion?
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post #1824 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 10:54 AM
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Not that I'm looking to upgrade, but is there anyone out there that is doing a good job of ranking the analog-to-digital conversion quality of various AVRs?

Not really

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I wonder if those aftermarket Wii HDMI cables with ADCs built-in are better than the RX-V665's conversion?

Likely will be pretty similar, couldn't be much worse to put it bluntly.
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post #1825 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 12:44 PM
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Ouch. I haven't had nearly that much trouble. Sometimes (rarely) when I switch inputs I don't get video, but ensuring that the source device is awake and toggling inputs a second time usually fixes it. I also got some flickering on the HTPC early on, but forcing the video driver to report that it was supplying full-screen video for HDCP purposes seems to have fixed that as well.

Playstation 3 is NOTORIOUS for HDCP issues. I can play Xbox 360 ALL WEEK and not experience a single issue with handshake, but, like clockwork, ANY Playstation 3 will experience handshake issues within 1-2 WEEKS of repeated use. I have tested this with 3 PS3's on 4 different AVRs and have confirmed this. I am not alone with this finding. YouTube has several videos of this working with Sony AVRs as well. It's a simple fix though...reboot the console and it's working again. Just annoying mid game.
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post #1826 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 01:05 PM
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@ PsiPro: A friend just called me last night who moved out of town, who just got a PS3 and after a couple weeks, gets no video (something about bad input). he has a 467. Any advice? Thanks.

HT: Yamaha RX-V565 | 3 X Energy Take FPS, 2 X VS Surround, 2 X Take LCR | DIY Subs: SDX12 APR15 & TRIO12 Dual APR 12's | 47" LCD

Music: Yamaha RX-V863 | 2 X Energy RC-70 | MA RXw12 Sub

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post #1827 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 02:16 PM
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@ PsiPro: A friend just called me last night who moved out of town, who just got a PS3 and after a couple weeks, gets no video (something about bad input). he has a 467. Any advice? Thanks.

HDMI? Regardless, try turning off the PS3 and press and hold the power button until you hear several beeps. The PS3 should at least output video. Then you can choose what your video settings are from the menus. It will look really grainy at first, but once you choose 720p or 1080p things will clear up. Hope this helps.
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post #1828 of 1951 Old 09-08-2011, 07:07 PM
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That's why I gave up on using HDMI passthru and just wired (almost) everything straight to the TV inputs. Eventhough there were workarounds, like switching back and forth several times, or powering down then back up, it was just too much of a hassle. I found that the workarounds were controlling how we used the system, and I thought I was supposed to be in control.

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post #1829 of 1951 Old 09-09-2011, 08:22 AM
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That's why I gave up on using HDMI passthru and just wired (almost) everything straight to the TV inputs. Eventhough there were workarounds, like switching back and forth several times, or powering down then back up, it was just too much of a hassle. I found that the workarounds were controlling how we used the system, and I thought I was supposed to be in control.

Even when plugged directly to a Sony TV, the HDCP handshake issues occur within 1-2 weeks on PS3s too. I looked it up online and youtube is LOADED with videos of PS3 owners getting this exact issue. Avr or not. Regardless, I play 360 more than PS3 so I don't really encounter this issue at all.
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post #1830 of 1951 Old 09-09-2011, 09:56 AM
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so you have to do a hard reset for it to work again for another 1-2 weeks ??

HT: Yamaha RX-V565 | 3 X Energy Take FPS, 2 X VS Surround, 2 X Take LCR | DIY Subs: SDX12 APR15 & TRIO12 Dual APR 12's | 47" LCD

Music: Yamaha RX-V863 | 2 X Energy RC-70 | MA RXw12 Sub

Bathroom: 2 X Energy Take LCR

Car: Sony Xplod HU, Xplod 6X9s, Kenwood 4"s, Alpine 12" Type-S, Rockford Amp,...

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