Any word from Denon about the 2009 - 2010 AVRs? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by davekro View Post

... and there's that.

Thanks for your thoughts. I need to read up on IIz, I have not heard whether it is much of an advantage to a 7.1 system or not.

Yup I would agree %100 in your situation. Based again on my specific situation, to ditch the 3808 and acquire a 4310 will probably cost me approximately $200 I am excited to try PLIIz and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

I will submit that this is getting a little ridiculous as far as how many speakers you have to position. Also you may have caught in that S&V article that DTS is working on their own flavor called "Neo X" which is similar but actually adds another height channel in the back, as well as the two height channels in the front for a grand total of 10 speakers plus a subwoofer.

Oh well, maybe i should just wait for the AVR 4312ci............

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post #122 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 12:19 PM
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if it's anything like the z11 it will be 11.3 not 11.1 or 10.1, with the effects speakers governed at 50watts per channel according to the z11 specs, the z11 is a 7.1 receiver with spatial surround modes in 9.1-11.3, not sure on the subs though...

if they follow the z11's floor plan the 4 extra speakers will set to a max wattage of 50 watts per those 4 channels...

i believe someone was planning to knockout 21.5 or 21.7 amp..

in the amps power ratio nobody has yet to challenge sony's 9.1 200 watt per channel amp so far..

though to use 11.3 speakers in your home you would have to have a room close to size of medium to large cineplex room these 9.1-11.3 systems aren't designed be in a standard size converted bedroom
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post #123 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 01:12 PM
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Does anyone know whether any of the Denon 2010 models will feature the extensive networking capability like the Yamaha v3900?
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post #124 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 02:47 PM
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I am thinking Denon has some serious quality control problems. Witness this poor sap who bought a 4308 and posted to Amazon a couple of days ago.

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-4308...rBy=addOneStar

The proper response should have been "We are sorry. A new receiver is on its way to you."

This is just an embarrassment for the company.
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post #125 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 03:02 PM
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I would not believe everything you read, especially on the internet.

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post #126 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimone View Post

I am thinking Denon has some serious quality control problems. Witness this poor sap who bought a 4308 and posted to Amazon a couple of days ago.

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-4308...rBy=addOneStar

The proper response would have been "We are sorry. A new receiver is on its way to you."

This is just an embarrassment for the company.

This is terrible and will make me rethink upgrading with a new 2010 model. How can a company behave this way? Why not ship the guy a replacement? I would be going ballistic and calling the senior execs of the company. This is totally not acceptable.
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post #127 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 03:32 PM
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....and most likely untrue.

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post #128 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

The ABT2010 is the system-on-a-chip (SoC) implementation of ABT's current video processing technology (VP50, VP50 Pro). It is the same chipset that powers the EDGE video processor that has been, and is currently still, under active development (see the relevant thread in the VP forum). The issue is really how well the featureset can be implemented, and I expect that Denon is getting extra help from ABT. If Denon launches with something approximating the same featureset as in the EDGE, then this is a killer VP solution for all but a handful of people. If the featureset is closer to the 1.0 release of EDGE or even cut-down further from that, then many people will want/need an external VP.

Bill

Bill, would you mind explaining this further? What exactly has happened with the EDGE development that makes you fearful that incorporating the ABT2010 into Denon's line of receivers may be a bad idea?
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post #129 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

Bill, would you mind explaining this further? What exactly has happened with the EDGE development that makes you fearful that incorporating the ABT2010 into Denon's line of receivers may be a bad idea?

There has been problems with using a ABT 2010 based receiver (such as Yamaha RX-Z11) that when used with say a another ABT 2010 based product such as a Oppo DV-983H.

Here's a example:

"I have had no luck getting the Z11 to recognize any HDMI video signals from my Oppo 983 except 480p.

Upgrading to the latest Oppo firmware has no effect.

Using the Z11's "Signal Info", 480p is recognized as such, and the Z11 will up-convert it to 1080p. Both 720p and 1080i are unrecognized (type = "???") and the Z11 will not process them further, they are simply passed through.
1080p doesn't get through at all (blank screen)."

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post #130 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 07:26 PM
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Wow! How would a company like Yamaha let that happen on their flagship receiver?

Is there a relevant thread about the problems going on in the VP sub-forum?

I know there is an official EDGE thread, but I don't want to weed through it trying to learn about all of the issues.
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post #131 of 1065 Old 04-18-2009, 08:39 PM
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I believe the Yamaha Z11 has an ABT 1018 chip (scaler only) paired with an iChips de-interlacer. ABT 2010 is a much better solution. Of course, the way the video processor is integrated into the AVR's hardware and software is more important than the theoretical limits of the chip itself.
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post #132 of 1065 Old 04-19-2009, 07:26 AM
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Just to clarify, I know the Z7 and Z11 are two seperate chipsets but both anchor bay. Which one is which and which one is in the new Denon's?

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post #133 of 1065 Old 04-19-2009, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robusto400 View Post

Does anyone know whether any of the Denon 2010 models will feature the extensive networking capability like the Yamaha v3900?

Is the 3808 on par with the Yamaha 3900 as to networking? From what I have read the 3900 is quite a "networking" receiver but maybe some of the upper level models from Denon are too but don't really know how much.
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post #134 of 1065 Old 04-20-2009, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWHTS View Post

MSRP's:

2310 - 800
3310 - 1500
4310 - 2000
4810 - 3000

what will the new 4810 do thast the 4308ci wont? How is it different or better?
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post #135 of 1065 Old 04-21-2009, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

what will the new 4810 do thast the 4308ci wont? How is it different or better?

I think it's too early to have an answer on that
Even when we will get the full blown details we won't be able to have a clear understanding, specially on the "better" side
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post #136 of 1065 Old 04-21-2009, 10:06 AM
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you only would have had to make it to post #3 of this thread

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post #137 of 1065 Old 04-21-2009, 02:12 PM
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Need more info on the 1610 and 1910! So far we have 1610 MSRP is $379, anything else?
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post #138 of 1065 Old 04-21-2009, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ezervoud View Post

I think it's too early to have an answer on that
Even when we will get the full blown details we won't be able to have a clear understanding, specially on the "better" side

I still haven't found a need to get a 4308 to replace my 4306 since LPCM from the PS3 has treated me just great. The main feature I might have liked was wifi, but I was able to solve that by wiring my home theater area. Even if I hadn't a wireless bridge would have probably been in my future.

The GUI is really only useful during setup. Since going to Blu-ray I noticed I'm not upgrading my players every couple years like I had with DVD, though I have been if I hadn't gone with the PS3.

Pro-logic IIz... I'm skeptical. Seems only logical that we're at a preliminary stage and we'll soon have different heights for the surrounds and rears, as well?

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post #139 of 1065 Old 04-21-2009, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by aussiestilgar View Post

Need more info on the 1610 and 1910! So far we have 1610 MSRP is $379, anything else?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/04/16...iver-in-japan/

Nothing yet on the 1910.
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post #140 of 1065 Old 04-22-2009, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

I still haven't found a need to get a 4308 to replace my 4306 since LPCM from the PS3 has treated me just great. The main feature I might have liked was wifi, but I was able to solve that by wiring my home theater area. Even if I hadn't a wireless bridge would have probably been in my future.

The GUI is really only useful during setup. Since going to Blu-ray I noticed I'm not upgrading my players every couple years like I had with DVD, though I have been if I hadn't gone with the PS3.

Pro-logic IIz... I'm skeptical. Seems only logical that we're at a preliminary stage and we'll soon have different heights for the surrounds and rears, as well?

As far as I am concerned, since I am stuck with a 3806, I would be looking for DLNA compliance over Ethernet since I already have structured cabling running over my house. The big plus I would be looking for in my new receiver would be additional power to feed my B&W 803, that's why I'm tending toward the 4810
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post #141 of 1065 Old 04-22-2009, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ezervoud View Post

As far as I am concerned, since I am stuck with a 3806, I would be looking for DLNA compliance over Ethernet since I already have structured cabling running over my house. The big plus I would be looking for in my new receiver would be additional power to feed my B&W 803, that's why I'm tending toward the 4810

I was using Twonky to stream FLAC to first my 4306 and then my PS3 but then I put a 320GB HDD in my PS3 and I stored all the music and video locally. Hypothetically I could still stream some other stuff to the PS3, but this just isn't a feature that's needed in an AVR IMO.

As far as power, I think the guys really serious into that only use an AVR as a pre/pro, as no AVR except maybe the ultra ultra high end have enough mojo in the chassis available to satisfy. Throw in a couple Velodynes or Anthems or something.

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post #142 of 1065 Old 04-22-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

I was using Twonky to stream FLAC to first my 4306 and then my PS3 but then I put a 320GB HDD in my PS3 and I stored all the music and video locally. Hypothetically I could still stream some other stuff to the PS3, but this just isn't a feature that's needed in an AVR IMO.

As far as power, I think the guys really serious into that only use an AVR as a pre/pro, as no AVR except maybe the ultra ultra high end have enough mojo in the chassis available to satisfy. Throw in a couple Velodynes or Anthems or something.

I do have a NAS device running twonky, among others, which I currently stream through a squeezbox.
You are absolutely right on the pre/pro comment but it gets out of my budget. Eventually, I will get there but not this year :-(
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post #143 of 1065 Old 04-23-2009, 09:35 AM
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Here's the link from whathifi.com:

(Too new yet to embed the link)

whathifi.com/News/Denon-announces-UK-tuned-multichannel-receiver-range-from-349

Although the British Pound is worth about $1.45, the prices are interesting.

I believe prior posts have the AVR-1610 at about $379 MSRP and the AVR-2310 at about $849 MSRP. In UK these are GBP 349 and GBP 849 respectively. I did see a post somewhere on this forum that the AVR-1910 would be $550 MSRP, about a $100 less than the AVR-1909. In UK the AVR-1910 MSRP is GBP 479.
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post #144 of 1065 Old 04-23-2009, 02:22 PM
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Whenever the new Denon's are officially announced - will the remotes for the 2010 models work with the 2009 models? I have an AVR-889 and am HOPING that perhaps the lousy two-sided remote could be replaced with a remote from a comparable 2010 model. Yes, I know a universal remote is also an option, but will my other plan work?
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post #145 of 1065 Old 04-23-2009, 02:35 PM
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Denon IR codes have been the same for over 10 years, so yes any Denon AVR remote will work on any other Denon AVR. You could also buy one of the older style remotes (big one-sided jobs). The only difference is the button layout might not be exactly the same.

That being said, if you are going to all the trouble of buying a Denon remote... you can get a Harmony for less than $50 (look for models 670 and 550 on ebay). Which would be a FAR better solution.

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post #146 of 1065 Old 04-23-2009, 03:38 PM
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Thanks batpig, I will definitely look into those. It's been so long since I bought a universal remote that the thought of programming it makes me queasy; then I checked the specs on the 670 and saw that that tedious manual programming is no longer necessary. Any thoughts, opinions or comparisons on the two models you cited?
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post #147 of 1065 Old 04-23-2009, 03:42 PM
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Quote:


Any thoughts, opinions or comparisons on the two models you cited?

one is a rectangle, one is peanut shaped. the rectangular one has 4 buttons on the LCD screen, the peanut shaped one has 6 buttons. pick the one you like better.

those are the only differences that really matter, all Harmony remotes have identical functionality, are programmed with the same software, and only differ in the button layout and number of buttons on and style of the LCD screen. I would personally avoid the lowest-end models (510 and 520) because they are limited in number of buttons and number of devices that can be programmed.

this thread should be useful for sifting through the various models:
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...?keywords=4251

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post #148 of 1065 Old 04-24-2009, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckMule View Post

Thanks batpig, I will definitely look into those. It's been so long since I bought a universal remote that the thought of programming it makes me queasy; then I checked the specs on the 670 and saw that that tedious manual programming is no longer necessary. Any thoughts, opinions or comparisons on the two models you cited?

On Harmony rc's you simply say to its' sw gui that I have a Denon 1910 and that's it!
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post #149 of 1065 Old 04-24-2009, 07:45 PM
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post #150 of 1065 Old 04-24-2009, 11:34 PM
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nice find. first photo of the back panel (2310 UK version):




what I notice:

1. Denon following trend of eliminating excess legacy inputs. Only two component video inputs, two s-video inputs, two composite video.

2. no pre-outs -- now the lowest level Denon with pre-outs will be the $1500 3310CI. Denon is basically ceding the "cheap AVR as pre/pro" market to Yamaha, Pio... anyone wishing to have the Denon package w/ the full Audyssey suite as an affordable pre/pro should be prepared to pounce on closeout deals on 2809/989 and 3808...

3. looks like six discrete video input names, one more than on the 2309. it's small, but a good thing for people who get frustrating running out of "names" to use...

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