Any word from Denon about the 2009 - 2010 AVRs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1065 Old 02-21-2009, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer and Yamaha have both anounced their new 2009 AVRs recently but I haven't heard anything about a new line from Denon. Does anyone have any idea when the 1909, 2309 and 2809 are due for a refresh?
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post #2 of 1065 Old 02-23-2009, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone heard anything? Does Denon usually announce their products later than Yamaha and Pio?
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post #3 of 1065 Old 04-03-2009, 10:20 AM
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The new ones will start shipping as follows:

AVR-2310CI - July
AVR-3310CI - June
AVR-4310CI - May
AVR-4810CI - Fall

Finally HD Radio and ethernet ports built in (except 2310)
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post #4 of 1065 Old 04-03-2009, 11:21 AM
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link?

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post #5 of 1065 Old 04-03-2009, 01:42 PM
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If these model numbers are correct, my guess is that Denon has decided to follow the current trend of AVR manufacturers.....ie, the drop in both performance and weight vs the model line up.....kinda like the new 806 = the old 705.....Yamaha has done the same.


2310 = 2309
3310 = 2809
4310 = 3808
4810 = 4308

....is my guess, at least with regard to amp section and weight of unit. It will be great to get this info finally....maybe Pioneer will have some news soon as well????

05-1.3H BJC-3808-1.3H BJC-5080
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post #6 of 1065 Old 04-03-2009, 02:04 PM
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say what? how do you infer from the model numbers going from "9" to "10" at the end that they will weigh and perform less??

the numbers are a direct continuation of previous model numbers:

in 2008 it was 2308CI, 2808CI, 3808CI, etc.

in 2009 it was 2309CI, 2809CI, etc.

for 2010 it becomes 2310CI, 2810CI, etc.

You can see the model numbers page on my website to understand their overall naming nomenclature.

EDIT: I see now you are referring to the 3308CI, which you are presuming is a synthesis of 2809CI/3808CI levels. The 43XX and 48XX are carryovers from before. We shall see if the 33XX is a type or an actual new model number... I still doubt in any way it implies a loss in power/performance.

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post #7 of 1065 Old 04-03-2009, 03:01 PM
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I'm just guessing from what Onkyo, Yamaha and Pioneer are doing with their lines.

The 665 lost eight pounds in its upgrade from 663.
The 805 to 806 losses were even greater if I remember right.
The newest Pioneer 1019 appears to be about nine pounds lighter than the 1018.

Just trying to work a similar equivilant drop in weight into the new model numbers. I hope the new 48XX series doesnt drop to 43XX weight class, or that a new 33XX isnt really a 28XX by weight. Why eliminate the 38XX series, it was the sweet spot, my guess is the new 4310 will be more akin to the 3808 than any previous 43XX series.


....edited to just say....I'm not obsessed with the weight of the unit, just the sometimes false assumption that the weight of the unit can reflect the quality/substance of the amp/output stage of a typical avr.....it will be interesting when we do finally get some real info.

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post #8 of 1065 Old 04-03-2009, 03:15 PM
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MagnoliaPro2 posted in the 3808 thread that there will be no direct replacement for the 3808 and it will leave "quite a gap" between the 3310 and 4310.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post16144390

Personally, I'm hoping for a model similar to the 3808CI but with dual HDMI outputs. Sounds like they might be adding Dolby Pro Logic IIz (front height channels) to some of the models. I hope they'll make an announcement soon.
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post #9 of 1065 Old 04-06-2009, 07:47 AM
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Every one of the new models will have Dolby Pro Logic IIz. As far as the dual HDMI outs that will be on the 4310 and the 4810.
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post #10 of 1065 Old 04-06-2009, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWHTS View Post

Every one of the new models will have Dolby Pro Logic IIz. As far as the dual HDMI outs that will be on the 4310 and the 4810.

Will any of the new models have 2 or 3 independent sub outputs? Meaning each has it's level independently set by Audyssey?

I had read it was thought Denon would be announcing the new models by around 4/15. Whether that was guess, rumor, or fact, I don't know.
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post #11 of 1065 Old 04-06-2009, 08:36 AM
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No word if they will have independent sub outputs. However, IMO Audyssey only does a halfway decent job with calibrating the sub. I personally use an SMS-1 made by Velodyne to control 2 subs. Much better way of control.
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post #12 of 1065 Old 04-06-2009, 06:53 PM
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Any ideas on number of HDMI inputs or how much power each receiver will put out. Also, will any of the units with Dolby PL IIz have 9 amps to cover the additional front height speakers or will we have to sacrifice the rear surrounds to run the 2 new speakers? Will we need an external amp for the additional 2 speakers?

Thanks.
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post #13 of 1065 Old 04-06-2009, 11:48 PM
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if I was going to speculate, I would assume 4 HDMI for the mid-level models and 5 for the higher end (43XX/48XX). I would also assume high-end features like independent sub outputs with separate Audyssey calibrations and 9 amps for 9.1 (if they exist at all) will only be on the 4000 level models.

I highly, highly doubt you will see 9 amps or independent sub outs in anything below the 4000 level.... possibly 2 sub outs in the 3310, but no way on anything lower.

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post #14 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 12:18 AM
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Good question General Custer. DolbyIIz is a nice feature IF your reciver has 9 channels of amplification. How would you ever get the Audyssey thing to work properly?

Anybody heard any prices yet?

I wired my theater for 15 channels when I built it in 2005 (including a wire set hidden up in the ceiling just behind the seating, just waiting in case they invent a stereo pair "fly-over" channel set up for anywhere above and between the seating and rear wall. The other two extra channels are for another pair of mid-side speakers located about halfway further back towards the rear wall than my current side dual projecting surrounds, and of course the front uppers as mentioned. Dual subs make it fifteen channels.
Now that will be a nice sytem ...someday.

Here's a question for someone. I've got an AVR-4308ci bought sometime between mid-October to early November. It's never been fired up and brought online. According to the serial numbers I input at the Denon website for the unit, it says I don't need to update anything firmware wise.
Does this seem plausible that there has been no firmware updates since the original one done in October for the earlier release 4308ci models?

Also, This unit was bought at Costco. Do you think I can still get the free Audessy upgrade? Is Costco not considered an authorized dealer?

Darn, I think I just remembered something about having to activate it within 60 days of purchace.

I gather I'd get a yes from everyone to any question as to the Audyssey upgrade even if I have to pay for it myself (I'd only really be using the audio setup and EQ stuff. Don't listen to much internet radio down in the HT.)
I have dual Paradigm subs, not sure how it would deal with that.

Thanks for any firmware answers. I find a lot of conflicting info on this around here.
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post #15 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Custer View Post

Any ideas on number of HDMI inputs or how much power each receiver will put out. Also, will any of the units with Dolby PL IIz have 9 amps to cover the additional front height speakers or will we have to sacrifice the rear surrounds to run the 2 new speakers? Will we need an external amp for the additional 2 speakers?

Thanks.

HDMI Inputs/Outputs and power as follows:

2310CI = 5/1 No SACD; 105 x 7
3310CI = 5/1; 120 x 7
4310CI = rear 5/2, front 1; 130 x 7
4810CI = rear 5/2, front 1; 140 x 7

Not sure on how the Dolby PL IIz is going to run with taking up inputs. I have no pictures at this point but just specs. Anxiously awaiting pictures as they are supposed to have a new front panel design. Someone had asked about weights but those have not been released yet.
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post #16 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 09:09 AM
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MSRP's:

2310 - 800
3310 - 1500
4310 - 2000
4810 - 3000
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post #17 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 10:05 AM
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Wow, seems like a HUGE void (in price) between the 2310 and the 3310 - right where the old 280X sat.

jason
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post #18 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 10:15 AM
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it seems to just be a "realignment" -- that 3310 is smack dab in the middle of the 280X and 380X:

2309CI msrp = $850
2809CI msrp = $1200
3808CI msrp = $1700
4308CI msrp = $2700

there does seem to be a larger price gap between the "top of the entry level" vs. the "bottom of the upper level" models, I guess they wanted more product differentiation in their "higher end" lineup.

before there was a huge gap from 3808 to 4308... now it looks like the 3310 slots in between the 280X/380X, and the new 430X slots in between the old 380X and 430X models.

interestingly, the 3808CI and 4308CI have disappeared from Denon's AVR product page website! an announcement must be impending...

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post #19 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 10:18 AM
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the biggest question on my mind -- what the heck are they going to do with the product numbering scheme for the "three digit" models??? there is only one "digit" to represent the model year!

AVR 2309 can easily just become 2310.... but what the heck happens to AVR 889?

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post #20 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


interestingly, the 3808CI and 4308CI have disappeared from Denon's AVR product page website! an announcement must be impending...

I noticed this too, depending on how you navigate the site you may see them or you may not.

I hope we get an announcement real soon!
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post #21 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the biggest question on my mind -- what the heck are they going to do with the product numbering scheme for the "three digit" models??? there is only one "digit" to represent the model year!

AVR 2309 can easily just become 2310.... but what the heck happens to AVR 889?

Around here the only place to get the 3 digit models was Circuit City (RIP) - are there other retailers that sell these in mass?
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post #22 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 10:49 AM
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Fry's sells them too, at least where I live. Perhaps Denon is phasing out the 3-digit models with the demise of Circuit City (I have a feeling a large reason for the 3-digits was to prevent CC vs. BB price-matching).

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post #23 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWHTS View Post

HDMI Inputs/Outputs and power as follows:

2310CI = 5/1 No SACD; 105 x 7
3310CI = 5/1; 120 x 7
4310CI = rear 5/2, front 1; 130 x 7
4810CI = rear 5/2, front 1; 140 x 7

Not sure on how the Dolby PL IIz is going to run with taking up inputs. I have no pictures at this point but just specs. Anxiously awaiting pictures as they are supposed to have a new front panel design. Someone had asked about weights but those have not been released yet.

So no 9 amp setup with the bolby PL IIz. Are we going to have to add an external amp or sacrifice the rear surrounds?
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post #24 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWHTS View Post

HDMI Inputs/Outputs and power as follows:

2310CI = 5/1 No SACD; 105 x 7
3310CI = 5/1; 120 x 7
4310CI = rear 5/2, front 1; 130 x 7
4810CI = rear 5/2, front 1; 140 x 7

Not sure on how the Dolby PL IIz is going to run with taking up inputs. I have no pictures at this point but just specs. Anxiously awaiting pictures as they are supposed to have a new front panel design. Someone had asked about weights but those have not been released yet.

Exactly what I feared they would do.....

3808 = 130 X 7 currently
4308 = 140 X 7 currently

Do you have any info on the weights of the units? Its looking more and more that each model will take a step down in AMP/Weight while adding more features than previous models. Just like other manufacturers have done.....the next 3808 is the new 4310.

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post #25 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 11:57 AM
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Will the 2310CI finally get a decent-looking on-screen GUI? Or will we be stuck with that ghetto blocky text on a black background again?
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post #26 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peepoop View Post

Will the 2310CI finally get a decent-looking on-screen GUI? Or will we be stuck with that ghetto blocky text on a black background again?

My guess they will bring down the gui used in the upper models to the lower models.

Also the x3xx lines should be less in power than the x8xx lines leaving room for them to introduce a new x8xx if they want. Like someon else already commented atleast denon doesn't up the number of a unit and you have no clue they moved from the 5803 to 5308 and from the 4803 to the 4308.

Daniel.

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post #27 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 01:18 PM
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JWHTS, thanks for all the info.

Do you happen to know if any of these new models will utilize the Silicon Optix (I guess it's actually IDT now) Reon or Realta HQV video processors? Are there any other notable differences between the 4310 and 4810 to justify the $1000 MSRP difference?
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post #28 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peepoop View Post

Will the 2310CI finally get a decent-looking on-screen GUI? Or will we be stuck with that ghetto blocky text on a black background again?

All new user interface on the first two, and an "enhanced" one on the 43 and 48. Whatever "enhanced" means.

No word on the video processors.
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post #29 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 02:14 PM
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No word if they will have independent sub outputs. However, IMO Audyssey only does a halfway decent job with calibrating the sub. I personally use an SMS-1 made by Velodyne to control 2 subs. Much better way of control.

I appreciate the information on the new Denon models but I couldn't let this go. You really need to give Audyssey another try. Audyssey corrects your subs in more than one seat, at a MUCH higher resolution, and in the time domain. The Velodyne unit has its purposes, but is old technology.
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post #30 of 1065 Old 04-07-2009, 03:52 PM
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So we will need an external amp to drive 9 speakers?
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