Official Cary Cinema 11a/11v Owner's Thread - Page 66 - AVS Forum
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post #1951 of 1971 Old 01-02-2014, 01:14 AM
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My 11a did not distinguish between LPCM and DSD sent from an Oppo 105 via HDMI and did no bass management. I resorted to analog bypass so the Oppo did bass management and processed lossless codecs, a very satisfactory solution.

db

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post #1952 of 1971 Old 01-02-2014, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

My 11a did not distinguish between LPCM and DSD sent from an Oppo 105 via HDMI and did no bass management. I resorted to analog bypass so the Oppo did bass management and processed lossless codecs, a very satisfactory solution.

db

Thanks for the input. I get what you did there. I'd like to handle the bass management on the 11A as getting involved with drivers on my HTPC to do bass management is not something I want to get involved in.

I don't understand how you're supposed to get Dolby TrueHD out of this unit can't do bass management on an incoming LPCM or DSD signal.

Is there a way to have a HTPC encode TrueHD on the fly with Dolby Digital Live then have the Cinema 11a decode that and do bass management?

I feel like what I want to do is simple. I want to take HDMI from my HTPC to get lossless audio in 5.1.

Thanks again all,
Jason
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post #1953 of 1971 Old 01-03-2014, 01:23 AM
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Jason,

IIRC the 11a does process lossless codecs with HDMI input. My unit didn't do bass management for SACDs unless there was an explicit .1 channel, because it treated the output as DSD, and, as I understand it, Direct Streaming Digital has no explicit bass management information.

db

Thorens TD 124, SME Series III arm with Ortofon SME 30 H cartridge into Parasound JC-3 phono stage
Ayre C-5xeMP & Oppo BDP-105
Parasound JC-2 preamp into Proceed HPA amps
KEF Reference 107/2 mains & 102 surrounds
Velodyne SMS-1 bass managers & a pair of HGS-15 subs
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post #1954 of 1971 Old 01-03-2014, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

Jason,

IIRC the 11a does process lossless codecs with HDMI input. My unit didn't do bass management for SACDs unless there was an explicit .1 channel, because it treated the output as DSD, and, as I understand it, Direct Streaming Digital has no explicit bass management information.

db

I concur db ; the cary has a glitch when a dsd signal is input ; tried sending lpcm on my old oppo 95 and it always came up dsd = no bass management . I took Jasons enquiry to be general lpcm or the lossless codecs not dsd per se and bass management is fine for those whether for 16/48 ; 24/48 ; 24/96 lossless bluray tracks .

Its got twin cirrus logic cs 40970 chipsets so has plenty of processing power to handle decoding and b/m let alone straight lpcm smile.gif


Jason db is referring to sacd dsd 1bit 'bitstream' or decoded to lpcm specifically I think ; not lpcm that comes from a bluray or say a dvd-a wink.gif
The reason it has problems with dsd may have to do with the sampling rate [ speculating here rolleyes.gif ] ; dsd is depending on the universal or sacd player either decoded to 24/88.2 [an oppo ] or 24/176.1 [ sony iirc] . HDMI has to read this sampling rate via its handshake edid to lock on to the player . The cary has no problem with the other rates I mentioned above ..
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post #1955 of 1971 Old 01-04-2014, 11:32 AM
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Gotcha. Sounds like it'll work then! I'm really only looking to do 44.1 KHz anyway as most of my source material for music is lossless stereo CD rips.

For home theater / gaming, I believe I can force all my applications to send 5.1 LPCM over HDMI, so I presume it'll be fine. (I actually run a 4.0/4.2 setup but that's besides the point). Looks like I'm going to pull the trigger on the 11A now! Thanks all for the help! I will report back with results!
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post #1956 of 1971 Old 01-04-2014, 08:09 PM
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It's been awhile since I've posted here but have been having an issue with my 11a and what to see if this is a known problem. I have a PS3 connected via HDMI. When playing a DVD or game the video and audio blank out for a second or two, then comes back, then it may happen again a minute later. This was not happening a year ago. I had not observed this until I played a DVD today, however, my son told me this has been happening with his PS3 games for months. Any fixes for this? Not sure why this would be happening out of the blue? However, the other night I could not power on the 11a, had to turn off power to my amp and go back and forth a few times before the 11a worked. Not sure if that is related at all....

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,
JB
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post #1957 of 1971 Old 01-05-2014, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelp2005 View Post

I have a Cinema 11a with firmware v1.08.

Just last night it appears to have frozen while watching TV, that is I lost the audio.

Symptoms:
-input HDMI 1
- no audio
- there is video
- cannot change any setting on the processor, eg input, volume, power

Pull the plug to switch off.
Re-insert plug. Switch on, just goes back to above state and I have tried this multiple times, even leaving it overnight.

Any suggestions on how to reset or get working again?

Many thanks

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason bourne 1 View Post

It's been awhile since I've posted here but have been having an issue with my 11a and what to see if this is a known problem. I have a PS3 connected via HDMI. When playing a DVD or game the video and audio blank out for a second or two, then comes back, then it may happen again a minute later. This was not happening a year ago. I had not observed this until I played a DVD today, however, my son told me this has been happening with his PS3 games for months. Any fixes for this? Not sure why this would be happening out of the blue? However, the other night I could not power on the 11a, had to turn off power to my amp and go back and forth a few times before the 11a worked. Not sure if that is related at all....

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,
JB

Not quite the same, but I could not get my 11a working again, it is basically bricked. Emailed Cary and they speculated it could have been something to do with HDMI board, but I'd have to send in for repair. That wasn't an option, so the Cary is RIP.........
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post #1958 of 1971 Old 01-11-2014, 10:04 PM
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Hello all. I got my Cinema 11a in the mail today and it sounds great. The only issue I'm having is that it does take a bit to long to start audio. I'm using it with a HTPC and it passes the video to my TV. Whenever sound starts playing, I lose the first 1.5-2 seconds. Does the HDMI 1.4 upgrade fix this delay issue? If so, does it make it instant or will I always lose some audio?

EDIT: Interestingly, it seems like when my HTPC is set to output PCM 5.1 , the delay is 1.5-2 seconds before audio playback beings. When my HTPC is set to PCM 2.0, it only takes a fraction of a second.

Thanks,
Jason
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post #1959 of 1971 Old 02-10-2014, 10:46 AM
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Can anyone tell me how well the Cinema 11 does with analog? I'm looking at purchasing a used one to replace my Cinema 6 that was fried by a power surge. I've long since stopped using my Cinema 6 for HT and just use it as a 2 channel preamp mated with my Cinema 5 amp. I'm hoping the 11 is at least as good as the 6 in analog bypass which sounded pretty darned good.
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post #1960 of 1971 Old 02-10-2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTCrazy View Post

Can anyone tell me how well the Cinema 11 does with analog? I'm looking at purchasing a used one to replace my Cinema 6 that was fried by a power surge. I've long since stopped using my Cinema 6 for HT and just use it as a 2 channel preamp mated with my Cinema 5 amp. I'm hoping the 11 is at least as good as the 6 in analog bypass which sounded pretty darned good.

Do you really mean 11 vs 11a? If so then here are my impressions.

I have an 11 with older firmware (not the latest).
The basis for my comparison is an Aragon Stage One, which has a very, very good bypass.

The 11's bypass is really noise free and transparent. Enough so that (not DBT) I could hear a bit of difference between when the DSP was engaged and when it wasn't. I really like the sound on bypass. I like it enough to switch my 7.1 analog in from DSP to bypass.

The downside to the analog is that, at least on my version of the firmware, it doesn't always detect the analog signal. Then you have to switch back and forth among the inputs until it picks it up. Really annoying because sometimes you have to try several times. I cut my DAC from the signal path for this reason but the Cary's DAC is at least as good as my external DAC (a Bifrost).

I think this is related to the input seek feature but I'm not sure about that.
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post #1961 of 1971 Old 02-11-2014, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTCrazy View Post

Can anyone tell me how well the Cinema 11 does with analog? I'm looking at purchasing a used one to replace my Cinema 6 that was fried by a power surge. I've long since stopped using my Cinema 6 for HT and just use it as a 2 channel preamp mated with my Cinema 5 amp. I'm hoping the 11 is at least as good as the 6 in analog bypass which sounded pretty darned good.
If you meant 11a, I used an 11a with the inputs set to by-pass mode with analog from an Oppo BDP-105, Sony XA5400ES, and Parasound JC-3 phono stage. The sound quality was very good, but not quite up to that of the Parasound JC-2 analog stereo preamp that replaced it for stereo. (The surround channels from the BDP-105 now go directly to amps and sub channel to an LF ARC; the 105 provides the functions of a processor.) I would not hesitate to use a Cary 11a in analog mode, and that eliminates its quirky handling of HDMI.

db

Thorens TD 124, SME Series III arm with Ortofon SME 30 H cartridge into Parasound JC-3 phono stage
Ayre C-5xeMP & Oppo BDP-105
Parasound JC-2 preamp into Proceed HPA amps
KEF Reference 107/2 mains & 102 surrounds
Velodyne SMS-1 bass managers & a pair of HGS-15 subs
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post #1962 of 1971 Old 02-11-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

Do you really mean 11 vs 11a? If so then here are my impressions.

I have an 11 with older firmware (not the latest).
The basis for my comparison is an Aragon Stage One, which has a very, very good bypass.

The 11's bypass is really noise free and transparent. Enough so that (not DBT) I could hear a bit of difference between when the DSP was engaged and when it wasn't. I really like the sound on bypass. I like it enough to switch my 7.1 analog in from DSP to bypass.

The downside to the analog is that, at least on my version of the firmware, it doesn't always detect the analog signal. Then you have to switch back and forth among the inputs until it picks it up. Really annoying because sometimes you have to try several times. I cut my DAC from the signal path for this reason but the Cary's DAC is at least as good as my external DAC (a Bifrost).

I think this is related to the input seek feature but I'm not sure about that.

Yes it's the 11 not the 11a. I believe the seller said the firmware was up to date. I hope I won't have the same problem with it failing to detect analog since that's the only way I'll use it. The DAC also concerns me since the two sources will be an iPod to DAC to Cary or Cary Cinema 5 DVD player. Since the DAC is fairly new, the iPod DAC combo blows away the Cary DVD player. But of course the Cary DVD player is 12 years old. I'll upgrade to a media server soon, but for now I mostly use the iPod/dac. It will suck if I can't use the iPod DAC but I'll hope for the best.

I ended up purchasing the used piece so we'll see what happens.

One last question - has anyone tried the balanced outputs? Is that noticeably better than RCA's? And can you get away with using less expensive cables if you use balanced or will I still have to get the same level cable as the RCA?
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post #1963 of 1971 Old 02-11-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HTCrazy View Post

It will suck if I can't use the iPod DAC but I'll hope for the best.

Y'know what? I've never had this problem with the 7.1 analog input. If you do have a problem with one of the other analogs I suggest you just use that one.
Quote:
I ended up purchasing the used piece so we'll see what happens.

One last question - has anyone tried the balanced outputs? Is that noticeably better than RCA's? And can you get away with using less expensive cables if you use balanced or will I still have to get the same level cable as the RCA?

I'm currently using the balanced with a XLR snake cable I got from monoprice. It got rid of a ground loop hum and is absolutely silent as far as I can tell. The XLR is also louder than the RCA, which I didn't know but I think is common knowledge. I like how the system sounds better via balanced.

Better yet I'm actually using both the RCA and balanced at the same time.
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post #1964 of 1971 Old 02-12-2014, 09:35 AM
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So are both the RCA and XLR outputs playing simulataneously? Some day less expensive XLR cables can sound rolled off in the highs.

Others say you're fine with quality mike cords. I'll look into the mono price.
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post #1965 of 1971 Old 02-12-2014, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTCrazy View Post

So are both the RCA and XLR outputs playing simulataneously?

Yes. I'm using balanced for the fronts and the RCA for the surrounds. No particular reason for that, just historical.
Quote:
Some day less expensive XLR cables can sound rolled off in the highs.

Others say you're fine with quality mike cords. I'll look into the mono price.

I don't know that I can hear that anymore.

I am cable-agnostic. I actually got the XLR from monoprice because it was a snake cable and it was cheap. I had just had 2-3 sets of RCA "fail" which I don't quite understand so I needed some replacements.
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post #1966 of 1971 Old 03-18-2014, 08:54 AM
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Silly question I'm sure, but I can't find where the manual addresses how the 11a knows which profile to select either music or movie. Is the profile manually selected somehow?

Thank you,

LeeV
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post #1967 of 1971 Old 04-20-2014, 08:37 PM
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Hello. I am having problems with my Anthem AVM-50. I have sent it to Paradigm once already for repair and the problem was not fixed. I am now considering replacing it with a used Cary Cinema 11a. The seller claims that it is the "latest version." All the reviews I read say the 11a sounds great (as good or better than the AVM50), but after reading this thread about all the bugs, I am very hesitant. One reason for the "upgrade" is to take advantage of the lossless audio features, but the digital section seems to have the most problems. Since there are 66 pages to this thread, it was hard for me to tell if the issues have been resolved with firmware releases. Any advice from the panel?
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post #1968 of 1971 Old 04-20-2014, 10:05 PM
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I have recently moved on from the 11a to the Yamaha CX-A5000 and I'm very happy. I use it for movies, so can't give you a comparison for music. I had many HDMI issues etc with Cary, none with the CX-A5000 - could just be lucky smile.gif
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post #1969 of 1971 Old 04-21-2014, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Been40 View Post

Hello. I am having problems with my Anthem AVM-50. I have sent it to Paradigm once already for repair and the problem was not fixed. I am now considering replacing it with a used Cary Cinema 11a. The seller claims that it is the "latest version." All the reviews I read say the 11a sounds great (as good or better than the AVM50), but after reading this thread about all the bugs, I am very hesitant

Early versions with the hdmi1.3 input seem to be more problematic Been ; ask if the ''latest version '' means its had its hdmi board replaced with the hdmi1.4 version wink.gif Handy for 3d pass through if necessary too cool.gif

If your put off by the hdmi locking on speed missing initial notes [ I wasn't ] I was happy with mine until I sold it and found an emo 200 sounded equally fine to me smile.gif Coincidentally it's got the identical dual core cs 40970 chipset as the 11a . There's a 30 day return policy if you want to see if the lossless codecs are worth it to you ?
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post #1970 of 1971 Old 04-25-2014, 11:26 AM
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I have a Cary 11a that I replaced with a Parasound JC-2 analog stereo preamp, because I used only analog to Cary inputs set to bypass. The Cary processes lossless codecs without a hitch. The main complaint about digital aspects of the 11a was that the acoustic room setup gave bogus readings. The manual suggests a tape measure and SPL meter, and that's what I use. The most annoying, to me, fault of my 11a is that it doesn't distinguish between DSD and PCM from an SACD played on an Oppo 105, so provides bass management for neither. At the time, I was using KEF 104/2 speakers that needed to be supplemented by subs. I've since replaced those with KEF 107/2s that have great LF extension and sound fine without subs, even for the low pedal notes of a pipe organ. None of these problems were an issue with analog, and the Cary 11a is a fine sounding processor.

So my Cary 11a sits on its carton waiting for me to decide whether to list it for sale -- I've bought much of my equipment used, but never sold anything. I may use the 11a to replace a Proceed PAV/PDSD pair in a secondary system.

db

Thorens TD 124, SME Series III arm with Ortofon SME 30 H cartridge into Parasound JC-3 phono stage
Ayre C-5xeMP & Oppo BDP-105
Parasound JC-2 preamp into Proceed HPA amps
KEF Reference 107/2 mains & 102 surrounds
Velodyne SMS-1 bass managers & a pair of HGS-15 subs
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post #1971 of 1971 Old 05-01-2014, 02:38 PM
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If you decide to sell the Cary, let me know. You may email me directly at baysweb@gmail.com. My AVM is at Paradigm now for another opportunity to fix it, but my confidence level is low.

BWS
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