Yamaha RX-V765 vs. Denon AVR-1909 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-20-2009, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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My dear AVS Forum members. To first acknowledge the obvious, this is my first post on this forum, and this is a landmark moment, as it will likely be the first of many, many more.

About 5 years ago, I started to get into the Surround Sound audio, past the TV speakers and Mini-Shelf Systems. I am current in possession of a Sony STR-DE598. it has served me well for the time being, but over this past holiday, I upgraded to a 52" HDTV, and Blu-ray player. I am now looking to up my movie experience/thrill, by upgrading my system to one compatible with the latest lossless audio codecs (True HD, Master Audio...)

As derived form the title, i am in consideration of either a Denon AVR-1909 or Yamaha RX-V765. First, the obvious; the 765 is yet to be reviewed in quality, sound or, as a matter of fact, any other spec.

Nevertheless, I am in the process of comparing their specs on paper (or rather screen) and have been analyzing the differences.

DENON - terrible remote, hard set-up,
- better? sound quality, Audyssey

YAMAHA - no Audyssey, not reviewd yet
- preferred design, better remote, easier set-up

Most of the research around the 765 was based on the 663, which has a plethora of reviews on its side...

I hope you can help me out here; I would greatly appreciate your input (ha, pun) to sling me to either side, or perhaps, towards a Pioneer or Onkyo?

I hope we come to a decision.
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post #2 of 25 Old 03-24-2009, 04:58 PM
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Yamaha has pre-outs. This is huge if you ever want to step up to a power amps. I have a power amp for my mains, so this completely ruled out the 1909 and 2309 for that matter.

The 65 series Yamahas have a very nice feature called HDMI pass through, so you can still send the signal from your set top box or bluray player to your TV without turning on the receiver. I love this idea, as sometimes the TV speakers are good enough, and don't need to waste the power.

765 has 4 HDMI inputs. Denon has 3.

Can't think of anything else important, but I don't think it's much of a comparison. I'd go with the 765.
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post #3 of 25 Old 03-24-2009, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, the Pre-outs are good, but for the room size, I think I'm pretty good, although I do like upgrading ability.

HDMI pass-through is not that essential for me, as my 52" Samsung's speakers have been turned off, because I run all my sound through the AV receiver...
but still, a good feature to have.

As for the HDMI, I will only use two of those so I'm good with either.

The biggest concern now would be the sound quality.
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-24-2009, 11:24 PM
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i m also looking for either Yamaha or Denon but so far not much help in this forum.
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post #5 of 25 Old 03-25-2009, 09:03 AM
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I can't say anything bad about yamaha because I have never owned one. Never owned a Denon until about 6 weeks ago. I ran it for the first 2 or 3 weeks with default settings out of the box. Finally got a chance to run Audyssey and the my old JBL speakers (and sony sub) came alive. Sounds so much better than my old onkyo.
The remote is terrible but i have a harmony so it wasn't a big deal to me.
The set up/configuration was a little confusing but I found a wealth of info int he 789/1909 official thread here at AVS.
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post #6 of 25 Old 03-25-2009, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm have to try them side by side eventually, but for now, spec-wise, the Yamaha is standing out as the champ.

As for the remote, i do not have a universal remote beyond the one provided form my cable company. This brings the Yamaha even more on top..

For now, it looks like the Yamaha is leading this race...
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post #7 of 25 Old 03-25-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdwk View Post

The 65 series Yamahas have a very nice feature called HDMI pass through, so you can still send the signal from your set top box or bluray player to your TV without turning on the receiver.

All the '09 Denons (including the 1909) have this feature also.

Both Yamaha and Denon make an excellent product, so you will be happy either way. Just buy the one that has the specs and features you want.

The 765 doesn't have many reviews but it's safe to assume it will perform just like the well-reviewed RX-V663.

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post #8 of 25 Old 03-25-2009, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, i figured the sound should be about the same as the 663, plus it weighs about the same, signaling a similarity in the internal components...
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post #9 of 25 Old 03-25-2009, 07:24 PM
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There have been a few user reviews of the lower priced x65 models. Look on websites which sell the product, and have a review feature.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #10 of 25 Old 03-25-2009, 11:53 PM
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765 isn't shipping yet, so I don't think there have been any official reviews.

Batpig, I just flipped through the Denon 2809 manual and didn't see any reference to an HDMI pass through in standby. Could be burried somewhere I didn't see it.

That is kind of big for me, as 2809 does digital audio to secondary zones, and none of the Yamaha's short of the Z's do that. The pass through was pushing me towards the Yamaha.
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post #11 of 25 Old 03-26-2009, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, actually, the Yamaha does have a zone 2.
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-26-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossenpomakov View Post

Well, actually, the Yamaha does have a zone 2.

Analog only though.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-26-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:


Batpig, I just flipped through the Denon 2809 manual and didn't see any reference to an HDMI pass through in standby. Could be burried somewhere I didn't see it.

All '09 Denons have it, it's part of the "HDMI Control" feature set.

Quote:


That is kind of big for me, as 2809 does digital audio to secondary zones, and none of the Yamaha's short of the Z's do that.

You should know that the digital audio to Zone 2 is restricted; it ONLY works with 2.0 PCM through SPDIF (optical or coax), so it only works with something like a CD player or mp3 player hooked up with a standard digital audio cable. Not a huge restriction as most people are only sending music to Zone 2, but if for example you want to listen to the football game in the patio and your cable box is outputting 5.1, you are SOL and will still need to hook up some analog cables.

No receivers that I am aware of (though I'm sure they exist) will downmix multichannel digital audio in Zone 1 for stereo output to Zone 2. And I don't know of ANY receiver that will take HDMI audio to Zone 2.

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post #14 of 25 Old 03-26-2009, 04:52 PM
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Although I see no reference on their web page, my local yamaha sales rep told me that the 565, 665, and the 765 all use Anchor Bay video processing. This could make the deal for me, as 4 HDMIs, proper scaling and de-interlacing, and hi def audio are the most important to me. After reading another post here at AVS, Im concearned for the power output and may wait til some one puts it to the test. One member was quite confident that yamaha has skimped on the power amp this year. It may be too good to be true at this price point.
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-26-2009, 04:56 PM
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don't assume that the video processing will be anything wonderful just because of the name of the chip manufacturer. Look, we are talking about mid-level, $500-ish receiver here; it's safer to assume with all of these models that the video-processing will be inferior to that of any decent HDTV, or at best equal.

What sources do you need that require scaling/deinterlacing? You do know that it won't work on any of the 4 HDMI inputs, right? All of the scaling in receivers like this is for analog video only.

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post #16 of 25 Old 03-26-2009, 07:08 PM
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The Time Warner cable here in nebraska only gives me like 15 HD channels, so I would like to clean that signal (SD channels) up a little bit if possible. Also, I have a wii that could be polished a little. I would prefer that everything else (bluray and HD dvd) not be touched on the pass through.

So what is a legitamate $$ range for a receiver with quality upscaling? Any suggestions?
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post #17 of 25 Old 03-26-2009, 08:25 PM
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the only "affordable" receivers with truly good video processing are the Onkyo 875/876 models with HQV processing. Other than that you are looking at super high end options like Denon 5308CI.

You should read this article for some actual comparisons of mid- to upper-tier receivers:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/

And then go to CNet and read their recent reviews of midrange receiver options (Denon 1909, Yammy 663, Pio 1018, Onkyo 606, etc):
http://reviews.cnet.com/best-value-a...rColumnArea1.1

Cnet puts the receivers through HQV test suites so you will get a sense of what they can do.

In general, they will do an OK job with SD processing (basic deinterlacing of 480i) and scaling but almost none do anything positive to HD signals.

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post #18 of 25 Old 03-27-2009, 10:29 AM
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6Ave.com selling the Denon AVR-1909 7.1-Channel for $486.75 after 25% coupon code: AFLAUD25


here is the link:

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=DENAVR1909
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post #19 of 25 Old 03-27-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_james View Post

Although I see no reference on their web page, my local yamaha sales rep told me that the 565, 665, and the 765 all use Anchor Bay video processing.

If you're looking for decent video processing in an AVR, you're looking in the wrong place. Much better to pass video straight through and let the monitor do it's own processing. That's what you spent all that money on a TV for. The ABT chip used is a good one for scaling if properly implemented, but it isn't going to add any picture quality.
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post #20 of 25 Old 09-16-2009, 09:10 AM
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rossenpomakov:
did you ever make a decision, and if so, any thoughts, etc.?
i'm also looking at the 765.
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post #21 of 25 Old 09-16-2009, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey, yeah, I did not get either of the recievers. I m still sticking with my Sony, mostly because I used 500 dollars to buy the iPhone that I'm typing on right now. Maybe I'll decide once the holiday season comes up...
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post #22 of 25 Old 11-07-2009, 07:04 AM
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I'm looking at the Yamaha RX-V765, but I was wondering if it's possible to bypass the video upconvert while still feeding HDMI inputs (Blu-Ray, Cable) into the receiver?


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post #23 of 25 Old 11-07-2009, 07:13 AM
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I don't believe the receiver can process HDMI video, so I believe that's a non concern. Check the manual.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #24 of 25 Old 12-08-2009, 05:36 PM
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I am looking at three receivers; Denon AVR790, Onkyo TX-SR707 and the Yamaha RX-V765.

I have a 5.1 system BUT...the two front speakers are 4-ohm 30-year Allison-3 floor standers. The surround speakers are 8-ohm 30-year-old Allison-2 floor standers. Center and sub are also 8 ohm.

Any thoughts -- especially with the 4-0hm speakers?
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post #25 of 25 Old 03-14-2010, 06:47 AM
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I have the Yamaha 765 and a Denon 3808 in my house in different rooms. Just a few points....
To my ears, the sound (depth, soundstage) on the Denon is materially better than the YamahaThe main remote on the Denon is about the worst I have ever seen on a mid-range receiverThe YPAO room correction IMHO is crap --- only good for settng levels and distance. It absolutely made my system sound dull and lifeless whereas the Denon Audissey has continued to impress me and I have left on on in my systemThe HDMI pass through is a great feature on the Yamaha, I love this for my kids and wife where they dont have to fire up my whole system just to watch Oprah or DisneyThe yamaha surround fields just seem gimmicky to me and make the surround field selection much more complicated and messy in the Yamaha

Just a few thoughts...
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