Onkyo TX-SR507 Owners Thread and First Impressions - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 517 Old 05-03-2009, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mentasm View Post

I'm in the UK and I just got this amp, but after playing around with it tonight I have noticed a really strange (and potentially serious) issue.

I was testing a few discs that have multiple audio codecs on them with my BDP-S550, and I tried Spider-Man 3. I flicked through a few scenes with the TrueHD track until I got to the scene where New Goblin first attacks Peter. There was a lot of bass - specifically from Goblin's hover-board - and it sounded great.

However, when I flipped it over to PCM there was virtually no bass at all. I compared numerous times, but nothing. I have the Multi-Channel mode set to Multi-Channel, rather than direct or any of the other modes, but even flicking through them didn't provide anything close to the TrueHD track.

As an experiment I popped the discs into my PS3, which is set up to decode and send as PCM. This time both tracks lacked bass. The only common element is that the amp is receiving multi-channel PCM on all occasions where the bass is lacking. I switched from PCM to bitstream in the PS3 and although it was then only pumping out a standard Dolby Digital track, it sounded much better than the multi-channel PCM.

I also tried it with 300 on the BDP-S550, during the scene where the Persian army begins to march and the Spartan thinks it's an earthquake. Again, lots of bass on TrueHD, but you couldn't even hear the marching in PCM.

Now either I have set something incorrectly, I have a defective amp, or the 507 has major problems with bass management and multi-channel PCM... I set it up using Audyssey, and I haven't messed with any other settings that would affect PCM (from what I can tell).

Has anyone noticed anything similar? PS3 games also sound incredibly anaemic. My old amp was much better using optical and analogue inputs! It's so annying, because TrueHD/Master Audio sounds great (basically anything decoded by the AVR), but I have a lot of discs with PCM soundtracks and I can't live without bass...

That's an interesting observation Mentasm. I posted above that I noticed Direct did not produce any bass. Doesn't direct come through as PCM?
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post #32 of 517 Old 05-03-2009, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw79 View Post

Since this was sorta brought up in another thread about the sr507, but never definitively answered:

does the US version of the 507 have RIHD/CEC to enable hdmi passthrough when the receiver is off?

a lot of the sites selling the unit (as well as the manual) say it does, but the US onkyo product page omits it while the EU page includes it.

Hey Jaw -- today I decided to rewire my sub while the receiver was on and connected to my Xbox. I decided that it wasn't a good idea to mess with inputs while the receiver was on so I turned it off. When I did that the display went blank at first, but after a second started displaying the Xbox screen again so the receiver may support HDMI pass through. I have a DVI port so I dunno if sound would have been passed through too, but I assume it would have.
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post #33 of 517 Old 05-03-2009, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gungadin25 View Post

That's an interesting observation Mentasm. I posted above that I noticed Direct did not produce any bass. Doesn't direct come through as PCM?

I have set each format to use the corresponding listening mode in the set-up menu. So, Dolby Digital is set to Dolby Digital, Mono set to Mono, Master Audio is set to Master, Multi-Channel PCM is set to 'Multich' and so on.

I even tried resetting the amp to factory defaults earlier and running Audyssey again - same problem. The default listening mode for multi-channel PCM is multi-channel, but even switching to Pure Audio/Direct or one of the DSP modes doesn't produce bass comparable to TrueHD/Master Audio over bitstream.

Of course because this amp is so new not many people have it to test for this issue. However, I am certain that there is a problem with multi-channel PCM bass management on this model (or at the very least my unit). All the other channels sound fine - there's just no bass (or there's very weak bass to be precise). I really don't think it is a config issue with my players, because two players give the same results.

Not sure what system you have, but if you have a stand-alone player are you able to test a disc with both TrueHD/Master Audio and PCM over bitstream HDMI? If you have the same problem, the difference between the decoded track and the PCM should be very clear. As mentioned, Spider-Man 3 and 300 are good choices.
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post #34 of 517 Old 05-03-2009, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentasm View Post

Not sure what system you have, but if you have a stand-alone player are you able to test a disc with both TrueHD/Master Audio and PCM over bitstream HDMI? If you have the same problem, the difference between the decoded track and the PCM should be very clear. As mentioned, Spider-Man 3 and 300 are good choices.

I only have an Xbox 360 right now that I use for games and DVDs. So I can't do the test. I know gratefulgabe has a BD player though. Hopefully he can test and post his results.
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post #35 of 517 Old 05-03-2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SkiSmuggs View Post

The Audyssey set up is so easy, I don't understand why people wait for other speakers to arrive. I re-run even if I've just moved speakers further from the wall or changed the height of my speakers.

You're right SkiSmuggs. That was easy.
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post #36 of 517 Old 05-03-2009, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SkiSmuggs View Post

Edit: Your BDP1500 will bitstream all HD audio except for DTS-MA

Wrong! It will bitstream all audio, period. It will DECODE all audio except DTS-MA.
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post #37 of 517 Old 05-03-2009, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gungadin25 View Post

I know gratefulgabe has a BD player though. Hopefully he can test and post his results.

I'll do what I can guys but am not exactly sure what I need to do.

Watch a movie with a with a lot of bass under which tow settings? Unfortunately, I have neither Spiderman 3 or 300 but was watching Max Payne earlier today and there were parts with extreme bass.

I'm still messin' with the the audio channels. Been goin' back and forth from direct, mutichannel, Dolby II and Neo:6 Cinema. They all sound pretty much the same. Slight differences I suppose but can't begin to explain off of memory.
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post #38 of 517 Old 05-04-2009, 04:54 AM
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Do you have any discs with both a PCM track and another track? Can be anything really, even standard Dolby Digital. All you need to do is find a scene that has a reasonable bit of bass in DD, TrueHD, DTS-HD etc and then listen to the same scene again in PCM. If it's anything like mine there will be very little bass.

You have to be using HDMI and bitstreaming though. If any of your players are decoding internally the audio will sound the same on both tracks because the amp treats them both as multi-channel PCM. So, as long as the amp reads TrueHD/Master Audio/Dolby Digital or whatever for one track and 'Multich' for the other, you'll know the player is bitstreaming.
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post #39 of 517 Old 05-04-2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s44 View Post

Wrong! It will bitstream all audio, period. It will DECODE all audio except DTS-MA.

Oops, I'm almost never wrong. Thought I was wrong once, but turns out I was mistaken.
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post #40 of 517 Old 05-04-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentasm View Post

I have set each format to use the corresponding listening mode in the set-up menu. So, Dolby Digital is set to Dolby Digital, Mono set to Mono, Master Audio is set to Master, Multi-Channel PCM is set to 'Multich' and so on.

I even tried resetting the amp to factory defaults earlier and running Audyssey again - same problem. The default listening mode for multi-channel PCM is multi-channel, but even switching to Pure Audio/Direct or one of the DSP modes doesn't produce bass comparable to TrueHD/Master Audio over bitstream.

Of course because this amp is so new not many people have it to test for this issue. However, I am certain that there is a problem with multi-channel PCM bass management on this model (or at the very least my unit). All the other channels sound fine - there's just no bass (or there's very weak bass to be precise). I really don't think it is a config issue with my players, because two players give the same results.

Not sure what system you have, but if you have a stand-alone player are you able to test a disc with both TrueHD/Master Audio and PCM over bitstream HDMI? If you have the same problem, the difference between the decoded track and the PCM should be very clear. As mentioned, Spider-Man 3 and 300 are good choices.

I tried some of this with Dark Knight on a ps3. I bitstreamed DD, than tried it over PCM and I got big bass from both sources. The shotgun fire at the beginning was deep and loud. Next I selected DD trueHD ran it over PCM and had the same result. Everything seems to be fine. I get DD on the 507 display when I bitstreamed, and PCM multich when i used PCM.
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post #41 of 517 Old 05-04-2009, 05:11 PM
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I just wrote a lengthy reply to this thread and my browser crashed

Anyway, top and bottom of it was this: If I understand you correctly, you put the PS3 in Bitstream mode over HDMI and tested DD, then put it in Linear PCM mode over HDMI and tested DD again and got exactly the same bass response? There was no variation in the levels?

I just tried this on my PS3 with 300. Put it in Bitstream mode and got bass on the DD and TrueHD soundtracks, but hardly any on the PCM soundtrack. Put it in Linear PCm mode and there was no bass on any of the tracks. When playing the Dolby tracks in Bitstream mode the amp displayed Dolby D, when playing the PCM track the amp displayed Multich. In Linear PCM mode it displayed Multich for all tracks. If I understood your post correctly, this sounds like what you did?

I have no idea why my amp doesn't produce bass with PCM soundtracks or when my players are in Linear PCM (internally decoding) mode. Bitstreamed soundtracks from my standalone are fine (I get TrueHD/DTS-HD on the display), but PCM is dead. On the PS3 I can't get any bass in Linear PCM mode. The common element is PCM - be it PCM tracks or internally decoded audio output as multi-channel PCM. My wife also heard the problem, so it's not just me.

I am now faced with the prospect of having to pack up a three-day old amp and return it for an exchange. I really don't want to have to do that, because it will be a lot of messing around with the retailer, couriers, getting the shipping refunded and waiting for the replacement to arrive. I will call Onkyo UK's third-party support company tomorrow in the vain hope that they can help me out, but it's not looking good... Thanks for checking though.
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post #42 of 517 Old 05-04-2009, 05:51 PM
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Did you mess with the LFE boost setting?
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post #43 of 517 Old 05-04-2009, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentasm View Post

I just wrote a lengthy reply to this thread and my browser crashed

Anyway, top and bottom of it was this: If I understand you correctly, you put the PS3 in Bitstream mode over HDMI and tested DD, then put it in Linear PCM mode over HDMI and tested DD again and got exactly the same bass response? There was no variation in the levels?

I couldn't tell the difference.

I just tried this on my PS3 with 300. Put it in Bitstream mode and got bass on the DD and TrueHD soundtracks, but hardly any on the PCM soundtrack. Put it in Linear PCm mode and there was no bass on any of the tracks. When playing the Dolby tracks in Bitstream mode the amp displayed Dolby D, when playing the PCM track the amp displayed Multich. In Linear PCM mode it displayed Multich for all tracks. If I understood your post correctly, this sounds like what you did?

correct.

I have no idea why my amp doesn't produce bass with PCM soundtracks or when my players are in Linear PCM (internally decoding) mode. Bitstreamed soundtracks from my standalone are fine (I get TrueHD/DTS-HD on the display), but PCM is dead. On the PS3 I can't get any bass in Linear PCM mode. The common element is PCM - be it PCM tracks or internally decoded audio output as multi-channel PCM. My wife also heard the problem, so it's not just me.

I am now faced with the prospect of having to pack up a three-day old amp and return it for an exchange. I really don't want to have to do that, because it will be a lot of messing around with the retailer, couriers, getting the shipping refunded and waiting for the replacement to arrive. I will call Onkyo UK's third-party support company tomorrow in the vain hope that they can help me out, but it's not looking good... Thanks for checking though.

I also connected my ipod to the ps3 (usb), ps3 to 507 (hdmi) and get good/normal bass levels through PCM.

.
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post #44 of 517 Old 05-05-2009, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by s44 View Post

Did you mess with the LFE boost setting?

I wasn't aware that there was one? Can't see anything about that in the manual. I have even performed a full factory reset just in case I inadvertently activated something I shouldn't, but no dice. Will call Onkyo a bit later.
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post #45 of 517 Old 05-05-2009, 05:31 AM
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I can't remember whether you've run the Audyssey set up or not. If so, did you set the sub volume knob between 1/3 and 1/2, and the crossover to its maximum?
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post #46 of 517 Old 05-05-2009, 05:40 AM
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Yep, but if it was an audio Audyssey issue I'd expect it to affect bass on all soundtracks and sources, not just PCM. Audyssey actually set the bass a little below my preferred level as well, although it got most of the other levels pretty spot on.
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post #47 of 517 Old 05-05-2009, 09:30 AM
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I would like to hook up speakers for the surround back. The 507 has a pre-amp output so I would like to add an inexpensive amp (under $100) that would work. The one that I was looking at is the Audiosource Amp-100. Can anyone tell me if this would work with the 507 or recommend something in my price range. Thanks for any advice.
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post #48 of 517 Old 05-07-2009, 11:13 AM
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Anyone?
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post #49 of 517 Old 05-07-2009, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhoward750 View Post

I would like to hook up speakers for the surround back. The 507 has a pre-amp output so I would like to add an inexpensive amp (under $100) that would work. The one that I was looking at is the Audiosource Amp-100. Can anyone tell me if this would work with the 507 or recommend something in my price range. Thanks for any advice.

I don't see why not, but I'm no expert in amps. From Amazon.com:

Listeners can use the Amp 100 as an independent stereo amp (50 watts x 2 into 8 ohms) when used with a preamp, as a second zone amplifier in multi-room applications, or as a rear-channel amplifier in a 6.1- and 7.1-channel system.
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post #50 of 517 Old 05-08-2009, 02:01 PM
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I have this receiver on order then realized I need Front A/B capability to handle 2 sets of front speakers, one set of flush mounted in my ceiling and another set of bookshelf speakers. My rear speakers are also ceiling flush mounts. Can someone confirm there is no capability for front a/b speakers? What is my best option? Speaker switch? Can the pre-amp out be reassigned for front Bs or does that only run surround backs?

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post #51 of 517 Old 05-10-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentasm View Post

I wasn't aware that there was one? Can't see anything about that in the manual. I have even performed a full factory reset just in case I inadvertently activated something I shouldn't, but no dice. Will call Onkyo a bit later.

I too have the tx-sr507 and the bdp-s550 I have only two movies in uncompressed audio and both sound very flat when uncompressed and much much better in DD 5.1
after reading post about the S550 and the PlayStation.It's most likely the Sony
Products than the Onkyo..since they are comparable. Try using an optical or coaxial cable and DPLII Movie for the PCM and HDMI for the rest of the Codecs.. If these sony's performed the way their supposed to I wouldn't have had to buy the Onkyo..Which turned out to be a blessing in disguise...I am very happy with this Receiver although the Dynamic Volume...
does make my surround speaker Very Loud had to turn them down a bit..
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post #52 of 517 Old 05-11-2009, 06:57 AM
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I watch a lot of sports but during some commercials the sound level will adjust so high that I have to mute it. I am sure everyone knows about this issue. Can someone please let me know how well the Audyssey Dynamic Sound works for these situations? Also, if the Onkyo 507 is turned off can I still watch my TV using the speakers from the TV? Thanks!
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post #53 of 517 Old 05-11-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbonn View Post

I watch a lot of sports but during some commercials the sound level will adjust so high that I have to mute it. I am sure everyone knows about this issue. Can someone please let me know how well the Audyssey Dynamic Sound works for these situations? Also, if the Onkyo 507 is turned off can I still watch my TV using the speakers from the TV? Thanks!

I just started setting up my 507 last night. Haven't had a chance to run the Audyssey set up yet, but like you, I noticed the discrepancy in volume levels between commercials and shows. Will give it a shot tonight and see how well the dynamic sound works out.

I managed to get video to pass through to the TV when the receiver is off by going to Setup -> 7. HardwareConfiguration -> HDMI Ctrl (RIHD) to enable RIHD. It's disabled by default.

I've got all my components (Directv DVR, DVD player, Xbox360) using HDMI, and each one passes video when the receiver is off, but no audio. There's probably some glaringly obvious setting I've missed, so perhaps I'll find it when I spend some quality time going through all the options.
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post #54 of 517 Old 05-11-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibby View Post

I managed to get video to pass through to the TV when the receiver is off by going to Setup -> 7. HardwareConfiguration -> HDMI Ctrl (RIHD) to enable RIHD. It's disabled by default.

thanks for posting that.
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post #55 of 517 Old 05-11-2009, 12:55 PM
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Mentasm, any resolution to your lack-of-bass issue?

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post #56 of 517 Old 05-13-2009, 07:29 AM
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Is the volume scale on the 507 on a negative scale approaching 0db as "reference level" or is it on a positive scale?

I can't find the answer in the manual and no stores around here have the X07 line yet.

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post #57 of 517 Old 05-13-2009, 09:00 AM
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Hey "Skismuggs". I love Smugglers! Grew up in the Northeast Kingdom now living in So. Cal.

SoCal is a little warm for skiing, isn't it?
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post #58 of 517 Old 05-13-2009, 09:36 AM
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Hi Mentasm,

Have you checked that the Dynamic Range Control is set to 'Off' under the PS3 Video settings?
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post #59 of 517 Old 05-13-2009, 09:44 PM
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If you find out where the setting is in order to pass the audio also would you please post it. Thanks again.
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post #60 of 517 Old 05-14-2009, 01:05 AM
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This setting refers to an audio output option although it's located under the PS3 video settings:

BD/DVD Dynamic Range Control is an audio setting that compresses the dynamic range (makes everything the same volume level). You should let your receiver handle this type of thing.
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