Yamaha RX-465: initial impressions, and a question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 04-29-2009, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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My Yamaha RX-V465 arrived from 6th Ave. yesterday (paid 250.00 in name your price).

I had ordered 3 hdmi cables from Monoprice (20 bucks total; woo hoo) and setup was a BREEZE. I am using a Sony BDP-350s Blu-Ray player (open box, $131.00 from Macmall; pristine); an Xbox 360 and a soon to be replaced time warner dch3416 box (Direct tv comes tomorrow). I plugged in the 3 hdmi cables into the inputs, plugged the output HDMI to my Panasonic Th-50px60u plasmaTV, and off we went.

First, the receiver ran the speaker setup with the supplied microphone--took a few minutes, and scared the hell out of my cats. The result was nicely balanced sound between the speakers and much more low end than my old Panasonic XR-25 was able to supply (Diva 4.1/c3/2.1 speakers). The Xbox worked perfectly, so did the Sony and the cable box. Everything worked flawlessly right from the get-go.

The manual is ok, but backasswards--first, it has you do your speakers, and then leaves you hanging--setup is on page 33 or so. Go there first, and figure out how to set up and configure the inputs/sound settings. IT's pretty easy. I liked that it let me name my inputs (eg, "XBox").

I tried a few Blu-Rays. I had my Sony set to bitstream on "direct". Slumdog Millionaire is a DTS-MA title, and sure enough, when i pushed "option", it told me that it was decoding that. It sounded great. it looks great.

My question is this: I played Dark Knight, which is a Dolby True HD title. The receiver only said that it was playing Dolby Digital, but the bitrate was about 640kbps. Is this indeed True HD? I did NOT see any indicator (like a little blue light) that tells you it is decoding a Blu-Ray enhanced signal, or DTS-MA, for that matter. Am i missing something? The Sony does decode Dolby True HD, but i'm not sure if the Sony decoded it or the Yamaha did, with the Sony set to "direct".

Also, i'm wondering why it says my cable box is 720p when watching tv (though the Yamaha showed 1080i for blu's); i have my box set to output 1080i. Whatever, because it's being replaced tomorrow by a Direct tv HR-21, which should be a huge step up from the HORRIBLE dch3416.

Also noteworthy were the enhanced modes. Let's face it, they usually suck. Watching TV, however, with the "Enhanced" 7 Channel effect on was great--lots of space in the sound and use of the surrounds.

OTOH, the various emulated modes (like The Roxy, stadium etc.) are stupid, and i will never use them.

Overall, I'm very happy with the receiver. It sounds great, flawlessly controls all my stuff, and looks good too. I wanted a low cost receiver able to decode the new codecs and control my all-hdmi components, and this does the job beautifully.

Next step: get it set up with my Harmony 676, so i can toss all the extra remotes.

I'm surprised there is no official thread here for the RX-v465. It's a helluva piece, especially on sale!

my .02
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post #2 of 23 Old 04-29-2009, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildgift View Post

My question is this: I played Dark Knight, which is a Dolby True HD title. The receiver only said that it was playing Dolby Digital, but the bitrate was about 640kbps. Is this indeed True HD?

If you're getting DD at 640kps then you need to select the True HD track from the menu on the disk (use the pop-up menu if there's no main menu). IIRC The Dark Knight defaults to DD, not TrueHD. And I seem to remember you have to turn up the volume on that particular TrueHD track as it's quieter.

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Also noteworthy were the enhanced modes. Let's face it, they usually suck. Watching TV, however, with the "Enhanced" 7 Channel effect on was great--lots of space in the sound and use of the surrounds.

Did you notice how Yamaha describes the 7-channel enhancer in the manual? "Use this program to play back compression artifacts in 7-channel stereo". Doesn't sound so good the way they put it .
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post #3 of 23 Old 04-29-2009, 05:57 PM
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Something sounds incorrect with your setup, OR you did not select the TrueHD soundtrack on the disc. 640 bks DD is DD, not TrueHD.

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post #4 of 23 Old 04-29-2009, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm an idiot.

1. Yup, the True HD in the popup wasn't enabled (I didn't even know there was a pop up...) When i enabled it, the Yamaha said true hd

2. my cable box was somehow set to 720p. i reset to 1080i.

thanks!
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post #5 of 23 Old 04-30-2009, 12:01 PM
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Agree, this is a great inexpensive receiver and it does all that I need it to do. Got one last Friday. Had just arrived at Best Buy.

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post #6 of 23 Old 04-30-2009, 04:39 PM
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I bought this receiver on Sunday along with my LG BD 370 player and have a bit of an issue. I posted this in the "Bolt on Blu" thread:

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Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

Bolt is beautiful on Blu-ray. I picked it up this morning and watched it this morning with my son. We just started it up again so my daughter could watch a bit of it before bed.

I have an issue though: Both times now my AVR didn't detect the DTS-HD MA track. I had to go back to menu, and play it again.

BD Player: LG BD 370
AVR: Yamaha RX-V465
TV: Mitsubishi WD-52631

Using HDMI (obviously) between all components. I just got the player and receiver on Sunday. This is the 2nd movie we own (first is High School Musical 3, which did't have an issue).

Any ideas? Is this an issue with the movie (5.1 vs 6.1 issue in earlier posts) or should I head over to the receiver section?

I just received Bedtime Stories from Netflix. I just started it for the family to watch and the same problem happened--no audio on the movie and the receiver showed "Decoder Off". I had to restart the movie and then it worked.

I'll swap out the HDMI cable, but I'm getting frustrated.

Any ideas? Anyone else have issues with Disney Blu-ray movies that use DTS-HD MA? I have the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy here (still unopened). I wonder if they'll have a problem, too.


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post #7 of 23 Old 04-30-2009, 06:20 PM
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Does anyone else have a DTS-HD MA Blu-ray movie they can try with this receiver.

I can recreate the issue with Bolt and Bedtime Stories. High School Musical 3 plays just fine, though.

I don't have any other DTS-HD MA movies to test with. Is it the receiver? The LG BD 370? The movies themselves?

Pirates is Uncompressed PCM, so that's not applicable for this test.


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post #8 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

Does anyone else have a DTS-HD MA Blu-ray movie they can try with this receiver.

I can recreate the issue with Bolt and Bedtime Stories. High School Musical 3 plays just fine, though.

I don't have any other DTS-HD MA movies to test with. Is it the receiver? The LG BD 370? The movies themselves?

Pirates is Uncompressed PCM, so that's not applicable for this test.

In my experience you have to choose which audio track you want to use. On some BDs it could be DTS HD by default, on others DTS (or DD). I haven't got the same receiver, but by selecting "audio" from your BD370 remote, you can switch between audio tracks. The same thing can be done via "display" button and selecting audio track from there.
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piizei View Post

In my experience you have to choose which audio track you want to use. On some BDs it could be DTS HD by default, on others DTS (or DD). I haven't got the same receiver, but by selecting "audio" from your BD370 remote, you can switch between audio tracks. The same thing can be done via "display" button and selecting audio track from there.

Both disks in question default to DTS-HD MA.


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post #10 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

Both disks in question default to DTS-HD MA.

Slumdog Millionaire defaulted to DTS-MA, if that helps, and the receiver showed that it was decoding it.
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildgift View Post

Slumdog Millionaire defaulted to DTS-MA, if that helps, and the receiver showed that it was decoding it.

Thanks. What player do you have?


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post #12 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

Thanks. What player do you have?

I have a Sony BDP-S350. Great player, btw. It doesn't decode DTS-MA, so i know that the Yammy did (also, as mentioned, the words appeared on the display)
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildgift View Post

I have a Sony BDP-S350. Great player, btw. It doesn't decode DTS-MA, so i know that the Yammy did (also, as mentioned, the words appeared on the display)

The LG BD 370 can decode the audio, but I bought the Yamaha receiver because it can do it, and TrueHD. I figured bitstreaming to the receiver and decoding there is better. Perhaps it's no different.

But I do like seeing TrueHD and DTS-HD MSTR on the receiver's display.


I guess I need to take some action--I don't like when things don't "just work". Sure, I can cycle through the audio tracks and make it work but should my kids need to learn that? My wife? Nah. It really should "just work".


Maybe this is a glitch between the LG BD 370 and the Yamaha RX-V465. There's no other talk about it. I could replace either component and probably resolve this.


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post #14 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

...I figured bitstreaming to the receiver and decoding there is better. Perhaps it's no different

What were your reasons for thinking it would be?

I have yet to read any test where anyone demonstrated that bitstream to the receiver is better. Some people claimed jitter might be reduced by bitstreaming, but no one has proved it And no one has proved jitter is an issue with HDMI.

One person claim they had proof HDMI had jitter issues, but I don't recall him ever posting a link to a source I could read that explained why.

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post #15 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 01:20 PM
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Here's a thread on HDMI jitter. I could not really separate out the BS from the facts.

On the off chance other people can, I will post it

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=908665&page=3

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post #16 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

What were your reasons for thinking it would be?

I have yet to read any test where anyone demonstrated that bitstream to the receiver is better. Some people claimed jitter might be reduced by bitstreaming, but no one has proved it And no one has proved jitter is an issue with HDMI.

One person claim they had proof HDMI had jitter issues, but I don't recall him ever posting a link to a source I could read that explained why.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that there would be jitter. I'm a bit of a newbie with HD audio, but my understanding is that I can do the following:
  • Bitstream and let the receiver decode
  • Have the player decode - this will send multi-channel PCM to the receiver
  • Have the player re-encode to DTS (this downgrades the audio)

I just figured that sending audio data to the receiver as it's encoded on the disc is better because the receiver can decode/process.

Again, I have no proof of why that would be better--just an assumption. Perhaps it's wrong. But if it is wrong, then why have the decoder in the receiver at all if the player can decode TrueHD or DTS-HD MA?


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post #17 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 01:28 PM
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[quote= . But if it is wrong, then why have the decoder in the receiver at all if the player can decode TrueHD or DTS-HD MA?[/QUOTE]

To sell you a new receiver with exciting new features.
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post #18 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by scdaf- View Post

To sell you a new receiver with exciting new features.

Damn, it worked!


My old receiver was a Pioneer VSX-1014tx-k. It didn't do HDMI anything, so my "upgrade" was to get HD audio working. I succeeded in that, at least.


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post #19 of 23 Old 05-01-2009, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

But if it is wrong, then why have the decoder in the receiver at all if the player can decode TrueHD or DTS-HD MA?

There are reasons for this.

First off, if you go back, not very far, players often did not decode DTS-HD Master Audio. People who wanted DTS-HD would sometimes buy a receiver for that purpose.

Second, it's market driven. People want their receiver to decode. They may assume it's better for whatever reason, or they may just be used to that paradigm because that's how DVD works. Few DVD players had decoders.

There's also the possibility of some yet unknown source bitstreaming DTS-HD or TrueHD and not wanting to spend the money on a decoder.

One thing, I personally think, is that decoders are cheap enough, that there's not a lot of cost to including them in both devices. That let's people pick and choose depending on their needs. It will be interesting to see if decoderless Blu-ray players ever become the norm, or if they will continue to include decoders.

One last thing, most players require player side decoding for secondary audio. Which is one reason to do player side decoding.

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post #20 of 23 Old 05-02-2009, 03:57 PM
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Thanks for the info Michael.

My mind was stuck on resolving my issue today so I boxed up the RX-V465 and took it back to Best Buy. 2 of the three guys I talked to recommended I wait for the next firmware update for the LG BD 370 to see if it'd fix the issue. The 3rd guy said he'd try a different receiver before waiting on firmware updates. I left with the Pioneer VSX-819H. (very similar to the Yamaha 465 but I lost 1 HDMI input but gained banana jack on all 5 channels and iPod/iPhone control).

Bottom line--I still have the DTS-HD issue. So, those 2 guys at Best Buy were right--a firmware update for the LG BD 370 will have to fix this issue.

If you are on the fence about buying the Yamaha rx-v465, don't let my issue stop you.


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post #21 of 23 Old 05-02-2009, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

Again, I have no proof of why that would be better--just an assumption. Perhaps it's wrong. But if it is wrong, then why have the decoder in the receiver at all if the player can decode TrueHD or DTS-HD MA?

Also one more important reason. People want to see the TrueHD display on their receiver light up.

I cant believe how many people bitched and moaned about the PS3 or other players because it couldn't make "TrueHD" light up on their receiver display!!!

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post #22 of 23 Old 05-02-2009, 04:35 PM
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It was not the bitching and moaning which surprised me. It was the people who were planning on getting another player because it did not bitstream.

Perfectly good player, yet some people felt the need to spend more money on another one.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #23 of 23 Old 05-25-2009, 11:06 AM
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i need help!?!? i have my tv avr and bluray all connected via hdmi. When i go to play a movie on the bluray player at best i can get is the dreaded green screen and audio only? this is the equipment.
1)Pioneer 42 PDP-42A3HD Plasma
2)Yahmaha RX-V465
3)Samsung 2550 (with newest firmware)
When i turn the player on i get the samsung screen and can go through all the setup menus no problem. I have the display set to 1080i the 24p off and the audio set to bitstream(audiophile). As soon as i put a movie in i have only tried dvd's i don't have any bluray discs yet, the loading bar comes up, it loads, then the screen goes black? I get a lot of flickering on the tv (no signal then black, no signal then black) and also flickering on the front of the avr (hdmi light goes on and off and decoder goes on and off). I never get sound or video the entire time. If I turn the tv off at this point, then back on I will get the green screen finally with sound now? I never get the video and sound however? What is going on? This is driving me crazy any help would be appreciated greatly.
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