how important is dolby digital plus? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
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im getting a new reciever and some speakers for my bedroom, gonna get a 5.1 system (well not exactly the 2 towers in the front im looking at have subs in them and i was considering putting a sub in the back by the rears too) since this will be pretty much just for games and thats what most of them are encoded for, and i think a 7.1 would be overkillin the room (18X13)

anyway I dont know squat about audio stuff. I have a pretty good knowlege of tvs and video stuff, but audio im a total noob. Ive been doing a bit of research and went into a magnolia today, and i think im gonna wanna snag a denon (glanced at some pioneers too) they have a good deal on the AVR 2809, for like 850 bucks and i thought that looked pretty good but when i got home and did some research i realized it doesn't have dolby digital plus unfortunatly =( Now i dont know much about this stuff but from what i can gather it seems like DD+ is going to be kinda the new standard? What exactly does it do and is it important to get? Especially for games

this will be only used for video games and some blueray watching with my ps3

if DD+ IS that important i was thinking of maybe getting the avr 3808, since that one DOES show that it has it.. even though for some reason its a 2007 model and the 2809 is 2008 model. Odd

actually the 3808 looks pretty good because i noticed amazon has it for 999 bucks, which sounds like a really good deal to me though i dont know how long that will last. The extra wattage and DTS makes it appealing for that price but i would rather pick all this stuff up in a box store in case theres any problems

So anyway how important is DD+ and what exactly does it do? thats gonna be a major deciding factor

the pioneer SC-05 was another backup i was considering since it has DD+ i believe

ungh got a headache from comparing junk online for so long i'll do more research this weekend, theres some other questions i have but i'll save those for later, especially a disturbing thing i found on some forums about sony tvs and denons over HDMI
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 04:18 AM
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Since you will be using a PS3 you don't need to worry about what the receiver handles for codecs. All you need to make sure is that the receiver will accept LPCM over HDMI, your PS3 will be doing all of the decoding itself.

FWIW though, I believe the 2809 does in fact have built in decoding for all current codecs.
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 05:29 AM
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DD+ is a dead format. It was popular in HD DVDs. DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD are the new format of choice for Blu-Rays. Games are still using DD 5.1 at best.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 06:05 AM
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The Denon 2809 decodes Dolby Digital Plus, but you've got a PS3 anyway which does all the decoding internally and then sends the signal to the receiver so the point is actually moot.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4484.asp

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post #5 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 07:05 AM
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I think most receivers which decoded TrueHD also did DD+, didn't they?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 07:22 AM
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Dolby digital plus may also be important again as streaming video gets more popular. It has been designed to be more efficient for streaming. Vudu claims its content is authored in dolby digital plus but is currently being converted to dolby digital.
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I think most receivers which decoded TrueHD also did DD+, didn't they?

I thought the same thing about DTS MA and DTS HR and for the most part that is true. However according to Integra not all of their DTS MA capable receivers are DTS HR capable. I don't how many other brands do something similar.
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The Denon 2809 decodes Dolby Digital Plus, but you've got a PS3 anyway which does all the decoding internally and then sends the signal to the receiver so the point is actually moot.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4484.asp


actually according to denons site it does not do DD+. I looked at that stuff when i was checking the features and on the detailed specs page the dolby digital plus thing does not have a green check next to it, so that should mean it does NOT support it, right? I found it odd that it didn't suport it or pro logic II, even their

very oddly even their 5308, the highest one doesn't list DD+ or pro logic II o_O what the.

some of you say DD+ is kinda dead anyway, whats it suposed to actually do though?

should my xbox decode all that stuff itself btw as well?

while im on the subject, what about pro logic II? is that important at all? Im not really clear on what that does, i think it takes non 5.1 signals and makes them 5.1 or something like that? is that right? I seem to remember ps2 games using that, not sure if anything does these days
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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im actually quite confused on denons listing of features actually now that im looking..

on denons site
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3510.asp

there is no green check next to pro logic II or pro logic IIx, ect.

but if you look at amazons tech specs
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-3808.../ref=de_a_smtd

it does list pro log IIx.. what the heck?
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 01:12 PM
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Yamaha has similar anonamlies from time to time. Every 7.1 receiver I know of has DPL IIx.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Yamaha has similar anonamlies from time to time. Every 7.1 receiver I know of has DPL IIx.

As I recall, Yamaha AVRs interestingly offer both original Dolby ProLogic & current Dolby ProLogic IIx matrix decoding schemes. Is that correct?

AJ
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

As I recall, Yamaha AVRs interestingly offer both original Dolby ProLogic & current Dolby ProLogic IIx matrix decoding schemes. Is that correct?

AJ


Dolby Pro Logic IIx is a mandatory requirement for any AVR which has Dolby Digital, Digital + and/or Tru Audio be it 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1...

Just my $0.025..
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Dolby Pro Logic IIx is a mandatory requirement for any AVR which has Dolby Digital, Digital + and/or Tru Audio be it 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1...

Yes, that is true, but it is not relevant to my question.

Am I correct in my recollection that Yamaha AVRs continue to offer legacy Dolby ProLogic processing (in addition to Dolby ProLogic IIx)?

AJ
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post #14 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Yes, that is true, but it is not relevant to my question.

Am I correct in my recollection that Yamaha AVRs continue to offer legacy Dolby ProLogic processing (in addition to Dolby ProLogic IIx)?

AJ

Yes. You can select either, at least on my receiver.

I can cycle through (with a 7.1 speaker setup)

DPL IIx Movie
DPL IIx Music
DPL IIx Game
Neo:6 Cinam
Neo:6 Music
CS II Cinam (yuck)
CS II Music (not much better)
NRL-THX (nice)
NRL-THX Music (nice)
Pro Logic

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #15 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 04:58 PM
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Since the largest impact DD+ has made to date is on HD DVD disks many feel it is a dead format. I don't think so.

As shoeboo points out, DD+ is the transmission standard format for Vudu due to its improved compression algorithms over DD. Less bandwidth, more content. For the very same reason it has been adopted as a broadcast standard by the NTSC. Will it hit your receiver soon from your antenna or cable. I dunno, but to me it isn't something to dismiss out of hand until more is known on its various implementations.

2008 Pioneer and Pio Elite receivers have a audio dropout bug playing many HD DVD tracks in DD+ from Toshiba players. I do not know if these Pioneers will have the same dropout problems with media other than HD DVD.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 05:42 PM
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France is using Dolby Digital Plus for their OTA HD, along with regular Dolby Digital.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/11/02...y-digital-plu/
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post #17 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 05:57 PM
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Regardless, DD+ isn't the new standard as OP suggested. Whether or not it is a dead format is debatable, IMO.

So, back to OP's topic, DD+ isn't a criteria to base on for AVR selection. The fact OP is using PS3 that can't even bitstream DD+ makes this topic a moot point.
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post #18 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgribbles View Post

As shoeboo points out, DD+ is the transmission standard format for Vudu due to its improved compression algorithms over DD. Less bandwidth, more content. For the very same reason it has been adopted as a broadcast standard by the NTSC. Will it hit your receiver soon from your antenna or cable. I dunno, but to me it isn't something to dismiss out of hand until more is known on its various implementations.

mrgribbles, you mean ATSC, not NTSC.

Certainly, if the ATSC could take a magical mulligan today (about 15 years after its selection of standards), it would establish MPEG-4 instead of MPEG-2 and E-AC-3 (aka Dolby Digital Plus) instead of AC-3 (aka Dolby Digital) as its mandatory video & audio codecs, respectively, for DTV. If so, and if DTV broadcasters were to cooperate w/ their 19.39 Mbps 8VSB data streams, then we could receive OTA roughly Blu-ray quality 1080p (yes, 1080p) video & Dolby Digital Plus (640 kbps) audio.

But what is done is done. Mandatory DTV hardware standards are long since set. Yet the DTV transition continues to be a mess, due to some public resistance/incapacitance to change. Any transition to MPEG-4 &/or E-AC-3 is unlikely in the foreseeable future.

AJ
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post #19 of 21 Old 05-16-2009, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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tnx for the info on that guys, you bring up a good point though with the pro logic II and pro logic IIx stuff, that was actually going to be my next question =P

im not really clear on what pro logic is, i remember a lot of older ps2 games and the like used to use it. i think it takes non 5.1 signals or something and turns them into 5.1, is that right? if so whats the pro logic IIx and stuff do? i see it mentioned on some recievers.

Its funny you mention yamaha i was looking at one as a 3rd option, the RX-v1900

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882115139

and its good to know that that has the pro logic IIx.. just what exactly is that? This game mode thing sounds interesting especially since this will be pretty much exclusivly for gaming

basically im looking at that one and either one of the denons

AVR-3808
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3510.asp
or avr 2809
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4484.asp

(im still kinda iffy on the 3808 because its a 2007 model and im still trying to find out if the rumors with denon having problems with sony tvs are true)

or the pioneer.. im kinda leaning to the pioneer sc-05
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU.../ci.SC-05.Kuro

kinda leanin to the pioneer because my old one was a pioneer and i liked it

Do all those have the pro logic and pro logic IIx? the spec sheets on some are confusing, particularly the denons, the checks are missing on their homepage spec sheet but on price sites it says they have it o_O

im pretty sure the pioneer at least has it

at least i have the DD+ question answered, im doing some reading up on these 3 different brands right now, denon seems to get the most kudos, dunno how pioneer and yamaha rank with them. Gonna have to try to find some good online retailers to check prices too because magnolia was quite high
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-17-2009, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-dono View Post

actually according to denons site it does not do DD+. I looked at that stuff when i was checking the features and on the detailed specs page the dolby digital plus thing does not have a green check next to it, so that should mean it does NOT support it, right? I found it odd that it didn't suport it or pro logic II, even their

very oddly even their 5308, the highest one doesn't list DD+ or pro logic II o_O what the.

some of you say DD+ is kinda dead anyway, whats it suposed to actually do though?

should my xbox decode all that stuff itself btw as well?

while im on the subject, what about pro logic II? is that important at all? Im not really clear on what that does, i think it takes non 5.1 signals and makes them 5.1 or something like that? is that right? I seem to remember ps2 games using that, not sure if anything does these days

You're onto something there. The product features and specifications conflict with each other few times. In the specifications it says the 2809 is an HDMI 1.1 receiver, but further down mentions 1.3a HDMI inputs.
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post #21 of 21 Old 05-17-2009, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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ya, im kinda confused... denons may be outa the running untill i can get some confirmation on the hdmi problem with sony tvs, or if the place i get it has a liberal return policy, leanin more to the sc-05 right now.. still curious about my other questions, been pouring through threads and doing quite a bit of research past few days, this stuffs making my head spin
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