Official Onkyo TX-SR707 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 115 - AVS Forum
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post #3421 of 3607 Old 02-26-2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NDLBox View Post

I ordered everything. How long after applying flux do you have to re-flow the solder?

PS - ordered a themometer, heatgun, flux and heatsink... total spend was approx $70. Total novice at this, so lets hope I don't end up burning my new house down!

I think sooner rather than later but I'm actually not sure, I'm more familiar with rosin fluxes. It may not matter at all.

And really, a whole minute at 470f may destroy the board. Start small. a single ounce of flux is enough to do this several times until you are successful.
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post #3422 of 3607 Old 02-28-2012, 09:32 AM
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You mentioned your board wasn't completely stable until you reflowed a 2nd chip... what other issues were you experiencing?
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post #3423 of 3607 Old 02-28-2012, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NDLBox View Post

You mentioned your board wasn't completely stable until you reflowed a 2nd chip... what other issues were you experiencing?

occasionaly no audio on turn-on unless reset.

My board had gotten bad enough, before i started working on it, that it would need warmup followed by reset and sometimes the audio would drop out during use, requiring a reset.

Which really annoyed me because my center channel needs to be 6db down vs. my fronts. So bare minimum i was listening to bad surround or navigating setup menus.
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post #3424 of 3607 Old 03-03-2012, 02:27 AM
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I had the same no sound problem. They replaced at first the HDMI board (but that did not fix it in my case; after only one hour I got the same no sound symptoms) then 2nd repair they replaced the pre-amp board plus did a firmware upgrade. That solved it and now stable for 6 months. Therefore it might be good to realize that the problem might not be isolated to the HDMI board ICs alone. (707 sold in Netherlands Europe, so not only a USA problem)
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post #3425 of 3607 Old 03-03-2012, 02:16 PM
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Well, nobody seem to take notice to my input made 2 weeks ago. At least no questioning from it and continious talks about heatgun treatment. Nothing wrong with that I´m sure, but I wonder how to keep track on temperatures with that method...
My 707 have after oven-baking the HDMI board worked flawlessly for two weeks. I have put a heatsink on the soundprocessor that ejorge had estimated to app. 35*35mm. That Ic gets hotter than hell which is worrying. I have also mounted a small comp. 12v fan with an adjustable pot. hooked to an old Ac - Dc converter. Now the amp. hardly get above normal bodytemp and is working great, still keeping my fingers crossed...
Just wanted to share my experience from this malfunction hoping to help others. Bare in mind I did this after reading a few threads about graphic-cards for computers having the same issue due to heat. Had a hard time believing it but didn´t have anything to lose. If this, however, doesn´t work I will just buy a new amp, propably a Yamaha RX-A2010 with 9.2 and dual HDMI outputs. But as long as my 707 keep doing it´s job I´m more than happy because it is a sweet companion in the "sanctuary"

Cheers.
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post #3426 of 3607 Old 03-05-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_sweden View Post

Well, nobody seem to take notice to my input made 2 weeks ago. At least no questioning from it and continious talks about heatgun treatment. Nothing wrong with that I´m sure, but I wonder how to keep track on temperatures with that method...
My 707 have after oven-baking the HDMI board worked flawlessly for two weeks. I have put a heatsink on the soundprocessor that ejorge had estimated to app. 35*35mm. That Ic gets hotter than hell which is worrying. I have also mounted a small comp. 12v fan with an adjustable pot. hooked to an old Ac - Dc converter. Now the amp. hardly get above normal bodytemp and is working great, still keeping my fingers crossed...
Just wanted to share my experience from this malfunction hoping to help others. Bare in mind I did this after reading a few threads about graphic-cards for computers having the same issue due to heat. Had a hard time believing it but didn´t have anything to lose. If this, however, doesn´t work I will just buy a new amp, propably a Yamaha RX-A2010 with 9.2 and dual HDMI outputs. But as long as my 707 keep doing it´s job I´m more than happy because it is a sweet companion in the "sanctuary"

Cheers.

Hey chris_sweden,
I actually thought your idea was pretty good and plan on giving it a try if (when?) my receiver ever malfuntions. It's been running in an enclosed TV stand for over 28 months with no issues even though it runs 8-10 hours a day with heat pouring out of the stand.

Thanks for the "bake it in the oven" idea. Hopefully I'll never need to use it but I'm glad to have it.

-Jeff
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post #3427 of 3607 Old 03-05-2012, 01:27 PM
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Yeah, I too thought it was a very ingenious idea.

Like Jeff, my unit is still working perfectly for over 2 yrs, with the original software and lots of heat pouring out of the vents of the cabinet.

If and when it goes out, it will be time to purchase the latest with the most...
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post #3428 of 3607 Old 03-05-2012, 09:19 PM
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I just wanted to add that I purchased a 707 from A4L in April 2010 and it is now exhibiting the no sound problem.

I contacted them to see if it was still under warranty, but I'm not hopeful.

I haven't decided if I will try to fix it myself or scrap it for something new
Probably not another Onkyo at this point. (hopefully my PR-SC886 will not have any problems)
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post #3429 of 3607 Old 03-07-2012, 11:21 AM
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Ok, I gave it a shot. It took a long time to pre-heat the board up to 275F with the heatgun on low. I did not want to use high for very low because it draws a lot of amps and I'm not sure the surge strip in my work area can take it. Also the gun on high is like 1,150F so it heats things up FAST!

It was difficult to get the chips up much past 350 or so... I tried on high and it instantly shot up past 460... man I wish my HF heatgun had a 'medium' setting! I hope that between 300 and 400 is enough to get a decent re-flow.

My house stinks like flux and the packing oil that burned off the heatgun, board's cooling now... keeping my fingers crossed!

I ordered another heat sink for the Dolby chip - 15mm x 15mm x 12.5mm. If the board works I'll use the few days between now and when it arrives to make sure the fix is stable before affixing them.

UPDATE - IT WORKED! I guess you don't have to be too scientific to re-flow these things - just getting them up near 400F seems to do the trick in re-wetting the solder. I'll give it a few days and then slap heatsinks on.
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post #3430 of 3607 Old 03-08-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDLBox View Post

UPDATE - IT WORKED! I guess you don't have to be too scientific to re-flow these things - just getting them up near 400F seems to do the trick in re-wetting the solder. I'll give it a few days and then slap heatsinks on.

Congratulations!

I will admit that i actually purchased two more TX-SR707 on ebay with the no-sound issue and have refurbished both of them. Mostly.

My original unit continues to be trouble-free but i re-flowed it probably 5 times.

I've got one I'm testing in the bedroom that needed 1 reset after two weeks. So i need to give it some more searing hot love.

The third needs further testing. It works but I'll install it at my parents' house when it's been working reliably for weeks.
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post #3431 of 3607 Old 03-09-2012, 09:44 PM
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Just wanted to give Chris Sweden a big thanks on the oven idea. I tried it as a last resort and it worked perfectly. Pre heat oven to 460F degrees. Once preheated level the HDMI Board, place in oven and set timer for 6 minutes. Let board air cool in the oven on its own. I feel this might be better than the heat gun option. You are able to track and regulate the temp. I did wrap the plastic conectors in foil just as a precautionary measure. Been working great for 1 week.
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post #3432 of 3607 Old 03-10-2012, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bcdbaker View Post

Just wanted to give Chris Sweden a big thanks on the oven idea.

Don´t thank me, thank the 14-18 yrs computer-gamers That´s where I found out about the method. I´m happy that forwarding ideas can help other "partnersincrime".
Now going for almost 4 weeks and still perfect, the comp.fan that i put inside seems to be good too. If one of the kids turn on the system it gets really hot. I have now instructed them how to turn everything on.
I have found that just about ALL XXX7-models have the same problem, even the 5007. Sadly for those owners, maybe should pass on the info to them aswell.
Have a nice weekend all of you!
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post #3433 of 3607 Old 03-12-2012, 07:08 PM
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The service center replaced the HDMI card.

The unit is working again.

I am sure it will die again when out of warranty.
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post #3434 of 3607 Old 03-12-2012, 07:49 PM
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I just purchased a TX-SR707 on craigslist. The receiver had just been through a documented replacement of the HDMI board (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.)

I will be buying some heatsinks to put on the "problem chips." However, the seller told me something interesting. He said that he bought a new receiver due to the long repair time because his repair shop was waiting for a new HDMI board from Onkyo. No surprise there, but what was interesting is that he said the delay was due to Onkyo revising the design / manufacturing method of the Board. Has anyone else heard this to be the case? Perhaps a new soldering method or new metallurgy of solder is being used in the new batch of boards.

Or, perhaps this is all wishful thinking.
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post #3435 of 3607 Old 03-15-2012, 01:54 PM
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Does anyone have an older firmware for tx-sr707? Updated mine from 1.14 to 1.27. Update went fine, but for some reason there is no sound. Otherwise the receiver seems to work fine.

Would like to try an older one to get things working again...
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post #3436 of 3607 Old 03-16-2012, 02:17 AM
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Well chalk up another 707 user with no sound. Just came home tonight and my girlfriend tells me no sound from the HTPC. Did some checking and later some Googling and here I am. Page after page of people with the same problem. I bought mine back in Nov09 so I'm out of warranty.

I've tried turning it on and off and unplugging it, nothing. I'll probably just buy a used board off eBay. First and last time I'll be buying a Onkyo product.
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post #3437 of 3607 Old 03-16-2012, 12:44 PM
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for all those folks here that are out of warranty you should still call Onkyo. My 707 is 4 months past warranty and Onkyo provided me with a 1-time free service exception due to this issue.

They opened an internal ticket, sent me the shipping info for the nearest service center. I sent it in and just got word it's coming back next week.

I've bought/owned Onkyo gear for over 20 years and never had an issue with any of their products till now. I was skeptical of how they would respond based on comments on this thread, but I'm ok with my specific case handling at this time.

Now if the new board blows up on me then I'll post it here and likely move to another vendor. But for now I'm giving them a chance based on the quality they've shown in the past.
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post #3438 of 3607 Old 03-16-2012, 04:12 PM
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Got the 1.18 firmware, but that didn't help out as the receiver seems to be unable to detect a PCM signal. It does show that the optical cable is connected. If I try to update I only get "Error 0-12". I do get picture and I can access menus and so on, so it would seem that one of the DSPs died.

I actually got the no sound problem after 2 years and 4 months. Tried to get it serviced under warranty, but I was told that Onkyo Europe would only accept it if it was within 2 years and 1 month.

Anyways I got a new HDMI board and along with it software version 1.14. It does have some problems, so I tried to update to 1.27 and that is when things went wrong.

Hard to say if it was the update or did the hardware just fail again. I did also get that "Error 0-12" once when I tried to do the 1.27 update. For the 1.27 update I followed the instructions that came along with it. The only point that I might failed the update was when I powered off the receiver just by pushing the standby button. I probably should have unplugged it.

Well the repair wasn't too expensive for me and now I'm thinking about buying TX-NR709. Anyone know if the quality is any better then with 707?
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post #3439 of 3607 Old 03-16-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-bert View Post

for all those folks here that are out of warranty you should still call Onkyo. My 707 is 4 months past warranty and Onkyo provided me with a 1-time free service exception due to this issue.

They opened an internal ticket, sent me the shipping info for the nearest service center. I sent it in and just got word it's coming back next week.

I've bought/owned Onkyo gear for over 20 years and never had an issue with any of their products till now. I was skeptical of how they would respond based on comments on this thread, but I'm ok with my specific case handling at this time.

Now if the new board blows up on me then I'll post it here and likely move to another vendor. But for now I'm giving them a chance based on the quality they've shown in the past.

Are you in Europe? The post below your says only in Europe would they do something like that, at least for him they said that.

Funny how mine is 4 months past its 2 year warranty as well.

I tried calling today but I work nights and get up late in the afternoon. I'd forgot about the whole different time zone thing so I'll call tomorrow and see what they say.
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post #3440 of 3607 Old 03-21-2012, 03:47 PM
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I had the same issue and had bought mine around Nov '09. I called Onkyo and they granted me a warranty repair since i was on the border line (Feb 2012). After receiving my 707 back from repair, it had the same issue. Sent it back again and received it back last week and had the same issue again (all in the span of a month). Just talked to the repair center today and they said Onkyo has released a Bulletin about a new firmware update that is suppose to solve this issue. The bulletin and firmware update were just released a couple days ago supposedly.
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post #3441 of 3607 Old 03-22-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ashdatank View Post

I had the same issue and had bought mine around Nov '09. I called Onkyo and they granted me a warranty repair since i was on the border line (Feb 2012). After receiving my 707 back from repair, it had the same issue. Sent it back again and received it back last week and had the same issue again (all in the span of a month). Just talked to the repair center today and they said Onkyo has released a Bulletin about a new firmware update that is suppose to solve this issue. The bulletin and firmware update were just released a couple days ago supposedly.

How is a firmware update going to fix hardware issues? Not calling you out on this or attacking, just wondering. It's like having having the Red Ring of Death and Microsoft telling you to install a firmware upgrade to stop your device from overheating.
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post #3442 of 3607 Old 03-22-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sistum Id View Post

How is a firmware update going to fix hardware issues? Not calling you out on this or attacking, just wondering. It's like having having the Red Ring of Death and Microsoft telling you to install a firmware upgrade to stop your device from overheating.

My thoughts exactly. I 2nd that comment..... Firmware doesn't sound like a fix for the known hardware problem. Perhaps the new firmware shuts down the receiver when the hdmi board gets too hot?? But that would shut down the receiver right?
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post #3443 of 3607 Old 03-22-2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by howardru View Post

My thoughts exactly. I 2nd that comment..... Firmware doesn't sound like a fix for the known hardware problem. Perhaps the new firmware shuts down the receiver when the hdmi board gets too hot?? But that would shut down the receiver right?

I spent enough time in embedded systems testing (admittedly 12 years ago) to say: Unlikely but not outside the realm of possibility.

There might be a firmware method of making the issue less apparent. Maybe adding some re-tries to an initialization routine or something. Perhaps some code executed at power up fails the first 50 times or so when the board starts to flake out so they just try 100 times before giving up. You would be shocked and dismayed by the shenanigans required to bootstrap some chips.

It's possible that there is a link that just has really high impedance on the failed boards, and it's possible to modify a waveform for higher amplitude to overcome the issue.

But i remain skeptical.
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post #3444 of 3607 Old 03-23-2012, 07:24 AM
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The potential for a firmware fix is moot regardless since Onkyo's web site doesn't list a fix for the SR707, at least when I last looked (3-22-2012).

Rick
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post #3445 of 3607 Old 03-23-2012, 08:31 AM
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The first time i had this issue, the receiver wouldn't come back to normal after doing a master reset. Now the second and third time after the HDMI board was replaced, the receiver WOULD come back to outputting audio after doing a master reset. Sounds to me more like a firmware issue instead of hardware failure if it is able to come back to normal after a reset.

Anyways the warranty repair center emailed me the following:

"I did check with my tech and your receiver will need to come back to us for the update.
The firmware update we need to perform is not available to consumers as it is only to be done after the HDMI board is replaced."
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post #3446 of 3607 Old 03-24-2012, 10:27 AM
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I think this is a firmware issue as well. I'm getting the exact same behavior and I just got mine back from the service center with the new HDMI board.

After a reset upon power up the sound works just fine. Once I set the RIHD to "on" with the power setting to "on" and the TV control to "off" (so it does HDMI pass-thru properly with the receiver off) I can no longer get sound from the receiver speakers. However the TV speakers work fine.

If I change this setting back by turning off RIHD completely and resetting the receiver the sound works fine through the receiver.

Clearly the firmware can't toggle the chipset to terminate the audio codecs locally. Or the firmware isn't getting the HDMI negotiations to work properly to adjust the sound without a hard reset of the unit.

Onkyo should really acknowledge this and post up the firmware. Making everyone pay shipping charges multiple times is just unfair.
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post #3447 of 3607 Old 03-24-2012, 10:30 AM
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apologies to Sistum. I just saw your post about my location, I am in the USA.
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post #3448 of 3607 Old 03-24-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-bert View Post

I think this is a firmware issue as well. I'm getting the exact same behavior and I just got mine back from the service center with the new HDMI board.

After a reset upon power up the sound works just fine. Once I set the RIHD to "on" with the power setting to "on" and the TV control to "off" (so it does HDMI pass-thru properly with the receiver off) I can no longer get sound from the receiver speakers. However the TV speakers work fine.

If I change this setting back by turning off RIHD completely and resetting the receiver the sound works fine through the receiver.

Clearly the firmware can't toggle the chipset to terminate the audio codecs locally. Or the firmware isn't getting the HDMI negotiations to work properly to adjust the sound without a hard reset of the unit.

Onkyo should really acknowledge this and post up the firmware. Making everyone pay shipping charges multiple times is just unfair.

I don't think so.

There remains the possibility that onkyo is replacing hdmi boards with remanufactured hdmi boards, and it's possible that they are not sufficiently testing the remanufactured boards. just like that jerk on ebay.

It appears from the experience of myself and others that both of the BGA chips on the board may become problematic - maybe yours has the audio dsp reflowed but not the hdmi controller.

There was at least one person who says they had to have their preamp board replaced as well.

we're dealing with lead-free solder here, and it turns out that there are some things lead is really good at that are hard to mimic with mixtures of other metals.
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post #3449 of 3607 Old 03-25-2012, 09:02 PM
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Firmware has nothing to do with this. Its not as if these receivers are hooked up to the internet getting monthly updates. It is what it is out of the box. Something that works for 20+ months problem free, then all of a sudden has no sound is a mechanical failure. The only thing an updated firmware will do is maybe add a new look, or new feature, or maybe allow some internal processing to flow smoother.
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post #3450 of 3607 Old 03-25-2012, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bcdbaker View Post

Firmware has nothing to do with this. Its not as if these receivers are hooked up to the internet getting monthly updates. It is what it is out of the box. Something that works for 20+ months problem free, then all of a sudden has no sound is a mechanical failure. The only thing an updated firmware will do is maybe add a new look, or new feature, or maybe allow some internal processing to flow smoother.

There's an outside possibility that they found some power management functionality in the affected chips that they hadn't bothered to enable, which would allow the ST processor to maybe run cooler for example.

Just as a guess.

But yeah, this is an electromechanical issue. ROHS requirements have succeeded in making electronics less reliable.
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