Official Onkyo TX-SR707 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3608 Old 09-04-2009, 05:50 PM
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where do u plan on buying your 707 from , 4thought?
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post #92 of 3608 Old 09-04-2009, 07:41 PM
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Ok trying to find the right receiver. PLease help.
What would be the pros/cons....

thanks
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post #93 of 3608 Old 09-04-2009, 08:27 PM
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Has anyone had this issue with bi-amping the 707?

When bi-amped, the analog 2-channel CD input sounds fine using "Direct" mode, but sounds awful using "Stereo" mode, with significant loss/degradation of especially the treble.

I suspect that the 707 processor has a flaw which causes it to drop the SURR BACK / ZONE 2 (/Bi-Amp) channels entirely when set to bi-amp and CD input & "Stereo" mode.

Why does this matter, you may ask?

The "Direct" mode does not output to subwoofer at all (2.0). To get 2.1 (2 channel +subwoofer) output with 2-channel analog CD input, "Stereo" mode is necessary. However, as stated, "Stereo" mode does not work properly on this unit with 2-channel analog CD input.

My Klipsch RF-3 mains are good down to ~37Hz, but my sub extends down to the 20's. I think an $800 receiver should be capable to sending the lows to a sub, when playing analog 2-channel CD.

Any info appreciated.

********* EDIT **********

Both the Front channels and the Surr/Back (/Bi-Amp) channels are working when doing CD/Stereo analog 2-channel input mode while bi-amped.

However: The sound quality is degraded significantly in this mode, vs. either (a) non-bi-amp + CD/Stereo, or (b) bi-amp + CD/Direct.

And: The non-bi-amp + CD/Stereo sound also sounds slightly worse than non-bi-amp + CD/Direct mode.

Methinks maybe the 707 processor degrades the signal, in CD/Stereo mode which splits the signal into subwoofer line-level output and speaker-level outputs, per assigned low-pass crossover freq for subs. (As opposed to Direct mode, which does not process the signal and does not generate a subwoofer output.)

Its hard to tell affect of the processor on multi-channel digital signal from e.g. DVDs, but it sounds like it may also degrade those source signals (vs. Direct mode).

Anyone else have this issue?
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post #94 of 3608 Old 09-04-2009, 10:13 PM
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I have been looking to upgrade my current Onkyo 605, and have been looking at the 707 as a candidate, and I see it has 2 sub outputs, and I was actually considering setting up zone 2 to be for my PC in another room and was hoping to run a 2.1 system using zone 2 and the second sub out. The manual does not mention use of the second sub out with zone 2. Can anyone confirm if zone 2 can be set up to use a sub?
Thanks
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post #95 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 01:49 AM
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no sub for zone 2
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post #96 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowhunter View Post

I have been looking to upgrade my current Onkyo 605, and have been looking at the 707 as a candidate, and I see it has 2 sub outputs, and I was actually considering setting up zone 2 to be for my PC in another room and was hoping to run a 2.1 system using zone 2 and the second sub out. The manual does not mention use of the second sub out with zone 2. Can anyone confirm if zone 2 can be set up to use a sub?
Thanks

It has 2 sub outputs, so you could run one output to Zone 2 and use the other for the main listening area sub. But both outputs are said to be the same signal (mono/combined sub), so both will get sub output whether you use Zone 2 or not.
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post #97 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tafkat View Post

Has anyone had this issue with bi-amping the 707?

When bi-amped, the analog 2-channel CD input sounds fine using "Direct" mode, but sounds awful using "Stereo" mode, with significant loss/degradation of especially the treble.

I suspect that the 707 processor has a flaw which causes it to drop the SURR BACK / ZONE 2 (/Bi-Amp) channels entirely when set to bi-amp and CD input & "Stereo" mode.

Why does this matter, you may ask?

The "Direct" mode does not output to subwoofer at all (2.0). To get 2.1 (2 channel +subwoofer) output with 2-channel analog CD input, "Stereo" mode is necessary. However, as stated, "Stereo" mode does not work properly on this unit with 2-channel analog CD input.

My Klipsch RF-3 mains are good down to ~37Hz, but my sub extends down to the 20's. I think an $800 receiver should be capable to sending the lows to a sub, when playing analog 2-channel CD.

Any info appreciated.

Have you tried the other listening modes indicated on page 71 and 72 of the manual? These pages show which modes are available for 5.1 setups when listening to stereo content. Also, I think we can assume you have configured the unit for bi-amp fronts by following the directions on page 47. However, that might be something to check
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post #98 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

where do u plan on buying your 707 from , 4thought?

I'm in the Toronto area, and I'm looking for a good dealer. I'd like to find somewhere with a nice setup so I can listen to it. Price is $999CDN on local web sites around here.
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post #99 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 07:35 AM
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bummer about zone 2 and sub usage. So if I am understanding tafkat correctly, if it sounds like if i had zone 1 and 2 active at the same time, because it is a mono sub out just copied, it would have zone 1 sound on both sub 1 an sub 2 regardless. Just out of curiosity can anyone think of a similar receiver that would allow for 2 independent sub outputs?

Anyway really wanted to post that as of this morning Newegg.com dropped their price since last night. It is now $649 with free shipping. I am about ready to pull the trigger if the sale of my 605 goes through.
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post #100 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Have you tried the other listening modes indicated on page 71 and 72 of the manual? These pages show which modes are available for 5.1 setups when listening to stereo content. Also, I think we can assume you have configured the unit for bi-amp fronts by following the directions on page 47. However, that might be something to check

Yes, have tried the other listening modes. It is difficult to compare 2.0 Direct CD with other modes that add center channel and simulated surround etc. for the 2-channel CD input.

But comparing (a) 2.0 Direct CD with (b) 2.1 Stereo CD is straightforward: The 2.0 is just Front L/R direct and unprocessed, and the 2.1 is just Front L/R + SW (processed). And I can hear a huge degradation in sound quality with the 2.1 Stereo CD (processed).

All bi-amp setup etc. has been done correctly according to the manual.

Edit: The CD Stereo mode sound quality degradation (vs. CD Direct) is noticeable even when not bi-amped. But it is MORE degraded when bi-amped.

I think this thing just has a crap processor. Or there is a defect in HW or SW/firmware.
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post #101 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 08:13 AM
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Can you describe the 'degradation' a bit?

Do you have a 5.1 speaker configuration or do you have 2.1?

Did you run Audyssey?

Are your fronts configured for full band?

Have you changed any configurations for double bass?
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post #102 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Can you describe the 'degradation' a bit?

Sound is muddy. Loses definition, both treble and bass are lost and overall it becomes somewhat garbled sounding.

It's like listening to a cheap boombox or something.

By comparison, the CD Direct mode is quite clear-sounding, with clear bass and treble and more apparent power and full-bandwidth clarity. (It sounds like it should.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Do you have a 5.1 speaker configuration or do you have 2.1?

3.1: Front L/R, Center, Sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Did you run Audyssey?

Audyssey will not run when 707 is bi-amped. (At least, not this one.) So I ran it first without bi-amping, then connected and configured bi-amping. The CD Stereo mode produces the same degraded output sound quality whether Audyssey was run first or not.

Interestingly, the CD Stereo mode is also slightly degraded sound quality (vs. CD Direct) when running normal Front L/R hookup (not bi-amped), but the degradation is much worse when bi-amped. This makes me suspect the processor, which appears to degrade the sound quality in CD Stereo mode in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Are your fronts configured for full band?

No, Fronts and Center are configured for 80Hz crossover (THX default).

Of course, this is bypassed when running CD Direct mode, which only sends full output (no processing, no crossover) to Front L/R.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Have you changed any configurations for double bass?

Double-bass is not available if Fronts are not set to "Full Band". (Mine are set to 80Hz) I don't want Double-Bass; I want to divide the bass between SW and the other speakers, not double it.
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post #103 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 10:41 AM
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I'd maybe try a hard reset on the unit.

Quote:


To reset the AV receiver to its factory defaults,
turn it on and, while holding down the [VCR/DVR]
button, press the [ON/STANDBY] button. “Clear”
will appear on the display and the AV receiver will
enter Standby mode.

This time skip Audyssey, manually set your cross overs on the 3 speakers you have and be sure to set the others to none. See if it makes a difference.

I only have suggestions and not answers so hopfully you find its a configuration issue and not a defect. It's hard for me to believe it's a defect, but it's possible. Don't give up trying.
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post #104 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

I'd maybe try a hard reset on the unit.



This time skip Audyssey, manually set your cross overs on the 3 speakers you have and be sure to set the others to none. See if it makes a difference.

I only have suggestions and not answers so hopfully you find its a configuration issue and not a defect. It's hard for me to believe it's a defect, but it's possible. Don't give up trying.

Good idea.

I tried resetting the unit and reconfiguring with no Audyssey, but this made no improvement to CD Stereo mode sound quality problem.

If anyone else is bi-amping, would appreciate hearing if you have the same problem with CD Stereo mode.

TIA...
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post #105 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 11:42 AM
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Did you set the other channels to none?
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post #106 of 3608 Old 09-05-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Did you set the other channels to none?

Correct, other channels set to "none".

Just using Front L/R (bi-amped), Center, Sub.

I sent a support request message to Onkyo, we'll see how they respond.

(If they blow me off like I predict they will, I may just take the unit back to the retailer for refund. This is why I prefer buying from local retailer - just in case.)
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post #107 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 07:46 AM
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I just ordered the 180 based on some excellent pricing. It was as low as I could find for the 707.

The RC180 is a bit of an odd creature. It appears to be a slightly stripped 807.

Compared to the 807 the 180 seems to be missing 1 HDMI input, RS232 and RI control lines, +12V trigger for zones 2/3 and Sirius integration. The 180 is rated at 110W vs 135W of the 807 but based on weight appears to share the beefier components.

Compared to the 707 the 180 is missing 1 HDMI input, RS232 and RI control lines, +12V trigger for zones 2 and Sirius integration. On the other hand it has a beefier amp, provides net access for internet radio and firmware updates and an extra zone.

Have I missed anything? If you are not connecting to an elaborate home automation system and not using Sirius, is there any reason not to choose the 180 over the 707 at the same pricing level?

Thanks,
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post #108 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 08:53 AM
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Where did you pick up the 180?
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post #109 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 09:09 AM
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FWIW: I picked up a 707 for $650 out the door from a local authorized retailer.

If these units are upgraded through RS232 then not having one could put you at a disadvantage if for some reason you need something like that.

Being this is a 707 thread I'll go off topic and say I think if you like the 180 you can get the 807 for a similar price. The other day using Bing cashback I was seeing 15% cashback on the unit from at least one retailer.
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post #110 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmluss View Post

Where did you pick up the 180?

Tiger Direct w 15% Bing cashback
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post #111 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

FWIW: I picked up a 707 for $650 out the door from a local authorized retailer.

If these units are upgraded through RS232 then not having one could put you at a disadvantage if for some reason you need something like that.

Being this is a 707 thread I'll go off topic and say I think if you like the 180 you can get the 807 for a similar price. The other day using Bing cashback I was seeing 15% cashback on the unit from at least one retailer.

The 180 and 807 upgrade over the net through the Ethernet port. The RS232 port is not needed to upgrade these units. I have found the 180 at the price of the 707 using the 15% Bing cashback but I have not been able to find the 807 in that price range.
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post #112 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 10:22 AM
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Yes, you are right. I overlooked the ethernet upgrade aspect.

I saw the 807 at tiger direct with bing 15% cashback. Since you weren't stating prices it's hard to make sense of what you are trying to really say... so I added the screen shots to show the value proposition of the HT180 (with bing 15%)
LL
LL
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post #113 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Yes, you are right. I overlooked the ethernet upgrade aspect.

I saw the 807 at tiger direct with bing 15% cashback. Since you weren't stating prices it's hard to make sense of what you are trying to really say... so I added the screen shots to show the value proposition of the HT180 (with bing 15%)

Thanks. I was just saying that HT180 (including cashback) is at the same price as the 707 deals I have seen, so it seems like it made sense to purchase the 180. The 807 nets out to be $166 more than the HT180 which may be well worth it if you need the extra power and upscaling for component out. If the RS232 home automation, Sirius support and 12v zone trigger are important than you would lean towards the 707 vs HT180.

I just wanted to see if I was missing some deals that were bringing the 707 even lower in price or if I was missing something in the feature deltas between the models.

Thanks
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post #114 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 10:56 AM
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No doubt. I think given the comparison of screen shots and the current street price of the 707 I think there is a lot of value in the 180. Had I not valued buying local (in case of issues etc) for another ~$50 over the 707 adding ethernet would be hard to turn down. I have a squeezebox for streaming, but ethernet firmware upgrades are attractive.

I think you made a good choice.
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post #115 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 12:57 PM
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707 bi-amp CD Stereo mode update:

I implemented a workaround to enable bi-amp CD "Direct" mode with Front L/R + subwoofer, to have sub functionality for 2-channel CD without using the degraded-quality 707 CD "Stereo" mode.

So, may keep the 707 after all...

The workaround uses the sub's L/R inputs set at 40Hz lowpass connected to 707 Front L/R pre-out RCAs, with 707 Front L/R set to "Full" (band), in conjunction with the LFE channel from 707 LFE to sub LFE (no filter); 707 Double-bass "off". This yields Front L/R above ~40 spoken by mains, Front L/R below ~40 spoken by sub, when running "Direct" mode. (And LFE spoken by sub via LFE input in any case where 707 outputs LFE.)

FWIW, for anyone else who runs into this problem...
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post #116 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 07:37 PM
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From the pictures I have not seen a switched AC outlet on the 707, HT180 or 807. Isn't this an odd omission?

I want to have a fan that kicks on when the receiver is active. Any suggestions?

Thanks.
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post #117 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 07:54 PM
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any hot deals on the 707 yet guys? I can get the 707 for $685 from ABT Electronics, shipped and no tax. seems a lil too much still.. any deals u guys came accross ?
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post #118 of 3608 Old 09-06-2009, 08:26 PM
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Hello lamonsasa...newegg.com has it on their website for $649 with free shipping and no tax. They just lowered it Saturday afternoon.

Dave
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post #119 of 3608 Old 09-07-2009, 05:08 AM
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in Europe, for Hdmi comp issues (sometimes no display from Hdmi inputs) when a Tx-SRxx7 is connected to a¨Panasonic HD G or V series Viera, the Pana has to be updated (the FW is online now) this resolves the issue (i had the problem with Tx-SR707 and TX-P42V10E, this was resolved after the upgrade - FW 2011) - the problem has been mentioned on the Onkyo.eu site
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post #120 of 3608 Old 09-07-2009, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstea View Post

From the pictures I have not seen a switched AC outlet on the 707, HT180 or 807. Isn't this an odd omission?

I want to have a fan that kicks on when the receiver is active. Any suggestions?

Thanks.

If you are thinking of using a fan to cool the 707, this shouldn't be necessary imo.

The 707 I'm currently testing only gets slightly warm, even when cranked at higher volumes for extended time. No fan necessary in 70 F room.

(For comparison, the TX-SR507 I tried ran very hot, even while idling. This hot-running 507 issue is echoed by others posting on forums. That was one reason I returned the 507.)
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