*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 11:05 AM
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As stated on their website, US Appliance is a division of ABC Warehouse. ABC Warehouse is listed on the Denon Authorized On-line vendor website under Specialty Stores.

A "B" set of speakers would generally be used in the same room as the "A" speakers for when you have a second set of speakers that are used strictly for music listening. When switched to "B", the "A" speakers would be OFF.

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post #272 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 11:29 AM
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I have a question about multi-zone vs. A-B switching. I realize that A-B switching is generally used with multiple sets of speakers in the same room, but can it be used for a "second zone"?

Here's my setup: a typical home theater setup with 5.1 surround, with 2 speakers on my balcony for listening to music while smoking a cigar or relaxing outside. I can't think of a scenario where both the TV and outside zones would need to operate simultaneously, so the fact that switching to B would shut off all the other speakers is not a problem for me. What would be the best way to set up this balcony "zone"? Do I make it zone2 or make it speakers B?
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post #273 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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the advantage of Zone 2 is that you get to control the source, the volume, and the power on/off independently from Main Zone. the disadvantage is that it's analog-only (requiring extra cabling).

the advantage of "B" speakers is that they just duplicate the signal from the fronts, so no need for analog-only hookup. So, if you will NEVER need to have independent volume/source control for your extra pair of speakers, there isn't much downside to using the "B" speakers.

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post #274 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:04 PM
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Thanks batpig!

What do you mean by analog-only? I plan to run only speaker wire to the outside speakers, so I'm not concerned with the L/R RCA out for zone 2. Or am I missing something here?

Also, I have an RF capable universal remote to control the receiver when I'm outside, so I also don't have to worry about any remote issues.
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post #275 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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the point is that only analog INPUTS will be sent out to Zone 2. The receiver will not "downconvert" a digital audio input and output to Zone 2. So any device that you want to pipe to the outside speakers would require a standard RCA (red/white) analog connection (from Source > Denon AVR) in addition to any digital audio connections.

See my FAQ for more info:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#multizone

also, on a side note, if you are using A/B switching you don't have have the Main Zone speakers turn off when you activate the "B" speakers. That is optional -- you can set it up so that the surround sound is playing in the Main Zone and the "B" speakers are also active (although both "A" and "B" speakers will be driven by the same amp unless you get jiggy with AMP ASSIGN and are only running 5.1... in which case you may as use use Zone 2). However the source and volume of the "B" speakers will always be tied to the Main Zone ("A") speakers.

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post #276 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:11 PM
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If I recall, the 1910 doesn't take an RF signal. You have to run an external IR receiver and plug it into the back of the receiver if you want to operate the volume or anything else from a different room.
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post #277 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm assuming his RF remote has some sort of IR converter or "blaster" system...

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post #278 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the advantage of Zone 2 is that you get to control the source, the volume, and the power on/off independently from Main Zone. the disadvantage is that it's analog-only (requiring extra cabling).

If trying to avoid the advantage of "B" speakers is that they just duplicate the signal from the fronts, so no need for analog-only hookup. So, if you will NEVER need to have independent volume/source control for your extra pair of speakers, there isn't much downside to using the "B" speakers.

I believe a word of caution is in order for unorthodox setups. As jd pointed out, in an orthodox setup, if you have your Main Speakers wired to "A" and another set of, say, dedicated 2 Ch listening speakers in the same room, you'd wire those to B. You would chose either A or B, not both.

If speakers are set up in another room as a pseudo Z2 and are wired to "B", one may be tempted to, but should not, select "A+B", as you have just reduced the total impedence shown to the front channel amps by essentially wiring the speakers in parallel. Ex: if A=8 Ohms and B=8 Ohms Total resistance is 4 Ohms. Running at R<6Ohms is warned about in the 1910 manual p12.

I believe a work-around would be to select "A Biamp" in the AVR , leave the A's in their nl hookup and wire the other set of speakers to the unused rear surround (now biamp=duplicate of Front) channels. You again lose the Z2 advantages, as bp cited for using "B" speaker terminals ("control the source, the volume, and the power on/off independently from Main Zone") but you use 2 other amps and run no low-impedence risk.

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post #279 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:18 PM
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Has anyone ever tried to get BestBuy to price match a price from 6ave when it is discounted through an email? Does it have to be advertised on their website? The dilemma I have is that I have $200 in BB Gift Cards so I would like to buy from there.... 6ave quoted me at $481.
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post #280 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the point is that only analog INPUTS will be sent out to Zone 2. The receiver will not "downconvert" a digital audio input and output to Zone 2. So any device that you want to pipe to the outside speakers would require a standard RCA (red/white) analog connection (from Source > Denon AVR) in addition to any digital audio connections.

See my FAQ for more info:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#multizone

also, on a side note, if you are using A/B switching you don't have have the Main Zone speakers turn off when you activate the "B" speakers. That is optional -- you can set it up so that the surround sound is playing in the Main Zone and the "B" speakers are also active (although both "A" and "B" speakers will be driven by the same amp unless you get jiggy with AMP ASSIGN and are only running 5.1... in which case you may as use use Zone 2). However the source and volume of the "B" speakers will always be tied to the Main Zone ("A") speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I believe a word of caution is in order for unorthodox setups. As jd pointed out, in an orthodox setup, if you have your Main Speakers wired to "A" and another set of, say, dedicated 2 Ch listening speakers in the same room, you'd wire those to B. You would chose either A or B, not both.

If speakers are set up in another room as a pseudo Z2 and are wired to "B", one may be tempted to, but should not, select "A+B", as you have just reduced the total impedence shown to the front channel amps by essentially wiring the speakers in parallel. Ex: if A=8 Ohms and B=8 Ohms Total resistance is 4 Ohms. Running at R<6Ohms is warned about in the 1910 manual p12.

I believe a work-around would be to select "A Biamp" in the AVR , leave the A's in their nl hookup and wire the other set of speakers to the unused rear surround (now biamp=duplicate of Front) channels. You again lose the Z2 advantages, as bp cited for using "B" speaker terminals ("control the source, the volume, and the power on/off independently from Main Zone") but you use 2 other amps and run no low-impedence risk.

Thanks guys. Sounds like my best (and easiest) option is a true Zone2 setup afterall, since my main music source (wireless music streaming system) is an analog connection anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthwhit View Post

If I recall, the 1910 doesn't take an RF signal. You have to run an external IR receiver and plug it into the back of the receiver if you want to operate the volume or anything else from a different room.

Quote:
I'm assuming his RF remote has some sort of IR converter or "blaster" system...

I have a Harmony 890 with the Wireless extender that I believe I can run a cable directly from there into the Denon room-to-room IR input port to control functions. This way I can avoid the little IR blasters altogether for this component.
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post #281 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks1839 View Post

Thanks guys. Sounds like my best (and easiest) option is a true Zone2 setup afterall, since my main music source (wireless music streaming system) is an analog connection anyway.

I would agree with this. And you never know when you might want to have the game on in Zone 1 with music out on the patio or something.... or even have music playing throughout (inside and outside) with guests over or something. Might as well maintain the flexibility of optional separate source/volume control.

I don't find the "analog only" restriction to be a big deal because most of the time your components are sitting right next to the receiver in a component rack or A/V console, so running an extra set of 2-ch RCA cables isn't a big deal. The biggest problem is for people who use the PS3 as a music server since it can't output multiple audio formats simultaneously.

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post #282 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 01:53 PM
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Does selecting the "B-speaker" turn all other speakers OFF, or does this option alow you to have 2 sets of fronts in a 5.1 system?
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post #283 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 03:01 PM
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Hi all,

Just want to confirm - the 1910 does not come with a second zone 2 remote control, right?

All the online specs & feature lists seem to include a second remote, but I got my 1910 yesterday with just the one main (nasty) remote. No mention of a second one in the manual or anything... I'm not missing anything, right?
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post #284 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dloose View Post

Does selecting the "B-speaker" turn all other speakers OFF, or does this option alow you to have 2 sets of fronts in a 5.1 system?

deja vu?! didn't we just finish discussing "B" speakers?

dloose, just read the last 10-15 posts

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post #285 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remig View Post

Hi all,

Just want to confirm - the 1910 does not come with a second zone 2 remote control, right?

All the online specs & feature lists seem to include a second remote, but I got my 1910 yesterday with just the one main (nasty) remote. No mention of a second one in the manual or anything... I'm not missing anything, right?

no, the 1910 does not come with a 2nd remote.

The 1909 did but apparently they dropped that. If you compare the online photos and manuals it is clear that they dropped it for this year. Looks like they restrict it to the "CI" models this year (2310CI and up).

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post #286 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by remig View Post

Hi all,Just want to confirm - the 1910 does not come with a second zone 2 remote control, right?

Owner's manual p2 "Accessories" lists what comes in the box.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #287 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

no, the 1910 does not come with a 2nd remote.

The 1909 did but apparently they dropped that. If you compare the online photos and manuals it is clear that they dropped it for this year. Looks like they restrict it to the "CI" models this year (2310CI and up).

Batbig, You have said this 1910 FAQ.

In the specific case of the 1910 vs. 790, the only differences (besides the cosmetics) is:

1. the 1910 includes a small, second remote intended for Zone 2 operation

Any idea???
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post #288 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for pointing that out, a lot of that was copy/pasted from 1909 thread. corrected now

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post #289 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I figured I'd post some clarification on the different ways you can configure the "B" speakers, as you have several options with the flexible Denon setup:

If you are using the "B" speakers for dedicated two-channel music, and want to automatically turn OFF the regular 5.1/7.1 setup when you engage "B" speakers:

Hook up your 2-channel speakers to "FRONT B" terminals, and set the FRONT SPEAKER SETUP (pg 27 of manual) to:

1. CUSTOM
2. DIRECT/STEREO = "B"
3. MULTI CH = "A"

With this arrangement, whenever you are in a multichannel mode (Dolby Digital, Pro Logic, Multi CH IN, etc.) the Denon will use the main 5.1/7.1 speakers (with Front "A"), and if you switch the receiver to "Stereo" or "Direct" mode, it will AUTOMATICALLY turn off all the speakers except for the two "B" speakers.

The "Speaker A/B" selector button will be deactivated with this setting, and the ONLY way to switch between "A" and "B" is by selecting Stereo/Direct vs. a multichannel mode. It will happen automatically, you no longer have manual control outside of selecting a Surround Mode.

With this setting, the big advantage is that you can independently control your speaker size / bass management settings for the "B" speakers by using the "2CH DIRECT/STEREO" menu if you have a dedicated 2CH music setup.


If you have two pairs of front speakers and want to manually switch between them:

Leave the FRONT SPEAKER SETUP on "Normal" mode, hook up your "B" speakers to "FRONT B". The "Speaker" button on the receiver will now be active for manual control and you can choose: "A" only, "B" only, or both "A+B" simultaneously (see pg 42 of the manual).

In this mode, the "B" speakers will share the same channel level / speaker size settings as the "A" speakers.

Note, however, that the "A" and "B" speaker posts share an amplifier, so if you try to run them at the same time you will be presenting a parallel load on the amps (as SoundofMind points out above) and will half your effective impedance.


(ALTERNATE OPTION) If you want to run A+B simultaneously and are only running 5.1:

If you are only running 5.1 and aren't using Zone 2, you can utilize the two spare SURR.BACK/AMP ASSIGN channels to power the "B" speakers.

Set AMP ASSIGN to "FRONTB BI-AMP".

1. Hook up "A" speakers to FRONT A
2. Hook up "B" speakers to SURR.BACK/AMP ASSIGN

The SURR.BACK amps will now power the "B" speakers separately from the "A" speakers, and can be switched on/off using the "Speakers" button on the unit.

Again, in this mode, the "B" speakers will share the same channel level / speaker size settings as the "A" speakers.

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post #290 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dloose View Post

Does selecting the "B-speaker" turn all other speakers OFF, or does this option alow you to have 2 sets of fronts in a 5.1 system?

Sorry for the confusion. Updated my post to correctly reflect it just turns off the "A" speakers. Sometimes it's tough to keep the different features of the various models in mind. On my 2808 I have an AMP ASSIGN setting of 2-CH which turns off all speakers except the "B" speakers for listening to stereo 2.0 music only.

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post #291 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibilance View Post


This has the features I want: 7.1, runs cooler than the Onkyo sets, auto speaker set up, Dolby Headphones, etc.

No mention of Dolby Headphone in the manual, just so you know.
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post #292 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

When I did the setup, I only did it once where I sit.

the seating area when watching the tv is set like "L" shape

3 seating on "I"
2 seating on "_" from this area I am facint the tv and actually do the the main watching.

Question do I do the Mult EQ from each sitting that is 5 setups or just once . tia

tHIS IS CONFUSING

I ran Mult EQ as explained

Step-A
1 middle of room ear height
2 2 ft left of middle of room
3 2 ft right of middle of room
4 2 ft in front of the middle of the room(step1)
5 2ft to the left of step 4
6 2ft to the right of step 4

Step-B
I kept on reading and shows me diagram where to place microphone that is where each seating place up to 6 positions.

Which is the good one Step-A or Step-B tia
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post #293 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

tHIS IS CONFUSING
I ran Mult EQ as explained
Which is the good one Step-A or Step-B tia
3

Hi frank, welcome. First read the Audyssey setup guide, if you have not done so:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

I suggest you sit as close to the stereo center "sweet spot" as possible (room & decorating constraints considered). Try a couple different mic patterns. Do not measure in each seat. My favorite for my room is:
Use where you sit for #1, measure in a tight (square, rectangular, whatever shaped) pattern with about 1' distances between positions.

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post #294 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi frank, welcome. First read the Audyssey setup guide, if you have not done so:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

I suggest you sit as close to the stereo center "sweet spot" as possible (room & decorating constraints considered). Try a couple different mic patterns. Do not measure in each seat. My favorite for my room is:
Use where you sit for #1, measure in a tight (square, rectangular, whatever shaped) pattern with about 1' distances between positions.

I have read it, but when I kept on reading and saw the diagrams it got me confused.

Like said my living room is rectangle but seating area is "L" shape my seating is "_" of the L.

So you say step -1 should be where I seat.

where should I the other 5 steps in the middle of the room like in Step-A. tia

Please be a little explicit.

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post #295 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I would agree with this. And you never know when you might want to have the game on in Zone 1 with music out on the patio or something.... or even have music playing throughout (inside and outside) with guests over or something. Might as well maintain the flexibility of optional separate source/volume control.

I don't find the "analog only" restriction to be a big deal because most of the time your components are sitting right next to the receiver in a component rack or A/V console, so running an extra set of 2-ch RCA cables isn't a big deal. The biggest problem is for people who use the PS3 as a music server since it can't output multiple audio formats simultaneously.

I have a ps3 and do use it on occasion for streaming music...

Wouldn't this scenario work? Run RCA's from the "DVR out" to "CD in" and as long as zone1 is on DVR, which would have to be the ps3, you could assign zone2 to be CD. Not sure if this works or not, has anyone tried it?
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post #296 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manizkrishnan View Post

Batbig, You have said this 1910 FAQ.

In the specific case of the 1910 vs. 790, the only differences (besides the cosmetics) is:

1. the 1910 includes a small, second remote intended for Zone 2 operation

Any idea???

1910 has dual source/dual zone audio and 790 does not.
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post #297 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

I have read it, but when I kept on reading and saw the diagrams it got me confused...So you say step -1 should be where I seat.where should I the other 5 steps in the middle of the room like in Step-A. tia Please be a little explicit.

frank, follow the Middle Cerebral Artery as it branches into the Temporal lobe...no, wait, this isn't brain surgery, that's another thread.

Section F of the Guide is pretty explicit. If you are within 2' of the back wall, use the pattern that extends to the sides and front, but not behind your head. I suggest you keep the entire "spread" of positions in a 3-4' radius spread around pos #1, keeping the other rules in mind. You want a sampling around your head, not necessarily "the middle of the room". Then check your results, listen to it and report back on how it sounds.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #298 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

Please be a little explicit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

My favorite for my room is:
Use where you sit for #1, measure in a tight (square, rectangular, whatever shaped) pattern with about 1' distances between positions.

He was very explicit. From your primary listening position (ie where you personally sit) measure 5 other positions roughly 1-2' from that position. You'll get better results by having a tighter pattern centered around the main listening position.

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post #299 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

No mention of Dolby Headphone in the manual, just so you know.

Only the top of the line AVR 5308 currently offers Dolby Headphone. It incorrectly shows up for the 1910 when you use the compare feature on their website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lzrdkng14 View Post

1910 has dual source/dual zone audio and 790 does not.

It actually does ... same as the 1910.

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post #300 of 9378 Old 06-15-2009, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

No mention of Dolby Headphone in the manual, just so you know.

Ah. The Denon comparison of the 1909 and 1910 listed it as a feature on both units. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Well, that isn't a deal breaker for me. I have a Pioneer DIR 1000 Dolby Headphone set.

As always, thanks for taking the time to read whatever I've posted above this signature.
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