*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum
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post #3091 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

My input sources are a cable HD-DVR that can do native mode from 480i all the way to 1080i.
My Samsung 50B650 I believe scales everything to 1080p.
My BR is 1080p.
I read that the chip in the 1910 is good other than with 1080i. My Samsung is reportedly good with upscaling 1080i. So I want to use the 1910's scaler for all cable input resolutions other than 1080i, where I would like it to be off.
Assuming I am correct about the 1910's scaler abilities.

you can't selectively apply the scaler to different resolutions. If you set the scaler at 1080p then everything will be scaled to 1080p.

I'm not sure why you think your TV would be better at 1080i but then not be able to handle all of the other resolutions fine. I would just let things pass through untouched to your TV.

One option, if you really think the Denon does better with 480i deinterlacing, is to set the scaler to 480p output for your cable box input. It won't "downscale" 720p and 1080i signals, so they will pass through untouched to your TV, but it will deinterlace 480i > 480p and then your TV has the easy task of scaling up the progressive signal.

I would try it a few ways and see what works best for you.

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post #3092 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 10:32 AM
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I'm interested in getting the 1910 (or maybe the 2310) and also had in mind the Energy RC-Micro 5.1 or the Mirage Nanosat 5.1 speaker system (space is an issue for me). But I was wondering that since the Nanosats are not exactly directional, how does Audyssey handle these types of speakers? Would it do better with more traditional speakers like Energy?

BTW ... this will be my very first AVR and surround system!
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post #3093 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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here is what Chris Kyriakakis (founder of Audyssey) said in the Audyssey thread:

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There isn't really anything special about dipole, bipole, or omnipole speakers as far as MultEQ is concerned. It still measures the sound arriving at the various mic locations and tries to combine those measurements to fix whatever acoustical issues it is finding. We have experimented with these types of speakers and the only possible issue that could arise is when there is a very big asymmetry in the placement. For example, one near a corner and the other with no walls next to it (e.g., when there is an adjacent room opening). In that case it is possible to have an uneven distribution of direct and reflected sound between the two speakers that could cause some issues.

in other words you will be fine. you may get a "phase error" when you run Audyssey because of a weird reflection but it's nothing to worry about.

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post #3094 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

here is what Chris Kyriakakis (founder of Audyssey) said in the Audyssey thread:

We have experimented with these types of speakers and the only possible issue that could arise is when there is a very big asymmetry in the placement. For example, one near a corner and the other with no walls next to it (e.g., when there is an adjacent room opening).

I may have this problem. The room this will be in is open on the left and a wall (with window) on the right. So the right speaker would be about maybe 4 feet or so from the wall/corner on the right but the left speaker would be about 15 feet or so from any wall on the left. Would this be a problem?

By the way ... anyone have a preference as to which they think is better? The Nanosats or the RC-Micros? I know, "better" may be subjective, but these 2 types of systems are radically different from each other, no? One is directional and one is not. (Not sure if these are really the proper terms, but you get the idea).
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post #3095 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 12:22 PM
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Waiting for longer HDMI cable to hook up my HDTV. In mean time trying to connect my TV with Component cable. But there is no picture at all. DVD sending a signal (I can hear the sound) but there is no picture no matter which HDMI input I am using. Also tried to change different cable to make sure cables are not failing me, but still no picture, just sound... ???
My setup: out of AVR - Component cable Monitor Out to HDTV Component1 IN
DVD player HDMI OUT to AVR HDMI DVD IN
I hope this unit is not defected...
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post #3096 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladGlad View Post

Waiting for longer HDMI cable to hook up my HDTV. In mean time trying to connect my TV with Component cable. But there is no picture at all. DVD sending a signal (I can hear the sound) but there is no picture no matter which HDMI input I am using. Also tried to change different cable to make sure cables are not failing me, but still no picture, just sound... ???
My setup: out of AVR - Component cable Monitor Out to HDTV Component1 IN
DVD player HDMI OUT to AVR HDMI DVD IN
I hope this unit is not defected...

No, the unit is not defective. It's just that the Denons convert to HDMI but do not convert from HDMI, probably to comply with HDCP. You can see this in the picture, pg 9 in the 790 manual. So if you are taking component out of the AVR, then you must feed component into the AVR.
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post #3097 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

No, the unit is not defective. It's just that the Denons convert to HDMI but do not convert from HDMI, probably to comply with HDCP. You can see this in the picture, pg 9 in the 790 manual. So if you are taking component out of the AVR, then you must feed component into the AVR.

Thanks so much for explaining. Have to wait for the HDMI cord to arrive in the mail then
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post #3098 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi natchie. First make sure your CC is working properly (listen up close to each driver) and is as well placed as it can be in your room. Ideally, it should be at ear level ( or at least pointed at your head) & not pushed back on a shelf. Near the floor is bad. If you move it, rerun Audyssey.

You can also try turning on DynVol, adjusted to the middle (Evening) setting. When there's normal dialog without all that other stuff, turn up the Vol until it's nice and clear.

You can also turn up the CC if you like.

Thanks SoM...I was trying to remember which dynamic program to use...will try it again and report it later.
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post #3099 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Bill Mitchell. If I understand correctly what you are seeing, then yes, 1-RCA and 2-RCA should correspond to COMP-1 and COMP-2.


Thanks Bill,

One thing at a time.

Quote:


When you have done this correctly, the Input Assign menu should show you in the third "Comp" column a 1 on the SAT/CBL line, saying you have associated COMP-1 with the SAT/CBL label.

You lost me here. Third "Comp" columm?

Quote:


As you are connecting the set over HDMI, you need to make sure the upscaler is on, although this should be true by default. At least the Video Select should be Source and i/p Scaler to Analog.

Yes HDMI. Upscaler is on and Video Select is Source and i/p Scaler is Analog.

Quote:


How are you connecting the audio? Are you connecting 2 channel audio over RCA plugs to the SAT/CBL analog audio input? If using digital audio, you will have to assign this, too. And the audio will not be passed over HDMI to your set. Are you hearing the current channel from the Scientific Atlanta box on your speakers?

I haven't connected the audio yet, waiting to get a picture first. But, yes I am planning to connect with digital from the box to the avr. And I will assign. But, whoa. audio will not pass over HDMI??? That's a problem.

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I assume when you see a dancing green screen, that is when you have left the menu, and you are seeing the on-screen menuing on your plasma set when you are in the menu.

Bill

P.S. Of course, you don't have to do this. I continue to connect my Scientific Atlanta box direct to the set with component, and run the audio only to the receiver over a digital audio connection

I haven't gotten past the green screen. No menu, nothing. So, unless I'm assigning improperly, there must be another problem.

But wait. This whole conversation may be mute by the last thing you said. The problem is this: My set is in one room and my components / avr is in another. I am trying to connect the set to the avr with HDMI because it is one cord vs, three + audio.

Are you saying that I can run my cable box into my tv, and run a digital audio out to my avr without having to mess with the HDMI at all? This would make my life much simpler. Is this is right?
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post #3100 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by jdsmoothieWhat unit do you have and is it USA? For USA models, those terms were used on 2009 and earlier models, however, were replaced by COMP-1, COMP-2, etc. in the 2010 models.
__________________


Sorry, yes I have a 790 in the U.S. Looks like my friends at Best Buy sold me last years model. I just bought this two weeks ago. Are there any differences between the models that are significant? Because if there are I'm taking this one back for a 2010.
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post #3101 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

Are you saying that I can run my cable box into my tv, and run a digital audio out to my avr without having to mess with the HDMI at all? This would make my life much simpler. Is this is right?

Yes, that is what he's saying. The best that the cable box can do is DD 5.1 so there's no loss in simply connecting the box to the AVR with either an optical or coax digital cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

Sorry, yes I have a 790 in the U.S. Looks like my friends at Best Buy sold me last years model. I just bought this two weeks ago. Are there any differences between the models that are significant? Because if there are I'm taking this one back for a 2010.

The 790 IS the 2010 model, but apparently you've got some software issues though if it's displaying RCA-1 and RCA-2. Not really a deal breaker though as they mean the same as COMP-1 and COMP-2.

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post #3102 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

...
You lost me here. Third "Comp" columm?
...
I haven't gotten past the green screen. No menu, nothing. So, unless I'm assigning improperly, there must be another problem.
...

It almost sounds as if your HDMI connection from the AVR to the set is not working. Or as if you need to select a particular Resolution for this Input, either 720p or 1080i, for the set to recognize the signal. When you press the menu button, the screen should go black and the on-screen display should appear. If that is not happening, then you have some problem between the AVR and the set, that has nothing to do with the cable box.

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Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

... I haven't connected the audio yet, waiting to get a picture first. But, yes I am planning to connect with digital from the box to the avr. And I will assign. But, whoa. audio will not pass over HDMI??? That's a problem. ...

HDMI audio in will pass out via HDMI, if you so choose in the HDMI Audio Out. But digital audio to the AVR is handled by the AVR itself; it does not re-encapsulate the audio as HDMI to the set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

...
But wait. This whole conversation may be mute by the last thing you said. The problem is this: My set is in one room and my components / avr is in another. I am trying to connect the set to the avr with HDMI because it is one cord vs, three + audio.

Are you saying that I can run my cable box into my tv, and run a digital audio out to my avr without having to mess with the HDMI at all? This would make my life much simpler. Is this is right?

Yes. Especially for a cable box, it is just as easy to connect it over digital audio to the AVR, and connect the component cables directly to the set. The only drawback is the need to use two remotes to switch sources, but that can be handled with a universal remote.

The only time one is forced to use HDMI is for something like bluray, that has HD audio. The newer HD audio codecs are protected similar to the HD 1080p images via HDCP. So to listen to the TrueHD audio, etc., you need to run HDMI to the AVR and from there to the TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

Sorry, yes I have a 790 in the U.S. Looks like my friends at Best Buy sold me last years model. I just bought this two weeks ago. Are there any differences between the models that are significant? Because if there are I'm taking this one back for a 2010.

One can be confused by the numbering. The 789/989/... models came out in 2008. The 790/1910/... models came out in mid 2009. jdsmoothie commented that the 1-RCA/2-RCA terms were used last year, but the COMP-1 and COMP-2 terms should be visible in this year's 790 model. But if you are not seeing the menus on your set, I don't know what labels the front panel shows if you are using it to do the Input Assign.

Bill
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post #3103 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Mitchell. It almost sounds as if your HDMI connection from the AVR to the set is not working. Or as if you need to select a particular Resolution for this Input, either 720p or 1080i, for the set to recognize the signal. When you press the menu button, the screen should go black and the on-screen display should appear. If that is not happening, then you have some problem between the AVR and the set, that has nothing to do with the cable box.

Thanks Bill,

Yes, I've tried different resolutions but will try that again. Barring that, is there anything else I can try to get my HDMI to work?? I have a Samsung 40" plasma. BTW, I did get a message that said "this mode not supported". That WAS a resolution problem. I changed the resolution and that message disappeared. So, a signal of sorts is being received from the avr. Could the run be too long for the HDMI cable? The cable I have is in two parts with a connector and total 50 feet long. Both cables are high speed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill MitchellThe only time one is forced to use HDMI is for something like bluray, that has HD audio. The newer HD audio codecs are protected similar to the HD 1080p images via HDCP. So to listen to the TrueHD audio, etc., you need to run HDMI to the AVR and from there to the TV.

That's fine because I can run my dvd out to the set with HDMI (provided I can get the handshake (or what ever) to work). At some point upgrade to bluray.

I'll try some more and get back to you.

Thanks also to jdsmoothie.
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post #3104 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

... Could the run be too long for the HDMI cable? The cable I have is in two parts with a connector and total 50 feet long. Both cables are high speed. ...

I was thinking something like that, but did not mention it. Most of us don't worry about buying high quality cables, as it only matters if you have a long cable length. But you do. And a connector in the middle could certainly add to the problem.
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post #3105 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
... Could the run be too long for the HDMI cable? The cable I have is in two parts with a connector and total 50 feet long. Both cables are high speed. ...

A 50" HDMI cable and a HDMI Extender maybe needed in your situation. Or HDMI Extender using Cat5e cable.
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New development. Now, for reasons unknown to me my tv input settings have ghosted my HDMI setting so that I cannot select it. I checked all of the connections, they're all good. Why now? What's different?

Scratch that. I got the green screen back and I have audio. But, I really need to figure this out for the dvd connection. Any help is appreciated.

Re: JChin, would a Cat5e cable be better than a HDMI Extender? I have a monster cable HDMI connector is that the same thing as an extender?

Last question, then I'll catch up tomorrow. If I run the digital audio out of the cable box to the AVR, can I still us the TV sound? Is there such a thing as a digital cable splitter? I'd like to avoid a long run from the box to the AVR and a second long run back to the tv.
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post #3107 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

New development. Now, for reasons unknown to me my tv input settings have ghosted my HDMI setting so that I cannot select it. I checked all of the connections, they're all good. Why now? What's different?

A poster in the 2310 thread had this happen as well with the TV input settings. He set HDMI Control to OFF and was able to select HDMI again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

Last question, then I'll catch up tomorrow. If I run the digital audio out of the cable box to the AVR, can I still us the TV sound? Is there such a thing as a digital cable splitter? I'd like to avoid a long run from the box to the AVR and a second long run back to the tv.

Yes you can still use the TV speakers. I'm not sure if you're now saying you'd move the cable box to the same room as the TV, but if yes, connect the cable box to the set with HDMI and digital audio to the AVR. You would simply mute the TV speakers when you wanted to use the surround speakers.

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post #3108 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi jeels. No, just about everyone around here runs Audyssey most all the time. Hard to say why the reviewers got that part about Audyssey so very wrong. Some audiophiles who have dedicated, acoustically treated rooms and very expensive speakers (tube-amp-all-analog types) prefer to forgo any digital processing. But for us regular folk, Audyssey room correction is unquestionably an excellent feature and the best value for your HT buck at this level of audio equipment and cost. It helps your speakers sound like they cost at least twice as much, creates a wonderful surround "bubble" and has Dynamic EQ which adds so much life and accuracy at lower listening levels.

Unfortunately, testing AVR's with room EQ in the store will not tell you what you need to know. I recommend you take one home, run autosetup and hear for yourself what it does for your speakers in your room.

Hi SoM, thanks for the info. Presumably, Audyssey would have a positive impact on a 3.1 system. I have Polk RT800i towers, Polk center and subwoofer, but no surrounds.

Still researching/deciding, and appreciate your response as part of my research.
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post #3109 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 07:52 PM
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Yes, of course it would. In fact batpig's audyssey comments are based on his own 3.1 setup.

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post #3110 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 08:40 PM
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Hi everyone, thanks for all the great info.
I just have some questions.
1) Does Audyssey set your subwoofer's EQ as well?
2) I have my surround speaker (-3dB Limits:135Hz-20kHz) crossover at 80Hz, would it damaged it or the frequency would simply be lost and not produced at all?

Thanks in advanced.
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post #3111 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

....Re: JChin, would a Cat5e cable be better than a HDMI Extender? I have a monster cable HDMI connector is that the same thing as an extender?.....

click on the links (in blue) to monoprice pages that JCHIN supplied you in his post above.

when you get to the monoprice pages be sure to click on the description, specifications and knowledge base tabs for usually excellent information that will probably answer all your questions. they are also very good at answering questions specific to your actual setup by phone or email.

you will see the extender is more than a simple connector....

iirc afaik fwiw imo
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post #3112 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

One can be confused by the numbering. The 789/989/... models came out in 2008. The 790/1910/... models came out in mid 2009. jdsmoothie commented that the 1-RCA/2-RCA terms were used last year, but the COMP-1 and COMP-2 terms should be visible in this year's 790 model.

Just as an FYI - I am starting at the GUI of my 2310 as I type this and, while it says "COMP" at the top of the column, it says "1-RCA", "2-RCA" when you actually make the assignment for any given input. So that is apparently still normal operation.

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post #3113 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevewerks View Post

Hi everyone, thanks for all the great info.
I just have some questions.
1) Does Audyssey set your subwoofer's EQ as well?
2) I have my surround speaker (-3dB Limits:135Hz-20kHz) crossover at 80Hz, would it damaged it or the frequency would simply be lost and not produced at all?

1) yes, and in fact it devotes most of its processing resources to the SW channel

2) did Audyssey set the 80Hz crossover or did you? Or are you just asking a theoretical question? To answer the question though, you probably wouldn't damage the speaker, it will naturally roll-off at the low end, so you will simply lose the frequencies that it can't produce.

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post #3114 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 11:12 PM
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Quick q in my quest to find a new receiver for our living room:
I'm considering the 1910 and a Yamaha 765. My setup is 5 Dali speakers w no sub. Never missed the sub as the fronts have two 6,5" elements to cope w both low and mid frequencies.

Will Audissey REQUIRE a sub to function properly? For several different reasons a sub has low WAF and is preferably a non-essential item.
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post #3115 of 9350 Old 11-23-2009, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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no, it doesn't REQUIRE a sub, but it definitely works better with one as you will lose the EQ correction of the lowest freq's. Audyssey will only EQ your speakers down to their measured roll-off, so it your speakers only get down to 55Hz you lose everything below that... but then again this is also true for your current non-Audyssey setup, and if you are happy with the bass currently it won't sound WORSE with Audyssey Dynamic EQ!

they do make very small subs for people who want a little extra oomph in the low end without taking up space. they won't do much of anything below 40Hz but they will definitely add some kick to the lowest octave.

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post #3116 of 9350 Old 11-24-2009, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Just as an FYI - I am starting at the GUI of my 2310 as I type this and, while it says "COMP" at the top of the column, it says "1-RCA", "2-RCA" when you actually make the assignment for any given input. So that is apparently still normal operation.

Good to know. Thanks. Once again the Owners manual is missing some helpful information, although good input for your guide though so as not to confuse folks.

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post #3117 of 9350 Old 11-24-2009, 05:26 AM
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I have AVR-1910 and Harmony One remote. Still waiting for Batpig's additional commands but have strange problem: Whenever I push UP or DOWN direction, it moves for TWO position! This is annoying in menus where I can't chose all options. Can anyone help? I didn't notice such behavior with other devices.
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post #3118 of 9350 Old 11-24-2009, 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by jdsmoothieYes you can still use the TV speakers. I'm not sure if you're now saying you'd move the cable box to the same room as the TV, but if yes, connect the cable box to the set with HDMI and digital audio to the AVR. You would simply mute the TV speakers when you wanted to use the surround speakers.

If the digital audio is run to the avr how does digital audio get to the tv speakers? Seems like there needs to be a connection from the cable box. (This is after having moved the box to where the tv is. ) OH, my cable box doesn't have HDMI so I am using component connections.

And, I have a new set of problems (of course). I cannot get the correct aspect ratio from the cable box using the component connectors, while using the cable directly into the tv works fine. The picture is sqeezed into 4:3 In addition, I cannot get the digital audio to work even though it is directly connected to the tv.

These seem like bone head problems so I apologize.
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post #3119 of 9350 Old 11-24-2009, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algecat3 View Post

If the digital audio is run to the avr how does digital audio get to the tv speakers? Seems like there needs to be a connection from the cable box. (This is after having moved the box to where the tv is. ) OH, my cable box doesn't have HDMI so I am using component connections.

And, I have a new set of problems (of course). I cannot get the correct aspect ratio from the cable box using the component connectors, while using the cable directly into the tv works fine. The picture is sqeezed into 4:3 In addition, I cannot get the digital audio to work even though it is directly connected to the tv.

These seem like bone head problems so I apologize.

Good idea to move to AVR nearer the TV to work through the other problems.

And why are you trying to get the digital audio to the TV speakers? I wondered about that, too, when you said the AVR had been in another room. The basic purpose of the AVR is to control a system with more than 2 speakers, or to power speakers external to the TV. So are you trying to forward the audio to the TV speakers only because you have not yet bought any other speakers? Are you trying to use the TV as your front speakers, while the AVR controls the surround speakers? Are you trying to use the TV speakers in addition to your other speakers because you like the idea of them reinforcing your front speakers? Or are you trying to use the TV speakers when the AVR is turned off or in standby mode, as an alternative to using your full set of speakers? Understanding what you are trying to do would help answer the question.

For example, in my system I run the digital audio from the cable box to the AVR for audio to reach my large front speakers. I run analog audio over RCA connectors direct to the TV, along with the component cables, so my wife can listen to the TV without turning on the AVR.

The aspect ratio is probably a configuration issue with the cable box. When you say the picture is squeezed to 4:3, does that mean you have pillar bars left and right?

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post #3120 of 9350 Old 11-24-2009, 08:25 AM
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I am down to the 1910 or the PIO 1019 (leaning 1910 due to this forum). I found a bundle package that puts the 1910 with a Boston Accoustics speaker set on Exlectronic Expo. The price is $1099.

http://www.electronics-expo.com/make...0BUNDLE/1.html

Below are the speakers it comes with (looks like 5.0; don't see dedicated sub).

CS 226 Floorstanding Speaker-(BSTCS226B)
CS 26 Bookshelf Speaker - (BSTCS26B)
CS 225C Center Channel Speaker - (BSTCS225B)

Can you experts give your thoughts on this deal? I don't have an AVR right now, but have researched a lot. Don't know about speakers. Only have Tube TV (sharp 32"), but looking to add sound first and then maybe tack on a HDTV next year when the prices on LED LCD's come down.

Other budget speaker suggestions to pair with 1910? Looking to spend < $600 on the speakers.
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