*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 03:09 PM
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sorry guys but i didnt see anything when i searched so ill just ask...just replaced an onkyo 706 with the denon 890. i have a directv hd dvr, xbox360, ps3 and wii. no problems at all with the onkyo but with the denon i have sparkles when using my ps3. i tryed changing all the setting on both the denon and ps3 but cant get them to go away. when the ps3 is in 1080i they arent there only in 1080p. still using all the same high quality cables and hooked up the exact same way. checked all my setting with my sammy 52b750 and still no love. anyone with any similar issues or any recommendations.
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post #632 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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Sure sounds like a cable issue to me...Try swapping out the cable with a known good one to verify...
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post #633 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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the 890 has a very powerful video processor, it should not have any issues with HDMI video whatsoever. If the sparkles persist after you have swapped out cables, played with the video processing settings, and tried a microprocessor reset, you should consider swapping the unit as it might be defective.

I guess I'll go start the 2310/890 owner's thread....

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post #634 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haaz17 View Post

sorry guys but i didnt see anything when i searched so ill just ask...just replaced an onkyo 706 with the denon 890. i have a directv hd dvr, xbox360, ps3 and wii. no problems at all with the onkyo but with the denon i have sparkles when using my ps3. i tryed changing all the setting on both the denon and ps3 but cant get them to go away. when the ps3 is in 1080i they arent there only in 1080p. still using all the same high quality cables and hooked up the exact same way. checked all my setting with my sammy 52b750 and still no love. anyone with any similar issues or any recommendations.


When you say sparkles you mean you get flashes if so. I was getting this from my cable input. connected the HDMI from Cable receiver to tv directly and no Flashes. But if I went throught the 1910 Receiver I would get occasional flashes. But not with the Ps3, I even swaped the Hdmi cables and no luck.

Than I noticed that the image of my tv was formated or zoomed by the cable receiver and not by the tv so I set the cable receiver format to normal and everything came to normal. No more flashes.

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post #635 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 06:43 PM
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So I was reading the comparison between the 1910 and the 790 on the denon website and "enhanced power amp assignment" is not checked on the 790. I read the first page of this thread and did not see an explanation. Searched this forum and am I correct in assuming that the 790 does not allow bi-wiring of front speakers?

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post #636 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 07:32 PM
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I have a question regarding bi-amping with the 1910. The way the manual describes bi-amping it sounds like they're describing horizontal bi-amping. Does the 1910 also support vertical bi-amping?
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post #637 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 07:45 PM
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I have a Samsung LN46B750 LCD TV, and I thought that the 2009 Samsungs had a much better scaler/deinterlacer than the 2008 or the competition, and was quite happy with it. Then I saw the picture with the 1910 doing the scaling on SD 480p material. The 1910's scaler is noticeably better at scaling, edges that would go jagged with the Samsung scaler are smoothed out with the 1910's scaler, without the rest of the picture being too soft.

Does anyone know how to "zoom" with the 1910's scaler? I've been looking all over for this, both on buttons and menus. Without such a feature, I'm stuck doing that using the scaler in my Samsung, which somewhat defeats the benefit of the 1910's better scaler. I hope Denon didn't forget such a control, as it makes or breaks usability of the otherwise great scaler.

All this makes me wonder if the upgrade to the 2310 would be an even bigger improvement.
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post #638 of 9328 Old 06-30-2009, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

So...on the denon website and "enhanced power amp assignment" is not checked on the 790...am I correct in assuming that the 790 does not allow bi-wiring of front speakers?

In comparing the manuals, I believe that refers to the fact that the 790 only allows biamping the Frnt A speakers whearas the 1910 allows Frnt A or B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by generalhead View Post

...The way the manual describes bi-amping it sounds like they're describing horizontal bi-amping. Does the 1910 also support vertical bi-amping?

It is what has been referred to as passive biamping, since the xovers are left intact in the speakers and no additional external power amp is used. We have had no posters report any benefit from using this technique, although I believe few have bothered as it is not reputed to be of much/any benefit.
Here is Denon's explation in the FAQ section of their site:
http://denon.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/de...i=&p_topview=1

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post #639 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 03:44 AM
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Well I just ordered a 1910. I hope me, as well as my DVR, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, and Oppo Blu-ray player are all very happy together!
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post #640 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 05:40 AM
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Thanks for the response, SoundofMind.

The reason I'm asking this is because I'm considering buying some speakers that would probably be considered overkill in just about every respect. (Energy RC-50's - I'm having a hard time resisting the current deals). I was hoping to use 2 of them for my main left and right front speakers, using the 1910 for a 5.0 (eventually 5.1) speaker system. I thought biamping the RC-50's would allow me to provide them more sufficient power (particularly when listening to stereo music in 2 channel mode). But Energy only recommends vertical biamping, so might I want to consider a different receiver?

Or am I over-thinking this? The speakers are the main thing driving this purchase. I view the RC-50s as overkill for my current situation, but speakers that will last me a long, long time. I'm in an apartment now, so in no way do I need to get the most out of the speakers right now. But I want a 5.1 AVR that will still drive them well at moderate volumes for 5.1 or 2.0 listening.
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post #641 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 06:21 AM
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So as of yesterday when UPS arrived I am now the owner of a Denon 1910.

As a newbie to HT set up I have a question that I hope to get some guidance on.

First a lil background info on equipment to be connected:

TV- Samsung UN46B8000
BD- Samsung BD-P3600
Sat TV- HD21
AVR- Denon 1910

Is there any reason I would not want to connect both the BD player and the Sat receiver to the TV using HDMI cables, then routing audio to the Denon using fiber optic cable? Versus going to Denon via HDMI fist with both devices, then on to TV via HDMI. Just wanna make sure I don't lose any capability by doing it this way.

I will be using Audyssey to set up the speakers.

Thanks for any advice offered.

CG

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post #642 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 06:43 AM
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Well you won't get high def audio using only optical cables. You'll get that with hdmi however. Also, with multiple hdmi ports on your receiver, why not let the receiver do the switching for you?
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post #643 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 07:25 AM
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CG,

You will also not get the benefit of the video processing in the 1910. As a new owner of the 1910 I am very impressed with its capabilities.
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post #644 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromegorilla View Post

Is there any reason I would not want to connect both the BD player and the Sat receiver to the TV using HDMI cables, then routing audio to the Denon using fiber optic cable? Versus going to Denon via HDMI fist with both devices, then on to TV via HDMI. Just wanna make sure I don't lose any capability by doing it this way.

The easiest option would be to just go straight to the 1910 with both inputs as suggested. Some cable/satellite boxes have HDMI handshake issues with the Denon AVRs; however, DirecTV STB's generally don't have such issues. If you do, there's no lose in audio quality if you run HDMI to the Sammy and an optical to the 1910. If you choose to use the switched outlets, you'll also have to set HDMI Control to OFF which might be another reason to run the HDMI straight from the sat STB to the Sammy. You'll have to do your own A/B test to determine whether the Sat STB does a better job of upscaling over the 1910.

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post #645 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 10:44 AM
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News! Just pulled the trigger on the 790 , $434 shipped on Amazon, fulfilled by Beach Audio. I just got a Samsung DMP-BD1600 so I'm stoked to finally have a full HD audio and video setup.

You can get it from their site for a little cheaper (maybe $425), but they appear to be out of stock.

Will give you my first impressions when I get it all dialed in!

Have a great 4th of July.
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post #646 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalhead View Post

.. I'm considering buying some speakers that would probably be considered overkill in just about every respect. (Energy RC-50's - I'm having a hard time resisting the current deals). I was hoping to use 2 of them for my main left and right front speakers, using the 1910 for a 5.0 (eventually 5.1) speaker system. I thought biamping the RC-50's would allow me to provide them more sufficient power (particularly when listening to stereo music in 2 channel mode). But Energy only recommends vertical biamping, so might I want to consider a different receiver?

Or am I over-thinking this? The speakers are the main thing driving this purchase. I view the RC-50s as overkill for my current situation, but speakers that will last me a long, long time. I'm in an apartment now, so in no way do I need to get the most out of the speakers right now. But I want a 5.1 AVR that will still drive them well at moderate volumes for 5.1 or 2.0 listening.

Hey per this forum's standards you have not begun to approach overthinking this!

Those are beautiful speakers for $350 ea and reasonably efficient (91dB). I believe that in a small listening room they should be fine at mod volumes with the 1910 for 2.0 in your apartment. Keep in mind that a sub would take a big load off the 1910, as it takes the power hungry low freqs away from the satellites and uses its own amp.

Unfortunately, the consensus is that passive biamping brings little additional power to the speaker, as the limiting factor is the AVR's power transformer, which all the AVR's amps share. So 2.1 would be much preferred with a 1910.

Lastly, if critical/higher SQ listening is a priority, the 2809/989 would be a better match, handling the entire job considerably better and bringing out the best of those 50's.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #647 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hey per this forum's standards you have not begun to approach overthinking this!

...

Lastly, if critical/higher SQ listening is a priority, the 2809/989 would be a better match, handling the entire job considerably better and bringing out the best of those 50's.

I had the same exact thought about overthinking right after I made that post

Just curious why you skipped over the 2309 and went straight to the 2809?
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post #648 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalhead View Post

Just curious why you skipped over the 2309 and went straight to the 2809?

Others should feel free to jump in with recommendations as well, especially jd or bp; we welcome their expert input.

For purposes of our discussion the 1910 is being considered essentially equivalent (in regards to preamp/amp) to the 1909 although AFAIK we have little to go on objectively as yet. The 2309 is a fine AVR and does offer a little more power. But most folks didn't see the 2309 as worth the extra $ over the 1909. The more popular move up was/is to the 2809 which offers yet more power, full preouts and most importantly much better SQ overall due to features such as MultEQXT, Al-24plus and better DAC's. It is, IMHO, a great bargain SQ/$ wise (currently around $750-800). See this post for more:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post16738288

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post #649 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 12:54 PM
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Just FYI, A V Science has 1910's in stock.

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post #650 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalhead View Post

Thanks for the response, SoundofMind.

The reason I'm asking this is because I'm considering buying some speakers that would probably be considered overkill in just about every respect. (Energy RC-50's - I'm having a hard time resisting the current deals). I was hoping to use 2 of them for my main left and right front speakers, using the 1910 for a 5.0 (eventually 5.1) speaker system. I thought biamping the RC-50's would allow me to provide them more sufficient power (particularly when listening to stereo music in 2 channel mode). But Energy only recommends vertical biamping, so might I want to consider a different receiver?

Or am I over-thinking this? The speakers are the main thing driving this purchase. I view the RC-50s as overkill for my current situation, but speakers that will last me a long, long time. I'm in an apartment now, so in no way do I need to get the most out of the speakers right now. But I want a 5.1 AVR that will still drive them well at moderate volumes for 5.1 or 2.0 listening.

This is similiar to my way of thinking. My reasoning is that the speakers will likely make a bigger difference than the AVR, and the center channel much more so. So I have decided to spare no expense on the center channel, and am waiting for a used deal on the Aerial CC-3 or CC-5. The CC-5 by itself will likely cost me 4 times what I paid for the AVR.

I can't comment on the RC-50s, but I had the RC-30s and they did not have the dynamic impact necessary for movies, and I ended up returning them. While the bass can be handed to the subwoofer, it is the mid-bass that is really important, and that has to be handled by the speakers themselves. I have to admit that the cherry finish on the RC-30/50/70 is beautiful, the best I have seen on any speaker.
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post #651 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 03:04 PM
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Yup, after 34 years of quality sound, I sold these speakers which I bought in 1975 for 400.00 a pair and sold to a connaiseur for 200.00 He needed parts and at the same time sold him my old Marantz 112 tuner for 100.00

this is what I call a longterm investment after 34 years of usage get 50% back. Tuner even better bought for 150.00 at the same time and get 66% return.

Well this 300.00 will pay half of the Paradigm Monitor 7 v6 speakers. They should blend well with the 1910 and the rest is Klipsch

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post #652 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 08:26 PM
 
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Long time reader, first time poster...

OK guys and gals, I have a question, there been one review on the 1910 or 790 worth reading? I really want someone to rate these receivers, but not so much CNET, they seem never to respect the power and quality of Denon. They seem to care more about features and easiness than pure quality and sound performance which is the reason that every AV receiver falls under the Home Audio section of every retailer in the world. OK sorry about the venting tangent, but really does anybody know of a review????


The second thing is that I have purchased the 1910 (I just like seeing what people think of what I own) and I love it. I recently had a AVR-597 and that sounded great, but it was time to ditch the entry level and get in on the HDMIy goodness, which has been delicious if I might say.

I'd like to point out to anyone thinking about buying this, that the video performance is great, I have a crappy Dynex 32" and the video scaling of below HD signals is laughable, and 480i is actually painful to watch. Like at college I only got 5 HD channels and well I only watched 5 lol. But the 1910 makes the below HD channels look really good, I'm not going to say they look HD and they're not near HD but they look really good. Like if HD is a 10 and SD is a 5 the 1910 makes the SD a 7.5 maybe higher. It even takes my great performing Panny DMP-BD35k upconverting a DVD and does a double and upconverts that even more.


I'm going to leave out the audio performance because it's a Denon and Denon still has never fallen short on delivering great sounding performance. Thats the reason they always seem to offer a little less features or are slower to offer them, they care about what really matters in an AVR, great sound.
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post #653 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 08:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hey per this forum's standards you have not begun to approach overthinking this!

Those are beautiful speakers for $350 ea and reasonably efficient (91dB). I believe that in a small listening room they should be fine at mod volumes with the 1910 for 2.0 in your apartment. Keep in mind that a sub would take a big load off the 1910, as it takes the power hungry low freqs away from the satellites and uses its own amp.

Unfortunately, the consensus is that passive biamping brings little additional power to the speaker, as the limiting factor is the AVR's power transformer, which all the AVR's amps share. So 2.1 would be much preferred with a 1910.

Lastly, if critical/higher SQ listening is a priority, the 2809/989 would be a better match, handling the entire job considerably better and bringing out the best of those 50's.

I'm not an expert by any means and could be totally wrong but, I am not sure that the 1910 would be even powerful enough for the 50's, I've heard that not only can over powering a speaker hurt it but actually underpowering it can do more damage and I dont know if 90 watts at peak could be enough for the 50's rating at 220 especially when you are listening at low volumes where the output will be much lower than 90 watts. Just a thought and I could be wrong, and please let me know if i am.
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post #654 of 9328 Old 07-01-2009, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hey per this forum's standards you have not begun to approach overthinking this!

Those are beautiful speakers for $350 ea and reasonably efficient (91dB). I believe that in a small listening room they should be fine at mod volumes with the 1910 for 2.0 in your apartment. Keep in mind that a sub would take a big load off the 1910, as it takes the power hungry low freqs away from the satellites and uses its own amp.

Unfortunately, the consensus is that passive biamping brings little additional power to the speaker, as the limiting factor is the AVR's power transformer, which all the AVR's amps share. So 2.1 would be much preferred with a 1910.

Lastly, if critical/higher SQ listening is a priority, the 2809/989 would be a better match, handling the entire job considerably better and bringing out the best of those 50's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVgeekster View Post

I'm not an expert by any means and could be totally wrong but, I am not sure that the 1910 would be even powerful enough for the 50's, I've heard that not only can over powering a speaker hurt it but actually underpowering it can do more damage and I dont know if 90 watts at peak could be enough for the 50's rating at 220 especially when you are listening at low volumes where the output will be much lower than 90 watts. Just a thought and I could be wrong, and please let me know if i am.

He'll be just fine with the Energy's and the 790, especially if he's only driving 2 speakers.
No "danger" whatsoever unless he ignores obvious signs of distress or his neighbors pounding on the walls.
Actually in this case having a single transformer is an advantage since the AVR is only driving 2 speakers, the transformer will be able to deliver higher amounts of current, reducing the likelihood of clipping.
But remember General, it's not all about volume.
In fact, you'll be able to listen at lower volumes and hear much more.
Bi-amping with the 790 is a waste of speaker cable, imo.

 

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post #655 of 9328 Old 07-02-2009, 12:54 AM
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so would using this receiver to power this setup be dangerous (in terms of underpowering and causing damage)

Receiver: denon 1910
Mains: RC70
Center: RCLCR
Rears: RC10
Sub: S10.3


Making me second guess my upgrade decisions
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post #656 of 9328 Old 07-02-2009, 03:18 AM
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Of course not. The difference in power of the 1910 (90w) and the 2809 (115w) is negligible. When we say "underpower" we're referring to 40 or 50 watt AVRs and not 90 watt AVRs. Not to mention, the more "efficient" your speakers are, the less wattage you actually need. Your RC-70's are VERY efficient at 95 db at 1 ft or roughly 85 db at 12ft (average listening distance):

1 watt = 85 db
2 watts = 88 db
4 watts = 91 db
8 watts = 94 db
16 watts = 97 db
32 watts = 100 db
64 watts = 103 db
128 watts = 106 db

Most folks barely use 10 watts of their AVR for normal listening volumes and in your case you're shaking the roof at roughly 32! Notice there is only a 3db difference between 64 watts and 128 watts. The real question (and what SOM was getting at, suggesting at a minimum the 2809) is why would you guy's with $1000/pair (and in your case $2000/pair) for front speakers settle for a 1910 when clearly they deserve the audio fidelity capabilities of a much higher range AVR (2809 or 3808)?

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post #657 of 9328 Old 07-02-2009, 04:44 AM
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Thanks for your comments everyone. An underpowered amp causing damage to the speakers doesn't make sense to me. Considering you normally operate amps far from peak output how would lower wattage cause damage?

Regardless after a little prodding and some research on my part I think I've decided to go with a 2809. Yes I quickly doubled my receiver budget, but all in all I think it's a much better receiver for my situation.
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post #658 of 9328 Old 07-02-2009, 05:32 AM
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Using a 1910 until my 2310 arrives. I have HDMI out to tv, all other sources are HDMI except Xbox 360 which is component with optical in. I cant get video or sound from the xbox. What am I doing wrong?
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post #659 of 9328 Old 07-02-2009, 05:33 AM
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With the RC-50's at 94db efficiency you would not have to use much power at normal listening volumes. However, keep in mind that the average person buying a 1910 is spending roughly $400-$800 on their ENTIRE speaker setup let alone on just 1 or 2 speakers as you are. Efficiency in that range is generally 85-88db requiring far more power, especially if reference volume level is desired.
As long as normal listening levels are maintained in an average room, there shouldn't be any chance of speaker clipping regardless of the speaker.

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post #660 of 9328 Old 07-02-2009, 06:22 AM
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Batpig (and all) -
Just bought the AVR 1910 and setting it up.
Is there anything I should be aware of when using it with a FiOS DVR?
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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