*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1910/790 Owner's Thread - Page 54 - AVS Forum
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post #1591 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, to expand on that, the functionality is different. The A/B speakers are chained together, they use the same amp, the have to play the same source, and they have the same volume. The volume being tied together especially can be a pain if the patio speakers are more efficient than the indoor speakers or vice versa...

The Zone 2 speakers however can play a different source, have independent volume control, and must use independent amplification (either the surr.back amps in your receiver or a separate, external amp). It's like having a completely separate analog 2ch stereo system built into your multichannel digital receiver.

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post #1592 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitz View Post

wow, you sound very knowledgeable...

and we all know that's the most important part

I should make that my sig -- "batpig: I sound very knowledgeable"

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post #1593 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 11:06 AM
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Hello, this is my first post to this forum. I am a big fan of Denon recievers. I have decided to replace my ten year old AVR-3300 with a current model to take advantage of HDMI swithching and the new HD audio formats. I have been considering the AVR 1910. However, I am a bit concerned about the posts I've read about HDMI problems with the AVR 1910 and Sony TV's. I have a KDL-52W3000 Sony TV. Has anyone had success connecting this TV to the AVR-1910 via HDMI? If not, are there any other Denon recievers that will work well with this TV?
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post #1594 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klicker View Post

Hey Batpig, have you heard of this no osd problem before? It seems I have a bad unit. I have one day left to get a replacement, so I'm packing it up now. Hopefully the new one will work better. It just seems strange that it was working correctly, then not. This leads me to believe that something went wrong in the unit. I have reset, gone through the menu, tried many things and still no osd on screen. I don't see any posts about this.

Hi klicker,

Just got my new 1910 set-up about 15 mins ago, and your problem has just happened to me too

As I was setting the 'input' assignments, I turned off the Component Video assignment for "DVD" & the OSD suddenly 'clicked' off; this made me think I'd done something like switch off the receivers ability to output over HDMI. So I restored all settings to factory default but now find there's no OSD at all (although the menu does show on the front panel)

Let us know if the replacement unit resolves the problem, as it seems I'm probably gonna have to do the same as you...

Regards,

LAGAVULIN

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post #1595 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Some TV's are not able to receive 480i (OSD resolution) over HDMI, although you said you actually were able to see it the first day. It shouldn't matter, but try displaying it with each of the various input sources...

RE: Klicker's (and my) aforementioned prob - this appears to be exactly what the issue is!

I've just now connected the composite "Monitor" out on the back of the 1910 to my screen and I CAN get the menu to display perfectly fine. It must be something that was changed in the receiver when I assigned the inputs that then sent an incompatible signal over HDMI and it now won't display via HDMI, but it does over composite...

My Q now is: how do I get it to output over HDMI again????

Anyway Klicker, perhaps you didn't have a faulty unit per se, it looks like it's some setting and the display's we're using that aren't compatible

Regards guys

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post #1596 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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For those with OSD issues, just to expand on what JD said in the quote above, there are certain combinations of video settings on the Denon and your TV's capabilities which may cause the OSD to not show up over HDMI.

I will give you an example of how it works from my AVR 789 (same as 1909) on my display, a Panny 11UK pro plasma which does NOT accept 480i over HDMI. This can be quirky so follow along...

- with a source which is going in/out via HDMI only, the OSD seems to show all the time. For example, my HD DVD player (DVD input) and my PS3 (VCR input) are hooked up with HDMI into the AVR, and HDMI out to the display, and when I hit the "menu" button the screen blanks out, the sound drops out, and it resyncs with the OSD over HDMI. This is true regardless of whether I have Video Convert on or off (I leave it OFF on these inputs as it is HDMI in/out) or what the i/p scaler is set to.

- with an analog video source converted to HDMI, the OSD will ONLY show up if the i/p scaler is on! For example, both my cable box and my Apple TV are hooked up with component video cables, then converted to HDMI output to my display. I have experimented with this, and if the i/p scaler is OFF (even if Video Convert is ON) the OSD will NOT show up on my display! The screen blanks out, but then I get a black screen with "no signal" message. As long as the i/p scaler is on (e.g. the 480i analog signal is converted to 480p or higher over HDMI) the OSD works fine.

So, even though the OSD is ostensibly 480i, it works just fine for my HDMI sources with i/p scaler turned off.... but it does NOT work for my analog video sources with i/p scaler turned off. Why? Who knows?? ... maybe with the HDMI/HDMI connection it queries my monitor and sees that it doesn't take 480i, and so automatically outputs the OSD as 480p or something...

So, Lagavulin, the moral of the story is that the video conversion settings on the receiver MIGHT be influencing the OSD. Especially since it started when you told it you weren't assigning things for that "DVD" input. If the OSD is not showing up, you may have to navigate to the "i/p scaler" settings via the front panel display and try out different settings.

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post #1597 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 12:53 PM
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batpig - I will try this when I get home tonight. I have my Panasonic DB-50 using HDMI input 2 (HDP) on the avr-1910 and will see if the movie blocks out and the OSD (menu) appears. (I'll also check my tv manual to see if the Kuro Plasma can do 480i over HDMI.) I'll also try to run a video cable from my blu-ray to the 1910 to what result that has. If you see smoke, the result is not recommended.
I've been jumping back & forth among tv inputs to do the setup, so I hope this works.
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post #1598 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 01:46 PM
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After trying to configure the audio delay for lipsync by eye with my cable/DVD/bluray sources, I decided today to see if there was a better technique. Indeed, the DVE calibration disk has an audio test pattern to help with this.

On my bluray, I am having trouble getting it to use any value greater than 100ms. The manual indicates that the audio delay can be from 0-200ms, but only 0-100ms if auto lipsync is enabled. I disabled auto lipsync in the HDMI settings, nevertheless values of audio delay greater than 100ms seem to be treated as if I had entered 100.

This is on an all HDMI connection, bluray to AVR-790 and AVR-790 video to Samsung LCD. HDMI Audio Out is configured to AMP to use the separate speakers. I see the same behavior whether the BD-35 player is upscaling the DVE SD DVD to 1080p/24 or 1080p/60. I have not tried this on any other sources, as their video cables are connected directly to my set and need less delay; the bluray is the only source using HDMI to the AVR.

Has anyone else tried to calibrate audio delays greater than 100ms on any source? On an HDMI source? Do you know this to work, and I must be seeing a user or procedure error? Or does this fail too for someone else, and the 790 firmware might not match the manual?

Thanks,
Bill

P.S. I did a test on another source, connected with component video converted by the AVR to HDMI. In that case, the full range of 0-200ms audio delay seems to be available.
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post #1599 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 02:27 PM
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My 790 has arrived!! It's in my backyard, says the FedEx guy. Just need to wait the 35 minutes, clock-out and go rescue it!!

Let the set-up confusion begin!!! --I know, I'll use the Batpig site, no worries, I've been there some already. Plus, I've done this more than a few times.

Hmm...what to watch first...I mean LISTEN TO???


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post #1600 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

So, Lagavulin, the moral of the story is that the video conversion settings on the receiver MIGHT be influencing the OSD. Especially since it started when you told it you weren't assigning things for that "DVD" input. If the OSD is not showing up, you may have to navigate to the "i/p scaler" settings via the front panel display and try out different settings.

I just got my 790 yesterday, and have also experienced the OSD problem. I have it connected via HDMI to a Samsung HLS6186W. I don't know if the Samsung accepts 480i over HDMI or not; but if the scaler is turned off I don't see the OSD.

I had several HDMI only sources that I didn't want scaled, and the only options it was offering me was scaler off or Analog+HDMI. So to disable HDMI scalling, but still see the OSD, I had to temporary assign a component input. Then it let me set the scaler to analog, then I was able to remove the component input, but it left the scaler set to analog.
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post #1601 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCO_1806 View Post

My 790 has arrived!! It's in my backyard, says the FedEx guy. Just need to wait the 35 minutes, clock-out and go rescue it!!

Let the set-up confusion begin!!! --I know, I'll use the Batpig site, no worries, I've been there some already. Plus, I've done this more than a few times.

Hmm...what to watch first...I mean LISTEN TO???


Forgot to give props:
$398, shipped, from www.US-Appliance.com yes, they're an authorized dealer. Used a coupon code "welcome10" to discount it by $10

Darn you for posting that. I was looking at that today during lunch. Oh well I hope they have some left. Went ahead and ordered now that the cat is out of the bag. That is one LOW price.
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post #1602 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickmoll View Post

I just got my 790 yesterday, and have also experienced the OSD problem. I have it connected via HDMI to a Samsung HLS6186W. I don't know if the Samsung accepts 480i over HDMI or not; but if the scaler is turned off I don't see the OSD.

I had several HDMI only sources that I didn't want scaled, and the only options it was offering me was scaler off or Analog+HDMI. So to disable HDMI scalling, but still see the OSD, I had to temporary assign a component input. Then it let me set the scaler to analog, then I was able to remove the component input, but it left the scaler set to analog.

AS long as that OSD works the 2 or three times I may use it for setup I really don't care what hoops I have to jump through.
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post #1603 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by maldives View Post

Well, I finally got my 790. I mounted the speakers and wired everything up. I powered the unit on, and per batpig's guide I went to the Audyssey setup. I started the process, and heard about 2 seconds of sound coming from my left front speaker, and then... silence. The screen just sits on "testing LF speaker". The only way to get out is to cancel.

I powered everything off, and double checked everything, and (to my dismay) found that the front left speaker was wired backwards. So I rewired it, turned on the unit, and still nothing. Next, I did a reset on the microprocessor, and still nothing!

Though I can get video from my bluray player, I can't get any sound. I even tried the FM tuner and nothing! There was a slight pulsing noise coming from my speakers?

I am trying to figure out what is wrong. Is it just a setup issue? It doesn't appear to have tripped a safety switch or anything as the unit powers on (green indicator). And are the speakers damaged? If the receiver is damaged, what do I do? Call Denon?

Please help! Thanks in advance.

after 3 days of troubleshooting, even calling denon support, i'm sending this receiver back-it's defective we've all determinded (as well as others)

hope the replacement works!
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post #1604 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickmoll View Post

I just got my 790 yesterday, and have also experienced the OSD problem. I have it connected via HDMI to a Samsung HLS6186W. I don't know if the Samsung accepts 480i over HDMI or not; but if the scaler is turned off I don't see the OSD.

I had several HDMI only sources that I didn't want scaled, and the only options it was offering me was scaler off or Analog+HDMI. So to disable HDMI scalling, but still see the OSD, I had to temporary assign a component input. Then it let me set the scaler to analog, then I was able to remove the component input, but it left the scaler set to analog.

Does this apply for the volume display ?

The menu shows up fine BUT I do not get the volume listed when I hit the remote.

I asked here and was told that the volume cannot be displayed thru HDMI.

I have the Denon to TV monitor with HDMI and a XBOX with component and optical.

I have not tried the I/P scaler yet as I prefer heading this response as i am not a fan of changing settings for testing purpose.

Thanks,
Greg
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post #1605 of 9376 Old 08-13-2009, 11:16 PM
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Hello All,

First, thanks for this great thread. Using Bat's guide and a few things picked up reading this thread, my 790 has been working flawlessly (knock on wood) since day 1. Everything is entry level in the house (790, Polk R50's (2) and a polk sub. Center and rears coming soon. TV doesn't really have much to do with this post but it's a Samsung hl56a650 with Dtv). I've got a Sansa e260 (mp3 player) and have hooked it up twice via the v.aux input on the front of the receiver using a mini to stereo cable. Base is horribly heavy (coming from someone that likes a bit of vibration in the house at times) and obviously, the sound quality isn't near as nice as when using headphones.

Taking into account all the variances with mp3's, does anyone know if using an ipod dock into the ipod input will help with overall sound quality? I don't mind picking up an ipod if it'll help. I've got about 70 gigs of mp3's I'd like to play every once in awhile so if either an ipod or a pc would help, I'm down to go that rout.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for any help...
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post #1606 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

For those with OSD issues, just to expand on what JD said in the quote above, there are certain combinations of video settings on the Denon and your TV's capabilities which may cause the OSD to not show up over HDMI...

...[snip]...

...So, Lagavulin, the moral of the story is that the video conversion settings on the receiver MIGHT be influencing the OSD. Especially since it started when you told it you weren't assigning things for that "DVD" input. If the OSD is not showing up, you may have to navigate to the "i/p scaler" settings via the front panel display and try out different settings.

Hi Batpig,

Deeply appreciate the superb (and not too pedantic ) description! What you say makes clear sense, so I'm gonna have a bash through to the "i/p scaler" as you kindly suggest. As a side note - I remember that my display popped-up a message when the OSD disappeared - yesterday - saying "Unsupported signal format" or something similar; so yes, it does look like that a particular resolution/output mode changed and the screen simply can't handle it...

Thankfully the OSD does appear via the composite 'monitor' output, so I can navigate to this fairly easy and then change settings (I actually came across this last night so know just where to go ).

Will post back if I have any joy! Thanks again mate, it's a big help...

Regards,

LAGAVULIN

In hoc signo vinces!
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post #1607 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagavulin View Post

...Will post back if I have any joy...

Hi again,

Just tried your suggestion Batpig and sadly, it doesn't have any effect on the OSD output over HDMI

Have enabled the i/p scaler to Analog/HDMI, and have reset the different inputs et al to factory default and nada! Mmmm...baffling to say the least

Aside from this this, I'm very impressed with this receiver. Hopefully, will get some time later this evening to set it up properly and put it through it's paces...

All the best,

LAGAVULIN

In hoc signo vinces!
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post #1608 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee14 View Post

Does this apply for the volume display ?
...
Thanks,
Greg

I do not see the volume displayed on the HDMI connected TV.
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post #1609 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vurbano View Post

Darn you for posting that. I was looking at that today during lunch. Oh well I hope they have some left. Went ahead and ordered now that the cat is out of the bag. That is one LOW price.

My bad, didn't know it was a secret. I just did my searching and found it a few weeks back.
I had called them, when the 790 was out of stock, which I think it is again. The dude told me it would be a few weeks. I found it available before that, so pounced on it. Once shipped, took 3 more days and it's in my living room now.
Sadly, I ran out of energy after moving the TV to the other end of the room (pre-wired for such a swap). The 790 is sitting on the floor, waiting.
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post #1610 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theWalkinator View Post

Just couple of minutes ago while I was watching TV, the receiver suddenly cut off the signal, and I saw the power button light turned red and started blinking, I thought I accidentally hit some button on the remote, so I pressed the remote power button again, it stop the blinking and but still red, so I pressed the power button on the remote again, this time, the light turned green and something displayed on the receiver's front panel for like 3,4 seconds, then I clearly saw a spark coming out in the back of the receiver and smelled something burning. Now the receiver can not be turned on.

Anyone has the similar situation?

The unit is on its way back to Denon in NJ for repair, now I have to mount my old TV speakers back to the TV so I can at least watch TV for 2,3 weeks. Very disappointed. I got Denon instead of Onkyo because of the overheating issues with the Onkyo receivers, never expected Denon would fry, and it was running cool before this happened. Well, I guess I am just unlucky or lucky one to get a defect unit. Noticed the unit was manufactured in China, maybe that's why.
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post #1611 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 10:14 AM
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Due to PQ issues I resorted to cabling my samsung BD player directly to my samsung TV bypassing the 1910. For audio connection I used an optical cable from BD player to 1910. Obviously I am missing out on HD audio. Is there any reason that I cannot use a separate HDMI for the purpose of carrying audio only from BD player to the 1910 in keeping my current setup?

Jertronic -Denon Convert...long time Yamaha-head
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post #1612 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbzak1 View Post

I've got a Sansa e260 (mp3 player) and have hooked it up twice via the v.aux input on the front of the receiver using a mini to stereo cable. Base is horribly heavy (coming from someone that likes a bit of vibration in the house at times) and obviously, the sound quality isn't near as nice as when using headphones.

I am assuming you are using the headphone jack, or some other variable volume output connected mini>RCA cable right? This kind of variable output is always going to provide diminished audio quality because there is interaction between the volume of the device and the volume of the AVR.... but, most importantly, it probably wreaks havoc with Dynamic EQ because there isn't anything approaching a "reference" volume.

Try again but turn OFF Dynamic EQ and see if that helps with the bass. You may have to fiddle with the volume on the device to find the right input level.

In other words, the problem is not "MP3's" at all, it's the delivery of the signal to the AVR.

There are lots of good solutions for piping your digital music collection to your sweet new AVR that will sound much better, there is no reason to specifically use the Denon iPod dock (and BTW there is nothing special about the "ipod" input, it's just there to convince you to buy the Denon dock).

If you don't even have an iPod, that means you would be spending $200+ just to get the Denon dock plus an iPod. Once you are spending that much, there are much better solutions. Which one works for you depends on where your music is stored (e.g. on a PC? or a laptop?) and how you want to control it.

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post #1613 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertronic View Post

Due to PQ issues I resorted to cabling my samsung BD player directly to my samsung TV bypassing the 1910.

there should not be ANY issues with PQ, HDMI video should pass through untouched! what exactly is the problem?

but, that being said... yes, there is no reason you can't split the HDMI signal out of the BDP if you want.

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post #1614 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 11:37 AM
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I purchased a AVR790 a couple of weeks ago, and I have a couple of problems, that I'm hoping that the answers are "just do this, you idiot." But I have two issues that are either indications of a defective machine or a defective owner. I'm hoping that it's the latter, since I'm a neophyte in this arena.

The first problem is that I'm getting no sound from the tuner. The readout indicates that the stations are tuned in just fine, but there isn't anything coming out of the speakers.

The second problem is that when I switch from inputs -- TV to DVD, for example -- I won't get any sound unless I turn the receiver off and turn it back on. This actually even happens when I change channels on the TV or play a new show from my TiVo Now Playing list.

Any help anybody can provide would be great. Thanks in advance!!
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post #1615 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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neither of those things are normal! my off-the-wall guess is that you are having handshake problems with the display which is causing the goofy behavior in your AVR refusing to play audio.

do you by chance have a DVI display and are connected with HDMI/DVI cable?

alternately, if you have a newer HDMI 1.3 display, try turning off any "HDMI Control" or "HDMI-CEC" functions in the display.

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http://batpigworld.com/

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post #1616 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertronic View Post

Due to PQ issues I resorted to cabling my samsung BD player directly to my samsung TV bypassing the 1910. For audio connection I used an optical cable from BD player to 1910. Obviously I am missing out on HD audio. Is there any reason that I cannot use a separate HDMI for the purpose of carrying audio only from BD player to the 1910 in keeping my current setup?

I was thinking about the same question, for a different reason. There are HDMI splitter devices that should let you connect two downstream devices to the one upstream device, the samsung BD player. Most of the product descriptions focus on what video resolutions they support, as their primary target is attaching multiple TV sets to a cable/satellite box. The issue arises with the HDMI handshake that lets the upstream device know the capablities of the downstream device. Several player manuals suggest that many TV sets provide only limited audio support, so the audio they send downstream will be only 2 channel downmixed PCM to such a TV (I'm looking at a Panasonic BD-35 manual as an example). So it may be a little tricky to get the Samsung player to see the AVR through the splitter rather than the TV so it can recognize the downstream device as supporting HD audio.
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post #1617 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 11:51 AM
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I was afraid of that. I'll check on the setup stuff when I get home, but doesn't sound good. Luckily, it's only a couple of weeks old, and the local Best Buy has another one, so I should be able to exchange.
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post #1618 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 12:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by theWalkinator View Post

The unit is on its way back to Denon in NJ for repair, now I have to mount my old TV speakers back to the TV so I can at least watch TV for 2,3 weeks. Very disappointed. I got Denon instead of Onkyo because of the overheating issues with the Onkyo receivers, never expected Denon would fry, and it was running cool before this happened. Well, I guess I am just unlucky or lucky one to get a defect unit. Noticed the unit was manufactured in China, maybe that's why.

Maybe they stop the whipping "for job done poorly" in China. I hope Denon goes back to whipping , so it does not fail like GM.
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post #1619 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 12:15 PM
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Well, my AVR-1910 from 6ave.com's "Name your own price" sale from a few weeks ago just arrived yesterday off back-order ($433 - 405+tax). Working pretty flawlessly with Xbox 360, my old Sony 51" RPTV, and DirecTV HR-20. Speakers are (8) Monoprice 6" Kevlar in-wall units. Center channel is a pair of speakers pig-tailed together.

Still shopping for a sub. Considering the slimline Yamaha.

I'm sure I'll be back when I dig into more nitty-gritty stuff. Thanks for the thread and to Batpig for his site, which were instrumental in my purchase and initial setup.
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post #1620 of 9376 Old 08-14-2009, 12:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DangerMoose View Post

Well, my AVR-1910 from 6ave.com's "Name your own price" sale from a few weeks ago just arrived yesterday off back-order ($433 - 405+tax). Working pretty flawlessly with Xbox 360, my old Sony 51" RPTV, and DirecTV HR-20. Speakers are (8) Monoprice 6" Kevlar in-wall units. Center channel is a pair of speakers pig-tailed together.

Still shopping for a sub. Considering the slimline Yamaha.

I'm sure I'll be back when I dig into more nitty-gritty stuff. Thanks for the thread and to Batpig for his site, which were instrumental in my purchase and initial setup.

You can do alot better than a yamaha sub for the same money. Yamaha is not a brand name for subs , you need to do your homework.
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