*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1610/590 owner's thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #541 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 03:20 AM
Member
 
JohnnyFriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Denison, IA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

question -- are most sources just fine and it was a specific movie's mix that gave you trouble, or is it a general issue?

question 2 -- have you tried dynamic volume? it is specifically intended to allow you to set the volume at a comfortable level for dialogue, and then manage the dynamic swings so that you don't jump for the volume control when the rest of the action starts to overwhelm it.

I had this problem as well for the first time yesterday. I think it was the mix on the Underworld bluray(a lot of ambient sound through the whole movie, rain etc). I had to dial my sub back to -11(lowest) and set the gain to 1/2. I then had to bump the center 1.5 dbs, and the problem was still there, but I could comfortably make out the dialogue. Ill have to check other movies for reference, but I had no problems with dialogue for Hitman, Streetkings or television when it came to audysseys initial settings.

I would say my center is now my weak point in my theater setup, Im going to replace it with a c-v center soon, and I hope that eliminates all volume problems.

BTW Batpig, I think my room dimensions are approx 15'X28'. I think I understand where you were going with what bass I was comparing it to. My friend is a car audio competition guy, and his setup gets 136-137 dbs on a burp which is a bit hard to take, it reverberates your organs. My seteup is facing the "skinny" way of the room. I have my couch approx 7' from my setup as I try to achieve THX recommendations for my 58" plasma.
JohnnyFriday is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #542 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 05:18 AM
Member
 
sokh1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nice, France
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello Denon owners.
Especially Batpig I guess.

Here is my problem:
I got my denon avr1610 back in France with me.
I tried to plug it today with a plug adapter: The amp is receiving juice normally I guess since the on/off and standby buttons are turning red/green normally when I switch on or off.

But my amp screen stays black and when I connect it on my TV via HDMI cable, nothing appears.

So I did try the same HDMI cables with several different stuff, but it's always working except with my amp.

I tried to reset the settings like told on page 57 of the manual and the HD blue leds and other leds are flashing normally, but still nothing on screen.

Do you think that there is like an electric protection (but that would be weird since it's turning on).
Do you think that during the transportation some electronic might have been damaged? (from the exterior the amp seem perfect, same for the box)


Is there something to do with the remote or the amp?
I was soooo excited to receive it!
Now I'm so mad, because it's like turning on but not working!
sokh1985 is offline  
post #543 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
does it make sound? can you test it with speakers?

have you tried an alternative video connection to the TV besides HDMI?

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #544 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 09:23 AM
Member
 
sokh1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nice, France
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well I tried my blu ray on toslink and hdmi but no sound either!

The only thing that is working besides what I said is my subwoofer turns on & the muting is recognized since the green led is blinking.

Plus no phone number for Denon in France on their website.

I've just sent an email to Denon USA. Hope they'll tell me what to do or at least take it for repair in France.

Because if I have to send it back and they also have to send it to me and there is a problem because of transportation, this could happen again.

On the manual it says limited warranty in the US but I think it would make sense if they took it in France, it's a worldwide company.

Shure did it for my earphones purchased in France while I was in the US and Apple did it for iPod purchased in the US when I was in France.
sokh1985 is offline  
post #545 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFriday View Post

I had this problem as well for the first time yesterday. I think it was the mix on the Underworld bluray(a lot of ambient sound through the whole movie, rain etc).

yes, some mixes just aren't that great, and can becomes overwhelming with the effects. especially a lot of current big budget action flicks, they are going just nuts with the LFE and most home systems really can't handle that. I highly recommend trying Dynamic Volume on the "Evening" setting with movies like that...


Quote:


I had to dial my sub back to -11(lowest) and set the gain to 1/2. I then had to bump the center 1.5 dbs, and the problem was still there, but I could comfortably make out the dialogue.

ideally, you don't want to be futzing with the gain knob on the sub after calibration; the goal is to get the gain set at a point where Audyssey returns a channel level value close to "0" so you have wiggle room to adjust up/down for preference by using the digital channel level volume in the receiver. I think the problem is that you were dialing in the sub by ear with music from your computer (which is unreliable as a "reference" in terms of source level) and then you ended up with super hot bass when you watched a movie.


Quote:


I would say my center is now my weak point in my theater setup, Im going to replace it with a c-v center soon, and I hope that eliminates all volume problems.

yes, a TON of content comes through the center and having the center be the weak link can really exacerbate the problems with these mixes. For HT, the center needs to be a strong performer to able to handle all the dynamic of music/effects and still render clear dialogue when pushed to high volumes.


Quote:


BTW Batpig, I think my room dimensions are approx 15'X28'. I think I understand where you were going with what bass I was comparing it to. My friend is a car audio competition guy, and his setup gets 136-137 dbs on a burp which is a bit hard to take, it reverberates your organs.

Yes, that's basically what I'm getting at. If you think about the size of the car, which is providing a reinforcing enclosure for the bass, and you stuff a few 10's or 12's in there..... and compare that to a real room, in your case pushing 3500 cu. ft and with a single 12" woofer. Plus in a car you got all that extra distortion and rattling that makes it feel more impactful. You just can't duplicate that amount of slam in your room unless you have a rig like this.

For quality HT bass and music bass in the home, most good subs provide a smooth, undistorted bass that kind of floods the room and adds that "presence" to HT effects. But it's not going to kick you in the face like a car system.

Another thing to note is that in a large room you are going to have some peaks and nulls.... next time you are bumping the hip hop, walk around the room and you may find that you were sitting in a weak spot for bass in your room, in which case you should try re-locating your sub. But, also, I think you should think about maybe adding a second sub at some point when you save a little more, in a room that size dual F12's would be a little more appropriate and each one wouldn't have to work as hard, you'd get smoother more even response. (sorry but it's so easy to spend other people's money! )

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #546 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 10:12 AM
Member
 
jcm2m9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am currently working on remodeling my basement [url="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1171016"]URL] and am looking at the Denon 590. I am going to be hooking up a PS3, Wii and cable box. My question is do I need to run more then just an HDMI cable to my projector to get sound. Does the 590 pass through audio from all of my componets.

I tried reading through all the pages, but never found a definitive answer.

Thanks for the help
James
jcm2m9 is offline  
post #547 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
I think you are confused, unless your PJ has speakers built in! why would you need to pass AUDIO to your PJ??

the audio goes to the RECEIVER, that is the thing that makes the sound it will then pass the VIDEO to your PJ over a single HDMI cable.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #548 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 10:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
jotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bay area, CA
Posts: 684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, some mixes just aren't that great, and can becomes overwhelming with the effects. especially a lot of current big budget action flicks, they are going just nuts with the LFE and most home systems really can't handle that. I highly recommend trying Dynamic Volume on the "Evening" setting with movies like that...


I'll give that a go next time I have the problem (it was from crank 2 FWIW). Hmm. Im not sure where my "evening" setting is on the remote.

Jonathan
jotter is offline  
post #549 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 12:10 PM
Member
 
jcm2m9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think you are confused, unless your PJ has speakers built in! why would you need to pass AUDIO to your PJ??

the audio goes to the RECEIVER, that is the thing that makes the sound it will then pass the VIDEO to your PJ over a single HDMI cable.

My question might have been the dumbest one in this thread. Thanks for straightening me out BatPig.
jcm2m9 is offline  
post #550 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 07:27 PM
Member
 
JohnnyFriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Denison, IA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Batpig, with the cv re30s I have 12" woofers. I now have it set to lfe+mains, what crossover frequencies do you recommend.

Unfortunately its late, and I wont be able to play with my new toys until tomorrow. But at -28 dbs I am happy with the sound I am getting, and I am sitting perpendicularly to the speakers(using my previous audyssy settings because the sounds they use for testing would probably freak the neighbors out. Also, what volume should you set the reciever to before running audessy? Should it be set to 0? (These re30s are monsters, they make my sonys look like child's play.
JohnnyFriday is offline  
post #551 of 5202 Old 09-02-2009, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
are your speakers set to large or small? the "LFE+MAIN" setting is only relevant if speakers are set to large.

while the "typical" recommendation is "set everything to SMALL", in your case, being somewhat of a bass head and with those big CV's, and also being in a large room, you may like the "double bass" effect when setting them to "large" and having three 12" woofers working. I would try that, and also compare them set to small with an 80Hz crossover, and see which gives the best bass. I looked up your speakers and they are very efficient so they should be able to get pretty loud without too much strain on the amps and still sounds clean.

bottom line though I think a second sub is in the future...

Quote:


Also, what volume should you set the reciever to before running audessy?

does not matter, Audyssey ignores all settings in the receiver when doing its routine. you do want the sub's gain set so that Audyssey dials in a channel level close to "0", that will give you wiggle room to adjust to taste, but in the AVR you don't need to do anything beyond the Audyssey "start" screen.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #552 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 03:57 AM
Member
 
JohnnyFriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Denison, IA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

bottom line though I think a second sub is in the future...

I had set the cvs to large, and will be fiddling with whether to do the same on the ssf-6000s as rears. The reason I asked is I dont know why id want the crossover engaged if I am using lfe+main, or if that setting ignores the crossover setting... and there are multiple crossover screens as I recall. There is one screen that shows all of the speakers and their respective crossovers.

I need to find that screen for 2.1 settings and adjust that because the gap between music and games/movies is more like an impassible ravine when it comes to bass. Playing battlefield 1943 is like listening to a Bass demo cd, and even audyssy sets it to overlill. I had hoped I wouldnt be in a situation where id have to fiddle with manual/speaker setup every single time I switch sources.

This may seem like a dumb question, but if I did want to add a second sub, would I just need an rca-y splitter? There is only 1 subwoofer preout.

Also, for a center replacement Im considering the Cerwin Vega CLS-6C. Audyssy currently thinks my center is 27' away but puts it to -5 dbs, that makes me laugh everytime I see that.
JohnnyFriday is offline  
post #553 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
Quote:
The reason I asked is I dont know why id want the crossover engaged if I am using lfe+main, or if that setting ignores the crossover setting... and there are multiple crossover screens as I recall. There is one screen that shows all of the speakers and their respective crossovers.

Right, there are a couple of relevant screens, I just browsed the manual and this is how it works:

1. The "Bass Setting" screen (under Manual Setup > Speaker Setup) is where you set LFE/LFE+MAIN and also the LFE LPF (which only affects .1 LFE material, it isn't a crossover).

2. the "Crossover Freq." screen (also in Speaker Setup) is where you set the actual bass management. If you look on pg 26 of the manual, it says that if "LFE" is selected for "Bass Setting" then only speakers set to "small" appear and allow a crossover.

But (here is the confusion) if you are set to "LFE+MAIN" then you will also see crossovers for speakers set to "large". So I was partially wrong -- that "crossover" will be the LPF for the "double bass" on speakers set to large.

So, if it is set to "LFE+MAIN":

- if a speaker is set to "small" then the crossover operates normally, e.g. set it at 80Hz and it reroutes everything below that to the sub

- if a speaker is set to "large" then the "crossover" becomes the upper limit for the double bass also sent to the sub, e.g. if it is set at 80Hz, the speaker will play full-range and the sub will get "double bass" below 80Hz.


Quote:
I need to find that screen for 2.1 settings and adjust that because the gap between music and games/movies is more like an impassible ravine when it comes to bass.

Also in checking the manual, I discovered that the 590/1610 does not have this menu (it's a dedicated 2CH DIRECT/STEREO menu where you can set different bass management for stereo mode). I guess that functionality is a "step up" feature of the 1910/790.

So, if you have set your fronts as LARGE and LFE+MAIN then when in STEREO mode you will get 2.1 with "double bass", e.g. both fronts playing full range and the sub also playing everything below the "crossover" freq.

The good news though is that speaker volume settings are memorized by SURROUND MODE, so you can have a different SW channel level in STEREO mode versus multichannel modes.

What I would do is re-run Audyssey (if you haven't already) and get everything tweaked to perfection for movie content (again, because this is a known REFERENCE that we can peg to). Dial the knob in on the subwoofer before re-running so that you end up with a Channel Level for the SW that is somewhat negative (e.g. -5dB), that will give you a lot of room for upward adjustment with music.

Then, post Audyssey, once everything is dialed in for movies, we can work on getting music content to sound right. Are you listening to music with Dynamic EQ on? And Dynamic Volume off? Do you find that the source level is way off, e.g. when you switch from a movie to music the volume is either super low and you have to crank it up, or it is super loud and blows you out of the room?


Quote:
This may seem like a dumb question, but if I did want to add a second sub, would I just need an rca-y splitter? There is only 1 subwoofer preout.

correct, you would just need a simple RCA y-splitter.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #554 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 09:32 AM
Member
 
sokh1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nice, France
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokh1985 View Post

Well I tried my blu ray on toslink and hdmi but no sound either!

The only thing that is working besides what I said is my subwoofer turns on & the muting is recognized since the green led is blinking.

Plus no phone number for Denon in France on their website.

I've just sent an email to Denon USA. Hope they'll tell me what to do or at least take it for repair in France.

Because if I have to send it back and they also have to send it to me and there is a problem because of transportation, this could happen again.

On the manual it says limited warranty in the US but I think it would make sense if they took it in France, it's a worldwide company.

Shure did it for my earphones purchased in France while I was in the US and Apple did it for iPod purchased in the US when I was in France.

Well looks like my denon died. It's not even turning on now!!!
sokh1985 is offline  
post #555 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
sokh -- bummer dude!

JFriday -- one other thing I thought of with music, try listening with the "Restorer" on, I find mode 2 (Restorer 96) add a lot of bass/fullness to music.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #556 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 10:07 AM
Member
 
sokh1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nice, France
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well now I'm starting to think if it's not because of the electricity.

In europe it's 230v/50Hz
In the US, 120v/60Hz.

So maybe the amp just fried. Or maybe there's some kind of protection in it and that's why it doesn't turn on?

Anybody knows how the Denon Amp are inside?
If there is the transformer to change why not, it will probably be 200$ but still cheaper than paying for a new amp in Europe!
sokh1985 is offline  
post #557 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 02:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Adamman100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Got my Denon 1610 and have it all set up. I'm pretty good with this stuff, but I found setup to be surprisingly challenging. That said, I'm connecting some legacy equipment (tape deck) etc. I resolved it by stacking the RCAs on top of the optical for my CD player.

I ran Audyssey and experienced that boomy sound like crazy, but setting the reference to negative 15db really helped. Its not often I get the receiver up to zero anyway, so this makes sense. -15 is my reference.

I do have two questions:
My FL speaker came up as out of phase. I'm pretty sure this is due to placement and I can't do anything about that. I'd like to try simple switching the banana plugs and starting Audyssey again to see if the error persists, but I don't want to go through the whole set up process again if it doesn't.

Can I start the process and test the speakers without erasing my audessy settings, or does initiating auto-setup erase them?

Also, on page 33 of the manual it says, "Start the auto preset process" for automatically scanning for radio tuner signals. However, it doesn't say HOW to start the process. Am I missing something obvious?
Adamman100 is offline  
post #558 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
the "phase" error is simply a warning, if you have checked the wiring and everything is fine just ignore it and hit "skip" as you did. no need to switch the wires and start over unless they were wrong to begin with!

as you suspect, the warning can sometimes be induced by the acoustics of your room (happens to me every time with my right surround), so that is why it is just a warning.

I'm sorry but I can't help with the tuner, never use it!

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #559 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 03:31 PM
Member
 
JohnnyFriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Denison, IA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

JFriday -- one other thing I thought of with music, try listening with the "Restorer" on, I find mode 2 (Restorer 96) add a lot of bass/fullness to music.


Wel, I ran audyssy. It set my sub to -12, I know I should turn it down and rerun it but this was the rough run anyhow. I have it set for double bass via lfe+main. The re30s are "thumpier" and not as smooth as the f12... which I guess is kind of what I preferred. I played around with the restorer settings, the default was restorer 3. I switched through all 3 and off and didnt notice much difference, but I dont really have any 128kbps stuff, so maybe thats what its more useful for.

The magic suggestion was to try out turning off autovolume... which I thought coupled with replaygain would create nice unified volumes... HOW WRONG. Autovolume should not be engaged when listening to music as far as I can tell. It now sounds amazing. Im referencing with pink floyd flacs. The bass heavier stuff(hip hop) sounds much better, still not "overdone". Which there is a possibility that the music was not referenced with ridiculously high bass, perhaps I am just used to overdoing it.

These re30s now sound absolutely gorgeous, Time to check out battleflield 1943... someone else should verify for me that this game sounds ridiculous when it comes to LFE. Between the machine gun fire and the explosions, your bass is just outblown and it sounds like a test cd. (It outwashes all other sounds)

Oh, and thanks again BatPig. Ill throw a tenner your way for your site before the night is over.
JohnnyFriday is offline  
post #560 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 03:34 PM
Member
 
JohnnyFriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Denison, IA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Has anyone else noticed the IR sensor is ridiculously finicky at even slightly off angles? I haven't played shell games like these trying to adjust volume in a long time.
JohnnyFriday is offline  
post #561 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
oh geez, were you using Dynamic Volume for music? definite no-no!!

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #562 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Adamman100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the "phase" error is simply a warning, if you have checked the wiring and everything is fine just ignore it and hit "skip" as you did. no need to switch the wires and start over unless they were wrong to begin with!

as you suspect, the warning can sometimes be induced by the acoustics of your room (happens to me every time with my right surround), so that is why it is just a warning.

I'm sorry but I can't help with the tuner, never use it!

Thanks. I have another question. Is it true that I can't adjust parameters when playing music in 5.1 channel mode? I'd like to be able to adjust things like the LFE, center width, etc.
Adamman100 is offline  
post #563 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
no, it's not true. not sure where you got that impression.

the "Music" modes like Pro Logic II Music and DTS:Neo Music have adjustable parameters for center width, etc.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #564 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Adamman100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

no, it's not true. not sure where you got that impression.

the "Music" modes like Pro Logic II Music and DTS:Neo Music have adjustable parameters for center width, etc.

I really don't want Pro Logic for my 2 channel audio sources. I don't need that effect. I'm in surround mode: 5CH/7CH. Within that mode I don't seem to be able to adjust the LFE, or center width.
Adamman100 is offline  
post #565 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
first, there is no such thing as "LFE" with music sources. LFE only exists with discrete multichannel content, the ".1" track.

second, parameters like "center width" or "dimension" that exist in the music modes make no sense for 5CH STEREO. Those parameters control how much content is "extracted" from the 2 stereo channels, and then "steered" to the center / surrounds, but in 5CH STEREO mode there is no "extraction", only a duplication of the stereo content in all speakers.

So.....

1 - if you want to control the bass levels, adjust the subwoofer volume or play with the "restorer" modes; if you are using Dynamic EQ and bass is too boomy with music you should also experiment with the "Reference Level Offset" for Dynamic EQ, as it will lessen the "aggressiveness" of the boost that Dyn. EQ gives.

2 - if you want to change the amount of emphasis in center channel or surrounds, simply lower the individual speaker volumes. Speaker channel volumes are stored by surround mode, so you can fool around with 5CH STEREO mode and it won't screw up the discrete multichannel modes like DOLBY DIGITAL or DTS.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #566 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 05:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Adamman100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

first, there is no such thing as "LFE" with music sources. LFE only exists with discrete multichannel content, the ".1" track.

second, parameters like "center width" or "dimension" that exist in the music modes make no sense for 5CH STEREO. Those parameters control how much content is "extracted" from the 2 stereo channels, and then "steered" to the center / surrounds, but in 5CH STEREO mode there is no "extraction", only a duplication of the stereo content in all speakers.

So.....

1 - if you want to control the bass levels, adjust the subwoofer volume or play with the "restorer" modes; if you are using Dynamic EQ and bass is too boomy with music you should also experiment with the "Reference Level Offset" for Dynamic EQ, as it will lessen the "aggressiveness" of the boost that Dyn. EQ gives.

2 - if you want to change the amount of emphasis in center channel or surrounds, simply lower the individual speaker volumes. Speaker channel volumes are stored by surround mode, so you can fool around with 5CH STEREO mode and it won't screw up the discrete multichannel modes like DOLBY DIGITAL or DTS.

Thanks for your reply. Dolby is great for sound linked to video, but for my taste, it adds extra effects to stereo music that sound artificial to me.

So, in 5ch Mode: If I want to change the speaker levels, I go to Menu>manual setup>speaker setup>Channel Level?
I've been going to Menu>manual>audio setup

For Bass, I go to Menu>manual setup>Speaker Setup>Bass settings and choose between LFE or LFE+Main. (I like taking a little load off my mains.)

And these changes are linked to 5ch Mode and NOT the source selected?
Adamman100 is offline  
post #567 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
Quote:


So, in 5ch Mode: If I want to change the speaker levels, I go to Menu>manual setup>speaker setup>Channel Level?

no no, this will change speaker volumes GLOBALLY. See my FAQ, 4th question down:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html

you want to use the second method, it is initiated with the CH LEVEL button on your remote (described on pg 45 of the manual). then tweak the surrounds/center to taste.

if you use the Manual Setup > Channel Level method, it resets speaker levels for ALL surround modes.

Quote:


For Bass, I go to Menu>manual setup>Speaker Setup>Bass settings and choose between LFE or LFE+Main.

BTW -- this setting does NOT take any load off your mains, and it is only relevant when speakers are set to LARGE.

you should (ideally) have all speakers set to SMALL with a high enough crossover (80Hz+) that the sub is getting the deep bass.

that particular setting is also global.

The settings linked with a particular surround mode will be the speaker volumes, and anything in the "PARAMETER" menu (these are mode specific parameters).

Anything in the MANUAL SETUP menus will be GLOBAL.

Anything in the INPUT SETUP menu will be INPUT SPECIFIC.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #568 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 05:31 PM
Member
 
JohnnyFriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Denison, IA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Im a little confused about the ideally part when it comes to LFE+Main, if you have fronts with big enough woofers, would you be relegating them to mids and highs? Or do I need to break out a hz cd to figure out just how deep 80hz really is.
JohnnyFriday is offline  
post #569 of 5202 Old 09-03-2009, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,128
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 1101
it's really just the bottom octave of music. the lowest E-note on a bass guitar is approx. 41Hz, and every octave doubles the frequency, so 40-80Hz is approximately the bottom octave you would hear in music. there is still PLENTY of bass above 80Hz, all of the mid- and upper-bass will be above that.

also, with a crossover, there will be a slope (typically 12dB/octave) not a brick wall. that means that even with an 80Hz crossover the speaker will be asked to produce a decent amount of output for most of that bottom octave (40-80Hz).

this is a good read if you haven't done so yet:
http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #570 of 5202 Old 09-04-2009, 06:11 AM
Senior Member
 
rotelmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am confused about all the crossover thing. As i understand, when I am in multichannel listening mode, the receiver will use its internal crossover to cut off the low frequency and send it to the subwoofer. What about in stereo mode? Is the receiver will send all the frequency and the internal crossover of the subwoofer will cut off the frequency?
rotelmania is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr1610 5 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver With 1080p Hdmi Connectivity , Denon Avr590 5 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver
Gear in this thread - Avr590 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off