*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1610/590 owner's thread - Page 53 - AVS Forum
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post #1561 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazefrog View Post

rear surrounds (surround LR speaker posts).


Ryan -

Since this is a temporary "test" setup, why not simply hook up the two speakers you have to FRONT left/right? It will be much easier to confirm normal operation this way.

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post #1562 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 04:13 PM
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Just got my BIC V1020 hooked up, Power set to on, Input set to Digital, 5.1/6.1/7.1, 0 Phase, Volume 5, Crossover 120hz but I'm not getting any sound in any of the sound modes DTS,Dolby,Stereo, Direct.

Sub connected via RCA. Halp
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post #1563 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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have you actually told the receiver you have a subwoofer connected?

MANUAL SETUP > SPEAKER SETUP > SPEAKER CONFIG

Make sure SW is set to "yes" here.

Then, still in the SPEAKER SETUP menu, scroll down to CHANNEL LEVEL and run the test tones and see if the sub is rumbling.

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post #1564 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

have you actually told the receiver you have a subwoofer connected?

MANUAL SETUP > SPEAKER SETUP > SPEAKER CONFIG

Make sure SW is set to "yes" here.

Then, still in the SPEAKER SETUP menu, scroll down to CHANNEL LEVEL and run the test tones and see if the sub is rumbling.

Sub is set to yes, test tone produces rumble on the sub.
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post #1565 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

Sub connected via RCA. Halp

Why not let the Denon set it up for you using the AUTO SETUP procedure?

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post #1566 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 04:56 PM
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I am looking to purchase an AVR-590 in the near future. Has anyone seen a better deal on one other than at Best Buy for $349? They are offering the Acoustic Research (Audiovox) XSight remote as a package for $50 more but based on it's reviews I don't know if that is even worth it. Thoughts?
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post #1567 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF_TRobertson View Post

I am looking to purchase an AVR-590 in the near future. Has anyone seen a better deal on one other than at Best Buy for $349? They are offering the Acoustic Research (Audiovox) XSight remote as a package for $50 more but based on it's reviews I don't know if that is even worth it. Thoughts?

You can beat that price easily. Below is a link to Denons Authorized Online Dealers. I'd just go through and compare. I got mine at 6ave several months ago. Also you can sometimes get better pricing if you call.

http://www.usa.denon.com/OnlineETailers.asp
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post #1568 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Why not let the Denon set it up for you using the AUTO SETUP procedure?

I have it only hooked up in a 3.1 till I get my speaker stands for the other 2, will it still work?

I guess I could but still, I'd really like to know why the sub just is not responding to any settings.



Edit: I tried Auto setup and it stops after the subwoofer with FL and C Phase displayed on the screen. I reran it, then just C Phase displayed on the screen, I guess it didnt get a good reading? No sure what that means, sub still wont work, but works during test tones and Auto setup.


Edit 2: Just tried a dvd, sub does work but its extremely low, I opened it up to all freq. to 180hz and volume was maxed and I wave getting very low rumble on heavy bass scene, so it is working just extremely low.
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post #1569 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fors View Post

I had this happen on the dexter season finally the other night I had DVRd. So I was like WTF I just bought this denon and now this! I decided to test it since it was dvred I could get it at the spot it did it and rewind and see if it did it again, it did. So I got my old sony soundbar out and hooked it up in place of the denon, and it did it on that also, I changed the audio output on my DVR to 2 channel temporarily and it didnt do it, so deffinately not the receiver but the DVR. Now I have a samsung dvr but he may want to try changing the audio output and see if it still does it also, its probably not the receiver.

Excellent test. I wouldn't be surprised if it was my friend's DVR's fault. I hated that Motorola which is why I dumped it and got TiVo HD.
Thanks for passing along the test results.
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post #1570 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

I have it only hooked up in a 3.1 till I get my speaker stands for the other 2, will it still work?

Yes, it will still work with a 3.1 setup. In fact it would work with a 2.0 setup. After all, although it may be a 5.1 surround AVR, it's always going to be a stereo receiver at a bare minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

Edit: I tried Auto setup and it stops after the subwoofer with FL and C Phase displayed on the screen. I reran it, then just C Phase displayed on the screen.

Phase errors are common and can be ignored as long as you have verified that the wiring is correct from AVR to each speaker +/+ and -/-.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

Edit 2: Just tried a dvd, sub does work but its extremely low, I opened it up to all freq. to 180hz and volume was maxed and I wave getting very low rumble on heavy bass scene, so it is working just extremely low.

Perhaps you have a defective sub? After running AUTO SETUP, what did the Denon set for the sub trim (volume) setting? Keep in mind the sub generally only goes up to about 120hz, so "opening it up to 180hz" doesn't really do much. Also, either set the sub to LFE+MAIN or set your main speakers to SMALL with a crossover of 100hz.

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post #1571 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, it will still work with a 3.1 setup. In fact it would work with a 2.0 setup. After all, although it may be a 5.1 surround AVR, it's always going to be a stereo receiver at a bare minimum.



Phase errors are common and can be ignored as long as you have verified that the wiring is correct from AVR to each speaker +/+ and -/-.




Perhaps you have a defective sub? After running AUTO SETUP, what did the Denon set for the sub trim (volume) setting? Keep in mind the sub generally only goes up to about 120hz, so "opening it up to 180hz" doesn't really do much. Also, either set the sub to LFE+MAIN or set your main speakers to SMALL with a crossover of 100hz.

edit: found a much higher quality RCA cable and still the same result

Set cross over to 110hz manually, set sub to LFE+Main, still no sub in stereo. I thinking it might be the cable. I have a generic RCA cable that came with my blu ray player, I'll try to swap it once my cable arrives.

Thanks for the help so far. Anything else?
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post #1572 of 5197 Old 12-16-2009, 11:55 PM
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I'm surprised that none of you guys had anything to say about the f****d up volume control of the AVR 590. When pressing the up/down key in rapid succession,

1 press = .5 dB change
2 presses = 1 dB change
3 presses = 9 dB change (!)
4 presses = 13 dB change

If that's not a bug, then I don't know. Prospective buyers: Test the remote in a store to make sure you can live with it.
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post #1573 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

Thanks for the help so far. Anything else?

Run AUTO SETUP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rad View Post

If that's not a bug, then I don't know. Prospective buyers: Test the remote in a store to make sure you can live with it.

Never mentioned simply because there is no bug. If you hold the volume button down (which is what you're really doing), it will change faster then the usual 0.5 increment per individual press.

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post #1574 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Run AUTO SETUP.

I did run auto setup and it keeps stopping at C Phase or RL and C phase and nothing else. Auto Run does produce a very mild test tone sound on the sub. but its not on the level it should be, I know it should be a moderate rumble from it and its hardly audible unless you pay attention.

Keep in mind I'm not running an official sub cable, just a high quality RCA. Not sure if this could be a culprit. Still waiting on my monoprice order which is taking forever to get here.

I also did a full factory reset and redid all the steps outlined since I had the problem and still no dice. It feels like I'm just missing something, I find it hard to believe the sub could be bad.

Later when I get home I'm going to be swapping it out with my fathers passive sub. I'm going to hook it up via speaker wire to his old Onkyo and see if the sub and amp at least works and we can narrow it down to a cable/line in/receiver issue.
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post #1575 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 06:03 AM
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You should be able to run AUTO SETUP and, as long as the speakers are wired correctly, just press SKIP when you get the PHASE error. A yellow composite video cable is a suitable substitute for either a digatal coax or subwoofer cable.

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post #1576 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 07:27 AM
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Hahaha.
Found my problem:

I was too timid with the volume nob.

Everything works, and I'm impatient to get my LCR, run Audyssey, and get down to business. Soon. Soon.
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post #1577 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You should be able to run AUTO SETUP and, as long as the speakers are wired correctly, just press SKIP when you get the PHASE error. A yellow composite video cable is a suitable substitute for either a digatal coax or subwoofer cable.

Ok I didnt press the skip button. I just redid it or hit menu to back out when it approached that point. I guess thats why I didnt get any official readings from the Auto Setup.
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post #1578 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

edit: found a much higher quality RCA cable and still the same result

it's not the cable!!

Quote:


Set cross over to 110hz manually, set sub to LFE+Main, still no sub in stereo. I thinking it might be the cable.

just to be clear, do not confuse the crossover setting on the sub itself with the bass management in the receiver.

On your BIC sub, when the switch is in the "Dolby Digital" position the crossover on the sub is DEFEATED and the knob doesn't do anything! That switch allows you to bypass the crossover so the receiver can perform all the bass management digitally. If the speakers are still set to LARGE in the receiver (which is the default) the SW will not get any signal with most programming material, regardless of what you do with that crossover knob..

So with the switch in that position (DD 5.1/6.1/.7.1), make sure your other settings ON THE SUB are correct (volume at about 1/2 way, phase at 0) and then run the AUTO SETUP and report back what the subwoofer volume level comes out at. You can just do a one-position run on auto setup to save time, the first position is where it calculates all the distances and volumes to balance the system, the other 5 positions are just refining the EQ filters.

Don't worry if the "thumps" from the SW sound soft during auto setup. Just do it and then check and see what the AVR sets your channel level on for the SW channel. And also make sure all speakers are set to SMALL with a crossover of at least 80Hz.

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post #1579 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

it's not the cable!!



just to be clear, do not confuse the crossover setting on the sub itself with the bass management in the receiver.

On your BIC sub, when the switch is in the "Dolby Digital" position the crossover on the sub is DEFEATED and the knob doesn't do anything! That switch allows you to bypass the crossover so the receiver can perform all the bass management digitally. If the speakers are still set to LARGE in the receiver (which is the default) the SW will not get any signal with most programming material, regardless of what you do with that crossover knob..

After reading the BIC directions last night I realized that and tried both settings. All speakers have been set to small.

Quote:


So with the switch in that position (DD 5.1/6.1/.7.1), make sure your other settings ON THE SUB are correct (volume at about 1/2 way, phase at 0) and then run the AUTO SETUP and report back what the subwoofer volume level comes out at. You can just do a one-position run on auto setup to save time, the first position is where it calculates all the distances and volumes to balance the system, the other 5 positions are just refining the EQ filters.

Don't worry if the "thumps" from the SW sound soft during auto setup. Just do it and then check and see what the AVR sets your channel level on for the SW channel. And also make sure all speakers are set to SMALL with a crossover of at least 80Hz.

I will do this as soon as I get home. I'll double check to make sure speakers are small, make sure the xover is set there and I'll run it again. Once I hit skip after the phase messages I should be able to go into Channel Level and find the settings that Auto Setup created.

Thank you for the help.
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post #1580 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll double check to make sure speakers are small, make sure the xover is set there and I'll run it again.

No need to do this -- Audyssey ignores all your settings as the whole point is to figure out the optimal settings for you. AFTER you run Audyssey you may need to check the speaker config and make manual adjustments (e.g. raising the crossover if it's lower than 80Hz) but you don't need to do anything in the receiver beforehand.

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post #1581 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 10:26 AM
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Just picked up my AVR-590 this afternoon from Best Buy (who price matched it). I am eager to get this thing setup - is there anything I should know/do before testing it out tonight? I started to read through the 50 some odd pages in this thread and got dizzy. So far I am just running it to four 6 1/2" Monoprice in-wall speakers (going to run a phantom center for the time being). I am also planning on ordering the PA-120 subwoofer after the Holidays. Hopefully this will be a nice budget setup!
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post #1582 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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just follow my setup guide and you should be good to go (see the link in my signature, below). let us know if you have any questions...

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post #1583 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 01:41 PM
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Ok quick question, I am playing my first blu-ray movie since setting this up, I set my panasonic BD60 to bitstream, here is my question. I can hit the "D/ST" button on the dneon remote and on the display on the AVR it says Direct and DTS Master blue light is on. NOw I can also hit "STD" on the remote and it says DTS-HD MA on the AVR display and the blue master HD light is on as well. So which mode should I be in for best sound?
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post #1584 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Standard.

Direct mode bypasses all processing, including Audyssey, bass management... so you are losing out on all the goodness of the processing this receiver can do for surround sound. Plus if you don't have big speakers, you can damage them by sending a full range signal (since you aren't getting any bass management). It is really intended more for music "purists" who want to listen to un-processed sound on large, high-end speakers.

See my FAQ to learn more: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio

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post #1585 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 02:53 PM
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Ran Audyssey and it made a big difference.

SW is set to +3.5db and I could hear it in a lot more of the programing. Not sure if I'm totally happy with it though. It seems to be a little bit boomy but that could be settings I have yet to adjust. All speakers are set to small which default them to hz. I bumped them to 110hz. Audyssey put the L R at +1.5 and the center at 2.0 I think. It seemed to have created a bit more of a disparity between the sub and sats. I'm not sure what normal settings are for the sub but I'm thinking about putting the speaker settings back down to 80 hz or drop the sub down to 80-100hz to smooth it out a bit. It sounds nice though and I appreciate all the help.

For the most accurate sound, Is it better to raise the +db on the sub and turn down the sub volume or turn up the sub volume and turn downt he db?

I also have the port facing me, I'm thinking I dont like it as much that way, I'm going to experiment with the position so I cant clearly pick out the rumble cause right now I can.
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post #1586 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Audyssey put the L R at +1.5 and the center at 2.0 I think. It seemed to have created a bit more of a disparity between the sub and sats.

don't change the volumes, that is just what is necessary to balance all the speakers. It is not creating any "disparity". The sub/sat blend is going to be determined by the crossover frequency, but most importantly the positioning of the sub and how it interacts with your room acoustics.

Quote:
SW is set to +3.5db and I could hear it in a lot more of the programing. Not sure if I'm totally happy with it though. It seems to be a little bit boomy but that could be settings I have yet to adjust.

the primary cause of boominess is poor positioning of the sub -- if you have time, you may want to experiment with different positions and see if another spot provides smoother response. Also, if you didn't yet, running all 6 positions will give Audyssey MultEQ more data to work with in smoothing low-end response.

if the boominess is only with cable TV programming (and movies sound fine), you should lower the Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset (Parameters > Audyssey Settings) down to -10dB. This will lessen the aggressiveness of the "boost" that Dynamic EQ is doing to your sub.

Quote:
I'm not sure what normal settings are for the sub but I'm thinking about putting the speaker settings back down to 80 hz

What speakers do you have? There are no "normal" settings, the point of the Audyssey system is to measure the response of YOUR speakers in YOUR room (not any spec on paper), so don't assume 80Hz is the "best" setting for your specific setup.

Quote:
or drop the sub down to 80-100hz to smooth it out a bit.

Don't touch the knobs on the sub after running Audyssey. The crossover is bypassed and all the bass managment is controlled by the crossover freq. you set for the speakers.

Quote:
For the most accurate sound, Is it better to raise the +db on the sub and turn down the sub volume or turn up the sub volume and turn downt he db?

Neither is more "accurate", the combination of the digital signal gain and the sub's amp gain will produce the same SPL in the room (assuming you equalize the volume after fiddling). But as I said above, after Audyssey you do NOT want to touch the knobs on the sub. If you want to tweak the bass, adjust the SW channel level in the AVR.

Quote:
I also have the port facing me, I'm thinking I dont like it as much that way, I'm going to experiment with the position so I cant clearly pick out the rumble cause right now I can.

What sub do you have? In general, the port should face a wall (ideally with at least a foot of separation to prevent boominess).

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post #1587 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

don't change the volumes, that is just what is necessary to balance all the speakers. It is not creating any "disparity". The sub/sat blend is going to be determined by the crossover frequency, but most importantly the positioning of the sub and how it interacts with your room acoustics.



the primary cause of boominess is poor positioning of the sub -- if you have time, you may want to experiment with different positions and see if another spot provides smoother response. Also, if you didn't yet, running all 6 positions will give Audyssey MultEQ more data to work with in smoothing low-end response.

if the boominess is only with cable TV programming (and movies sound fine), you should lower the Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset (Parameters > Audyssey Settings) down to -10dB. This will lessen the aggressiveness of the "boost" that Dynamic EQ is doing to your sub.



What speakers do you have? There are no "normal" settings, the point of the Audyssey system is to measure the response of YOUR speakers in YOUR room (not any spec on paper), so don't assume 80Hz is the "best" setting for your specific setup.



Don't touch the knobs on the sub after running Audyssey. The crossover is bypassed and all the bass managment is controlled by the crossover freq. you set for the speakers.



Neither is more "accurate", the combination of the digital signal gain and the sub's amp gain will produce the same SPL in the room (assuming you equalize the volume after fiddling). But as I said above, after Audyssey you do NOT want to touch the knobs on the sub. If you want to tweak the bass, adjust the SW channel level in the AVR.



What sub do you have? In general, the port should face a wall (ideally with at least a foot of separation to prevent boominess).


Bat, thank you very much for you help. I've ran the full Audyssey auto adjust and the system sounds great. I didnt mess with any settings other then toying with the sub a bit. I have another set of speakers (TSC p5's) and ran it again to compare which I like better but both times the sub was between +3 and +5db and the sound is perfect. Its very subtle but on parts where it counts system SHINES.

The Sub I'm using is a BIC V1020, I knew I had 2 sets of speakers to compensate for and I read a lot of positive reviews stating its punchy and can hit low and I can vouch for that now.

I popped in Star Trek and just had a smile on my face when the Enterprise warped into combat (if you know the movie). I also turned the subs port to face into the tv stand, rather then firing at me. HUGE improvement on sound. There is about 3-4" of clearance there but it turned the sub from muddy to specific with 0 localization. I know having it to the wall is ideal but I have people in the surrounding rooms that I try not to disturb, but damn. This is a kick ass system.

The full 6 level run is what really did it. I was only doing 1 before. I must say the TSC P5's are an amazing set, possibly better price/performance then that Energy set, but I'll have a full review in my VS. thread.

Thank again bat. I've saved this info you gave me in a word doc on my desktop incase I even need to refer back to it.
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post #1588 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4me View Post

Bat, thank you very much for you help. I've ran the full Audyssey auto adjust and the system sounds great. I didnt mess with any settings other then toying with the sub a bit. I have another set of speakers (TSC p5's) and ran it again to compare which I like better but both times the sub was between +3 and +5db and the sound is perfect. Its very subtle but on parts where it counts system SHINES.

And thank you Audio4me, I followed your other thread and also ordered the 1610 which is presently in transit (According to FedEx) and should be here Saturday. I also printed out Batpig's word file and have it ready for when my system arrives. I have put my old Pioneer system on Criag's list and hope to sell it this weekend. And I have been following your installation and setup and hopefully know what I need to do when mine arrives. I have already turned my sub around to face the wall and I didn't know that before. Thanks again and enjoy your new Denon.

Bob
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post #1589 of 5197 Old 12-17-2009, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by blynott View Post

And thank you Audio4me, I followed your other thread and also ordered the 1610 which is presently in transit (According to FedEx) and should be here Saturday. I also printed out Batpig's word file and have it ready for when my system arrives. I have put my old Pioneer system on Criag's list and hope to sell it this weekend. And I have been following your installation and setup and hopefully know what I need to do when mine arrives. I have already turned my sub around to face the wall and I didn't know that before. Thanks again and enjoy your new Denon.

That word file is a lifesaver! I deffinately would have asked alot more questions then I have if I didnt use that when setting mine up!
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post #1590 of 5197 Old 12-18-2009, 05:37 AM
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Can someone provide more information on what "Offest" on the status display means? I have seen anywhere from -4dB to -11dB with Dolby Digital sources.

I have read that "it is the DD Dialog Normalization Factor and is set by the source signal."

I am bitstreaming from a Panasonic BD-35. Shouldn't the bitstreamed signal be unprocessed by the player? Or is the Offest determined by the source material?

I have verified that all dynamic range compression settings are "off."

Thanks in advance.
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