*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 1610/590 owner's thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauz20 View Post

hi,

i just got my denon 1610 a couple of days and got everything setup. i noticed that there were analog audio outs (one was called vcr, if i remember correctly). i connected a pair of my speakers there but couldn't get any sounds for it. i've looked around the remote and settings but couldn't find any way to change the output.

am i doing something wrong? i'm pretty new to using avr's. previously, i would only get those htib ones.

thanks in advance!

You connected speakers to analog audio outs? Only connect speakers to the speaker binding posts.
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post #152 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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he might have had an HTIB with some RCA-type plug for the speakers....

mauz20 -- see pg 11-12 of your manual for information on how to connect a speaker with normal speaker wire to your AVR

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post #153 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 09:25 AM
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oh. looks like what i'm trying to do is not possible?
in pg6, the area pointed out by #5 at the bottom says out to "vcr" and "dvr". i thought that it would be possible to connect these to a pair of speakers that use these rca ports.
my wife prefers that i use these lower-powered speakers when i play games at night. previously, i connected these speakers to audio outs of the tv. i took them out from the tv and connected them to the avr instead since i was expecting that it might be possible to output the sound to these analog audio outs if i wanted to
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post #154 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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gotcha, so these are powered (active) speakers right?

are these your ONLY speakers or are these just a secondary pair that you will use for late-night viewing?

you can use the REC OUT analog outputs to feed another device, but the Denon does not cross-convert audio formats so you would have to "double connect" a 2-ch RCA analog connection (red/white) for any device which is currently hooked up digitally (HDMI or optical/coax). Then, set the "REC OUT" to "Source" and it will output the audio of the current source to the analog outs.

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post #155 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 11:57 AM
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one question, i cannot use the 2 channel Preouts as front for 5.1 am right? (to add an extra amp for front speakers when needed)
if im wrong, ill return my avr-789 today and get the 590.
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post #156 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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you are correct, the 2 "pre outs" on the 1610/590 model are ONLY designed for 7.1 expansion, e.g. adding "rears" or "heights" for PLIIx/z processing. you cannot use them to power the front L/R speakers.

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post #157 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 02:51 PM
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This forum and thread has been the decider for me. I'm noob so thanks to all, especially batpig (I've printed out the Denon manifesto for use this coming weekend).

My 590 is on the way to join a new Sammy 52B630, Sony 360, and Polk RM6750's. None real high end but this is for a very large bedroom. One piece missing -- a Harmony remote. Have they caught up with the '09 models or is there any catching up to do?

Also, will be connecting with a Comcast/Motorola DCT-6200/3000. Any known handshake issues using HDMI?
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post #158 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 02:57 PM
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Quote:


One piece missing -- a Harmony remote.

Right now Amazon has the Harmony 670 (Refurbished) for 34.99 fs.
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post #159 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 04:12 PM
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Excellent, but do they work? I tried the Harmony compatibility check for the 590 and got no love. Same codes as the 1690 perhaps?
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post #160 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll say it again: ALL DENONS USE THE SAME IR CODES SO IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH DEVICE PROFILE YOU USE.

Harmony's work with ANYTHING that uses IR. The new models may not be in the database yet, but I guarantee the Harmony remote will work!!

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post #161 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 04:46 PM
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Apologies if this has been answered:

I setup my 1610 the other day and one thing I noticed that I DO NOT like is that the speaker channel levels are the same across all inputs. With my 10 year old denon, TV had its own speaker levels, DVD had its own, etc. With the 1610, if I turn off the sub on one input, the sub is off on all inputs.

Please let me know if I'm missing something, as I hope I am.
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post #162 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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no you aren't. Speaker channel volumes are stored BY SURROUND MODE and not by input.

however, Audyssey EQ settings are stored by input, so you should be able to achieve some flexibility by manipulating the EQ / Dynamic EQ/Volume settings. E.g. have Dynamic Volume on EVENING for the TV input, but have Dynamic Volume off when watching Blu-Rays, etc.

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post #163 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 04:54 PM
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Thanks batpig. I looked hard for the first time or even the second time you said that about the Harmony remote codes, but I didn't find it. Anyway, I've ordered the 670 refurb. I have 3 older 659's on other systems so I'm sold on the product.
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post #164 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

gotcha, so these are powered (active) speakers right?

are these your ONLY speakers or are these just a secondary pair that you will use for late-night viewing?

you can use the REC OUT analog outputs to feed another device, but the Denon does not cross-convert audio formats so you would have to "double connect" a 2-ch RCA analog connection (red/white) for any device which is currently hooked up digitally (HDMI or optical/coax). Then, set the "REC OUT" to "Source" and it will output the audio of the current source to the analog outs.

yup, these are active speakers and they're just a 2ndary pair for late night viewing.
i'm not sure if i'm missing anything out from the manual or the remote, but i can't seem to find any "rec out" option. i'll double-check when i get home
thanks!
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post #165 of 5196 Old 07-10-2009, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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actually, I'm sorry, I just realized the 1610 doesn't have any "REC OUT" source select as it has no multizone / multisource functionality, it will just automatically output whatever source is playing out the audio OUT as long as it has an analog audio input to work with.

So just "double connect" your sources with analog RCA cables and it should work then.

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post #166 of 5196 Old 07-11-2009, 04:35 AM
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not sure if i'm doing something wrong or if i should do any settings, but it still won't work. o well... guess i'll just have to use a pair of headphones or something. thanks for the help tho
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post #167 of 5196 Old 07-11-2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnavycdr View Post

Also, will be connecting with a Comcast/Motorola DCT-6200/3000. Any known handshake issues using HDMI?

Read back a few pages in the thread... we have a discussion on this, and I have a link to a nice Wiki on the Moto DVRs which lists bugs and setup tips, etc.
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post #168 of 5196 Old 07-12-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'll say it again: ALL DENONS USE THE SAME IR CODES SO IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH DEVICE PROFILE YOU USE.

Harmony's work with ANYTHING that uses IR. The new models may not be in the database yet, but I guarantee the Harmony remote will work!!

Batpig, I am having trouble setting up my new Harmony 610 to change inputs on the 1610. I only have two activities set up - watch TV (Directv HR23-700 HDDVR) and Watch Movie (Toshiba SDK-990 DVD player). When I hit watch Movie, the receiver goes to the correct input, which Harmony software called DVD/VDP, which is linked to HDMI 1 of the 1610. However, when I hit Watch TV, the receiver will not switch inputs. I am thinking I do not have the proper input set, according to the Harmony software. They do not give options such as simply HDMI 1, 2 or 3. They label them as DVD/VDP, VCR1, VCR2, V. Aux, TV/DBS. I assumed that since the HDMI 3 input on the actual receiver is labeled as CBL/SAT, that TV/DBS is the right input to use for HDMI 3. Of course, it is not. I even tried removing the 1610 and using the 1609 in my setup, but that did not work either. Do you know which of the listed Harmony software input labels match up to HDMI 3 input on the 1610? Why Harmony can't just label the input choices as HDMI1, 2, 3 and component 1 , 2, etc, is beyond me. I have a much more complicated setup in my family room with Rotel Pre/pro, amp, & line conditioner, Oppo DVD, HK CD player, and Direct TV HDDVR, and the Harmony software had not one problem with the setup. SO, I am basically wondering what HDMI 3 input is according to Harmony?
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post #169 of 5196 Old 07-12-2009, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gusbuf View Post

Batpig, I am having trouble setting up my new Harmony 610 to change inputs on the 1610. I only have two activities set up - watch TV (Directv HR23-700 HDDVR) and Watch Movie (Toshiba SDK-990 DVD player). When I hit watch Movie, the receiver goes to the correct input, which Harmony software called DVD/VDP, which is linked to HDMI 1 of the 1610. However, when I hit Watch TV, the receiver will not switch inputs. I am thinking I do not have the proper input set, according to the Harmony software. They do not give options such as simply HDMI 1, 2 or 3. They label them as DVD/VDP, VCR1, VCR2, V. Aux, TV/DBS. I assumed that since the HDMI 3 input on the actual receiver is labeled as CBL/SAT, that TV/DBS is the right input to use for HDMI 3. Of course, it is not. I even tried removing the 1610 and using the 1609 in my setup, but that did not work either. Do you know which of the listed Harmony software input labels match up to HDMI 3 input on the 1610? Why Harmony can't just label the input choices as HDMI1, 2, 3 and component 1 , 2, etc, is beyond me. I have a much more complicated setup in my family room with Rotel Pre/pro, amp, & line conditioner, Oppo DVD, HK CD player, and Direct TV HDDVR, and the Harmony software had not one problem with the setup. SO, I am basically wondering what HDMI 3 input is according to Harmony?

the software devs of harmony try to follow what's actually in the remote of the denon. and denon also doesn't name their inputs as "hdmi 1, hdmi 2, etc". i also got annoyed with this and it took a while for me to realize what i needed to do.
iirc, this is how i did it a couple of days ago when i setup my harmony 525:
- set your harmony to the avr device (not the activity) and go in front of the avr
- test ALL the preset inputs from the harmony software and take note of which ones is what you really need
- go to the harmony software and setup the activity. when it asks you what the input of the avr should be, click "other"
- you will see a list of inputs. delete everything that you don't need
- i believe there should be an option to rename the inputs. do that. it will help a lot
- when you go setup the next activities, you should see the user-friendly inputs instead of the preset ones from harmony

hope this helps!
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post #170 of 5196 Old 07-12-2009, 07:16 PM
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mauz20, your trick worked. The geniuses at Harmony do not have a direct input listed for "Dbs/Sat" even though that is what HDMI 3 is. However, in the soft keys assigned to the LCD screen, they have Dbs/Sat listed on page 3 or 4 of the soft button commands. I pressed it, and there was my beautiful Directv HD picture and sound. I had to manually add the Dbs/Sat input and reassign the button command for Harmony's "Tv/Sat label." But that did the trick. Thanks. Can someone now please tell Harmony, and Denon, to get with the program and make things easier for us consumers who pay good money to buy their product?!
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post #171 of 5196 Old 07-13-2009, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I nominate you.

Anyway, Denon does not use "HDMI-1", "HDMI-2", etc. for their input names, so it wouldn't make any sense for Harmony to put it that way in their database. There is NO SUCH THING as the "input for HDMI-3" because all of your inputs are ASSIGNABLE. As I explain in my setup guide, the only thing you should be worried about when configuring your inputs is WHAT NAME YOU WANT TO USE, and then you map the inputs as you need.

So you see, it makes zero sense to have "HDMI-3" in the Harmony database.... first off, who knows if there are even three HDMI inputs on a given Denon? Or what HDMI-3 is? If you want, say, the "VCR" input... well, that could be HDMI-1, it could be HDMI-2... it could be "Component-1"... plus "Optical-1:... or maybe it's an S-Video input plus "Coax-2". Who knows? Or let's say you have an "HDMI-3" command.... at the flip of a setting in the menu, HDMI-3 could be the VCR

As I say again and again, ALL OF THE DENON IR CODES ARE THE SAME ACROSS MODELS. So Harmony just reproduces a known set of commands in their database for the various models, but it's up to you to figure out exactly what everything does. At various times in the Denon history, they have had inputs labeled various things, and Harmony just accumulates the codes. Sometimes Denon changes their naming nomenclature (e.g. "TV/DBS" vs "CBL/SAT" vs "TV/CBL" or whatever) but the IR codes stay the same... you just may have to play around a bit and figure out what each one actually corresponds to. They support tens of thousands of devices and not everything is going to be 100% perfectly set up in their databases, it's a very powerful tool with a lot of setup flexibility and it's up to you to play with things and set them up correctly.

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post #172 of 5196 Old 07-13-2009, 07:54 AM
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Batpig, I hear what you are saying. I know the inputs are assignable. For me, I have a very basic setup, with only two hdmi cables going in, and one coming out. Thus, I simply used HDMI 1 (Denon labeled as DVD) to hook up my DVD player, and HDMI 3 (Denon labeled as Sat/Cbl) to make it easy on myself. Problems arose when I was programming the harmony software, and there was no listing at all for the Sat/Cbl input. The closest they had listed was "TV/Sat" Which it turned out was not the correct input. And even when I figured it out, Denon still makes things confusing as they have the input on the rear labeled as Sat/Cbl, but the command and label on the lcd of the receiver says "dbs/Sat." And Harmony further confused things from the beginning by having neither of those labels listed. This is confusing. I think these Japanese and Korean tech and consumer electronics companies need to work on making things make sense the first time you try to do things. I think that involves having English-as-a-first-language speaking engineers for English speaking markets like the USA.
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post #173 of 5196 Old 07-13-2009, 08:07 AM
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I hate to be the one to do this but can we keep this thread on topic? (ie. discussing the 590/1610). The Harmony issue isn't something specific to this model so it shouldn't even be in this thread. Thanks.
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post #174 of 5196 Old 07-13-2009, 08:17 AM
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I don't believe this is off topic. I own a 1610. I recently tried to program my harmony remote to control it. I had problems and looked for help and to share my experience here, as there are sure to be others who own these receivers and also own harmony remotes. The discussion I started has not morphed into a discussion of Harmony remote controls. It is a discussion of the remote as it relates to using it with the 590/1610. IMO, it is not off topic at all. I think owners of these receivers such as myself, come to this board for help and advice in all areas of using these two receivers.
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post #175 of 5196 Old 07-13-2009, 09:30 AM
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Gotta stop lurking and chime in as well...

Setup my 1610 over the weekend and went to program my 676. When I couldn't find the corresponding inputs in the Harmony setup software, I did a search and ended up here.

First off, I am ecstatic to find this thread and mad props to BP for providing such a wealth of information! Second, thanks to all for the info on the remote issue. I was able to my Harmony working properly with all my equipment (Xbox, Xbox360, PS3, HTPC). Last, I would think any discussion involving getting all your components setup properly with your Denon is fair game.

So keep it coming!
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post #176 of 5196 Old 07-13-2009, 11:09 AM
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Sorry, I guess you're right.
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post #177 of 5196 Old 07-14-2009, 02:00 PM
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I have downloaded and read Batpig's terrific setup guide and will be setting up a fairly straight forward HD cable, Blu Ray, Sammy LN52B630 using only HDMI to my new 590 tomorrow. I am unclear on a couple of things and didn't see (but might have missed) how to handle the following:

1. Sub connection to a Polk RM6750. The sub has L&R inputs. Does a single RCA connection to either the L or R suffice or do I need a single-to-Y cable for the sub? I've not bought speaker cables as yet.

2. Both the Denon and Batpig's setup guides make note that HDMI will not pass the OSD. Is this true for setup and Auddyssy and if so, should I run an RCA composite video connection while doing setup in order to view the OSD on the screen rather than try to read the receiver?

I too appreciate the posts on the Harmony functions as I will be progaraming a 670 after the system setup is done and functioning.
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post #178 of 5196 Old 07-14-2009, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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1. check your sub's manual, generally subs with dual inputs have one (typically Left) which is designed for a mono (LFE) connection. you can also split the signal with a simple RCA y-cable if you so choose.

2. that is actually not true on the new models -- the 1610/590 should show OSD over HDMI, it just will not OVERLAY on top of the image (rather, the screen will blank out briefly and the OSD will come up). You are fine with your single HDMI connection to the display, this is one of the big improvements on the new 1610/590 model vs last year's 1609/589.

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post #179 of 5196 Old 07-14-2009, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

2. that is actually not true on the new models -- the 1610/590 should show OSD over HDMI, it just will not OVERLAY on top of the image (rather, the screen will blank out briefly and the OSD will come up)....

I can vouch for this...functions exactly as batpig describes
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post #180 of 5196 Old 07-14-2009, 02:59 PM
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Thanks, Batpig. The manual isn't clear but it appears that L is preferred. And thanks for the clarification on the OSD. I'll post when/if I get everything up and running right. If not, then sooner.
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