Denon AVR-4310CI Thread - Page 161 - AVS Forum
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post #4801 of 5307 Old 01-22-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I suspect it's an HDMI handshaking issue that you can't do anything about.

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Originally Posted by yasmin6969 View Post

There isn't any problem with your equipment, I think it's the normal behaviour of hdmi. When you turn on/off the TV, you change the hdmi chain (AppleTV-4310-TV) and it has to be restablished.
This happens also to me with my Samsung UE55B7200 TV and LG BD390 bluray player. This doesn't happen when I stream music directly with the 4310, because the source is not hdmi connected.

Thanks for the quick replies. I guess I'll just have to live with it. Apple's support page says this could happen, but their suggestions are more involved than hitting buttons on the remote.
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post #4802 of 5307 Old 01-23-2012, 11:43 AM
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I was thinking about getting anti-mode 8033. Anyone have this set up with 4310ci and do you like.

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post #4803 of 5307 Old 01-23-2012, 11:53 AM
 
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No idea what it is so, no...
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post #4804 of 5307 Old 01-23-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jsil View Post

I was thinking about getting anti-mode 8033. Anyone have this set up with 4310ci and do you like.

This is not specific to the 4310, as it applies to any MultEQXT-equipped product. The anti-mode 8033 bass EQ system is a popular option for folks who don't have MultEQXT and don't have bass traps. As XT devotes considerable EQ power to the sub channel it usually does a pretty fine job by itself, so you should not need the anti-mode.

So here's some questions.
Have you run Autosetup and followed the Audyssey setup guide?
Why do you feel you want/need more bass EQ on top of XT?
How many subs do you have?
Have you done a sub crawl? (This is less expensive and often more effective than added EQ as it lessens room modes by optimizing sub placement. Measurements, if you have the means, are better than by ear.)

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #4805 of 5307 Old 01-23-2012, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wile.E.Coyote View Post

Hi All,

I've been trolling this site for a few years and find it extremely helpful. For example, I just learned I can run optical for zone2, which is a HUGE relief.

I had my NIC replaced under warranty two weeks ago, so I'm a happier camper now. FWIW, the NJ service center had the part in stock and turned the unit around in just a few days.

A quick search on my current issue didn't produce much, so here is my question:

I have a 2nd gen AppleTV connected via HDMI into my 4310, which connects via HDMI to a Panasonic TC-P50X1C TV. Whenever I turn the TV on or off while streaming music, the audio drops out until I hit pause/play on the remote to start it up again (the ATV display indicates it's playing the entire time). The Rx & TV have "HDMI control" turned off. Should one or both be on? Could this be related to the HDMI cable between the Rx & TV? It's a good quality cable, but it's 12 ft long. Any other suggestions?

Thanks much!

Yes, to me whenever I turn the TV on/off and whenever Im streaming something in zone 2 and my WIFE turn on/off the main zone.

In both cases the audio is lost. Many times I must to reset the ATV to recover the AirPlay capability (annoying), since the most of the time I stream from my iPhone.

Anyway, when that happen to you, are you streaming from your iTunes library? Or from any IOS device?

Have you ever need to reboot ATV or always the trick on the remote solve the situation?
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post #4806 of 5307 Old 01-23-2012, 07:53 PM
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Thanks for the reply. Just checking to see if anyone had used anti-mode 8033.

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post #4807 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 07:58 AM
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Hello Everybody,

Like I´ve said in other previous posts I have a set of Polk Blackstone TL250 + DSW 440 sub attached to my 4310. For some circunstance I feel that they aren´t every good I´d like to be. But maybe the sub is OK for now...

I feel that the 4310 deserves something better, so now that I´m moving to a bigger house, I starting to think in how to improve this situation. However, I don´t think I´ll have the chance to add floorstandings (wife constraints), so I would like to know your suggestions in order to get my new speakers.

Could be bookshelves or something size friendly for a medium room. And to be sincerely clear I want to go in other direction than Polk. From the past 7 years I´ve used Polk, so I would like to discover something new.

I´ve saw sets from Martin Logan, Klipsch, KEF and Energy and a universe of bookshelves. But I´ve really want to take the experience to the next level, and I´m so confusing about the way to go.

I use 50% HT and 50% music.


I´d like to know your advice and have your help to decide.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!
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post #4808 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlyz View Post

...However, I don´t think I´ll have the chance to add floorstandings (wife constraints), so I would like to know your suggestions in order to get my new speakers.
Could be bookshelves or something size friendly for a medium room. And to be sincerely clear I want to go in other direction than Polk...

Stereophile Mag has a steady stream of reviews of exc and affordable bookshelf speakers. BTW, often for best results they are best placed not on a bookshelf but on stands. But If WAF allows no floorspace, so be it. For HT, you'd want 5 identical for 5.1, or a model line that has timbre-matched CC/surrounds available.

For really top "next level" performance at surprisingly affordable prices contact Jim Salk about your needs. I suggest you email him a pic of your room, where you want the speakers positioned (close to a wall means front ported design is needed) and a rough budget. This speaker is intriquing, for ex., as is the new WOW1 model I just heard and posted on here.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #4809 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post


Stereophile Mag has a steady stream of reviews of exc and affordable bookshelf speakers. BTW, often for best results they are best placed not on a bookshelf but on stands. But If WAF allows no floorspace, so be it. For HT, you'd want 5 identical for 5.1, or a model line that has timbre-matched CC/surrounds available.

For really top "next level" performance at surprisingly affordable prices contact Jim Salk about your needs. I suggest you email him a pic of your room, where you want the speakers positioned (close to a wall means front ported design is needed) and a rough budget. This speaker is intriquing, for ex., as is the new WOW1 model I just heard and posted on here.

Wow, you just have me introduced in a whole new world. Never heard about Jim...
The products looks great, does the sound is great too? Are the products locally produced?

Pls tell me more

Thanks!
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post #4810 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 10:27 AM
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Yes they are handcrafted here in MI by talented, dedicated folks with integrity. They are marketed mostly online. With Salk, IMO you get premium fit, finish and SQ for about 1/2-1/3 less than you'd pay for something of similar design from a big speaker company. Their reputation is sterling. Plus Jim will personally assess your needs and advise you honestly. But often you have to wait weeks for your speakers as they are mostly done to order, even if std finish.

When you went to my post in the AVS Salk I linked to above, you may not have read the very next post by the designer of many Salk speakers, Dennis Murphy. He links to pics on this thread of the SMAC meet at the factory this past Sat.

On the Salk website is this Forum link to a number of other Salk-related threads on AudioCircle. warning: the enthusiasm of the fan base (well-deserved IMO) is infectious.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #4811 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Yes they are handcrafted here in MI by talented, dedicated folks with integrity. They are marketed mostly online. With Salk, IMO you get premium fit, finish and SQ for about 1/2-1/3 less than you'd pay for something of similar design from a big speaker company. Their reputation is sterling. Plus Jim will personally assess your needs and advise you honestly. But often you have to wait weeks for your speakers as they are mostly done to order, even if std finish.

When you went to my post in the AVS Salk I linked to above, you may not have read the very next post by the designer of many Salk speakers, Dennis Murphy. He links to pics on this thread of the SMAC meet at the factory this past Sat.

On the Salk website is this Forum link to a number of other Salk-related threads on AudioCircle. warning: the enthusiasm of the fan base (well-deserved IMO) is infectious.

I saw this link, just wondering how they are driving those speakers in the demo day.

My concern is about they need something more specific to drive those speakers really well than the 4310

Do you think 4310 is ok?
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post #4812 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 11:37 AM
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OK, first off, sorry I hadn't looked up your speakers. I had the Polk RT800i towers, C400 CC and a $350 Polk 10" sub. That combo really did not show off the capability of the 4310 at all. It was well-suited to the 2809, a far less expensive AVR. It will not be hard to improve on those tiny, inexpensive Polks! Have you established an upgrade budget yet?

You bring up an exc point. It would be better to talk with Jim about your room, seating distance, volume you listen and take that all into consideration irt any model's sensitivity and rated ohms. Note tha the 4310 handles 6-16 ohms very well but a whole array of inefficient 4 ohm speakers driven near reference would likely require the addition of something like an Emotiva XPA2 or 3 (another $600-800).

I'm not at all suggesting that WOW are the speakers for you and your 4310. Per the new WOW thread they are only 84dB sens which is very low-if they are 4Ohm you'd better plan on adding at least an XPA3. And 5 of those speakers would cost close to $3K.

As to amp driving the WOWs at the show, in the AC thread on the meet you'll see this post by the amp designer/builder, Frank Van Alstine. It's a great 2 ch amp. I'm not sure how much of the amazing bass performance of the WOW was due to the amp. I should've thought to have them switch to the Emotiva amp in the rack to see if anyone could hear any difference.

Also consider that you'll want to get two decent 10-12" subs (depending on budget and your room volume). Like the boutique speaker companies, the small online sub companies like Hsu offer very good SQ and value. BTW, used can be a good option-I picked up my exc used Velo DD10 subs off Audiogon for about 60% off retail. I carefully placed them to decrease room modes so I get clean smooth bass and it actually improves SQ overall as there's so much less ringing in the room.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #4813 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

OK, first off, sorry I hadn't looked up your speakers. I had the Polk RT800i towers, C400 CC and a $350 Polk 10" sub. That combo really did not show off the capability of the 4310 at all. It was well-suited to the 2809, a far less expensive AVR. It will not be hard to improve on those tiny, inexpensive Polks! Have you established an upgrade budget yet?

Ok, this what I'm thinking. So, I need better speakers. I don't want to spend more than 2k.

You bring up an exc point. It would be better to talk with Jim about your room, seating distance, volume you listen and take that all into consideration irt any model's sensitivity and rated ohms. Note tha the 4310 handles 6-16 ohms very well but a whole array of inefficient 4 ohm speakers driven near reference would likely require the addition of something like an Emotiva XPA2 or 3 (another $600-800).

I'd love to get one of this beasts but now is not a moment to add a separate. I would like to show off the best of my AVR, and I know the 4310 can get better performance standalone. So I'm focusing on the best purchase of speakers I can do.

Could you explain me what reference level is?

I'm not at all suggesting that WOW are the speakers for you and your 4310. Per the new WOW thread they are only 84dB sens which is very low-if they are 4Ohm you'd better plan on adding at least an XPA3. And 5 of those speakers would cost close to $3K.

Yes, those specs sounds very demanding for 4310.. However, my zone 2 speakers are 4 ohm and are correctly driven. ( I prefer not to tell the brand, maybe you could take me not so serious )

As to amp driving the WOWs at the show, in the AC thread on the meet you'll see this post by the amp designer/builder, Frank Van Alstine. It's a great 2 ch amp. I'm not sure how much of the amazing bass performance of the WOW was due to the amp. I should've thought to have them switch to the Emotiva amp in the rack to see if anyone could hear any difference.

Ok

Also consider that you'll want to get two decent 10-12" subs (depending on budget and your room volume). Like the boutique speaker companies, the small online sub companies like Hsu offer very good SQ and value. BTW, used can be a good option-I picked up my exc used Velo DD10 subs off Audiogon for about 60% off retail. I carefully placed them to decrease room modes so I get clean smooth bass and it actually improves SQ overall as there's so much less ringing in the room.

Pls note my comments inside your quoted post.

Wow, 2 subwoofers! My wife will love this project! Are you recommending to split the sub out on the AVR in order to connect 2 subs?

Anyway, thanks a lot for your helpful comments.

Any other ideas for my $ 2k budget?
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Yes, split the sub out with a 'Y' cable...As for floor standing, which I personally think is what the 4310 calls for for proper sound, if your wife allows speaker stands, again, a necessary evil for bookshelf speakers, then floor standing speakers shouldn't be an issue. The floor standers will look AND sound better than bookshelf speakers, especially as the volume goes up. I had bookshelfs for years, and good ones too, but there is only so much a tiny speaker can do, no matter the cost. Tell the wife you are doing this and the end result will be fantastic.
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post #4815 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlyz View Post

Pls note my comments inside your quoted post.

Splicer answered you on the sub out- the key is in proper setup and placement of the subs. I like front R/L towers myself but IMO quality bookshelves on stands can be very good combined with sub(s) and can be a lot less expensive. Solid, decent looking stands can be had for well under $100/pr.

Reference level for film (the only established standard) is with MV=0 after Autosetup has calibrated your system. It's freakin LOUD.

With a budget of 2K you can get some good speakers for your 4310. I myself like Craigslist and Audiogon as there are bargains to be had but that's used gear. For new speakers, I'd take a look at those Stereophile Reviews (and mebbe some other similar sources) over the past 2-3 years. Searching online often you'll find speakers new that are discontinued/last year's model etc., on clearance. Also post on the speaker forums or start your own thread asking for ideas within your budget. Don't get hung up on Salk but you could send Jim an email asking if he has a 5 speaker combo in that price range.

Unless you find some good speakers for really cheap, maybe it makes more sense with your budget to use the sub you have and buy 1 used sub off craigslist that's as good or better for a hundred or two. Leave two matching good subs in your wish list for the next upgrade phase as that will likely cost over a thou and that eats up half your budget or more. The objective of 2 subs is not more bass but smoother bass esult of careful sub placement to cancel room modes. A good start is opposite midwall placements on the sides preferably equidistant from MLP.

BTW it's very slick and easier to follow embedded comments if you bold or color them.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #4816 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 05:43 PM
 
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Honestly, get 2 Martin Logan Motion 12's, and consider DIY for better and cheaper subs than you can buy usually. LOTS of options in front of you.

The ML's while 4 ohms are incredibly efficient speakers that the 4310 will make come alive. I run ML Preface speakers, even better if you can find some, and they just flat out rock.
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post #4817 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlyz View Post

Hello Everybody,

Like I´ve said in other previous posts I have a set of Polk Blackstone TL250 + DSW 440 sub attached to my 4310. For some circunstance I feel that they aren´t every good I´d like to be. But maybe the sub is OK for now...

I feel that the 4310 deserves something better, so now that I´m moving to a bigger house, I starting to think in how to improve this situation. However, I don´t think I´ll have the chance to add floorstandings (wife constraints), so I would like to know your suggestions in order to get my new speakers.

Could be bookshelves or something size friendly for a medium room. And to be sincerely clear I want to go in other direction than Polk. From the past 7 years I´ve used Polk, so I would like to discover something new.

I´ve saw sets from Martin Logan, Klipsch, KEF and Energy and a universe of bookshelves. But I´ve really want to take the experience to the next level, and I´m so confusing about the way to go.

I use 50% HT and 50% music.


I´d like to know your advice and have your help to decide.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!

charlyz I have my 4310 mated with the Klipsch RB-61II which are very efficient. They sound great. They were rated by Home Theater magazine as a top pick. There is also a larger bookshelf RB-81II

good luck in your search
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post #4818 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Yes, split the sub out with a 'Y' cable...As for floor standing, which I personally think is what the 4310 calls for for proper sound, if your wife allows speaker stands, again, a necessary evil for bookshelf speakers, then floor standing speakers shouldn't be an issue. The floor standers will look AND sound better than bookshelf speakers, especially as the volume goes up. I had bookshelfs for years, and good ones too, but there is only so much a tiny speaker can do, no matter the cost. Tell the wife you are doing this and the end result will be fantastic.

Yes Splicer, I know the way to go is FS. Maybe a good idea is to find a good ones with the smaller footprint. ( just know the Polk TS line)
Before I proceed I'd like to make sure that I'll get a good improve.

You know, sometimes the size of investment is not the size of improvement...

Do you think the upgrade will be really noticeably?

Sorry I have to go to talk seriously with my wife.

Tks
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post #4819 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Splicer answered you on the sub out- the key is in proper setup and placement of the subs. I like front R/L towers myself but IMO quality bookshelves on stands can be very good combined with sub(s) and can be a lot less expensive. Solid, decent looking stands can be had for well under $100/pr.

Reference level for film (the only established standard) is with MV=0 after Autosetup has calibrated your system. It's freakin LOUD.

OK I got it!
With a budget of 2K you can get some good speakers for your 4310. I myself like Craigslist and Audiogon as there are bargains to be had but that's used gear. For new speakers, I'd take a look at those Stereophile Reviews (and mebbe some other similar sources) over the past 2-3 years. Searching online often you'll find speakers new that are discontinued/last year's model etc., on clearance. Also post on the speaker forums or start your own thread asking for ideas within your budget. Don't get hung up on Salk but you could send Jim an email asking if he has a 5 speaker combo in that price range.

Yes, I will try with Jim. Those things seems to be very good.

Unless you find some good speakers for really cheap, maybe it makes more sense with your budget to use the sub you have and buy 1 used sub off craigslist that's as good or better for a hundred or two. Leave two matching good subs in your wish list for the next upgrade phase as that will likely cost over a thou and that eats up half your budget or more. The objective of 2 subs is not more bass but smoother bass esult of careful sub placement to cancel room modes. A good start is opposite midwall placements on the sides preferably equidistant from MLP.

To be honest, I haven´t in my mind the idea of 2 subs. But must accept that now I considering. Just don´t sure if its worth without XT32. Since is the same equalized signal, right?

BTW it's very slick and easier to follow embedded comments if you bold or color them.

Yes, sorry.
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post #4820 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Honestly, get 2 Martin Logan Motion 12's, and consider DIY for better and cheaper subs than you can buy usually. LOTS of options in front of you.

The ML's while 4 ohms are incredibly efficient speakers that the 4310 will make come alive. I run ML Preface speakers, even better if you can find some, and they just flat out rock.

I don't know much about ML, however always catch my eye. Are they produced locally or overseas?

Are you saying to build my own sub? I like the idea, I have good technical skills and good DIYfer. But never thought about build a sub. Where can I get the parts?
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post #4821 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 06:46 PM
 
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HUGE upgrade and VERY noticeable.
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post #4822 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jnnt29 View Post


charlyz I have my 4310 mated with the Klipsch RB-61II which are very efficient. They sound great. They were rated by Home Theater magazine as a top pick. There is also a larger bookshelf RB-81II

good luck in your search

Hello jnnnt, I'll give a look on that
Tks
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post #4823 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 06:49 PM
 
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And XT32 it is still the same signal, just has the ability to be 'calibrated' seperately. If you do the 'Y' plug, that's what I do, and tweak the system, IMO you will get as good of results. But again, that is just my opinion and my ears.
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post #4824 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 07:15 PM
 
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partsexpress.com for sub supplies...My Preface was made overseas, tho quality is as good as American if you ask me.
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post #4825 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

partsexpress.com for sub supplies...My Preface was made overseas, tho quality is as good as American if you ask me.

The reviews online are great for those MLs. I've saw that exist a motion 10 too. It's smaller!!

What do you think?
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post #4826 of 5307 Old 01-24-2012, 08:06 PM
 
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Stick with the 12's for the front. Use the 10's for surround duty...At least that is what I would do in your position. I am running all Martin Logan, Encore TF for the surrounds, and the 4310 just rocks.
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post #4827 of 5307 Old 01-25-2012, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

And XT32 it is still the same signal, just has the ability to be 'calibrated' seperately. If you do the 'Y' plug, that's what I do, and tweak the system, IMO you will get as good of results.
Good, yes, but I'm very doubtful results would be "as good".
But again, that is just my opinion and my ears.
Have you heard both XT and XT32 in your room with your gear? I have.

XT32 does EQ the subs simultaneously as 1sub, just as though it was a Y connection. But it is quite a step up IME. The improvements come from the far increased correction power both in the sub channel and in the satellite channels (where a lot of crucial bass resides from the xover up to the Schroeder Freq), and smarter fuzzy logic on distributing correction points. It also pings the subs separately to adjust level and distance.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #4828 of 5307 Old 01-25-2012, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by charlyz View Post

Yes, sorry.

No need to apologize at all. I've picked up such tips from spending too much time on thie forum. XT32 would mean you'd need to get the 4311 (about $1.3K now, a great value) and sell the 4310 (2 currently on Agon for well under $800). It is a significant step up from XT and the 4311 can drive 4 ohm speakers with ease.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #4829 of 5307 Old 01-25-2012, 04:39 AM
 
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Have you heard both XT and XT32 in your room with your gear?

To my dismay (or blessing, depends how you see it. ) I have not had the luxury of hearing both the '10 & '11 in my home w/my equipment but, you know what they say...ignorance is bliss...
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post #4830 of 5307 Old 01-25-2012, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Stick with the 12's for the front. Use the 10's for surround duty...At least that is what I would do in your position. I am running all Martin Logan, Encore TF for the surrounds, and the 4310 just rocks.

Could you pls confirm dimensions at base of 12s?

Can I put them close to a wall?
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