Denon AVR-4310CI Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5307 Old 09-02-2009, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

This makes it sound like it may not be a bug, but just something they did intentionally for this disc.

well, they DID do it intentionally for that disc, because it could then be used to DISCOVER bugs like has been done with the Denons!

The point is that, if there is no volume difference, you (the end user) would never be able to hear if you were getting the lossy or lossless track, and since the Denon is reporting it as "DTS-MASTER" then especially so.

Because the "core" track is authored to be softer in volume, it allows you to expose an error in the DTS decoder where it uses the "core" instead of the true lossless track.

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post #722 of 5307 Old 09-02-2009, 04:50 PM
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I agree that the volume difference is entirely intentional. But this statement from the linked post makes me wonder - -

"Now there has been a lot of confusion generated by our decision to lower the downmix coef. of the 7.1 DTSHD-MA channel ID as much as possible to prevent people from playing a 7.1 ID test on a 5.1 system (or a system set to 5.1). "

If it's the downmix coefficient making everything quieter, that does not seem to mean that you're working from the lossy core, just getting a vewwy quiet downmix (in case you're hunting wabbits).

So now I am confused and somewhat hopeful that the issue is more about confusing descriptions of what the AIX disc does, rather than a Denon bug, since I'm sure I've got the bug if it exists (although I do not plan to lose sleep over it either way - - DTS core sounds pretty good).
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post #723 of 5307 Old 09-02-2009, 05:06 PM
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well, I hope FilmMixer can chime on this. I had been working under the assumption (from what he said) that the specific point of that test on the AIX disc was to test for the bug we have been discussing.... if that's not the point of that AIX test then all bets are off!! Denon owners will have to find something else to obsess over and lose sleep about

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post #724 of 5307 Old 09-02-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pgarnold View Post

snagitseven,

1) The 4310 only has 7 amps, so no way to do a 9.1 with this AVR. The 4810 which is suppose to be out this fall will be a 9.1 capable AVR.

2) There are also only 7.1 pre-amp outputs on the 4310, so no this won't work.

3) You can pick either heights or widths but not both with the 4310.

4) The number of amps in the 4310 has no effect on whether you can run digital to zones 2&3. That is a separate issue due to copy protection for HDMI imposed by the movie industry which has been covered in earlier posts. If you want to power a zone (use a pair of 4310 amps) then you will be down to 5.1 on the main zone. The zone 2&3 outputs on the 4310 are pre-amp outs that require amps to drive. Use an old receiver to power these and save your 4310 amps for 7.1 in the main zone.

Thanks for the reply. While I knew there were only 7.1 amplifiers I didn't think it through that there were also only 7.1 preamps therefore no way to get the other two channels even with an external amp. Also, I confused the previous discussions of the Zones being able to run from external amps with 7.1 maintained on the 4310.
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post #725 of 5307 Old 09-02-2009, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

I agree that the volume difference is entirely intentional. But this statement from the linked post makes me wonder - -

"Now there has been a lot of confusion generated by our decision to lower the downmix coef. of the 7.1 DTSHD-MA channel ID as much as possible to prevent people from playing a 7.1 ID test on a 5.1 system (or a system set to 5.1). "

If it's the downmix coefficient making everything quieter, that does not seem to mean that you're working from the lossy core, just getting a vewwy quiet downmix (in case you're hunting wabbits).

So now I am confused and somewhat hopeful that the issue is more about confusing descriptions of what the AIX disc does, rather than a Denon bug, since I'm sure I've got the bug if it exists (although I do not plan to lose sleep over it either way - - DTS core sounds pretty good).

Exactly. I wondering if there is really a bug at all. There are posts out there suggesting people without Denons are having the same issue.
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post #726 of 5307 Old 09-02-2009, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

I read the link and I don't think the AIX guy understands the issue with regard to Denon receivers.

The Dolby True HD 7.1 tracks have been set up with a lossy DD core track with a verbal warning that your receiver is not decoding the True HD track properly.

I have verified this by testing the disc on a PS3 in bitstream mode that forces the DD lossy core to be used ("Fat" PS3's can only bitstream lossy DD and DTS). When the PS3 is set to LPCM the test works fine. On my Oppo BDP-83, the test works fine in either bitstream or LPCM mode. Both the Oppo and the Denon downmix properly from 7.1 to 5.1 by running both the surround and back surround info through the surround channels.

Now, with the DTS HD-MA tracks I did the same comparison. Remember that our understanding is the low volume track is the lossy DTS core.

On the PS3, the low volume lossy core plays when set to bitstream, which forces lossy DTS. The volume is normal when set to LPCM, and the channels downmix correctly: surround + back surround into the surround channels.

In the Oppo, the low volume lossy core plays when set to bitstream, even though DTS-MA HD is shown on the Denon's display. Changing to LPCM gets normal volume with proper downmix.

So clearly, the Denon is doing something different when downmixing 7.1 to 5.1. Enabling the back channels on the Denon returns the volume to normal.

So I think it's pretty clear that Denon is using the lossy 5.1 core track instead of downmixing DTS-HD MA from 7.1 to 5.1 correctly. The fact that it does this while displaying DTS-HD MA on the VFD on the onscreen menus is very misleading.

The only other possibility is that the DTS-HD MA 7.1 test is designed to result in low volume when properly downmixed to 5.1 and the Denon is doing it correctly. But that would mean that both the Oppo and PS3 are NOT downmixing correctly, and doing something else. This seems unlikely.

Yes, but the question is, did AIX do something specifically on their disc to cause this, or does this really happen with all 7.1 DTS-MA tracks?

The poster in the linked thread seems to suggest that AIX just made it work this way because they didn't want people with 5.1 systems using a 7.1 test track.

Anyway, this is making me crazy, and I'll just LPCM my 7.1 movies for now. But, I would love to hear a response from AIX on this.
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post #727 of 5307 Old 09-02-2009, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

Yes, but the question is, did AIX do something specifically on their disc to cause this, or does this really happen with all 7.1 DTS-MA tracks?

The poster in the linked thread seems to suggest that AIX just made it work this way because they didn't want people with 5.1 systems using a 7.1 test track.

Anyway, this is making me crazy, and I'll just LPCM my 7.1 movies for now. But, I would love to hear a response from AIX on this.

Yes, they authored the track so that the DTS lossy core is extra quiet, but the DTS HD MA extensions bring it up to full volume!

They designed both the True HD and DTS HD MA 7.1 tracks to make it obvious when the lossy core is being used. That was the whole point.

The conclusion we are making is that Denon AVR's will use the lossy 5.1 core whenever 7.1 DTS HD MA content is played in a 5.1 setup. The problem is there is no way to really tell on any other disc besides the test disc.

Edited to add:

After giving it some more thought, I came up with the following. We don't know what the decoder is doing in the PS3 and Oppo because it is converting all DTS-HD MA 7.1 content to LPCM 7.1 and sending it to the AVR. The AVR then downmixes the 7.1 LPCM to 5.1 LPCM most likely by simply summing the surround and back surround channels together. That's why we get the full volume track when the player converts to LPCM no matter whether the Denon has a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.

We need to test the Oppo to see if the built-in decoder properly downmixes 7.1 to 5.1 on it's own. I think this would mean setting up the analog outputs for 5.1, running them into the analog multi-channel inputs on the Denon (or any AVR for that matter) and seeing if the full volume or low volume track shows up. We may very well get the low volume track...

It's quite possible that other DTS HD MA decoders do the same thing and we just don't realize it.
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post #728 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

Yes, they authored the track so that the DTS lossy core is extra quiet, but the DTS HD MA extensions bring it up to full volume!

They designed both the True HD and DTS HD MA 7.1 tracks to make it obvious when the lossy core is being used. That was the whole point.

The conclusion we are making is that Denon AVR's will use the lossy 5.1 core whenever 7.1 DTS HD MA content is played in a 5.1 setup. The problem is there is no way to really tell on any other disc besides the test disc.

Edited to add:

After giving it some more thought, I came up with the following. We don't know what the decoder is doing in the PS3 and Oppo because it is converting all DTS-HD MA 7.1 content to LPCM 7.1 and sending it to the AVR. The AVR then downmixes the 7.1 LPCM to 5.1 LPCM most likely by simply summing the surround and back surround channels together. That's why we get the full volume track when the player converts to LPCM no matter whether the Denon has a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.

We need to test the Oppo to see if the built-in decoder properly downmixes 7.1 to 5.1 on it's own. I think this would mean setting up the analog outputs for 5.1, running them into the analog multi-channel inputs on the Denon (or any AVR for that matter) and seeing if the full volume or low volume track shows up. We may very well get the low volume track...

It's quite possible that other DTS HD MA decoders do the same thing and we just don't realize it.

For me, the crux of the issue is:

Is the 7.1 track authored to play softly if the lossy core is played, or is it authored to play softly if the 7.1 track is simply downmixed to a still lossless to 5.1 (I don't even know if this is possible)?

Testing it with other AVRs or as you say in the player would maybe shed more light on the issue.
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post #729 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

Is the 7.1 track authored to play softly if the lossy core is played, or is it authored to play softly if the 7.1 track is simply downmixed to a still lossless to 5.1 (I don't even know if this is possible)?

Exactly.
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post #730 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

For me, the crux of the issue is:

Is the 7.1 track authored to play softly if the lossy core is played, or is it authored to play softly if the 7.1 track is simply downmixed to a still lossless to 5.1 (I don't even know if this is possible)?

Testing it with other AVRs or as you say in the player would maybe shed more light on the issue.

While I don't have the disc yet and cannot confirm one way or another I would say it's a safe bet that it's the first of the two scenarios you paint; I say this because it appears that people have been able to confirm that this is not occurring when either the Oppo BD player or the PS3 is doing the decoding and sending PCM to the Denon; if the second scenario you paint was true the same would happen whether the BD player or AVR was doing the decoding.

In summary, based on testing done by a number of forum members my opinion is that this is a Denon AVR issue; I will post my own findings when I receive my disc from Oppo (I will also test this on my Onkyo 876 AVR).
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post #731 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 10:21 AM
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I am having a 'little' trouble with my new Asus Xonar AVH1.3Slim card and my AVR-4310, when i have Radeon 4550 HDMI out directly to my AVR-4310 it works flawless, when i connect Radeon 4550 HDMI(or dvi) to Xonar AVHD1.3slim and again to AVR-4310 i often do not get a signal at all, TV just say no signal, if i turn off and on my AVR-4310 i sometimes get a picture, and sometimes not. The strange thing is even the menu on avr-4310 also disappear, like there is no connection to my TV at all(therefor no signal).

Does anyone have any clue?

[edit] Just found this thread http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?...HDAV1.3%20Slim about the problem i have, there are others with Denon products, so who knows if it is Denon's fault or Asus.. Anyway this is maybe a bit OT, sorry about that.

[Edit2] I may have solved it, seems like it works now after i've turned off all video processing in my avr-4310
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post #732 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 01:22 PM
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I am about to order a 4310 online. Can someone recommend a reliable web site which sells only new products and not the refurbished or factory second? I know onecall and crutchfield are authorized and relaible but they are not giving any discounts. In fact, none of the authorized dealers are giving any discounts. Can someone recommend a reliable one which gives good discounts as well?
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post #733 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arvban View Post

I am about to order a 4310 online. Can someone recommend a reliable web site which sells only new products and not the refurbished or factory second? I know onecall and crutchfield are authorized and relaible but they are not giving any discounts. In fact, none of the authorized dealers are giving any discounts. Can someone recommend a reliable one which gives good discounts as well?

Join Best Buy Reward Zone, and find a reward zone discount coupon - sometimes they send them directly to you (not every gets every offer), but you can usually find copies on the internet in pdf form.

I got my 4310ci in person at a Best Buy/Magnolia, with a 10% discount coupon ($1799 before taxes) and 36 months zero percent financing on my Best Buy card. I also got enough rewards points to get $35 in certificates. That brings the total down to $1764 before tax.

The extra $265 over the $1499 prevailing non-authorized price on the internet was worth it to me to keep the warranty, and get the advantage of Best Buy's liberal return policy.
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post #734 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

Yes, they authored the track so that the DTS lossy core is extra quiet, but the DTS HD MA extensions bring it up to full volume!

They designed both the True HD and DTS HD MA 7.1 tracks to make it obvious when the lossy core is being used. That was the whole point.

The conclusion we are making is that Denon AVR's will use the lossy 5.1 core whenever 7.1 DTS HD MA content is played in a 5.1 setup. The problem is there is no way to really tell on any other disc besides the test disc.

Edited to add:

After giving it some more thought, I came up with the following. We don't know what the decoder is doing in the PS3 and Oppo because it is converting all DTS-HD MA 7.1 content to LPCM 7.1 and sending it to the AVR. The AVR then downmixes the 7.1 LPCM to 5.1 LPCM most likely by simply summing the surround and back surround channels together. That's why we get the full volume track when the player converts to LPCM no matter whether the Denon has a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.

We need to test the Oppo to see if the built-in decoder properly downmixes 7.1 to 5.1 on it's own. I think this would mean setting up the analog outputs for 5.1, running them into the analog multi-channel inputs on the Denon (or any AVR for that matter) and seeing if the full volume or low volume track shows up. We may very well get the low volume track...

It's quite possible that other DTS HD MA decoders do the same thing and we just don't realize it.


I'm not 100% certain but I believe the downmix to 5.1 happens in the player when it is set to PCM not the AVR. If I am incorrect I imagine someone more knowledgeable on this will chime in such as Batpig. However, I think your idea to test over analog will pretty much answer this question conclusively.
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post #735 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 02:30 PM
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Does the Denon 4310 allow for 192/24 PCM audio (2 channel & multi channel) through HDMI or just Denon link? The manual is certainly not clear.

Gear: Yamaha 3900,Wyred4Sound STI500 Oppo BDP83, Bryston CD1, B&W CDM9NT, Pioneer N50, Salk Soundscape 8's
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post #736 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawj7 View Post

Man I love this forum, so many answers cant get anywhere else., Anyway I I've decided this is the one I will get and believe me, It's SUCH A HUGE RELIEFE because I tourture myself over such decisions. Now for the Blu-Ray Player. With this reciever would the New Denon 2010 BD player be over kill compared to the 1610? or is there other stuff I'm missing that would make the 2010 better for my mountain of DVD's and music that the 1610 couldent just have the 4310 do? thanks
Rob

For both blu ray discs as well as standard dvd's and SACD's and DVD-A music discs, you can hardly find a better player, especially for anything close to the price, than the Oppo 83. It has the same anchor bay video chip as the 4310, so your videos will look great and it also lets you connect various usb drives with music, pictures and video and play them back. Check it out, but for the money only the $2,500 Denon blu ray player may equal it and the Oppo is only $500.
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post #737 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

Join Best Buy Reward Zone, and find a reward zone discount coupon - sometimes they send them directly to you (not every gets every offer), but you can usually find copies on the internet in pdf form.

I got my 4310ci in person at a Best Buy/Magnolia, with a 10% discount coupon ($1799 before taxes) and 36 months zero percent financing on my Best Buy card. I also got enough rewards points to get $35 in certificates. That brings the total down to $1764 before tax.

The extra $265 over the $1499 prevailing non-authorized price on the internet was worth it to me to keep the warranty, and get the advantage of Best Buy's liberal return policy.

It can be had for quite a bit cheaper than that too. Call these fellas'. They are authorized and have great prices.

http://www.avscience.com/
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post #738 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 04:40 PM
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I will echo that you can do better than that; I was quoted $2,000 including tax in Toronto and the MSRP here in Canada is $2,700 so I imagine you can do significantly better than 10% off MSRP in the U.S.
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post #739 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arvban View Post

I am about to order a 4310 online. Can someone recommend a reliable web site which sells only new products and not the refurbished or factory second? Can someone recommend a reliable one which gives good discounts as well?

I did a name your price on the 4310 from 6ave and got $1448, no tax, free shipping. I ended up buying the 4308 from them for $1329 instead.
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post #740 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 05:32 PM
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I did a name your price on the 4310 from 6ave and got $1448, no tax, free shipping. I ended up buying the 4308 from them for $1329 instead.

That's great! Never tried that before.

I went local because I wanted it to be really easy to return. I almost bought a 3808ci more than once in the past, but I am glad I didn't because of the HDMI dropout issues with Sony XBR4 HDTV's. I had heard the 4310ci didn't have this problem, but I wanted to make sure.

I bought the 4310ci as a "reality check" to try out while my NAD T775 is in the shop yet again for another hardware/firmware fix. NAD's HDMI implementation has been fraught with problems, and I'm debating giving up on it if the latest updates don't fix the problems. I wanted to make sure it wasn't something else in the HDMI chain (like the TV) that was causing the problems.

So far, I have been very impressed with the Denon, it works much better than the NAD, and sounds great. I may keep it and dump the NAD when the service is done.

I suppose I could always get another 4310ci from one of the places mentioned above and return this one anyway...
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post #741 of 5307 Old 09-03-2009, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PerryD View Post

I did a name your price on the 4310 from 6ave and got $1448, no tax, free shipping. I ended up buying the 4308 from them for $1329 instead.

I bought my 4310 from a local dealer for $1329 . Too good to pass up. Deals can be had all over for under $1500 if you take the time to look.
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post #742 of 5307 Old 09-04-2009, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

For me, the crux of the issue is:

Is the 7.1 track authored to play softly if the lossy core is played, or is it authored to play softly if the 7.1 track is simply downmixed to a still lossless to 5.1 (I don't even know if this is possible)?

Testing it with other AVRs or as you say in the player would maybe shed more light on the issue.

UPDATE:

I just went through the (long and tedious) process of unhooking my 5.1 speakers and Oppo from my Denon, and hooking up to a Yamaha RX-V663.

Played the AIX disc 7.1 DTS track and guess what? 50dB volume cut!

Either this is the most ubiquitous and hidden bug of all time, or it is not a bug in the AVR at all, but simply somehow related to the AIX disc itself.

Anyone else with other AVR brands who can confirm?

My belief that this is a bug in our AVRs is rapidly fading.
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post #743 of 5307 Old 09-04-2009, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

UPDATE:

I just went through the (long and tedious) process of unhooking my 5.1 speakers and Oppo from my Denon, and hooking up to a Yamaha RX-V663.

Played the AIX disc 7.1 DTS track and guess what? 50dB volume cut!

Either this is the most ubiquitous and hidden bug of all time, or it is not a bug in the AVR at all, but simply somehow related to the AIX disc itself.

Anyone else with other AVR brands who can confirm?

My belief that this is a bug in our AVRs is rapidly fading.

Does the Yamaha indicate it is decoding DTS HD-MA? THe disk clearly is supposed to be very quiet if you try to "test" a 5.1 signal using the 7.1 test tones. Either that is because the lossy core is somehow encoded very quiet, and the disk forces reversion tot he lossy core, or because the downmix paramaters to go from 7.1 to 5.1 are set so that everything gets turned way down.

The problem isn't that the Denons play the sound back quietly. That's correct. THe question is whether they are decoding the lossy core, or downmixing to superquiet levels while still decoding the HD data.
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post #744 of 5307 Old 09-04-2009, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

UPDATE:

I just went through the (long and tedious) process of unhooking my 5.1 speakers and Oppo from my Denon, and hooking up to a Yamaha RX-V663.

Played the AIX disc 7.1 DTS track and guess what? 50dB volume cut!

Either this is the most ubiquitous and hidden bug of all time, or it is not a bug in the AVR at all, but simply somehow related to the AIX disc itself.

Anyone else with other AVR brands who can confirm?

My belief that this is a bug in our AVRs is rapidly fading.


I was just about to post something similar; I posted this question in the Oppo thread as they are the people to ask about the AIX disc; an owner of an Integra 9.9 indicated the same thing you did; he also noticed the volume cut; if this implies the decoding of the lossy core it looks like a DTS issue; it's either that or an AIX issue.

In the meantime, it sounds like the only safe bet is to let your player decode DTS-MA 7.1 tracks to PCM if you have a 5.1 setup. In any event, it's looking more and more like this is not a Denon issue.
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post #745 of 5307 Old 09-04-2009, 08:57 AM
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Has anyone on this forum tried using a Denon 110 volt receiver in a 220 volt power supply country? Does this work ok with a step down(220 volt to 110 volt) voltage converter? I heard that freqnency mis-match 60 Hz vs 50 Hz will deteriotate the picture quality. Does anyone have any inputs on it?
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post #746 of 5307 Old 09-04-2009, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post

I was just about to post something similar; I posted this question in the Oppo thread as they are the people to ask about the AIX disc; an owner of an Integra 9.9 indicated the same thing you did; he also noticed the volume cut; if this implies the decoding of the lossy core it looks like a DTS issue; it's either that or an AIX issue.

In the meantime, it sounds like the only safe bet is to let your player decode DTS-MA 7.1 tracks to PCM if you have a 5.1 setup. In any event, it's looking more and more like this is not a Denon issue.

There have been posts by three different brands of receivers regarding this issue: Denon, Yamaha, and Integra. These are three of the premier receiver manufacturers in the world and I find it impossible to believe that all three just so happen to have this same "bug" in their software for this one specific audio codec. I agree with the post above that this is either an issue with the codec itself or the AIX disc.
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post #747 of 5307 Old 09-04-2009, 10:56 AM
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Well, it looks like the whole DTS-MA 7.1 to 5.1 downmix debacle is the result of a misinterpretation of the AIX test; another poster in the Oppo thread posted a response from an AIX employee which stated the following:

Originally Posted by Brent555
Hi Folks, I'm Brent Curtis, I work for AIX, and we made the Blu-ray disc that came with the Oppo. Bob P. is completely correct. The DTS-MA downmix was set to the lowest possible setting to prevent users from playing a 5.1 stream when they had chosen a 7.1 test. We wanted to set it to silence. Regrettably, we should have mentioned this somewhere on the disc.

If you have the settings in your Oppo and AVR set correctly and really have 7.1, then the DTS-MA test will play at the normal volume. This test should only be used if you have a 7.1 system. While not DTS-MA, there are other 5.1 tests that can be used. For those people who are having troubles with the settings, we noticed some interaction between using the analog outputs and having the Secondary Audio turned on. Please contact Oppo directly for clarification, but first try turning off the Secondary Audio.

We're glad people are enjoying the disc and am sorry for any confusion this has caused, but in a way, the trick is doing its job in illuminating when the 7.1 is not really playing.



Anyway, based on the above post it looks like there is nothing wront with the Denon, Yamaha, or Onkyo/Integra receivers.
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Originally Posted by -dase- View Post

I bought my 4310 from a local dealer for $1329 . Too good to pass up. Deals can be had all over for under $1500 if you take the time to look.

You have it all too easy to upgrade over there. A 4310 runs $2850 around here, and thers only a single distributer in the country for it.
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You have it all too easy to upgrade over there. A 4310 runs $2850 around here, and thers only a single distributer in the country for it.

Isn't capitalism GREAT !
Nothing like competition.

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post #750 of 5307 Old 09-04-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

Well, it looks like the whole DTS-MA 7.1 to 5.1 downmix debacle is the result of a misinterpretation of the AIX test; another poster in the Oppo thread posted a response from an AIX employee which stated the following:

Originally Posted by Brent555
Hi Folks, I'm Brent Curtis, I work for AIX, and we made the Blu-ray disc that came with the Oppo. Bob P. is completely correct. The DTS-MA downmix was set to the lowest possible setting to prevent users from playing a 5.1 stream when they had chosen a 7.1 test. We wanted to set it to silence. Regrettably, we should have mentioned this somewhere on the disc.

If you have the settings in your Oppo and AVR set correctly and really have 7.1, then the DTS-MA test will play at the normal volume. This test should only be used if you have a 7.1 system. While not DTS-MA, there are other 5.1 tests that can be used. For those people who are having troubles with the settings, we noticed some interaction between using the analog outputs and having the Secondary Audio turned on. Please contact Oppo directly for clarification, but first try turning off the Secondary Audio.

We're glad people are enjoying the disc and am sorry for any confusion this has caused, but in a way, the trick is doing its job in illuminating when the 7.1 is not really playing.



Anyway, based on the above post it looks like there is nothing wront with the Denon, Yamaha, or Onkyo/Integra receivers.

I spoke to Brent personally.

He agreed that the Denon was not properly reporting what it was doing, and shouldn't be decoding the core if the player is sending bitstream with secondary audio turned off, regardless of if the receiver is set for 5.1 or 7.1.

DTS-HD HR/MA 7.1 is designed to seamlessly down mix to 5.1, and not revert to the core DTS Surround 5.1 track.

There are other receivers and processors that are properly handling the down mix on 5.1 setups.

It also doesn't work properly on the Denon if you set it up as a 6.1 system (it decodes the lossless, but there are other issues that pop up.)

In addition, if you have the Oppo set up to decode to PCM, the Denon properly handles the incoming PCM audio and you get relatively equal audio from the xS/xB signal from you L and R surrounds.

Even if you want to look past that, the Denon is improperly reporting DTS-HD MA decoding in this situation.
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