Denon AVR-4310CI Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5307 Old 06-21-2009, 11:23 AM
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just looking at those specs, the "big deal" feature of the 4810 vs 4310 is the NINE channels of amplification (140W x 9) so you can have a full Audyssey DSX layout (5.1 + wides + heights, or standard 7.1 + wides or heights). Considering they call it "9.3" there is a good chance the three sub outputs will have independent Audyssey calibration as in the current 5308CI. It will also have the accompanying increase in overall DSP processing power to enable 9.3-channel processing with MultEQ XT + multizone functions etc...

It should also be larger and heavier, with beefier chassis and amp section, plus some additional feature upgrades (like independent OSD for Zone 2, probably component video output for Zone 2, Advanced AL24 on all channels, etc). We will know more in the fall when the manual gets released I guess.

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post #92 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 09:30 AM
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the 4810 is also rumored to have HDMI 1.4 inputs as well.
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post #93 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

just looking at those specs, the "big deal" feature of the 4810 vs 4310 is the NINE channels of amplification (140W x 9) so you can have a full Audyssey DSX layout (5.1 + wides + heights, or standard 7.1 + wides or heights). Considering they call it "9.3" there is a good chance the three sub outputs will have independent Audyssey calibration as in the current 5308CI. It will also have the accompanying increase in overall DSP processing power to enable 9.3-channel processing with MultEQ XT + multizone functions etc...

It should also be larger and heavier, with beefier chassis and amp section, plus some additional feature upgrades (like independent OSD for Zone 2, probably component video output for Zone 2, Advanced AL24 on all channels, etc). We will know more in the fall when the manual gets released I guess.

Thanks. I will definitely try this one to.

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post #94 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:


just looking at those specs, the "big deal" feature of the 4810 vs 4310 is the NINE channels of amplification (140W x 9) so you can have a full Audyssey DSX layout (5.1 + wides + heights, or standard 7.1 + wides or heights). Considering they call it "9.3" there is a good chance the three sub outputs will have independent Audyssey calibration as in the current 5308CI. It will also have the accompanying increase in overall DSP processing power to enable 9.3-channel processing with MultEQ XT + multizone functions etc...

It should also be larger and heavier, with beefier chassis and amp section, plus some additional feature upgrades (like independent OSD for Zone 2, probably component video output for Zone 2, Advanced AL24 on all channels, etc). We will know more in the fall when the manual gets released I guess.

The 4810 is definitely a step up from the 4310 in features ( and price ). Denon indicates a Sept. release date, unfortunately ( for those of us that are impatient - like me ! )! The whole new Denon reciever line up this year looks pretty exciting IMO.

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post #95 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LordTyler View Post

the 4810 is also rumored to have HDMI 1.4 inputs as well.

That would be a Big extra step. At least shorty down the road it will be.

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post #96 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

The 4810 is definitely a step up from the 4310 in features ( and price ). Denon indicates a Sept. release date, unfortunately ( for those of us that are impatient - like me ! )! The whole new Denon reciever line up this year looks pretty exciting IMO.

Do you know if it will be an Ultra 2? Not that it would be a dealbreaker if it isn't. The 4310 should be "good" enough to hold one over until it hits.

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post #97 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 01:29 PM
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Do you know if it will be an Ultra 2? Not that it would be a dealbreaker if it isn't. The 4310 should be "good" enough to hold one over until it hits.

My information indicates that only the current 5308CI is THX Ultra 2 certified. not the 4810CI.

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post #98 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

4810CI info has been posted in the 2009-10 rumors thread. Here are the specs:

So, the 4810ci is supposed to have "Digital to Analog conversion for Multi-Zone connection flexibility."

Does that means the 4810ci will convert HDMI video to analog component or composite for the 2nd or 3rd zone?

Does the 4310ci do this?


Thanks.
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post #99 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 03:09 PM
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no, no receiver does that. they are talking about audio -- being able to take digital audio from optical/coax connection and output to multizone (which is only stereo analog out).

the 4310CI can take a digital 2.0PCM signal (SPDIF only, not HDMI) and output to multizone, but this is really only useful for piping music to multizone if you have your digital music player hooked up with optical/coax. For anything else you will still need analog connections for Zone 2.

It's possible the 4810CI will be more flexible and be able to downmix 5.1 audio from Main Zone and output stereo to Zone 2.

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post #100 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

My information indicates that only the current 5308CI is THX Ultra 2 certified. not the 4810CI.

As tight as things are I would not be surprised if more companies went away from THX Ultra 2 with more of their models.

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post #101 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 09:40 PM
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The specs for the 4310ci say it downconverts S-video to composite (for use in zones 2 and 3).

And, from Batpig, I know it doesn't downconvert HDMI video.

Does anyone know if the 4310ci downconverts component to composite?

Also, the 4310ci downconverts optical and digital coax audio to analog stereo. Will it downconvert audio from HDMI to analog stereo? I'm guessing no.


Thanks.
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post #102 of 5307 Old 06-22-2009, 09:57 PM
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Does anyone know if the 4310ci downconverts component to composite?

the manual knows!

every Denon manual has a picture demonstrating the signal flow for video conversion, check out pg 10 in the 4310CI manual. If you read the notes on the right side of the page, you can see that it WILL convert component video to S-video/composite but ONLY if it's a 480i signal.

However, this will work for the monitor outputs but NOT for Zone 2, the second picture clearly shows that only S-video / composite can be sent out the Zone 2 composite video output.

Quote:


Will it downconvert audio from HDMI to analog stereo? I'm guessing no.

as I mentioned two posts up, no. I don't know of any receiver that will downmix HDMI audio for multizone output.

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post #103 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 07:07 AM
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Two quick questions for 4210 owners:

First, does anyone have their unit hooked into one of the Verizon FIOS / Comcast Digital Cable Motorola HD-DVRS? If so, does the DVR keep reverting back to an output resolution of 480p every time the TV is turned off/on? Although I love my Yamaha 3900, this is a chronic problem that I have to deal with.

Second, does anyone have the 4310 hooked up to two video displays? If so, does the Monitor Out selection of Auto (Dual) work. With my 3900, I am unable to get both HDMI outputs to work properly at the same time.

Thanks!
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post #104 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 07:18 AM
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That would be a Big extra step. At least shorty down the road it will be.

Why?
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post #105 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by briandx View Post

Two quick questions for 4210 owners:

First, does anyone have their unit hooked into one of the Verizon FIOS / Comcast Digital Cable Motorola HD-DVRS? If so, does the DVR keep reverting back to an output resolution of 480p every time the TV is turned off/on? Although I love my Yamaha 3900, this is a chronic problem that I have to deal with.

Second, does anyone have the 4310 hooked up to two video displays? If so, does the Monitor Out selection of Auto (Dual) work. With my 3900, I am unable to get both HDMI outputs to work properly at the same time.

Thanks!

I suspect one of the reasons you might be having issues is having the two monitors hooked up (with the Comcast box...)

Use component and optical with it... same quality, less hassles, but more wires.
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post #106 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandx View Post

Two quick questions for 4210 owners:

First, does anyone have their unit hooked into one of the Verizon FIOS / Comcast Digital Cable Motorola HD-DVRS? If so, does the DVR keep reverting back to an output resolution of 480p every time the TV is turned off/on? Although I love my Yamaha 3900, this is a chronic problem that I have to deal with.

Second, does anyone have the 4310 hooked up to two video displays? If so, does the Monitor Out selection of Auto (Dual) work. With my 3900, I am unable to get both HDMI outputs to work properly at the same time.

Thanks!

I have a projector and a 46" LCD display connected to my 4310, both with HDMI. The auto setting works perfectly. I have run both displays at the same time as well as each individually. In each case, the display(s) just work with no delays, loss of signal, blanking or other issues.

I'm particularly impressed by this given the HDMI handshake problems I had in my previous set up with an outboard 4 in 2 out HDMI switch feeding the 2 displays.

The only HDMI issue I had with the 4310 is that the output signal is not quite as strong as it was from my previous components. As a result, I initially got sparkles on the LCD screen as it was connected with 50' of HDMI cable. I had to swich to a slightly shorter and somewhat higher quality cable to get rid of the sparkles, but now all is fine.

Ira
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post #107 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 12:03 PM
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Anyone having handshake issues with an Oppo BDP-83 and their 4310?

I'm getting some realy strange interaction between the two (and my TV too I suppose, Mitsu 73837). Oppo is hooked to 4310 via HDMI. DirecTV HDR is hooked to 4310 via HDMI. Wii is hooked to 4310 via component. 4310 is then hooked to TV via HDMI.

With my first 4310 I had no problems with the Oppo or the DTV DVR. The Wii however had handshake isues like crazy if I had any scaling turned on in the 4310. If I turned off scaling then the handshake problems went away with the Wii. When trying to listen to music via media server over the network I would get handshaking issues that I could not resolve by any method. This was the final straw led me to believe the 4310 had some problems as it was all internal generated video. I tried swapping all the HDMI cables and inputs around and there was no correlation. So I swapped out the 4310 for a new one...

Now on the second 4310 I still have no issues with the DTV DVR, but now the Wii works fine, the media server over network works fine and the Oppo has tons of handshake issues. It's like everything but the DVR swapped problems. I can scale the Wii and everything's happy...exact opposite of first 4310. After changing what seemed like hundreds of combinations of settings on the Oppo and the 4310 it APPEARS that I can get BR to work if I enable 1080/24 in the Oppo. That still left me with SD DVDs blipping all over. After changing even more setting combinations it looks like I MIGHT have gotten it stable by turning the scaling off in the Oppo. Both of these "fixes" only work while the movie is playing. If I hit stop or don't have a DVD in and I'm on the Oppo welcome screen the handshake issues are still present. Start a movie and they stop...again, I think (need more trial time).

So with two different 4310s I get two different sets of handshake issues. I have emails in to both Oppo and Denon though I don't expect much from Denon. Just wondering if anyone else has seen any issues with this combo or maybe I just have crappy luck.
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post #108 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluffo View Post

...I tried swapping all the HDMI cables and inputs around and there was no correlation. So I swapped out the 4310 for a new one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluffo View Post

...After changing what seemed like hundreds of combinations of settings on the Oppo and the 4310...

This is probably a stupid question, but did you try the Oppo on a different cable or a different hdmi input on the second 4310 at all? To see if it's just a crappy hardware connection, I mean? Just asking 'cause you mentioned it for the first unit, but not the second -- and this time it sounds like all the problems are related to the one source, which was apparently working fine before.

Also, did you update the firmware on the 4310? Not sure if that would have an impact, but you never know...

Doug
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post #109 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:03 PM
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Great Sluffo......I was just getting ready to place an order for the 4310, and I read all of your quirky issues that you have going on. Crap! I just got the same Oppo player last week as well. hmmm....

Anyway, you are talking about handshake issues going on.....well just so you know, that usually is referred to HDMI connections only. (the whole HDCP protocol thing) Not component, which is what you have connected with the wii. There is no encryption over component, only hdmi.

What kind of receiver did you have before the 4310?

Also, have you tried disabling the video scaling and just setting it up to video pass through?
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post #110 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:21 PM
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I currently have the Denon 4306, and one of the things that really frustrates me is I can't cross over my sub any lower than 80hz. When I go into advanced mode on setting up crossover freq. for each individual speaker, I can go as low as 40hz. But, for some reason with my sub I can only get 80hz as the lowest option. I have main + LFE set, with the front 3 speakers set to large, and surround set to small.

Can anyone confirm that the new 4310 will let you cross over your sub at 40hz instead of 80hz being the lowest option.

Thanks
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post #111 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:25 PM
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there is no sub crossover. you are confusing the LFE low-pass filter with a crossover, it's a common mistake. see my FAQ (search for "LFE" in the Audyssey section) for more info and a detailed explanation:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

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post #112 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

This is probably a stupid question, but did you try the Oppo on a different cable or a different hdmi input on the second 4310 at all? To see if it's just a crappy hardware connection, I mean? Just asking 'cause you mentioned it for the first unit, but not the second -- and this time it sounds like all the problems are related to the one source, which was apparently working fine before.

Also, did you update the firmware on the 4310? Not sure if that would have an impact, but you never know...

Doug

Fair questions. I did try swapping cables and inputs on the second 4310 as well. The firmware was also updated with no change to the issues. It's strange that all the problems reversed with the second unit...minus the DTV.
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post #113 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:43 PM
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Great Sluffo......I was just getting ready to place an order for the 4310, and I read all of your quirky issues that you have going on. Crap! I just got the same Oppo player last week as well. hmmm....

Anyway, you are talking about handshake issues going on.....well just so you know, that usually is referred to HDMI connections only. (the whole HDCP protocol thing) Not component, which is what you have connected with the wii. There is no encryption over component, only hdmi.

What kind of receiver did you have before the 4310?

Also, have you tried disabling the video scaling and just setting it up to video pass through?

Good point about the component issue not being handshaking...at least from the Wii to the 4310. Guess I had a bit of a brain fart when I thought that out. Could be a problem between the 4310 and the TV, though it went away on the second 4310 I tried.

With the first 4310 the Oppo worked fine UNLESS I turned off scaling in the 4310. Then it would have problems. So I just left the 4310 set to scale Analog only. No problems.

On the second 4310 it doesn't matter what I set the scaling to, On or Off, Analog, HDMI or both. I have to adjust the scaling in the Oppo to get it to work and then only while a DVD or BR is actually playing will it not have problems (so far).

I'll play with it more tonight when I get home, but it's starting to hurt my brain.
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post #114 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there is no sub crossover. you are confusing the LFE low-pass filter with a crossover, it's a common mistake. see my FAQ (search for "LFE" in the Audyssey section) for more info and a detailed explanation:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

ah, cool.....thanks batpig.
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post #115 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:48 PM
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it's a giant source of confusion. Assumedly to help alleviate confusion, on the 2010 models Denon moved this setting out of the "Crossover" menu and placed it in the subwoofer setup menu where you set "LFE" vs "LFE+MAIN".

Chris (founder of Audyssey) believes this should never even have even been a setting available to the user. All it does is place an upper limit on the LFE track, but it doesn't affect any of the actual bass management in the receiver.

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post #116 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluffo View Post

Good point about the component issue not being handshaking...at least from the Wii to the 4310. Guess I had a bit of a brain fart when I thought that out. Could be a problem between the 4310 and the TV, though it went away on the second 4310 I tried.

With the first 4310 the Oppo worked fine UNLESS I turned off scaling in the 4310. Then it would have problems. So I just left the 4310 set to scale Analog only. No problems.

On the second 4310 it doesn't matter what I set the scaling to, On or Off, Analog, HDMI or both. I have to adjust the scaling in the Oppo to get it to work and then only while a DVD or BR is actually playing will it not have problems (so far).

I'll play with it more tonight when I get home, but it's starting to hurt my brain.


Yes, please let us know once you get everything to work. (or not to work) I will be putting this order off until I see what happens in your situation.

Thanks Man!
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post #117 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 01:54 PM
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I have my oppo bdp running to the 4310 via the hdmi cable that came with the unit...no handshake issues at all.

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post #118 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 02:29 PM
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i have my oppo bdp running to the 4310 via the hdmi cable that came with the unit...no handshake issues at all.

+1

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post #119 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 02:38 PM
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My information indicates that only the current 5308CI is THX Ultra 2 certified. not the 4810CI.

As tight as things are I would not be surprised if more companies went away from THX Ultra 2 with more of their models.

This is the kind of cost saving short cut I don't care about personally. Denon's receivers have been great without paying THX to certify them.

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post #120 of 5307 Old 06-23-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

This is the kind of cost saving short cut I don't care about personally. Denon's receivers have been great without paying THX to certify them.

My favorite sweet spot with the Onkyo models was the Ultra 2 Cinema Mode but since I am liking the PLIIz Height more I don't need it anymore. Looks like I will have the 4310 here very soon.

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Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr4310ci Receiver , Denon
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