New Pioneer Elite AVRs? 2009-2010 changes? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Any skinny on new Elite AVRs? Last year, announcements were early May; one poster here said something to the effect of "later in June"

Perhaps an SC-15 and SC-17? Any news / speculation / rumor / etc?

PMs appreciated if anyone is in the "know"!
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post #2 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalhdtv View Post

Any skinny on new Elite AVRs? Last year, announcements were early May; one poster here said something to the effect of "later in June"

Perhaps an SC-15 and SC-17? Any news / speculation / rumor / etc?

PMs appreciated if anyone is in the "know"!

Don't know anything more than what's been announced. New Elite models will be made end of this month. Multi-ch PQLS (when coupled with the new BDPs) is the biggest "feature" upgrade.

Aside from that, info is spotty.

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post #3 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 04:46 PM
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The only other rumor I can think of is that all Elite AVR's will have ICE amp stages, but nothing has been confirmed. Ever since the February shake-up at Pioneer, info has been slow, if not non-existent, due to my longtime DSM losing his job and our market just recently being reassigned. Our new DSM has introduced himself via e-mail, but I have not heard anything more on the new line-up set for release between June and August (usually means July and September). Sorry I can't be of more help at this moment, but I will keep people posted when I find anything out (that is unless someone beats me to it first - the Internet moves faster than I).

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post #4 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks TDI. What would "ICE amp stages" mean vs. the current ICE amps in the SC-05 / SC-07?
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post #5 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalhdtv View Post

Thanks TDI. What would "ICE amp stages" mean vs. the current ICE amps in the SC-05 / SC-07?

It would be the same ICE amplifier technology as the 05/07/09. Again, this is only a rumor/speculation. I sincerely hope to know something soon. The suspense is killing me like it is most enthusiasts for their line.

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post #6 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm guessing that Audyessy would be off the table? Or any kind of "advanced" dynamic volume control? (e.g. similar to the Onkyo SR-876)?
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post #7 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 05:11 PM
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Actually, I believe the first rumors of the new Elites is the VSX-LX52:

Link is from ssak in the SC-09TX (SC-LX90) thread:
looks like the replacement for the VSX-01 or 03 Elite (VSX-LX51).
The VSX would seem to indicate regular amps.. ICE Amps have been designated: SC-LXxx or SC-xx

VSX-LX52:
Multichannel PQLS
http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/pioneer...52/vsxlx52.asp

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av...4c-39000544q-1

Pioneer VSX-LX52
THX Select 2 Plus certified
5xHDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs with video scaling to 1080p
Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master audio decoding
Advanced MCACC room calibration
Multichannel PQLS for jitter-free audio playback over HDMI when paired with a Pioneer Blu-Ray Disc player
On Screen Display
Built in RDS AM/FM tuner
iPod Digital - allows you to connect modern iPods and iPhone digitally via USB - no need for an external dock
USB input
Multi-channel ASR and ALC to restore fidelity and volume equalisation to compressed audio and television broadcasts
Bi-amping capability
Zone 2 pre-out and video output
12v trigger outputs
Preset remote control
Kuro Link
Available in Black only

Details are tentative and sketchy..


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post #8 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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This is interesting (from the avland link):

Multi-channel ASR and ALC to restore fidelity and volume equalisation to compressed audio and television broadcasts

That's a cool feature that Onkyo offers - would like something similar on my SC-XX
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post #9 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalhdtv View Post

I'm guessing that Audyessy would be off the table? Or any kind of "advanced" dynamic volume control? (e.g. similar to the Onkyo SR-876)?

Your guess is as good as mine at the moment

Honestly, though, Elite receivers have used AIR Studios tuning software since the VSX-49, and I would seriously be surprised if they were to go in another direction. As far as the dynamic volume control, there may be an improvemnt is this area since some of their current receivers only implement an auto leveling control with regards to 2-channel material. Since selling the Elite series for 17-years, every year sees some incremental improvement, and this year will be no different, but the question remains as to what major improvements are in store.

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post #10 of 51 Old 06-09-2009, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Actually, I believe the first rumors of the new Elites is the VSX-LX52:

Link is from ssak in the SC-09TX (SC-LX90) thread:
looks like the replacement for the VSX-01 or 03 Elite (VSX-LX51).
The VSX would seem to indicate regular amps.. ICE Amps have been designated: SC-LXxx or SC-xx

VSX-LX52:
Multichannel PQLS
http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/pioneer...52/vsxlx52.asp

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av...4c-39000544q-1

Pioneer VSX-LX52
THX Select 2 Plus certified
5xHDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs with video scaling to 1080p
Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master audio decoding
Advanced MCACC room calibration
Multichannel PQLS for jitter-free audio playback over HDMI when paired with a Pioneer Blu-Ray Disc player
On Screen Display
Built in RDS AM/FM tuner
iPod Digital - allows you to connect modern iPods and iPhone digitally via USB - no need for an external dock
USB input
Multi-channel ASR and ALC to restore fidelity and volume equalisation to compressed audio and television broadcasts
Bi-amping capability
Zone 2 pre-out and video output
12v trigger outputs
Preset remote control
Kuro Link
Available in Black only

Details are tentative and sketchy..


CHP_VR - Thanks! I tend to overlook the world Pioneer chatter for info even though they know more than we do sooner (please forgive me!). Interesting that Pioneer has chosen not to derivate from the standard line as much as it was previously thought.

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post #11 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer adds 4 Elite receivers with iPhone hooks

Pioneer on Wednesday brought out four new home theater receivers to its flagship Elite lineup, including the top-rung SC-27 and SC-25, as well as the slightly lower-end VSX-21TXH and VSX-23TXH. All four have a customized USB/composite cable that allow users to integrate their iPhones and iPods into their home theater audio systems. Once connected, the Apple devices can be controlled via the systems' remote controls, and their content sent to 2nd and 3rd zones setup in the home. The SC-series units are meant to reproduce uncompressed Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio soundtracks found in movies recorded on Blu-ray Discs. Both have a Direct Energy HD Class D amp based on ICEpower.
The SC-27 is the first A/V receiver with a Class D amp to get THX Ultra2 Plus and AIR Studio monitor specifications for audio quality. While power numbers haven't been released, Pioneer did reveal both the SC-25 and SC-27 use Burr-Brown analog-to-digital converters and Wolfson digital-to-analog converters (DAC) for higher resolution signals. The SC-27 adds a pro-level Burr-Brown 192kHz/24-bit sampling rate converter for a wider dynamic range and jitter reduction.

The Elite VSX-21TXH and VSX-23TXH models use Direct Energy Class A/B amps with hand-picked DSPs. They both offer 1080p video scaling (including de-interlacing); the VSX-23TXH has front-panel mounted HDMI and USB inputs.

The four new models sport a visual interface that simplifies the initial setup and control. Digital music is helped by Advanced Sound Retriever and Auto Level Control, both of which help maintain detail and constant volume. Other noteworthy features common to the new Elite receivers include Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration (MCACC) room tuning that tunes the sound for a given room to cut down on low-end distortion and minimize lag between each of the different sound channels. Sirius satellite radio and Rhapsody Internet music services are accessible directly through the receivers. This network capability also allows users to hook up the receivers to their networked PCs and stream multimedia content.

They also feature multi-room, multi-source capability, with audio support for at least two zones. The VSX-23TXH offers a third zone, while the SC-27 has a second-zone component video output for sending out more than one HD video signal. All but the VSX-21TXH also have dual HDMI outputs.

The Pioneer Elite SC-25 and SC-27 will be available in August, with prices set at $1,700 and $2,000, respectively, while the Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH and VSX-21TXH are due to ship later in July, priced at $900 and $700.


Pioneer Elite SC-27
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post #12 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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post #13 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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attached
LL
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post #14 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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post #15 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 10:15 AM
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What, no height channels?

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post #16 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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wonder why the jump to -25 and -27 (vs -15 and -17)?
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post #17 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 05:14 PM
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Images of the rear panels for the new receivers (for the connectivity junkies out there like myself). These were taken from the instruction manuals, tweaked, then exported to PNG and SVGZ (available upon request for people who even know what it is, heh). Clicking an image takes you to a larger one. Make sure your browser doesn't leave it scaled to < 100%.

SC-27 (same as SC-25 except for fewer digital connections; manual used the same image with differences noted in the text).



VSX-23TXH



VSX-21TXH



Images are not perfectly scaled, so don't take any minor size differences as an indicator of real size; images are only intended to provide a quick glance at connectivity!

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post #18 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 06:08 PM
 
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Does anyone know what kind of HD video scaler/processor Pioneer using in VSX-21TXH and VSX-23TXH? I am curious to know if it is usual Faroudja or something better.
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post #19 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 08:48 PM
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Even the press release is hush-hush about the VP.
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post #20 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 09:01 PM
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Specifications on all the Elite models and comparisons can be made between models can be made on Pioneer's website now. Pio website has links to product brochures but the links are not working yet.
SC-25 and SC-27 both use the same Woflson WM8740 DAC as last year's SC-05 and SC-07.
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post #21 of 51 Old 07-01-2009, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung View Post

Specifications on all the Elite models and comparisons can be made between models can be made on Pioneer's website now. Pio website has links to product brochures but the links are not working yet.
SC-25 and SC-27 both use the same Woflson WM8740 DAC as last year's SC-05 and SC-07.



Where do it state this?
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post #22 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 04:22 AM
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Where do it state this?

You have to look at the Specifications tab. You can also do a comparison between the 2008 and 2009 models.
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post #23 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 04:24 AM
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Link on Pio website to product brochures on the 2009 Elite AVRs is working now.
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post #24 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung View Post

Specifications on all the Elite models and comparisons can be made between models can be made on Pioneer's website now. Pio website has links to product brochures but the links are not working yet.
SC-25 and SC-27 both use the same Woflson WM8740 DAC as last year's SC-05 and SC-07.

well im still finding a good Elite models right now.


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post #25 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 10:27 AM
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Assuming the street prices on these shave off 20+%, their new SC-27 sounds like a good value to me. Still wondering where the support for height surround is, but I don't think I could ever take that seriously. :P

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post #26 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 11:00 AM
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It would be interesting to read how Pioneer arrived at the decision not to include DPLIIz

Was it due to timing, money for engineering & software for the new chips combined with their financial situation?

OR

Was it more due to them not including it because marketing didn't perceive it as important to most users & not a big difference?

Steve
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post #27 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 11:20 AM
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Unfortunately the new SC-25 and SC-27 no longer do DSD Direct.
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post #28 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

It would be interesting to read how Pioneer arrived at the decision not to include DPLIIz

Was it due to timing, money for engineering & software for the new chips combined with their financial situation?

OR

Was it more due to them not including it because marketing didn't perceive it as important to most users & not a big difference?

I'm sure it was a combination of a number of things...but you would think they would at least support the codec in one of their Elite or non-Elite Blu Ray players. Looks like if I want DPLIIz supported, I'm going to have to get a BDP that decodes it for me.
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post #29 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

Unfortunately the new SC-25 and SC-27 no longer do DSD Direct.

Yes they do. See pg 32 of the user manual.



They convert raw DSD to PCM just like the SC-05 & 07 do.

CD

Reality Based.
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post #30 of 51 Old 07-02-2009, 07:34 PM
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Really?

The product sheets for the SC-05 and SC-07 indicate they do DSD Direct, which tends to connotate DSD --> analog decoding where as the product sheets for the SC-09 (older than the SC-05/07) as well as the new SC-25 and SC-27 specifically mention them having DSD to PCM converter.

Are you sure the SC-05 and SC-07 handled DSD that way? Are you sure they didn't have both options (most receivers that can do straight DSD decoding also offer DSD --> PCM as well)?
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