PLIIz Height Speaker Review - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 172 Old 04-15-2010, 10:11 AM
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Thanks, i am also debating between Pioneer VSX-920 vs. Onkyo TX-SR608 both the have the PIIz format. Which one do you think sounds better? I am pushing monitor 11 fronts.

Also do u know how I could angle the ceiling/wall speakers properly I don't think the cr-60's tilt, is there something I could do/buy to get them pointed the right way?
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post #152 of 172 Old 04-15-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmay35 View Post

Thanks, i am also debating between Pioneer VSX-920 vs. Onkyo TX-SR608 both the have the PIIz format. Which one do you think sounds better?

I haven't heard either one, and doubt that I could give good advice about which would sound better to you, even if I had heard both. I've ordered the vsx-1020 because I like the control over calibration that Advanced MCACC gives to users.

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post #153 of 172 Old 04-26-2010, 09:25 AM
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This all sounds interesting so can i ask a few questions .

If you buy into this new system i was just wondering what happens when you play a 7.1 track from a Blu Ray ?

I mean for most people the choice will be having 3 front speakers and 2 side and 2 rear speakers and of course the Amps are 7.1 so thats all you can achieve so what actually happens if you decide to go with 2 front height speakers instead of 2 side or rear speakers. Do you lose anything when playing back a 7.1 movie soundtrack or does the sound get shifted to the front height speakers and how would that work anyway ?

I would presume a special 7.1 track has been made to take advantage of side and rear surround speakers when played back on a 7.1 speaker setup and not to take advantage of front height so how does all that work if you choose front height and basically forego 2 of your surround speakers either side or surround back speakers ?

Bear in mind i know that 9.1 might be around the corner which would bypass this scenario but what happens for people who have just one option and thats surround back or side speakers or front height speakers and they choose the front height speakers.....Is there going to be a loss when using a 7.1 encoded Blu Ray ?

It would be great if Joe could test a 7.1 disc such as Rambo or the recent release of My Bloody Valentine or Prince Caspian or one of the other 7.1 encoded discs and report back his findings.

I think what FoxyMulder asks is my main concern too; I just upgraded my receiver to an Onkyo TX-NR807, I have a "classic" 7.1 configuration with 2 Surround Back Speakers. I've been reading a lot on PLIIz and DSX; I was thinking on changing my configuration to either Front Heights of Front Wides but haven't made my mind yet, I have some questions that maybe someone could help me with:

1. As FoxyMulder said: Is there going to be a loss when using a 7.1 encoded Blu Ray? or does the receiver send the backs to the front heights?.
2. In my room it's not going to be easy to mount the front heights, I probably have to do it from the ceiling, difficult but doable. Is it worthy? Or should i just keep them like they are...
3. What's the best option: front heights of front wides?
4. I don't have the option right now to have more speakers to listen to some sources with front heights and others with surround backs, which one would be best?; I mainly watch Satellite TV, DVDs, Blu Rays, my brothers plays a lot of Video Games too, I rarely listen to music in that room.
Thank you everyone for the effort, info and comments.
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post #154 of 172 Old 04-26-2010, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defuentes View Post

1. As FoxyMulder said: Is there going to be a loss when using a 7.1 encoded Blu Ray? or does the receiver send the backs to the front heights?.

You wouldn't want it to do that, would you? The Pioneer vsx-1020 7.1 lets you hook up both back surrounds and front heights, so you can switch the receiver's mode between 7.1 with back surrounds or Dolby IIz = 5.1 plus front heights. So there should be no loss. I think I read that one of this year's Onkyo 7.x models works similarly.

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post #155 of 172 Old 04-26-2010, 11:02 AM
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You wouldn't want it to do that, would you? The Pioneer vsx-1020 7.1 lets you hook up both back surrounds and front heights, so you can switch the receiver's mode between 7.1 with back surrounds or Dolby IIz = 5.1 plus front heights. So there should be no loss. I think I read that one of this year's Onkyo 7.x models works similarly.

Hi Greg, thank you!; that's exactly my point, my receiver does support that but it would mean buying extra speakers which maybe I could do, but let's say I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO CHOOSE between 7.1 with surround backs or with front heights, what would it be?. There's probably a lot of people here who have listened to both.
Thanks.
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post #156 of 172 Old 04-26-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defuentes View Post

Hi Greg, thank you!; that's exactly my point, my receiver does support that but it would mean buying extra speakers which maybe I could do, but let's say I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO CHOOSE between 7.1 with surround backs or with front heights, what would it be?. There's probably a lot of people here who have listened to both.
Thanks.

Like similar inferential post processors, DPLIIz is capable of expanding a 5.1 source into either a 'better' or 'worse' 7.1 soundstage, depending on the specifics of the source content. Because of the nature of the DPLIIz vs (say) DPLIIx, there is every likelihood that the DPLIIz extremes might be more pronounced. So the best answer to your question is probably "it depends!" Sorry!

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post #157 of 172 Old 04-26-2010, 12:16 PM
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Thanks SoundChex, OK so it depends, I'm going to do the actual experiment of placing speakers in the front height position and doing some listening. Another question tough, PLIIz does expand 5.1 encoded TrueHD and DTS-HDMA Blu Rays to 7.1 right? because PLIIx does not... I can apply PLIIx to standard DD & DTS tracks on SD-DVDs only.
Thank you.
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post #158 of 172 Old 04-26-2010, 09:50 PM
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PLIIx does expand True HD and DTS-MA 5.1 to 7.1 if the receiver can handle it.
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post #159 of 172 Old 04-27-2010, 10:18 AM
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PLIIx does expand True HD and DTS-MA 5.1 to 7.1 if the receiver can handle it.

Thank you!
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post #160 of 172 Old 05-07-2010, 04:26 PM
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I understand that PLIIz allows for adjustments. The Pioneer 1020 manual (p. 69) has "high," "mid," "low." Has anyone played around with this to see, for example, if this is any different than merely adjusting the speaker trims?
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post #161 of 172 Old 05-08-2010, 11:34 AM
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I read through this thread, but don't think I ever saw the answer to:

1) Does Audyssey assess and apply the appropriate trim for the height (PLiiZ) cannel?

2) For the 7.1 receivers, what happens when PLiiZ is activated WITH a true 7.1 movie?
*maybe that is why I am seeing 9.2 and 11.2 designations on newer higher end receivers....to address this issue.

3) With PLiiZ, is the extra height channels the same drain on the amp as going from 5.1 to 7.1? I know on the bench numbers, many receivers wattage really takes a hit when they go from 5.1 to 7.1. It would suck if the same power sacrifice across the board occurs with the PLiiZ channels.
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post #162 of 172 Old 05-10-2010, 09:17 AM
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Wait, is that picture with all the speakers everywhere in that room, including the ceiling, and the old 4:3 crt TV in the middle photoshopped? Because if it is, kudos, because that is pretty funny.
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post #163 of 172 Old 05-10-2010, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

1) Does Audyssey assess and apply the appropriate trim for the height (PLiiZ) cannel?

2) For the 7.1 receivers, what happens when PLiiZ is activated WITH a true 7.1 movie?
*maybe that is why I am seeing 9.2 and 11.2 designations on newer higher end receivers....to address this issue.

3) With PLiiZ, is the extra height channels the same drain on the amp as going from 5.1 to 7.1? I know on the bench numbers, many receivers wattage really takes a hit when they go from 5.1 to 7.1. It would suck if the same power sacrifice across the board occurs with the PLiiZ channels.

1) No, because IIz is Dolby; Audussey has DSX Height

3) If the speakers are outting out the same amount of sound, of course the drain is the same.

But it's a nonissue really; the height speakers (nor any other channel) would never have a sine wave signal applied like the test specs.

Noah
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post #164 of 172 Old 05-10-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Does Audyssey assess and apply the appropriate trim for the height (PLiiZ) cannel?

Not sure what you mean by "appropriate trim" but Audyssey will calibrate and EQ the height speakers appropriately (like it will for the other speakers). After that, you can send them height information using either Dolby PLIIz or Audyssey DSX (whichever processing you prefer).
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For the 7.1 receivers, what happens when PLiiZ is activated WITH a true 7.1 movie?

If you have a 7.1-speaker set-up that includes height speakers (3 front, 2 height, 2 surrounds), then your receiver will fold the 4 surround channels down to 2, PLIIz will extract decorrelated info and send it to the height speakers. Your receiver handles the downmix part, PLIIz does the height processing.
Quote:


*maybe that is why I am seeing 9.2 and 11.2 designations on newer higher end receivers....to address this issue.

Exactly. You don't have to choose either/or. You can have surround-back speakers AND height speakers.

Sanjay
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post #165 of 172 Old 05-10-2010, 11:12 AM
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I've considered adding heights, but I don't want to choose between backs and heights. Last year only the very higjh end allowed 9ch. Even many receivers that had 9 or 11 preouts only allowed use of 7 channels at any time. I'd like to see mid range avrs with pre outs allow using external amps to get 9 or even 11 channels simulyaneous. Until then I'll pass
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post #166 of 172 Old 05-10-2010, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrigavitch View Post

I've considered adding heights, but I don't want to choose between backs and heights. Last year only the very higjh end allowed 9ch. Even many receivers that had 9 or 11 preouts only allowed use of 7 channels at any time.

I really wanted both backs and heights, too, but, seeing no suitable product, gave up on that. At least with the new Pioneer 7.1 receivers, you can hook up both backs and heights, you just can't play them both at once. The Pioneer vsx-1120 has 9.1 pre-outs, but it might well be restricted to playing only 7.1 channels at a time --- there's no manual available, so one can't tell.

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post #167 of 172 Old 05-15-2010, 02:45 PM
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I got my Pioneer vsx-1020 7.1 AVR yesterday, got the front height speakers hooked up this morning, and listened to Jacques Perrin's "Winged Migration" (DD 5.1) with Dolby PLIIz. I think it sounds very good. Since I don't trust myself as a critic, knowing as I do costs and specs on my equipment, I had my wife listen for a bit (she's not at all interested in the equipment side of hi-fi). Her reaction was that my setup now "sounded like an auditorium". Since I didn't think the sound of birds flying around in an auditorium was necessarily a good effect, I asked whether she meant a large echo-y space like a concert hall or a basketball court, and she said no, she meant that the sounds were coming from all sides.

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post #168 of 172 Old 05-19-2010, 11:43 AM
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How do you think this one compares to the others? Do the other ones have the hdmi pass threw feature?
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post #169 of 172 Old 05-19-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmay35 View Post

How do you think this one compares to the others? Do the other ones have the hdmi pass threw feature?

The vsx-1020 does not have pass through, assuming you mean that you can put the receiver into standby mode and still see the TV picture that is fed through the receiver. (The 1020 does have a setting to pass the TV signal through unaffected by the receiver and with no sound from the receiver.)

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post #170 of 172 Old 12-10-2010, 07:34 PM
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IN RESPONSE to those curious as to what equipment I use in my HT,
This may infuriate some and perplex others.
I'm especially aware of this since I've been following this site for at least three years and my fellow enthusiast's strong likes and dislikes for certain brands are IMO unsubstantial. I just recently decided to register at AVS to finally fuel my passion for HT and more specifically sound.
I have two 110 watt SONY 7.1 receivers($470 each in 2004 money). Ohh. Yes that's right SONY. I've tried the Comparable Onkyo's, Denon's, Harmon Kardons, and a few others. They're all actually great, but for my purposes the SONYs are for me untouchable.
For Center channels I'm using a SONY center. Directly above it A JBL center. 10 feet above it (I have a cathedral ceiling) Another Sony Center.
For Front channels I have two 1996 SONY towers on the left and right. (As the educated know, speaker tech hasn't dramatically changed under the $5,000 dollar range since their inception.) 6 Feet above those towers I have two bookshelf SONYs Matrixed into the Front B channels (For height superiority). Next to those SONY towers I have (what most around the net without foundation refer to as sleezy VAN speakers-whatever-the proof is in the sound) 2 AUDIOLINE towers. In between the SONYs and AUDIOLINES I have two no brand towers with mids tweeters and 12' subs Matrixed into the Front Channels.
In between the six towers I have one 12' sub KLH. And one 12' sub JBL, both down firing.
On that front wall in between the centers I have a 106 inch 2.5 gain DaLite screen.
Three feet in front of that screen and on the side walls, 10 feet above, I have two JBL reference speakers also Matrixed into the front B channels for height sound.
I have two massive surrounds (each with mids, tweets and 12'subs) of a non-name label which i bought from a neighbor for 40 bucks (steal) on the floor on both sides of the listening position. Directly above those I have two more SONY bookshelf speakers about ten feet up for height surround.
On the back wall about ten feet up I have another SONY center for Surround Back. MAtrixed into that speaker I have 2 KLHs for SBL and SBR. About 2 feet in front of those on the side walls I have two more SONY bookshelf speakers to round out True SBL and SBR.
On that back wall I have a pleather sofa(yes fake leather) that seats four about a foot off the ground for stadium seating which puts the viewer about 4.5 feet above the front sofa. On both sides of the sofa I have two bookshelf JBLs Matrixed into more Surround L and R.
IN between the seating is where I have a 1996 SONY sub which puts out as much power as the front subs but is only a 6 inch woofer.(I'm still impressed with it) Next to it I have my rack with the two receivers, my IN72 projector, and dvd upscaler ( Still saving up for bluray player-wife couldn't care less-Although I have auditioned a PS3 and WOW!)
On the other side of the rack I have an ONKYO 12' sub down firing.
ALL this in a 25 foot long room-20 feet wide.
Believe in what your ears tell you. And everyone else will. I've been to my friend's house who have spent 25,000 on their professionally installed Klipsch theater (And i love Klipsch!) and then had them come over to my theater and blow them out of the water without question. Most come over and shed a tear during viewing. The PQ is ok (as you all know the IN72 is 480p native) but the sound is celestial. I play Apollo 13 when the shuttle launches and My street knows it. My audience becomes overwhelmed with the emotion and turn to me with jaws dropped and a tear rolling down their cheeks. I've spent maybe 8 to ten thousand over six years building this overkill home theater. But the proof again is in your ears. Would I buy more expensive brands and maybe have them all be uniform? In a heartbeat. But we're not rich and neither are most readers here. We're here to EXPERIENCE the movies.
Just like MONSTER and BOSE rip people off so do most speaker companies. Once again the tech is still ANALOG. I love movies and actually am writing spec scripts for Hollywood. No luck yet, but when one sells, Im going to buy 28 Klipsch speakers and four 15' Klipsch woofers. And the IN83 or better. With Matrixing knowledge NO ONE should Stop at your BASIC 7.1 set up. You're cheating yourself out of a SONIC ORGASM.

p.s. I use to be apathetic to the MAC vs PC debate, but man. XP sucks compared to OS X. I do have pics and will post them when I find them in my comp files. I'm using a DELL and I miss my stolen Mac.


sounds like a Gouldmund media room. most will not be able to understand without pictures.[/quote]



First off, cool system... Must sound sweet...


I have a 7.1 rotel system at the moment and love the sound..

I however do have all 9.1 speakers in my room and mounted..

If using my rotel, would I do the following to make a fake Front Height Channels...

- first hookup the main 7.1 speakers to my 7 channles of amps.
- then for the front height speakers, would I then take the positive from the left surround channel amp and goto the positive on the hight speakers (they would be running in parallel. both positives joined together and both negatives joined together), and take the negative from the height speakers and goto the positive on the right surround channel amp?

I use to use this positive to positive trick in past to get out of phase info for fake surround without a surround receiver...

Thanks and hope you can shed some light on how you do your magix for the outofphase matrixing for the front height speakers...
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post #171 of 172 Old 04-10-2011, 12:41 AM
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I recently bought a Denon 4311 receiver and am running 9.2 with two height speakers. I love the effect. I use Dolby PLIIz. The affect is quite obvious with my MKSound bookshelfs. It basically makes the entire front soundstage sound about 12 feet high. I find a really good example of the affect is found during the rain sequence at the beginning of the movie Unforgiven. If I stuck some misters up on my ceiling you would swear my living room was raining

my two cents...
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post #172 of 172 Old 04-10-2011, 12:00 PM
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what are some examples of movies which have a lot of stuff happening for the Dolby IIz...?

Thanks,

Rana

a few funny stories from my life ------->http://www.kirtirana.blogspot.com
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