LFE vs Line Level - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a newby question/observation.
I have a receiver with an LFE output and a sub with an LFE input. On a significant number of dvd's from my player and movies via dish, the signal level either does not drive at all or is so low it is useless.
I also use the system for music where there is no LFE at all, so I drive the sub with the two front speaker line level outputs.
This renders the LFE output useless....is this common, or am I missing something?
Thanks for your input.
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post #2 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 08:40 AM
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Aren't you using bass management to route the low bass from the other channels to the sub?

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post #3 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I said newby....what's base management?
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post #4 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

I said newby....what's base management?

Bass management is what I described: Rerouting the low bass from your main channels to your sub. It is part of the required set-up routines of all receivers and prepros. What AVR do you have? Did you go through the setup described in the manual?

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post #5 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Excuse me....I mean't "bass".
I looked up bass management in the "Setup" section of this site...which did not help.
I have no settings iin my manual regrding this subject. I must admit my ignorance.
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post #6 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

Excuse me....I mean't "bass".
I looked up bass management in the "Setup" section of this site...which did not help.
I have no settings iin my manual regrding this subject. I must admit my ignorance.

What AVR is it? Did you go through all the setup menus?

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post #7 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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My AVR is old and cheap....Kenwood VR405. The sub is Definitive.
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post #8 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I gather newer AVR's have some sort of setup imbedded that helps with this task.
So what I have is as good as it gets without stepping up to today's technology.
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post #9 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

My AVR is old and cheap...

Therein lies the rub. If the AVR is "old and cheap" and it has an output labeled "LFE" (instead of the likes of "sub" or "subwoofer"), is it possible that it does not have any bass management capabilities?

AJ
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post #10 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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It is labeled "LFE/Sub woofer pre out".
But I guess the problem remains the same.
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post #11 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 10:18 AM
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If you are going to use the L/R pre-outs, you need to set the receiver up as having NO SUB.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
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post #12 of 19 Old 06-22-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

It is labeled "LFE/Sub woofer pre out".
But I guess the problem remains the same.

See pages 15 and 16 in your manual. Set your speakers to Normal and follow all the instructions.

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post #13 of 19 Old 06-25-2009, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay...so I have setup everything per the manual...I have my sat box audio via optical audio direct to the receiver and the dvd via coax.
Here is what I have found:
All surround modes (including stereo 3) yeild a sub pre out signal except std. stereo. In addition if I turn the stereo volume up past -38 it shuts the receiver off, in the surround modes shuts off at about -18.

Is my receiver just a POS??
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post #14 of 19 Old 06-25-2009, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh...is it normal not to have a sub preout signal in the stereo mode?
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post #15 of 19 Old 06-25-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

Is my receiver just a POS??

Possibly. I have no knowledge of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

Oh...is it normal not to have a sub preout signal in the stereo mode?

Depends. Check the manual.

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post #16 of 19 Old 06-25-2009, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Well "KAL", I'm sure you are trying to be helpful but your post is cryptic at best.

Let me clearify....if the manual says something about no sub preout in the stereo mode I sure don't see it...again my question is "would this be typical" do the current crop of receivers exclude sub signals in the stereo mode?

And......why would my receiver shut down at certain volume levels? Perhaps it is an obvious indication of amp failure, or could I have something "obvious" hooked up incorrectly.
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post #17 of 19 Old 06-25-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

Well "KAL", I'm sure you are trying to be helpful but your post is cryptic at best.

Let me clearify....if the manual says something about no sub preout in the stereo mode I sure don't see it...again my question is "would this be typical" do the current crop of receivers exclude sub signals in the stereo mode?

Dunno. I don't have any hand's on experience with any AVRs. Of the two prepros I have, both have it as optional.

Quote:


And......why would my receiver shut down at certain volume levels? Perhaps it is an obvious indication of amp failure, or could I have something "obvious" hooked up incorrectly.

This is usually caused by either improper speaker wiring or speakers with low sensitivity or speakers with low impedance.

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post #18 of 19 Old 06-25-2009, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

...........again my question is "would this be typical" do the current crop of receivers exclude sub signals in the stereo mode?

The "current crop" of AVRs allow you to designate whether your speakers are LARGE (no crossover applied) or SMALL (crossover applied). When a speaker channel is set to SMALL, the bass from that channel below our set crossover point will be rerouted to the subwoofer. If a speaker channel is set to LARGE, no crossover will be applied to that channel and the speaker will, instead, be sent a full-range signal. With the front speakers set to LARGE, since no bass will be rerouted to the subwoofer, there will be no subwoofer output in stereo mode.

Your AVR appears to call the SMALL setting NORMAL. It is possible that with 2-channel material, your AVR's bass management is bypasssed even when the NORMAL setting is used. AVRs can also have settings or modes which intentionally bypass any processing in order to provide cleaner performance. See page18 in your manual. SOURCE DIRECT.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt View Post

And......why would my receiver shut down at certain volume levels? Perhaps it is an obvious indication of amp failure, or could I have something "obvious" hooked up incorrectly.

There are several reasons why this can happen. Your speakers may have a lower impedance than can be comfortably driven by your receiver's amps. Your receiver may not be adequately ventilated, therefore it is overheating. If the amp doesn't shut down immediately, then it is probably not a wiring problem. What speakers are you driving?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

See pages 15 and 16 in your manual. Set your speakers to Normal and follow all the instructions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Depends. Check the manual.

Do you have a manual or not? Have you read it? If you need a manual, we can provide a link.

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post #19 of 19 Old 06-26-2009, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Tadaa...I fugured everything out.

The amp shutting down was caused by a stray speaker wire strand going to chassis ground.
The sub preout signal in the stereo mode can only be acheived if the front speakers are set to normal..

Thanks for everyones help and patience.
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