*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 12:38 AM
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I know this was one of the first things asked and is on the first post... But once again.

Should I get the new AVR-890 or get the AVR-989 from last year for slightly less.

I'm just wondering if buying the newer 890 is a step up from last year 989...

Never owned a receiver before. Just used to those crap $200 HTiB all these years.
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post #302 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 03:52 AM
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Hey guys

Quick question.... I am about to order an 890 and want to make sure that I can assign audio inputs to HDMI inputs?

Might sound like a strange request to some but for my WD TV and Satellite box that dont send audio over HDMI in one way or another. I would like to be able to assign an optical or coax audio input to a HDMI input?

Any help or info would be greatly appreciated.

JR
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post #303 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 06:34 AM
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I asked this question in it's own thread, but didn't get any replies. I am helping a friend with a new theater setup. Looking at the Denon 2310 or 3310. He wants to get the Ipod dock with either receiver. Will a 2310 with the ASD-3N have the same network capabilities (locally stored files and streamed internet audio) as the 3310?

Rich
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post #304 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Madness View Post

Should I get the new AVR-890 or get the AVR-989 from last year for slightly less.

If you search this thread and/or the 2809CI/989 thread, you'll see batpig has provided very comprehensive answers to this question (it gets asked a lot). There's also a "2009 - 2010 AVRs" thread with tons of good info.

However in short, the 890 is one tier below the 989 (which has itself been replaced by the 990) and so in general you'd be better off buying the 989. Where this gets tricky is that the 989 did not have OSD for HDMI inputs, which is a feature that a lot of people want.

In my own case, I decided to buy the 989 for my primary listening setup, where audio quality was more important than OSD, and I plan to buy a 890 for my secondary listening setup where audio quality is less of a consideration.

YMMV of course.
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post #305 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

that is just horrible. after 90 days you have to pay $29 to have tech support help you with your remote?!

the thing that is screwed up is that their database is incomplete!! if they would include Dynamic EQ/Vol discretes, channel volume discretes, etc. in their database it wouldn't be an issue.

Hmm. Sounds like some confusion around the Harmony's support. First off, if you browse their forum (the "blog") you will see at least 2 or 3 Logitech employees actively browsing and reading threads. I've usually gotten PM's back from somone within an hour or so.

Also, I just spoke to someone there and there was no mention of a charge or anything. Now, that could be because I was helping THEM out, not vice versa. On that note, they either now have, or are working on completing, a revised COMPLETE remote setup for the 890/2310. I spent an hour on the phone and logged on to my account and we programmed a ton of stuff. The guy said they found some VERY interesting things as far as what codes worked and didn't work. He took the info he gathered from me and gave it to his tech department to plug away at. Anyway, bottom line, hopefully it isn't long before you guys have full automatic support of this receiver right from the Logitech database
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post #306 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 07:28 AM
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With all the Harmony talk, has anyone directly connected the Harmony wireless IR blaster (used with RF remotes like the 890) to the 2310 remote control terminal for non-line of sight control?

I intend to do this when I hook everything up in a week or so, but have had trouble with directly connecting devices to the IR blaster ports.
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post #307 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 07:29 AM
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Had the receiver for about 2 weeks now. Ran Audyssey four times now, until I was finally happy with the results (main problem was sub was maxed out to +12 after setup, so had to keep bumping up the volume on the subs until it became reasonable).

Anyway, twice now while using the Sony Blu Ray player, both movies outputting Dolby True HD (I know cuz I got that blue light on the Denon....as Batpig said in his FAQ - I love me some lights! lol). During both movies, during shouting/yelling/generally loud vocals, my center sounds like it has some high end distortion. I wouldn't necessarily pinpoint it as sounding like bass distortion...more of a crackle/garble sound. The overall volume is NOT obsene, and in fact, I wouldn't mind turning it up even more to hear the vocals a bit better (-8.0 volume fwiw...I know that's sort of relative).

The rest of the speakers and sound are just fine. Off the top of my head, the Audyssey crossover setting put it at 90 hz for the center, which seems logical (but I don't have an indepth understanding of all that, so who knows). Input offset level is around -7.0, I think. Also, Ausyssey Dynamix EQ is on, but Dynamic Volume off.

The speaker itself is a beefy JBL Studio series PII center that can certainly handle the juice. I've had this speaker for years, and old my previous Kenwood VR-6070 receiver, I never heard a HINT of distortion with ANY movie. So, obviously this is pretty frustrating...spending all this money to upgrade stuff and now cringing each time there is "loud" vocals and it results in crappy sound. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it sounds like static or something, when this occurs. It's the kind of thing I know my wife doesn't evne notice, but since I have a critical ear, it drives me up a wall.

Any suggestions or ideas are welcome, as far as crossover, input offset, dolby true hd, audyssey, etc etc. I'm kind of at a loss.
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post #308 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I highly doubt it has anything to do with crossovers, Dolby TrueHD, Audyssey, etc. I'm assuming you've tried these scenes with Audyssey disengaged to verify, right?

Crackling/distortion from the speaker is probably either bad wiring, distortion from the amps, or a failing speaker.

Find a scene where you can reproduce the "crackling" sound. Try swapping the center with another speaker temporarily, e.g. swap it with one of your fronts. Replay the scene, and see if the crackling is still present. If it "follows" the center speaker you know the speaker is the problem. If it is still present but it sticks on the center channel output, something may be up with the receiver.


Quote:


On that note, they either now have, or are working on completing, a revised COMPLETE remote setup for the 890/2310. I spent an hour on the phone and logged on to my account and we programmed a ton of stuff. The guy said they found some VERY interesting things as far as what codes worked and didn't work. He took the info he gathered from me and gave it to his tech department to plug away at.

good luck with that, many of us went through the exact same exercise with '09 models, begging the tech support guys to simply add these commands to the general Denon database so they wouldn't have to do this repeatedly for individual users. I'll believe it when I see it

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post #309 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Madness View Post

I know this was one of the first things asked and is on the first post... But once again.

Should I get the new AVR-890 or get the AVR-989 from last year for slightly less.

I'm just wondering if buying the newer 890 is a step up from last year 989...

Never owned a receiver before. Just used to those crap $200 HTiB all these years.


what's more important to you?

(1) having the newest gadgets and maximum video flexibility (5 HDMI, on-screen GUI with overlay, and hi-end scaling)?

or (2) maximum raw audio performance and expandability (MultEQ XT, better amps and DAC's, pre-outs, etc)?

that is the decision in a nutshell.

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post #310 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks1839 View Post

With all the Harmony talk, has anyone directly connected the Harmony wireless IR blaster (used with RF remotes like the 890) to the 2310 remote control terminal for non-line of sight control?

I intend to do this when I hook everything up in a week or so, but have had trouble with directly connecting devices to the IR blaster ports.


If this DOES happen, since I already added the 2310 device to my logitech account, will it automatically update the 2310 device profile or do I have to do something?
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post #311 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacoster80 View Post

Hey guys

Quick question.... I am about to order an 890 and want to make sure that I can assign audio inputs to HDMI inputs?

Might sound like a strange request to some but for my WD TV and Satellite box that dont send audio over HDMI in one way or another. I would like to be able to assign an optical or coax audio input to a HDMI input?

Any help or info would be greatly appreciated.

JR

You can on the 2310, not sure about the 890.
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post #312 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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well, since you have clearly been a good boy and read the first post, and you therefore know that the 890 and 2310CI are basically IDENTICAL receivers, I will assume that you are being sarcastic because obviously if it can be done with one it can be done with the other

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post #313 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I highly doubt it has anything to do with crossovers, Dolby TrueHD, Audyssey, etc. I'm assuming you've tried these scenes with Audyssey disengaged to verify, right?

Crackling/distortion from the speaker is probably either bad wiring, distortion from the amps, or a failing speaker.

Find a scene where you can reproduce the "crackling" sound. Try swapping the center with another speaker temporarily, e.g. swap it with one of your fronts. Replay the scene, and see if the crackling is still present. If it "follows" the center speaker you know the speaker is the problem. If it is still present but it sticks on the center channel output, something may be up with the receiver.

It doesn't distort as much with Audyssey Dyn EQ dissengaged, but, the overall sound quality diminishes so I hate turning that off. As far as wiring...that's actually just a 2.5 foot speaker cable going right from the center down to the receiver, which is in great shape and wired securely. Have to say it's not the speaker failing since, with the old setup I had, I never heard one hint of this trouble. Overall, with the Kenwood the way I had it set up, I had much more pronounced and crisp vocals. These now seem muddled, too quiet, and almost too "bassy", not to mention the distortion when it gets to a loud scene.
When I was messing around and changed the center's crossover to 240 hz, shouldn't that have stripped all the bass tones out of the vocals coming from the center? I was surprised at the lack of impact made by changing the crossover from 90 to 240.
The thought of manually adjusting the EQ for the center crossed my mind, but from reading the FAQ, it seems like that will wipe out Audyssey.


Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

good luck with that, many of us went through the exact same exercise with '09 models, begging the tech support guys to simply add these commands to the general Denon database so they wouldn't have to do this repeatedly for individual users. I'll believe it when I see it

Well, Logitech contacted ME out of the blue, so I would hope they aren't just wasting their own time and effort.
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post #314 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 12:40 PM
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Has anyone been able to compare the difference in upconversion between the 1910 and 2310? I'm very curious if the better ABT processor in the 2310 is worth the extra money. I'm planning to let my receiver do all the upconversion from a HTPC, and I watch a lot of SD material.
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post #315 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 01:44 PM
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Just curious what surround mode you guys are watching movies on with the 2310CI? I am using Audyssey with the Dynamic EQ and volume on. Thanks
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post #316 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy1976 View Post

Just curious what surround mode you guys are watching movies on with the 2310CI?

Normally EQ on Volume off which on my Denon AVR is the default.

The Volume feature is meant to handle those annoyingly loud commercials - this is obviously not needed if you are watching a DVD/Blu-ray.

The EQ feature is meant for listening at reduced levels, say late at night. Since I rarely do this, I should turn it off and go flat but I'm too lazy to change the default. Beside the amount of EQ applied is supposedly automagically adjusted depending on volume you are listening at, in other words at normal listening levels the amount of EQ applied should be very small.
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post #317 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ings View Post

Normally EQ on Volume off which on my Denon AVR is the default.

The Volume feature is meant to handle those annoyingly loud commercials - this is obviously not needed if you are watching a DVD/Blu-ray.

The EQ feature is meant for listening at reduced levels, say late at night. Since I rarely do this, I should turn it off and go flat but I'm too lazy to change the default. Beside the amount of EQ applied is supposedly automagically adjusted depending on volume you are listening at, in other words at normal listening levels the amount of EQ applied should be very small.

I wonder if I can switch off the dynamic volume control just for my DVD input and leave it on for satelite TV??? That would be cool. I will have to check.I have to have the volume control on when watching TV or it drives me nuts. The commercials get real loud.
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post #318 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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yes, Audyssey EQ settings are memorized BY INPUT.

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post #319 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, Audyssey EQ settings are memorized BY INPUT.

Great! Thanks for the post!
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post #320 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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just to clarify:

Quote:
The EQ feature is meant for listening at reduced levels, say late at night. Since I rarely do this, I should turn it off and go flat

Dynamic EQ is not just meant for extremely reduced levels; ANY TIME your volume dial is below "0" (i.e. "reference") then Dynamic EQ is working to maintain the tonal balance of your system. It should improve the listening experience at essentially ANY volume level, although the effect will be more dramatic the lower the volume gets.

In most circumstances, Dynamic EQ should be left ON at all times unless you encounter a source with a screwed-up "reference" level (e.g. a poorly mastered video game, TV show, or certain music) where it sounds cruddy with Dyn. EQ on.

The point is that MultEQ + Dynamic EQ work in tandem to ensure proper "reference quality" tonal balance at any volume level. MultEQ corrects for the room/speaker acoustic environment to provide a "flat" tonal response at reference volumes; Dynamic EQ maintains this tonal balance as the volume drops below "reference".


Quote:
The Volume feature is meant to handle those annoyingly loud commercials - this is obviously not needed if you are watching a DVD/Blu-ray.

the Dynamic Volume feature is NOT just for commercials; that is simply the most obvious application. The point of Dynamic Volume is to control wild swings in "loudness" in any type of content which would have you jumping for the remote control. This could also include DVD/Blu-Ray -- for example, most married men have experienced the "turn up the volume to hear the dialogue and then quickly try and turn it down when the explosions start booming before the wife yells at you" scenario.

So saying Dynamic Volume is only useful with TV is not doing it justice; it will really depend on your listening environment and habits. If you can crank up the volume and don't care how loud the explosions are, no problem, leave it off. But in ANY situation where you find you need to constantly adjust volume (e.g. explosions vs dialogue) then Dynamic Volume could be useful.

The point is that Dynamic Volume is constantly monitoring the content and making decisions about when to let the full dynamic range work and when to restrict it; in this sense, it is a much more sophisticated and effective system than simple "Night" modes which basically do a "dumb" compression of all content. Dynamic Volume is intended to allow you to not have to compromise a rich, full-sounding surround experience when you need to compress the dynamic range.

I personally use Dynamic Volume for all TV and movie content. If I am watching movies with my wife I will leave it on "Evening" mode as it will still sound great (full, rich, and bassy) but the sound effects are not so overwhelming that my wife yells at me. I can watch an entire movie with my wife without having to touch the volume control, which is the whole point.

I almost never use Dynamic Volume with music content, only when it's really late at night and I want to avoid waking the wife up. It actually does a surprisingly effective job at allowing the music to sound "uncompressed" while still keeping the overall "loudness" at a manageable level. But that's a rare thing...

Basically, experiment with Dynamic Volume and see how it works for you in various contexts; do NOT assume it's only for TV commercials!

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post #321 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 04:33 PM
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Still wondering what surround mode is optimal for movies/blu rays. Example: 5ch., rock, matrix, virtual, ect. I know it can be mostly preference I was just curious. I still have to sit down and read my manual and stuff.
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post #322 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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stick to the "Standard" button, avoid the "DSP SIMU" modes.

Denon AVR's are designed to work best with "straight" decoding, playing the sources exactly as mixed.

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post #323 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

stick to the "Standard" button, avoid the "DSP SIMU" modes.

Denon AVR's are designed to work best with "straight" decoding, playing the sources exactly as mixed.

Cool. I just got done watching Ironman on Blu Ray!!! What a awesome movie on my system!!
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post #324 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I highly doubt it has anything to do with crossovers, Dolby TrueHD, Audyssey, etc. I'm assuming you've tried these scenes with Audyssey disengaged to verify, right?

Crackling/distortion from the speaker is probably either bad wiring, distortion from the amps, or a failing speaker.

Find a scene where you can reproduce the "crackling" sound. Try swapping the center with another speaker temporarily, e.g. swap it with one of your fronts. Replay the scene, and see if the crackling is still present. If it "follows" the center speaker you know the speaker is the problem. If it is still present but it sticks on the center channel output, something may be up with the receiver.




good luck with that, many of us went through the exact same exercise with '09 models, begging the tech support guys to simply add these commands to the general Denon database so they wouldn't have to do this repeatedly for individual users. I'll believe it when I see it

Sorry for the double post, don't know if you missed my last one...


Below is the response I received from Logitech. I asked them to copy your 3808 device to my account, however the only device for Denon in my account is my 2310. I am away from my remote for a few days, is there anyway to tell through the logitech software that they copied over your commands to my 2310 device? (on a side note, I did see something about having to pay for phone support when I originally sent this email through the form).

"Thank you for your recent inquiry about your Harmony Remote.

I understand your request and have copied all requested commands. Please Update and test your Remote.

If you would like further information and other tips on customizing your remote please visit the FAQ portion of your Harmony member website. To access, Click Support, then click FAQ while logged in your harmony member page.

We hope that we were able to assist you in resolving this issue, however if you are still experiencing any difficulties with your Harmony Remote, please feel free to contact us again.

Regards,

Sheldon"
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post #325 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezatnova View Post

Hmm. Sounds like some confusion around the Harmony's support. First off, if you browse their forum (the "blog") you will see at least 2 or 3 Logitech employees actively browsing and reading threads. I've usually gotten PM's back from somone within an hour or so.

Not too much confusion. The new policy was announced by Logitech on June 6 and went into effect on July 1. There was quite a discussion about it. Hey, the Logitech support guys are great to work with, but the database is a mess. I worked with them getting some bugs worked out with the Pioneer 111FD last year, and the entry for it has still not been updated, much like batpig's 3808.

Logitech has expressed a desire to get the database in order and put out a request for input in the forum. Did you respond to that thread? They said they were going to start contacting people, so maybe you're an indication that they've started. I sure hope so. And I also hope that you make sure that they get those extra Audyssey codes from batpig's 3808CI!
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post #326 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

just to clarify:

Excellent post! I sure hope Denon has in some way recognized your contributions here.

I think the only thing I'd quibble with is that my bias is to not monkey around with the dynamic range that the creative team has (optimistically speaking) carefully worked out for a film soundtrack. But I understand the "spouse factor" scenario.
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post #327 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bouda View Post

I asked them to copy your 3808 device to my account, however the only device for Denon in my account is my 2310. I am away from my remote for a few days, is there anyway to tell through the logitech software that they copied over your commands to my 2310 device?"

I'm not batpig, but you can see if they got all his codes by looking for some of the special buttons in the remote software. Select the 2310, click "Settings", select "Customize Buttons", then for any button click on the Command and it will show you a list of available commands. Look to see if it has any commands starting with "DynEQ" (there should be four), or "DynamicEQ" (there are three of those). There are more, but if you got those you probably have them all. Let us know what you find.
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post #328 of 7193 Old 07-23-2009, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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you don't have to have the remote to check the software, all you need is the software and then you can log into your account and see what's there. as Fred said, all you have to do is scroll through your device profile and see what commands are listed.

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post #329 of 7193 Old 07-24-2009, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredT View Post

I'm not batpig, but you can see if they got all his codes by looking for some of the special buttons in the remote software. Select the 2310, click "Settings", select "Customize Buttons", then for any button click on the Command and it will show you a list of available commands. Look to see if it has any commands starting with "DynEQ" (there should be four), or "DynamicEQ" (there are three of those). There are more, but if you got those you probably have them all. Let us know what you find.

Got it. Looks like they copied them over. Thanks Fred and Batpig.
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post #330 of 7193 Old 07-24-2009, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bouda View Post

Got it. Looks like they copied them over. Thanks Fred and Batpig.

Good deal! You've now got a more complete 2310 remote profile than the the one in their database. Why oh why could they not have just updated the database.

BTW, was this a new remote, or did you have to pay to get it done?
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