*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 126 - AVS Forum
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post #3751 of 7224 Old 03-02-2010, 05:24 PM
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jd,

Thanks for the 2310 update. No audio problems through HDMI-DVI now!
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post #3752 of 7224 Old 03-02-2010, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

no you don't plasmas are FIXED PIXEL displays, you probably have a 768p set.

He might well have what he says. Hitachi made some plasmas that were "1080i". Here is a review that says:
Its 50-inch, 1,920-by-1,080-pixel screen updates every other horizontal line per cycle, effectively making it an interlaced display. I've never seen one in action, but the concept does have a sort of elegance to it. Plasma is inherently a phosphor display, and here the screen resolution directly matches what is being broadcast. Almost like viewing on a CRT? But that's theoretical, if you read the (very short) review, the guy mentions "artifacts associated with interlacing".
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post #3753 of 7224 Old 03-02-2010, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsforumuser09 View Post

I can either downgrade to a lower Denon model or a lower Oppo model so that I only have one Anchor Bay chip and save $200-$300 in the process. What do you think?

Although it is uncertain as to what difference would actually be noticed, as mentioned several times in this thread, the ABT chip in the Oppo is fully implemented, while the ABT chip in the 2310 is only partially implemented.

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post #3754 of 7224 Old 03-02-2010, 09:43 PM
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Denon 2310ci vs. ?? and why I just ordered the 2310

I have been researching receivers for a short while and I thought it might help someone else who is doing the same to know why I chose the 2310. First some background:

This receiver will be used in our living room. I do not have a high end set up. It only consists of: 46” Samsung DLP, PS3, Verizon FIOS Motorola HD DVR, Panasonic combo VCR / DVD player, Paradigm Monitor 3 speakers for Front Left and Right, CC-350 Center, and PS-1000 sub, generic Sony bookshelf speakers for Rear Left and Right surrounds, all of these speakers are 8 Ohm.

I also have a family room that will be converted to a higher end home theater at some point down the road.

I looked at numerous receivers including:

Denon: 2310, 3310, 4310, 3808, 4306, 4308, 2809
Onkyo: HT-RC180, 707, 807, 876, 906, 1007
Pioneer: 1019, 9040, 9140, 21thx, 23thx
Yamaha: 2065, and briefly at 665 and others
I also considered (though not very seriously) separates of various brands and other higher end brand receivers such as Rotel, and NAD.

After doing the research I decided that I don’t have the time to go listen to all of these in person. Many of them are not easy to find. Additionally, the variations in speakers, set-up, room configuration, and settings on the devices would make A vs. B comparisons very difficult. Therefore I proceeded based on numerous internet reviews, specs, forum discussions, and manufacturer reputations. In general, it appears that given my current room configuration and components, nearly any one of the receivers listed above would likely sound good. No doubt some will sound better than others, and likely in ascending price order. However since this is being used in the living room and will be used for 99% TV and movies 1% music, I don’t think that I will be able to get my money’s worth buying a $1,500 unit over the $500 unit.

That single decision alone effectively eliminated everything that I could not find on the net (new or refurbished) for $800 or less.

Taking as a given that they all have good to excellent sound quality, next I decided based on features. Some of the key differentiating features for me are: dynamic volume / dynamic EQ, high quality video scaler, on-screen volume display through HDMI, 5.1(or more) analog input for HTPC or other, ease of use (for my spouse especially), HDMI inputs and at least one output. All of the Denon XX10 models have all of these features. The older Denons were eliminated based on price, video chip, and lack of on screen volume display through HDMI.

My general thoughts on the models (based only on searched information):

Onkyo:
RC180 eliminated due to lack of 6ch (multichannel) external analog input, reported runs hot, Faroujda DCDi video vs. ABT
707, 807 eliminated due to reported high temps, no multichannel inputs, and Faroujda chips
876, 906 eliminated due to price and long switching times when channel surfing between channels broadcast at various definitions. The Reon chips, strong amp sections, and Audyssey features really made me seriously consider these. Reviews raved about the sound quality as well. However, I just couldn’t justify to myself, based on my current use and system set-up spending the additional money on these. Combine that with the reported long (5 seconds or more) switching times when channel surfing was enough to rule them out.

Pioneer:
All eliminated due to lack of dynamic volume control. I know this probably seems like a poor reason to eliminate these to many, however when you have others in the house that you need to consider, it can make the difference between using the system and not using the system. Pioneer has Auto Level Control that is supposed to do basically the same thing, however I didn’t see very many positive reviews on that feature. I did see numerous positive reviews on the Audyssey dynamic volume control / dynamic EQ combination. Most of the 2009 and 2010 Denon’s and Onkyo’s have these. Additionally, the Pioneer does not have an on-screen volume display over HDMI. This was a tough decision as the Pioneer’s seem to get great reviews for the sound quality and the 9040 and up all use the ABT chips for video.

Yamaha – all eliminated for similar reasons as the Pioneer line, though they seem to not get as strong of reviews in the lower end models as the others for sound too.

I was very tempted to spend more and upgrade to get even more features such as: high powered amp section, pre-outs for all channels, THX certification, USB (I Pod capable), Ethernet or Wi-Fi connectivity, more Audyssey features, etc. However, I don’t NEED any of those things. The higher powered amp and pre-outs were really high on the list and almost caused me to spend the extra $300 or so to get the 3310. Realistically I have neither the speakers nor room that demands it nor will I frequently listen to it loud enough to notice. I will save the several hundred dollars or more that all of those features would have cost me (to get all of those plus the features already listed above as more important to me) in one receiver. When I get serious about a high end set-up down the road, more of those things will be important to me, especially a higher powered amp section and / or the pre-outs. However, that is going to be a long while and by that time technology will have moved on and yet other features will be important. At that time, I will be shopping for something more along the lines of an updated version of the Denon 5308. In any case the receiver I buy today I don’t plan on using in that set-up.

I hope this helps someone out. When the 2310 arrives, I will post again to say if I am satisfied with my choice or not.
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post #3755 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 05:09 AM
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Here's another tip that folks often forget .. it's not the AVR that makes the difference as much as the quality of the speakers. If you've got <=$1000 invested in speakers, and don't need a specific feature of the 2310 (eg GUI), the 1910 or 1610 are just as good choices. When deciding on which of these models to select, you're much better served with the lowest level AVR that meets your requirements and using the savings on upgrading speakers or sub.

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post #3756 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

here's another tip that folks often forget .. It's not the avr that makes the difference as much as the quality of the speakers. If you've got <=$1000 invested in speakers, and don't need a specific feature of the 2310 (eg gui), the 1910 or 1610 are just as good choices. When deciding on which of these models to select, you're much better served with the lowest level avr that meets your requirements and using the savings on upgrading speakers or sub.

+1!

Former USSB uplink operator.
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post #3757 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 06:11 AM
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I will freely admit I have no tech knowledge but did get the denon yesterday and did try hooking it up and am having problems.
I have the hdmi 1 for dvr
hdmi 2 set for my oppo
TV is plugged into tv monitor through hdmi
I see nothing for cbl/TV on the denon listed.

I do get picture on and sound but when I turn on tv it said TV ext in then I have to press dvr.
when I press dvd nothing happens it goes to hdmi2 but nothing comes on the screen and the oppo does not turn on.

I did run aud which was simple but everything else is somewhat confusing and I know it should not be but am having issues.

Help
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post #3758 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 07:05 AM
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Is it normal for the GUI overlay to change size depending on the resolution of the source video feed? I have i/p scaler set to analog and my Directv set to pass native res through.
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post #3759 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dale1812 View Post

I see nothing for cbl/TV on the denon listed.

Dale - have you read my setup guide? If not follow the link in my signature below, the #1 lesson to input setup is to ignore the labels. All of those inputs are assignable and so you are not stuck with the names that Denon chose.

Since your DVR is plugged into HDMI-1, just make sure HDMI-1 is assigned to the same you want to use in the INPUT ASSIGN matrix screen.

Quote:


I do get picture on and sound but when I turn on tv it said TV ext in then I have to press dvr.

Are you saying the input switched to "TV" without you doing anything? If so, it is actually caused by your TV trying to "control" your receiver through the HDMI connection (called HDMI-CEC). If you can turn off this feature in your TV (Anynet+ for Samsung, Viera Link for Panasonic, etc) it will stop that behavior.

Quote:


when I press dvd nothing happens it goes to hdmi2 but nothing comes on the screen and the oppo does not turn on.

the remote will not automatically turn on your Oppo for you. If you want that kind of "one touch" functionality you should look into a Harmony universal remote.

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post #3760 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsduke View Post

Is it normal for the GUI overlay to change size depending on the resolution of the source video feed? I have i/p scaler set to analog and my Directv set to pass native res through.

yes, this was observed way back earlier in the thread. I don't think it's "normal" per se but it's nothing to worry about

since the video GUI kind of "piggybacks" on the video signal, it can change depending on the signal. The behavior seems sort of unpredictable though and mostly (in my setup at least) tied to the cable box (always a potential for issues with HDMI). For example, if I'm sending 480i and having the Denon do horizontal stretch, the GUI will be stretched with the SD cable channel. On 1080i channels the GUI is larger (like it is zoomed in) then when I'm on 720p channnels!

does it happen with you only on the dtv box or on other sources too?

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post #3761 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 08:48 AM
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Hi

Will get my denon 2310 tomorrow, just bought new (4) monitor radius 90(plus HD225 as center) speakers....as sub I ordered a SVS SB12plus....got it today...room size is 35m2

will start to setup this coming days......in case ANYONE has some tips regarding setup PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPEAK....can use all tips out there(denon, sb12-plus)...is my first receiver, 5.1 setup...before I used a all in one solutions(5.1 incl dvd player etc.....pioneer ns-dv55

thanks
matthias
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post #3762 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


in case ANYONE has some tips regarding setup PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPEAK....can use all tips out there

matthias -- I got a whole website full of tips follow the link in my signature....

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post #3763 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 10:47 AM
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fantastic!
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post #3764 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, this was observed way back earlier in the thread. I don't think it's "normal" per se but it's nothing to worry about

since the video GUI kind of "piggybacks" on the video signal, it can change depending on the signal. The behavior seems sort of unpredictable though and mostly (in my setup at least) tied to the cable box (always a potential for issues with HDMI). For example, if I'm sending 480i and having the Denon do horizontal stretch, the GUI will be stretched with the SD cable channel. On 1080i channels the GUI is larger (like it is zoomed in) then when I'm on 720p channnels!

does it happen with you only on the dtv box or on other sources too?

Only noticed it on cable box, but it toggles 720/1080 depending on channel. I mess with BD and see if it does it too.
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post #3765 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 05:49 PM
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TO Batpig

First off thank you for your reply. When I came home tonight I decided to address some of the issues I was having with the Denon. First thing I found out was that I had my Harmony set up wrong so corrected that and the TV is working the way it should.

I was still having problems with the OPPO it would come on but no picture of sound. I checked to make sure I had it hooked up correctly and made sure it was assigned to the HDMI source I plugged it into. The Oppo was hooked into hdmi 3. Harmony was set up correctly at least I thought it was. What I found out was that the Harmony needed to go into HDMI 1 for the Oppo instead of Hdmi 3. Hdmi 1 is where the tv is hooked up to. Lo and behold and I am still not sure why but everything is working great. I did have everything hooked up correctly, I justed needed to tweek the Harmony and that was it....By the way the 890 has incredible sound especially after I ran Aud and used a SPL meter to balance the sound even in its best day my Yamaha never sounded so good. Once again thank you.
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post #3766 of 7224 Old 03-03-2010, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSNAKE View Post

Denon 2310ci vs. ?? and why I just ordered the 2310

[snip]

I hope this helps someone out. When the 2310 arrives, I will post again to say if I am satisfied with my choice or not.

Hey Snake, thanks for that writeup! Going through the same thing myself right now. Between the 2310 and the Onkyo 707.

I like the HDMI on the front of the Onkyo, no idea why Denon didn't think of that...

Anyway, look forward to your followup!
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post #3767 of 7224 Old 03-05-2010, 10:52 AM
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Sitting here at work staring at my 2310 box.
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post #3768 of 7224 Old 03-05-2010, 01:17 PM
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This is my first time posting to this thread so please forgive me if this topic has been discussed. Is there any way to re-run Audyssey? I ran Audyssey upon set up the other day and I guess I should have set up my speakers and sub first. After setting up Audyssey and saving I noticed the front speakers were set as "large." According to the Batpig guide they should have been set as small to make the sub do most of the work below 80hz. I am running Polk RTI A3's up front and I while they can handle frequencies down to 50hz, I don't want to have a useless sub. Any information on how to run Audyssey again (if possible) is appreciated. Thanks.
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post #3769 of 7224 Old 03-05-2010, 01:42 PM
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You can run AUTO SETUP as many times and as often as you choose. Simply select it from the AUTO SETUP menu. However, you don't need to run AUTO SETUP again if you simply want to change the speaker setting from LARGE to SMALL. Just go into the Manual Setup menu and make that change. Speaker settings LARGE/SMALL and any individual volume changes you might make do not impact the Audyssey filtering.

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post #3770 of 7224 Old 03-05-2010, 02:36 PM
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Just officially joined the ranks of the 2310ci owner's club. This is my first ever AVR, and cannot tell you guys how excited I am about that. Now I guess it's time for me to do my homework and check out batpig's wealth of information on setting this baby up.

I also have a question for batpig or jdsmoothie or anyone else knowledgeable on the matter:

1) Just how good is Audyssey at calibrating speaker levels/distance, etc? The only reason I am asking is b/c I was wondering if buying an SPL meter and using it in addition to Audyssey would just be a waste of money/time.
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post #3771 of 7224 Old 03-05-2010, 02:40 PM
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It's really that good. Save your $40 and apply it towards a Harmony remote.

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post #3772 of 7224 Old 03-05-2010, 04:18 PM
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Thank you jdsmoothie. I took your advice and it worked like a charm. To the previous poster, Audyssey is incredible. I had the worst time trying to calibrate my previous receiver and I was always adjusting everything. Audyssey works like a charm.
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post #3773 of 7224 Old 03-06-2010, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It doesn't matter whether the BDP or the 2310 does the decoding of the Dolby TrueHD audio track to PCM. When the BDP does it, the 2310 will display MULT CH IN and you won't get the "blue" HD Audio light. If you want the 2310 to do it, you would set your BDP to "bitstream" and then you will see Dolby TrueHD and the "blue" light.


How exactly do I set a Sony 460 to bitstream? There are several audio setting but I can't seem to get the Dobly TrueHD on the 2310.
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post #3774 of 7224 Old 03-06-2010, 09:14 AM
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Is there a Secondary Audio setting? If yes, set it to OFF and that should do the trick.

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post #3775 of 7224 Old 03-06-2010, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Is there a Secondary Audio setting? If yes, set it to OFF and that should do the trick.

Ok I found it. Changed BD Audio Setting from Mix to Direct. Don't know why I care, but blue lights are cool.
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post #3776 of 7224 Old 03-06-2010, 09:31 AM
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Some actually find it too bright in a dimly lit room. Glad it works for you though. Enjoy!

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post #3777 of 7224 Old 03-07-2010, 05:39 AM
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I recently purchased the AVR-2310 and am quite happy with it - but when I added the ASD-3N I've had lots of problems playing music through it. Thinking a firmware update might solve the problem, I've spent hours trying to get the firmware update process to work. The dock setup in the 2310 GUI indicates a firmware update is available but after I start the process - it never finishes. The first time I tried - the 2310 reported a firmware update was in process - but for the last couple times, no message on the front of the receiver. Internet access is ok - I can stream Internet radio.
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post #3778 of 7224 Old 03-07-2010, 05:55 AM
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If you don't already have it, you may want to review the Denon ASD-3N firmware update instructions here.

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post #3779 of 7224 Old 03-07-2010, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you don't already have it, you may want to review the Denon ASD-3N firmware update instructions.

That's the way I tried to install the update. The GUI goes blank - then nothing. I've let it go 8-10 hours without any joy. I've reset both the dock and the 2310 (losing all my settings for the receiver )

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post #3780 of 7224 Old 03-07-2010, 08:05 AM
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It doesn't appear that the ASD-3N needs to be connected to the 2310 while doing the update. Try disconnecting it from the 2310 while doing the update. If still no joy, then you may need to replace the ASD-3N from the vendor.

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** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
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