*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The "clock jitter reducer" is also on USA models, check the product sheet for the 3310ci.

I did and it's not specifically listed which is why I asked the question where he saw it.

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Old 08-02-2009, 07:38 AM
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Morning all. Question about bi-amping:

Glutton for punishment that I am I was reading through the 2310 Owners manual last night. If I'm reading it properly the only way to bi-amp the front speakers is to sacrifice a surround channel. [Page 13 in the English section.] Not really interested in giving up my surrounds.....

Is this really true or have I gotten it wrong? My ancient DRA 775 provided a second set of physical connections for bi-amping.

Is there something I'm missing? Perhaps another way of wiring? Or is bi-amping of such little significance these days that it doesn't matter anymore.
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:45 AM
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It's the "REAR" surrounds (ie 7.1 setup) you would give up and most would agree that bi-amping with the AVR alone (ie no external amp) would not be of any real benefit as both channels are coming from the same power supply.

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Old 08-02-2009, 08:26 AM
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Active biamping, where the signal is split in an electronic crossover and then sent to separate power amps and speakers, is a valid technique commonly seen in professional sound reenforcment.

Passive biamping in a residential setting setting has a couple problems. First, even if there are two sets of terminals on each speaker, that's no guarantee each set is wired to the separate part of the crossover net that goes to each driver -- in many cases I've seen both are wired to the same common point on the internal xo net, which is the set up for biwiring but not biamping.
Contact your speaker mfgr and ask about biamping your specific model.

There's a practical reason why biamping won't gain most folks (you folks with expensive equipment who know what you are doing electrically know who you are) much benefit. A typical residential tweeter consumes so little power that you'd have to be really limited on available power, like say under 40 watts per channel, before separating the tweeter signal from the woofer signal would make much sense.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:01 AM
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Thank you JDSmoothie and GGunnell now that I think about it that makes sense.

For what it's worth I was thinking about this for down the road for when I might be given a set of 4 Ohm speakers. But then again if the receiver doesn't drive them I can add a separate amp setup. [I'm upgrading to a 3310 in a week or so. I note the 2310 doesn't have pre outs.]

Thanks again. I suppose if I ever get to that point I'll need to become one of those people who - know what they're doing electrically. Not there yet but I'm learning......
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I did and it's not specifically listed which is why I asked the question where he saw it.

I am looking at the USA model product sheet:
http://usa.denon.com/AVR-3310CI_Lit629.pdf

I see "Clock jitter reducer available for all digital inputs" listed in "key features" on page one of the product sheet and then discussed again on pg 2 on the left.


Vince - AL24 is an upsampling process for PCM signals intended for higher quality 2ch music listening. It upsamples the "word length" of PCM signals to 24bit before the d/a conversion, supposedly providing a more "detailed" or "transparent" sound.

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Old 08-02-2009, 10:53 AM
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I figured that this thread is due for a pic.

I have had my AVR-2310CI for just over 3 weeks now and I am very happy. It is part of a new setup that also includes:

Panasonic TC-P54V10
Motorola DCT-3416
Sony PS3
3x B&W LCR600 S3
B&W ASWCM Sub
Custom cabinet cooling
LL
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I am looking at the USA model product sheet:
http://usa.denon.com/AVR-3310CI_Lit629.pdf

Ah ... THAT product sheet ... the OP had pointed to the UK "spec" page so I just looked at the US spec page which it's not listed on. Got the two confused when you said "product" sheet. Although, looking at the 2310 "product" sheet, it doesn't list it.

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Old 08-02-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryRanson View Post

I figured that this thread is due for a pic.

I have had my AVR-2310CI for just over 3 weeks now and I am very happy. It is part of a new setup that also includes:

Panasonic TC-P54V10
Motorola DCT-3416
Sony PS3
3x B&W LCR600 S3
B&W ASWCM Sub
Custom cabinet cooling

Gary, very clean setup. Do you turn the video processor on for your cable source? Have you noticed improvements in pq with the abt2010 chip? I have last years Panny 50PZ800u (click on my signature for a pic of the setup), I keep the scaler and vp turned on for my cable source and it does seem to improve the pic, so just curious.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:43 PM
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niknagPZ,

Thank you.

I have not had time yet to do any tweaking and to date have only run the Audyssey auto setup.

Thanks for the tip and I'll be sure to try out the VP to see the improvement.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:19 PM
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What is the best resolution output setting for my cable box (Motorola DCT-3416)? It cannot be set to pass-through the original resolution.

1080I?
I'm concerned about these problems:
- The presumably inferior video processor in the motorola cable box will be upscaling an originally 720p picture to 1080i.
- And there seem to be questions as to if the ABT-2010 video processor in the denon can "deinterlace" (cause 1080i is not interlaced) or will process at all a 1080i signal.
- So if the original signal is 720p will I have a sub-optimal picture?

Or 720P?
These are my concerns:
- The presumably inferior video processor in the motorola cable box will be down-scaling a native 1080I picture to 720p.
- Will the ABT-2010 video processor in the denon be able to deinterlace the 720p picture to it's original 1080i?
- So if the original signal is 1080i will I have a sub-optimal picture?

or 480p?
- This may not be an option as I believe that the motorola cable box will then output a 4:3 aspect ratio picture.

Any thoughts all of you wise ones out there?
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:07 AM
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I hope this is on point, but the 989 is now selling on Amazon.com for $549 shipped! I don't know how long it is going to stay at that price, but it looked like quite a sweet deal so I thought I should give you the heads up... I've posted this also on the 2809/989 thread to get the word around quickly given my uncertainty about how long the sale will last. And yes, I pulled the trigger on one... I just couldn't help myself... Wifey might kill me when she finds out, but I'm ready to take the heat

I also had to act quickly to save myself from agonizing too much over the choice between the 989 and the 2310 which has been tempting me only because of the new sexy GUI... I still love the GUI on the 2310, but I couldn't beat this price, so 989 it is, and I'm at peace!
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the tip! the same thing happened last year when they started clearing out AVR 988 models for around the same price. This is a good time to jump for those who have been on the fence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

I pulled the trigger on one... I just couldn't help myself... Wifey might kill me when she finds out, but I'm ready to take the heat

the slogan of AVS is "forgiveness is easier to get than permission"!

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Old 08-03-2009, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmb View Post

What is the best resolution output setting for my cable box (Motorola DCT-3416)? It cannot be set to pass-through the original resolution.

as you have figured out, there are compromises with any setting. Obviously you don't want to output 480!! as you would be downscaling all of your HD channels!

With 720p output your 1080i channels may suffer.... and with 1080i output your 720p channels may suffer.

However, in my experience the differences are fairly minute btwn 720p and 1080i output from a cable box. The bottom line is there is no concrete answer here! It is going to be highly dependent on YOUR specific setup.

So, you should set the Denon to scale up to the max rez your TV accepts (e.g. leave it on "auto" for resolution on the i/p scaler) and then just switch your cable box between 720p and 1080i output and test it yourself. Pick the one that looks better; if you can't tell the difference (which is what I would bet will happen), just leave it on 1080i and call it a day.

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Old 08-03-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

I hope this is on point, but the 989 is now selling on Amazon.com for $549 shipped! I don't know how long it is going to stay at that price, but it looked like quite a sweet deal so I thought I should give you the heads up...

Oh man, I just picked up the 890 and it's still sitting in the box, and I'm wondering if I should now go for the 989 instead. Decision decisions!!!

The big pluses for the 989 is:
- potentially better sound (better amp, AL24, and Audyssey XT)
- looks way better (like the front panel which hides the controls)

Minuses
- No sexy GUI.

I don't care about PLIIz, but the other features are really nice and I would save at least $100 over what I paid for the 890. The ABT is kind of a bonus but I doubt I would see any difference (I'm coming from an Onkyo with the Reon)

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Old 08-03-2009, 01:50 PM
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i have $60 left on my amazon gc - dang, i was set on the 2310 but is this just as good? I could be upgrading my 10 yr old denon for $490. the only option in the 2310CI i would want, I guess, is the ABT processing chip for better picture?

but is it worth it for another $150? (amazon lists the denon 2310 for $700 - $60 gc)

why do i make my life so complicated?
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:17 PM
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I just saw that the 2310 dropped from $849 to $700 today at Amazon and OneCall.

What's the bottom line on the 2310? Is it a good model? I haven't seen reviews of it yet since it's so new.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc3 View Post

i have $60 left on my amazon gc - dang, i was set on the 2310 but is this just as good?

It's better in audio quality, but the 2310 may be better in video quality.

Build quality the 989 is better

The 2310 has nicer on-screen menus and displays

The 989 has more flexibility in inputs and outputs (preamp output, + more standard def inputs)

For the price difference, the 989 is a superb buy

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Old 08-03-2009, 04:03 PM
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Hi Batpig,

I am new to the forum. May I say wow and thanks for the info that you post. I have just orderd a Denon 2310ci. My question is, would I be able to get the new sound formats from my PS3 Bluray player even though my Sony LCD TV, manufacturers date 2004, is only DVI with one input?

I really like this receiver but worried!

Thanks.


Keith
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:05 PM
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Hi All,

Newbie here! This a really good forum. Thanks in advance for future answers.

KeithOz
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post


The big pluses for the 989 is:
- potentially better sound (better amp, AL24, and Audyssey XT)
- looks way better (like the front panel which hides the controls)

Don't forget the pre-outs on all 7 channels, for those who need them.

This 2310/890 vs 989 choice could be difficult for those who value the ABT processing, the GUI, and the one extra HDMI input of the 2310 over the potentially higher SQ/power and pre-outs of the 989, and do not consider the additional $151 (for the 2310) to be an issue. Ultimately, it will have to come down to personal preferences as it usually does...

In my personal case, I figured I'm already getting good enough scaling from my Panny BD55, my Toshiba HD XA2 (Reon), and my Panny 1080p plasma so the ABT scaling wasn't really necessary (I haven't really verified that, but I hope I'm not wrong about it). That leaves the GUI on the 2310 which I decided I could easily live without... so the choice of the 989 at this price was a no-brainer....

The bottom line is that one cannot really go *very wrong* with either of these machines so it should be relatively easy at this time to end the torment of any fence-sitting and roll the dice!
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

It's better in audio quality, but the 2310 may be better in video quality.

Build quality the 989 is better

The 2310 has nicer on-screen menus and displays

The 989 has more flexibility in inputs and outputs (preamp output, + more standard def inputs)

For the price difference, the 989 is a superb buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Don't forget the pre-outs on all 7 channels, for those who need them.

This 2310/890 vs 989 choice could be difficult for those who value the ABT processing, the GUI, and the one extra HDMI input of the 2310 over the potentially higher SQ/power and pre-outs of the 989, and do not consider the additional $151 (for the 2310) to be an issue. Ultimately, it will have to come down to personal preferences as it usually does...

In my personal case, I figured I'm already getting good enough scaling from my Panny BD55, my Toshiba HD XA2 (Reon), and my Panny 1080p plasma so the ABT scaling wasn't really necessary (I haven't really verified that, but I hope I'm not wrong about it). That leaves the GUI on the 2310 which I decided I could easily live without... so the choice of the 989 at this price was a no-brainer....

The bottom line is that one cannot really go *very wrong* with either of these machines so it should be relatively easy at this time to end the torment of any fence-sitting and roll the dice!

of all the things listed, the ONLY thing is the ABT chip. i will pretty much only use the AVR for tv and movies and the occassional cd so I am looking for the best possible picture quality for standard def and high def viewing.

aside from tv viewing, if i buy the oppo bdp-83, then I guess i could let that handle the video for blue rays and dvds since it has an ABT chip, right?
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc3 View Post

of all the things listed, the ONLY thing is the ABT chip. i will pretty much only use the AVR for tv and movies and the occassional cd so I am looking for the best possible picture quality for standard def and high def viewing.

aside from tv viewing, if i buy the oppo bdp-83, then I guess i could let that handle the video for blue rays and dvds since it has an ABT chip, right?

Sounds right to me!
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithOz View Post

Hi Batpig,

I am new to the forum. May I say wow and thanks for the info that you post. I have just orderd a Denon 2310ci. My question is, would I be able to get the new sound formats from my PS3 Bluray player even though my Sony LCD TV, manufacturers date 2004, is only DVI with one input?

I really like this receiver but worried!

Thanks.


Keith

Which TV model do you have? The important thing is that your TV has DVI with HDCP.

Do you use the HDMI output of your PS3 right now? If so, then you are all set.

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Old 08-03-2009, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Don't forget the pre-outs on all 7 channels, for those who need them.

This 2310/890 vs 989 choice could be difficult for those who value the ABT processing, the GUI, and the one extra HDMI input of the 2310 over the potentially higher SQ/power and pre-outs of the 989, and do not consider the additional $151 (for the 2310) to be an issue. Ultimately, it will have to come down to personal preferences as it usually does...

In my personal case, I figured I'm already getting good enough scaling from my Panny BD55, my Toshiba HD XA2 (Reon), and my Panny 1080p plasma so the ABT scaling wasn't really necessary (I haven't really verified that, but I hope I'm not wrong about it). That leaves the GUI on the 2310 which I decided I could easily live without... so the choice of the 989 at this price was a no-brainer....

The bottom line is that one cannot really go *very wrong* with either of these machines so it should be relatively easy at this time to end the torment of any fence-sitting and roll the dice!

Totally agree. The ABT is not that important to me, but I really like the idea of GUI over the HDMI. I have an Onkyo and due to handshaking issues, I had to bypass the receiver, and I am finding I miss the volume indicators over HDMI since I can't see the front display volume number from my seat.

If I lived in the US and I was able to get the 989 shipped to my door, I'd take the $150 savings easily and get the 989. I can still get the 989 but it's a hassle, so the 890 makes the most sense to me.

In theory the preamp outputs can be a useful for an upgrade path but I've never taken advantage of it.

Audyssey XT does a great job and I wonder if I'm downgrading by going with the 890 that doesn't have XT

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Old 08-03-2009, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I think, for people trying to decide between 2310/890 and last year's 2809/989, you need to be honest with yourself about how "critical" of a listener you are and, especially, how loud you like to listen.

If you mostly listen at moderate volumes, aren't a hyper-critical 2-ch music guy, and have moderately priced speakers, the SQ difference between the two is probably negligible.

The advantages of the 989 are going to show up if (1) you listen at BIG volumes, where amp headroom (and/or the ability to upgrade with external amps) will allow for cleaner sound and (2) tricky rooms, where the extra resolution of MultEQ XT will do a better job corrected for bass anomolies and other issues.

For example, if you are running a dedicated theater room where you are cranking it to near-reference volumes, or like to blast classical music SACD's to feel like you are IN the symphony hall, the 989 becomes the obvious choice. But if you just have your typical living-room-cum-HT setup, you don't listen to a lot of high-volume music, and 90% of the time you will be watching TV or maybe watching movies below the "wife will yell at me" volume threshold, the 2310/890 will sound basically identical and you may not need the extra guts of the 989 model, and the usability improvements of the GUI overlay may be more important to your day-to-day life.

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Old 08-03-2009, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

Which TV model do you have? The important thing is that your TV has DVI with HDCP.

Do you use the HDMI output of your PS3 right now? If so, then you are all set.

Hi warpdrive, Thanks. My tv is a Sony Grand WEGA KF-50WE610. I am using my PS3 via an HDMI hooked to the tv using a DVI adaptor. For sound I'm using a Denon AVR1802 via Toslink. If it is HDCP would I be able to use just one cable to the tv from the 2310ci to get HD sound from Blu-ray and other displays like, HD from my cable box??
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:09 PM
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Hi Arc3, Buy it from 6thave.com $580 incl. (Denon 2310ci)
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:44 PM
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KeithOz,

You mean 6ave.com, right? Is there a coupon code for that price? The previous 6ave.com coupon code that took off 25% (aflden636) is no longer valid.

Thanks.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithOz View Post

Hi warpdrive, Thanks. My tv is a Sony Grand WEGA KF-50WE610. I am using my PS3 via an HDMI hooked to the tv using a DVI adaptor. For sound I'm using a Denon AVR1802 via Toslink. If it is HDCP would I be able to use just one cable to the tv from the 2310ci to get HD sound from Blu-ray and other displays like, HD from my cable box??

Message sent via PM. Yes, I think you'll be fine.

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