*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

Word is, Sony is supposed to unlock bitstreaming over optical in the next major update. However you would still need an amplifier that could decode the streams.

Yeehah! Gonna get me some lights!(as in batpigs guide!) That is if I that comes through.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:36 PM
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I don't think the older PS3's have the hardware to make this happen, or so they said when it was released.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

In the end, the value of the ABT is the volume overlay. It's kind of an expensive way to get that feature!


Yeah, I'll probably end up picking up this receiver after prices come down (I haven't been able to find it for <$600 as other seem to have) simply to get volume overlay.

I have to say I think it's pretty ridiculous that you have to pay this kind of money to get such a basic feature, and as far as I know, this is the cheapest unit that offers it.

I also find it hard to believe that after how many years of having 16x9 and 4x3 material out there they still haven't been able to implement aspect ratio correction properly.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the problem is that in the modern HDMI universe, with high resolution signals passing through the receiver, the video processing involved to overlay graphics on TOP of a 1080p image without degrading the PQ of the signal is non-trivial. It seems like "basic" functionality but I don't think it's as easy as it sounds. We are just now getting to the point where HDMI video processing is starting to become standard in mid-level AVR's.

Anyway, even if you don't use the scaling, it's not JUST the volume overlay, in my opinion having the GUI overlay is pretty handy as well and really streamlines functionality. I do a lot of tweaking in the menus and it annoys me (on my AVR 789) to have to wait for the screen to blank out and the menus to appear, it's a very clunky interface.

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Old 08-13-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Anyway, even if you don't use the scaling, it's not JUST the volume overlay, in my opinion having the GUI overlay is pretty handy as well and really streamlines functionality. I do a lot of tweaking in the menus and it annoys me (on my AVR 789) to have to wait for the screen to blank out and the menus to appear, it's a very clunky interface.

That's a good point. I guess when you have the feature, it's easy to forget how it would be without it. It would drive me nuts if I have to put up with the screen blanking out, so I do appreciate the overlay GUI so much more.

I totally agree that this is the kind of feature that you think is simple, but it actually involves a lot of processing power. But it's unfortunate that the ABT VRS and all its goodness is kind of wasted for me because I'm not using its power to its fullest.

All in all, I'm very happy I bought the Denon. My Onkyo before heated the room, so it's refreshing that the Denon runs so cool in comparison.

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Old 08-13-2009, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Welcome Bongo -- my first question is, why do you have TWO Blu-Ray players and also an upconverting DVD player? I guess maybe you use the 2910 as a "universal" player for SACD or something, but two BDP's?

I would have to imagine one of the two BDP's does a better job with SD DVD playback than the old 2910. And, even if they don't, the AVR 2310CI itself should be the best SD DVD upscaler you have.

Anyway..... to your issues....

On the Denon, there aren't really any settings that would affect HDMI switching, assuming you have assigned your inputs correctly. It sounds like you are having some weird "handshake" failures with some of your devices. I would try things like swapping HDMI cables, swapping HDMI inputs (e.g. try the 2910 in HDMI-2 instead of HDMI-4 or whatever), and also check the Sammy BDP's settings and see if there are any "HDMI-CEC" or other such features that you can turn off.

Also, try turning off "HDMI Control" on the Denon just in case.

Another thing to try on the input assignment front -- for certain inputs the Denon may default to multiple connections assigned to that "name". For example, by default the "DVD" name is assigned to both "HDMI-1" and "COMP-1" video inputs. Try going into the input assignment screen and setting your HDMI inputs to "NONE" for everything else but HDMI.

Batpig thanks for your answer. Indeed I use the 2910 as a SACD player. Initially I had the Sammy BR connected, but due to the Odd Behavior, I also connected the Sony BR, this explains the apparent "eccentric" setup.
Anyway, swapping the cables is one the first thing I did, with no result.
Then I tried every source in each input with the following result:
Direct TV: works fine on all 5 HDMI inputs
Sony BR: works fine on all 5 HDMI inputs
Sammy BR: works oddly on HDMI 1 & 2, but fine on HDMI 3,4 & 5
Denon 2910: It does not work in any input.
HDMI control is "OFF".
The Sammy has very little control on HDMI, basically one option (TV) as the other one (Monitor) is grayed out.

Go figure!!!
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think the problem is that in the modern HDMI universe, with high resolution signals passing through the receiver, the video processing involved to overlay graphics on TOP of a 1080p image without degrading the PQ of the signal is non-trivial. It seems like "basic" functionality but I don't think it's as easy as it sounds. We are just now getting to the point where HDMI video processing is starting to become standard in mid-level AVR's.

excellent point!!

hdmi is definitely different than the old yellow rca cable no doubt about that.
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jreth View Post

I have a question regarding low volume levels.
I've had my 2310 for about a week now. I've ran the Audessey auto setup 3 times now and while it sounds very good. I just don't think I'm getting the volume levels I should be. Most action movies I watch are set at -5. While it's fairly loud it just isn't overpowering.

This goes for my Dish DVR (VIP 722), PS3 and regular FM stereo listening. My Dish box and PS3 are connected via HDMI.

With the receiver that I replaced (RX-V640) I couldn't get past -10 without the windows and walls shaking.

For speakers I have B/W 602 S3 up front B/W center and infinity RS2's for back surround. Not the best, but certainly not the worst speakers either.

BTW Dynamic Volume is OFF

i just found this on the engadget forum which directed me to this quote on the ps forum.. this maybe what i was experiencing.

"Note: To playback sound recorded on your DVD/software in Dolby Digital (AC-3) or DTS format to reproduce the effect of listening in a movie theater or concert hall, you must connect to audio equipment with the ability to decode DTS or Dolby Digital sound (sold separately). You must connect the component via the DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) connector using an optical digital cable (sold separately)."

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/04/21...with-your-ps3/

under this discussion they also had a link to this:

http://playstation.custhelp.com/cgi-...i=&p_topview=1


i wanted to get a non-ps3 bluray player and connect it to my denon, but i never did.. i wish i would have now. if not anything but to do a good comparison.

i dont want to get off topic on the lpcm vs bitstream argument, but since you did post that you had a ps3 connected to your receiver i thought i would post this info.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I have no idea what that quote you posted has to do with his "problem" which BTW we determined wasn't really a problem. Are you implying that the PS3 doesn't have DD/DTS decoders? Or are you just saying that there could be a setting on the PS3 (e.g. dyn. range control) which is lowering the volume output?

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Old 08-14-2009, 12:22 PM
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Is there any way to make the volume control more sensitive? Can I somehow make it change, say 1 db at a time instead of 0.5? I feel like I have to hold down the volume button a little too long to start hearing results. Is there anything I can tweak in my Harmony settings to accomplish the same thing?
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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no, there is no way to do that -- it works on a "pressure sensitive" system so if you do single taps it changes it by only 0.5dB (for fine adjustment) and if you hold it down for a second it goes much faster (for gross adjustment). It's a "touch and feel" system, you need to get used to holding it down for 1-2 sec to get in the ballpark, and then tap-tap-tap to make a fine adjustment once you are close.

you can change the number of "repeats" in the Harmony software but it could screw up other stuff, as it will apply to all IR commands for the device (e.g. you still want to be able to adjust your channel levels in 0.5dB increments).

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Old 08-14-2009, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I have no idea what that quote you posted has to do with his "problem" which BTW we determined wasn't really a problem. Are you implying that the PS3 doesn't have DD/DTS decoders? Or are you just saying that there could be a setting on the PS3 (e.g. dyn. range control) which is lowering the volume output?

the link i posted addressed the volume from the ps3 being low and not quite as dynamic (loud) when it is connected via hdmi using lpcm as opposed to being connected via optical cable.. the quote from the ps3 forum directly attributed that to the lpcm via hdmi versus the bitstream via optical..

he posted in pretty clear words (or what i thought was clear) a volume issue when using the ps3 on the denon receiver and the link i posted addressed it pretty clearly as well.. at least i thought it was clear...

remember i had the 1910 that i took back because i 'felt' the same as he did about the low volume.. i did not think to attribute it to the pcm v. bitstream issue..

it could also be due to that weird volume knob on the denons.. it seems like you have to turn it forever to get sound from it... which i know to some it sounds goofy but to me it was an annoying issue..
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I have no idea what that quote you posted has to do with his "problem" which BTW we determined wasn't really a problem.

+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv47lg70 View Post

he posted in pretty clear words (or what i thought was clear) a volume issue when using the ps3 on the denon receiver and the link i posted addressed it pretty clearly as well.. at least i thought it was clear...

We must be reading different posts, as the only thing I read in there was that if you want to listen to the HD codecs on the PS3 you have to set it to LPCM and use an HDMI cable.

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Old 08-15-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

+1



We must be reading different posts, as the only thing I read in there was that if you want to listen to the HD codecs on the PS3 you have to set it to LPCM and use an HDMI cable.

god bless.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:09 AM
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Hi, My speakers are, front L/R Polk RT600i, Center Polk CS245i, Rear Two Polk RT10's and the sub is a Polk PSW 350. SW Mode is LFE. The crossover is, Front 60hz, Center 40hz and Surround 80hz. My questions is, am I better off setting them all to 80hz? Especially for deep bass.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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yes! you would be sending more of the deep bass to the subwoofer, which seems like it could only help deep bass, right? Unless you have REALLY awesome speakers I probably wouldn't ever use a crossover below 80Hz. MAYBE 60Hz for certain tower speakers.

I'll also be honest: if you REALLY want to improve the deep bass, upgrade your subwoofer. The PSW's are really mediocre subs and cannot actually play "deep" bass. Check out the specs page. Polk claims the -3dB point is 38Hz! That means it is already rolling off well above 40Hz.... if your speakers are crossed over at 40 or 60 the sub is almost doing nothing. They claim "overall frequency response" down to 25Hz but it is obviously rolling off very steeply below 40Hz and is not going to have much output.

Buttt..... anyway, for the time being, YES, raise the crossovers to 80Hz so at least the Polk can have some room to operate.

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Old 08-15-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes! you would be sending more of the deep bass to the subwoofer, which seems like it could only help deep bass, right? Unless you have REALLY awesome speakers I probably wouldn't ever use a crossover below 80Hz. MAYBE 60Hz for certain tower speakers.

I'll also be honest: if you REALLY want to improve the deep bass, upgrade your subwoofer. The PSW's are really mediocre subs and cannot actually play "deep" bass. Check out the specs page. Polk claims the -3dB point is 38Hz! That means it is already rolling off well above 40Hz.... if your speakers are crossed over at 40 or 60 the sub is almost doing nothing. They claim "overall frequency response" down to 25Hz but it is obviously rolling off very steeply below 40Hz and is not going to have much output.

Buttt..... anyway, for the time being, YES, raise the crossovers to 80Hz so at least the Polk can have some room to operate.

Thanks batpig. Not sure if what you said still stands, I forgot to mention that the fronts are floor standers. Two Polk RT600i. As always, much appreciated.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:07 PM
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New to forum: First thing i noticed about the 2310 after hooking it up was how better the sound is. My 805 is on it's way to Onkyo for a second repair and i wanted a Denon with newer features. The GUI helped more than an earlier model which, at the time, required a call to tech support. Channel separation ,imaging and a less harsh sound through Klipsch speakers (which i know are bright) are satisfying. Main speakers SP 1s 8" powered subwoofers center SC-5 and in the back HSU VT-F2. Surrounds advents and two back channel Onkyo's.I plan on changing the previous four speakers. The Audyssey to my surprise configured all three subwoofers and the other speakers without problems. My new display 73" . Connected a 12 foot hdmi from comcast-motorola box to the 2310 along with 3 dvd players to the Denon. Sometimes the picture will go off the screen and the tvs" adding a new component" will come on. I think this receiver is a very good one.
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

You are probably running into differences in reference level calibration

To understand reference level (see partway down the page):
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-1.html

Basically reference level is the sound pressure level that sound technicians target their mix for.

Now Denon + Audyssey I believe uses 0dB on the volume dial as reference level, so if you play back at 0, you are experiencing reference level. Most people watch their movies at -15 to -5 relative to reference level

I believe that Yamaha targets -10dB (at least it did when I used to have their receiver), so if that is still the case, then -10dB on a Yamaha would be equivalent to 0dB on the Denon (for the other poster)

Maybe others can correct me, but I think that would explain the difference in levels. You can certainly verify for yourself if 0dB is reference by using one of the test discs available.

The bottom line is that you should NOT find that -5dB to be overly loud, the system adjusts the speakers so that 0dB is outputting a consistent level of sound. If you moved your system to a much larger room and ran Audyssey again, you will hear the exact same loudness.

This is really interesting! Thanks warpdrive.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-1.html
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:22 PM
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When I press Status a few times it shows, "Dial. Normal offfset -4 db". I have everything set to zero.

It doesn't seem to be controllable and only flashes on the display for a second or 2. Doesn't matter if Audessey is enabled or not.

And it seems to be a different number for different sources.

So what is it please?
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:13 AM
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I was about to quote the Owner's Manual page that you could find more information on the Dolby Digital Dialog Normalization offset, however, it seems that Denon has removed the paragraph displayed in previous years manuals and now only lists the following on p. 53:

Status - Audio Input Signal - Offset - The dialog normalization correction value is displayed

This certainly doesn't tell you much. The paragraph previously displayed:

This is automatically activated when playing Dolby Digital sources. This function automatically corrects the standard signal level for individual program sources. The figure displayed (eg. -4db) is the correction value when the standard level is corrected.

You can get more info by googling "dialog normalization", however, the value can go as high as -30db, although personally I've never seen it go higher than -10db.

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Old 08-16-2009, 09:35 AM
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Cool, I thiought it was something I set up wrong, thanks jdsmoothie. Is there anyway I can set the input sound to come on always, for example in Dolby Digital, 5.1, as long as the DVD has it? Like last nite, I watched a movie with head phones on and in "Virtual Surrround Sound" mode. When it had finished, I took out the headphones and turned the receiver off. This morning my son watched a DVD, when it was turned on it went to "Virtual Surround" as that was the last sound mode used. Or would I have to just try and remember to change it to 5.1/pro logic each time. Just makes it easier for the wife.
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:36 AM
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You would have to remember to set it back to STANDARD mode otherwise the last surround mode it remembers is the DSP VIRTUAL. You could set up a Quick Select button for your headphone use or use a Harmony remote to change it as well.

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Old 08-16-2009, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithOz View Post

I watched a movie with head phones on and in "Virtual Surrround Sound" mode.

Curious though ... can you really notice a difference between VIRTUAL and STANDARD using your headphones?

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Old 08-17-2009, 04:55 AM
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This was our original 5.1 set up:

Receiver Onkyo TX-DS797
Front Speakers: Bose Acoustimas 5 Series II
Center: Bose VCS-10
Surrounds: Advent Bookshelf
Sub: Velodyne CHT-10

With this setup we enjoyed playing music, TV and loud DVD movies, watching on our Pani TH50PZ700U. We bought a Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player which was attached to our Pani via HDMI connection. Although the picture quality was stunning, we wondered what we were missing sound wise with Blu-ray movies.

Then came the decision to go with a Denon AVR 2310 because of the good reviews on the AVS forum and the 5 HDMI inputs. We set up the Denon temporally on a TV tray (no heat problems) and after connecting the speakers, ran the Audyssey setup. Audyssey complained that the right front speaker was out of phase and then completed and stored the settings.

We have been have been very disappointed by continuos shutdowns (via the protection circuits of the receiver) when playing Blu-ray DVDs such as "Pearl Harbor" or "U571". This occurs with any explosion or other loud sound when the level is around -25dB. The movies play ok at -30dB, but at this level, the dialog is often hard to make out.

With music, TV, or CDs we get great sound and can easily get the level very loud (down to -8dB or so), but with DVD movies, the 2310 starts shutting down with the power indicator flashing rapidly several times a second., once the level gets to the mid -20s. It seems that volume-wise, our Pani's TV speakers can play movies louder than the 2310.

I called Denon with this problem and they suggested that there may be impedance or crossover problems with the Bose Acoustimas speakers. He said that Denon and Bose don't play well together. So we went to Bestbuy and had them play "U571" using their display receiver, a Denon AVR 2309CI, through a pair of Klipsch WB-14 speakers. I turned the level down to -10db and the sound was very loud and very clear. None of the explosions shut down their 2309. So we bought the WB-14s and replaced the Bose Acoustimas speakers. I re-ran Audyssey and stored the new settings but my 2310 went into "protection mode" and shut down when the volume got lower than -25db, playing "Pearl Harbor".

I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Do you think I have a defective 2310?
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:50 AM
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First off, setting up a demo with a different AVR and different speakers all together isn't going to tell you much about your current problem. The warning the 2310 is giving (ie. flashes every 1/2 sec) tells you that you either have a speaker wire problem (ie speaker wires touching other connectors in the back of the AVR or on the speakers themselves), or possibly you are using 4 ohm speakers driving the volume to loud. If you confirm that neither of these issues is present, then most likely, you do indeed have a defective 2310.

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Old 08-17-2009, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Curious though ... can you really notice a difference between VIRTUAL and STANDARD using your headphones?

Yes, you can. Of course never as good as a HT set up, pretty close though.
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:45 AM
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I have hooked up my Scientific Explorer 8300 HD cable box to the Denon via HDMI. I get picture but no sound?
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:13 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1108268

Do Denon use class A/B or class D amplifiers in AVR-2310?
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I have hooked up my Scientific Explorer 8300 HD cable box to the Denon via HDMI. I get picture but no sound?

Go to the settings of your cable box (sometimes you have to hit the "settings" button twice to get to the REAL settings) and set audio output to HDMI. See if you can find somewhere where you can change these audio output settings. Many cable boxes don't have this enabled by default.

Anyway, guaranteed it's a setting or functional issue with your CABLE BOX and not the Denon. If you can't find the setting you should give your cable company a call.

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