*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 221 - AVS Forum
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post #6601 of 7220 Old 01-23-2012, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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This is actually a known bug with the xx10 models and that Sony BDP (among others) but its bizarre that it never manifested until now. Has anything changed in your setup recently?

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post #6602 of 7220 Old 01-23-2012, 06:12 PM
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No nothing has changed. First noticed it 2 days ago when the wife went to watch sex and city movie and on DD True there was no sound but when switched to DD sound worked. After tried Half blood Prince and DD True worked and yesterday Wall-e DTS-Master worked but not today
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post #6603 of 7220 Old 01-23-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shady banjo View Post

Thanks for the quick reply.
I am using Sony S370 BD player.
Was watching Wall-e last night and sound was working.
Today go to watch the rest of it and no sound comes out. (Blue light is light up but no sound, Display says DTS-Master)
No I have not updated the firmware on the reciever. Has always worked before.
It just seems to HD codec that I get no sound from.

As noted in the post below, this is a known issue, although the work around is to simply set your BDP to PCM vice bitstream to pass the same HD audio quality. Although your 890 is likely out of warranty, Denon is actually updating the firmware at no cost due to recent HD audio issues with the Star Wars - The Complete Saga BD release. Check Denon's website to see if there is a local repair facility in your area so you don't have to pay shipping costs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17512496

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post #6604 of 7220 Old 01-23-2012, 06:45 PM
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OK Thanks guys I will try getting the AVR updated and let you know how it went.
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post #6605 of 7220 Old 01-24-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

really a personal preference thing, I use PLII Cinema for all 2ch movies and TV broadcasts, because I'd rather watch in 5.1, but some people dislike the "fake surround" and prefer to just watch them in native STEREO when the signal is 2ch.

I thought that I read somewhere that ambient sounds are naturally in the stereo recordings and the AVR processors are "smart" enough to discern the ambient sounds from the main sounds and route them to the appropriate speaker. Hence, no "fake surround" as I have always assumed. Can't remember the source but it would have been a link from AVS Forum.
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post #6606 of 7220 Old 01-24-2012, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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well, by "fake" I mean that the receiver is generating the extra channels. There are some "purists" out there who don't like the idea of receiver processing channels that aren't in the original audio input source.

what you speak of is the theory behind how a matrix processor like PLII Cinema can successfully accomplish the 2.0 > 5.1 upmix. Also, in theory, dialogue will be recorded perfectly in phase between the L/R stereo so it will be correctly extracted to the center channel.

like I said, I think it works fine.... but some people don't....

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post #6607 of 7220 Old 01-25-2012, 07:48 AM
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Any chance there's an option somewhere to turn off that stupid "Mute" display on the screen the entire time it's muted?
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post #6608 of 7220 Old 01-25-2012, 11:10 AM
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a couple of setup issues that I didn't have to consider until (helping a friend)

1.) if he goes with phantom center channel initially...are you still able to control the vol/gain of what would have been the center channel content or does the DENON split it across the left/right channels once you indicate you have no center speaker and that's you lose all control over it from that point forward ??


2.) he also has passive subwoofer...so running L/R speaker wires from receiver to SUB and then back to the speakers. I'm very curious to hear what impact this can have re audyssey evaulation during automated setup with the mic. Personally I think it has great potential to misinterpret and screw it up and I wonder whether it makes more sense to do setup without it and just add it back in afterwords...any impressions regarding this ??

also...these posts I just saw about Wall-E and Star Wars...is that a NEW firmware or just a recommendation to apply the earlier fix from 2010 ? (I think this same guy has Sony S370)

thanks all !!
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post #6609 of 7220 Old 01-25-2012, 11:58 AM
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^^
1. Nope ... no center ... then no center control.
2. The AVR is not designed to use with a "passive" sub. Suggest your friend purchase a powered sub and connect to the sub preout.
3. Reco to apply earlier fix from 2010.

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post #6610 of 7220 Old 01-25-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post

Any chance there's an option somewhere to turn off that stupid "Mute" display on the screen the entire time it's muted?

AFAIK, no, other than turning off all text display.

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post #6611 of 7220 Old 01-25-2012, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moolala View Post

2.) he also has passive subwoofer...so running L/R speaker wires from receiver to SUB and then back to the speakers. I'm very curious to hear what impact this can have re audyssey evaulation during automated setup with the mic. Personally I think it has great potential to misinterpret and screw it up and I wonder whether it makes more sense to do setup without it and just add it back in afterwords...any impressions regarding this ??

to add to JD's comments:

If a passive subwoofer is hooked up 'in-line' with the L/R speakers, then the receiver will not "know" that there is a separate subwoofer in play. It will simply "hear" the subwoofer as part of the L/R speakers, and then after Auto Setup it will be set to SW=NO and FR/FL = LARGE (full band). As JD noted, modern receivers are designed to work with powered subs as all the SW channel content is directed to the SW OUT pre-out RCA jack.

In terms of what impact it will have wrt Audyssey: in addition to the above (FR/FL will be set to "large" with no sub detected) you are essentially throwing out the powerful SW channel filtering, which is where the majority of Audyssey's processing power is devoted. The SW channel has 64x the filter resolution of the other speaker channels, and because the receiver will not detect a separate sub connected with RCA, you essentially lose all that processing power.

So if he doesn't want to get a new sub, then he should at least buy a standalone amp to power the sub, allowing him to hook up the FR/FL speakers normally with speaker wire and connecting the SW amp via the RC pre-out.

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post #6612 of 7220 Old 01-26-2012, 08:18 AM
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HOWTO: Guide to Fix your Mac OS X's Speaking Map/Configuration and Allow for AC3/DTS Passthrough, So you Can Hear the Audio from Surround Files as it was Designed to be Heard
DIFFICULTY: Easy, 10-15 minutes

I created this guide with the hope that other Mac users will search for this problem and find this post.

Having trouble playing the audio tracks from your files (e.g., ripped movies or streaming video or DVDs, etc) in the proper surround sound codec that is available on the source file? I am new to the HiFi world, just getting my first TV and AVR in ~10 years last July. Once I purchased five speakers, I almost immediately noticed most dialog was not coming from the center speaker. I understand that some may come from other speakers, but I was dubious that the amount coming from the rear surrounds was correct. I stumbled upon this website from the Perian app, which is a guide that explains how to setup Perian/Quicktime with true AC3/DTS passthrough. Since that post was written, technology has advanced and Macs now include an HDMI port. Therefore, the post is in need of revision. However, after some tinkering I was able to figure out how to have AC3/DTS passthrough.

On the left side (input) of my Denon AVR 2310’s display, it shows the correct amount of channels based on the source file (e.g., when I watch the Training Day ripped mkv from DVD, it shows 5 distinct channels). The right side of the display shows how many channels are being sent to the speakers (with the Training Day example, it showed 5 distinct channels). As a result, I thought this meant I was getting true 5 channel sound. This is not the case because Apple did not map the speakers properly without a slight tweak in their included software!


This is most likely due to an HDMI format issue and/or bad speaker map from the default audio device configuration that OS X creates for you. This means, your problem most likely is NOT hardware. Read this howto to learn to fix your problem and enjoy movies the way they were meant to be heard!


This guide was created using Mac OS X 10.7.2 on a 2010 17” MacBook Pro for the Denon AVR 2310. I connect the computer to the AVR via HDMI (I use Moshi Mini DP to HDMI Adapter with Audio Support— careful, other Mini DP to HDMI adapters do not have audio support). The AVR connects via HDMI out to the input of my Sony KDL-Z5100 46" LCD TV (and optical audio out to the AVR). I have a 5 speaker setup, no subwoofer. Other Denon AVRs should work (as should any AVR in general, so long as it supports AC3 and DTS passthrough). I have not tested passthrough with an optical cable, but I assume there would be no issues. Your Apple computer and version of OS X may require you use different settings as presented in this guide. Luckily, everything presented here is easily reversed, and nothing presented will cause any irreversible harm to your computer’s hardware, software, or Denon AVR.


INSTRUCTIONS
The key to getting dialog to play (indeed, all channels of the source file to play via the correct speakers in your surround system) correctly, i.e., as it was meant to be heard, is to configure the speaker map on your Mac properly. Follow these instructions, as tested on Mac OS X 10.7.2 (earlier versions may be slightly different):
  1. 1. You need to enable AC3/DTS passthrough. Go to Applications>Utilities>Terminal. When the application opens, copy and paste the following, without the quotes, then press enter: “defaults write com.cod3r.a52codec attemptPassthrough 1” and “defaults write org.perian.Perian attemptDTSPassthrough 1”. q.v. FOOTNOTE 1
  2. 2. Connect the HDMI cable from your AVR to your Mac. Make sure you select the proper mode on your AVR so your computer is recognized. Make sure your audio output device in OS X is changed to, e.g., "DENON-AVAMP" (other AVRs will show something else) from the default "Internal Speakers", otherwise, your audio will play through your internal computer speakers. You can quickly switch the audio output device by clicking on the sound icon in the top menu bar, whilst holding option on the keyboard. If you don't see the sound/volume icon in your menu bar, go to the apple icon in the top left, click System Preferences>Sound. Then click the box for "Show volume in menu bar". This will make your life easier.
  3. 3. Go to Applications>Utilities>Audio MIDI Setup
  4. 4. On the left side of the "Audio Devices" window that appears, click "HDMI".
  5. 5. Change Format to 48000.0 Hz and in the dropdown to the right, select “8ch-24bit Integer”. q.v. FOOTNOTE 2
  6. 6. Now click “Configure Speakers”. In the top right, select the surround system you have. I have 5 speakers (no subwoofer), but I selected “5.1 Surround”. Click each speaker name to make sure sound comes out of the speaker name you just clicked. Adjust as necessary.


That’s it! Now you will hear sound as each track was mixed and it won’t be obfuscated by your Mac! q.v. FOOTNOTE 3 I suggest you double check that everything worked as described by playing a movie file that has AC3 or DTS sound for a minute or two. If there are any unexpected issues, confirm that your source file is using multiple channels by using a video file information analyzer; I recommend VideoSpec (free- the download is slow, just be patient).

Now my Denon AVR-2310 display will continue to say "MULTI CH IN". Also, the Denon AVR 2310CI will show 8 channels on the input (left) side of its display. This is because of the changes made in Audio MIDI Setup and this will not change, based on the source file you are playing. The output to speakers (right) side of the display will also be fixed, at the amount of speaker channels you have (e.g. 5.1, 7.1, etc). The Denon display will still continue to say "MULTI CH IN".


I really hope my guide was helpful. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I’ll try my best to help!



Footnotes

1 Disclaimer: I am unsure if this is needed anymore. I am leaning towards the idea that this still needs to be done, as the Perian team would have removed the big disclaimer and the link to this site if this part was no longer relevant (this is not the cause for other parts of the guide because it can be variable, depending on your specs and needs). I don’t see the harm in doing this because if something goes awry, you can turn off AC3 and DTS passthrough with the above commands, except you remove the 1 at the end of each command. If that doesn’t make sense, see the guide step #4 I am basing this tutorial of off for the full command. If you have evidence that this step is unnecessary, please provide an explanation and links to support your claim and I will update the guide.

2 You will find a discrepancy in the values I recommend and what the reference link suggests. Specifically, the reference link suggests that you use 2ch-16bit format, but this will not get you surround sound on today's systems. Changing the sample rate to 48 Hz is recommended via the referenced link and since this makes sense, I recommend it here. I think the reason you should now select 8ch-24bit Integer is because when the above guide was written, HDMI was not available on the author's Mac. Now that HDMI is available, selecting 8ch-24bit Integer gives you the best way to configure your surround sound setup, whether you have 5.1, 7.1, etc.. channels. I am not sure if the "8ch-24bit Integer" format value is correct for every situation, however I have tested them and in my situation, the values I give do work properly. Please post your feedback and any changes you made (for reference sake, include the hardware and software used, please!).

3 You may need to configure your preferred media player to take advantage of surround sode tracks, however, there is now no limitation at the OS X level preventing this. VLC works without any further changes, however, some applications have preferences that need to be updated for the fact that you are using an AVR to passthrough audio. In Plex, go to Preferences>System>Audio and Select HDMI in "Audio Output", select your speaker configuration (amount of speaker channels you have) under "Speaker Configuration", select "Dolby Digital (AC3) Capable Receiver" and/or "DTS Capable Receiver", if applicable (yes for Denon AVR-2310CI) and select Default under "Audio Output Device options. Then you can resume your movie taking advantage of your sound surround system. Other video players will be similar.
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post #6613 of 7220 Old 01-28-2012, 08:41 PM
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I have had my 2310ci for just over two years and it has worked great up until last week. For some reason both front speakers are not working. The zone 2 speakers work fine, but I haven't verified the surrounds (I don't have a center or sub). I have toggled through the front speaker settup ensuring the A speakers were selected. I also swapped the front right speaker over to the B outputs, no joy.

I could use some advice on further trouble shooting steps - what could be the problem?

Thanks!!!
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post #6614 of 7220 Old 01-29-2012, 02:43 AM
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^^
If your surrounds don't work either, then try taking a can of compressed air and blowing into the headphone jack a few times to clear out the dust or just take a headphone plug and insert/remove it a few times. Should do the trick.

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post #6615 of 7220 Old 01-29-2012, 11:19 AM
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Fantastic! A couple of shots of compressed air and the problem was solved! I guess over time dust builds up in the jack and makes the receiver think head phones are plugged in??? Thanks for the reply!
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post #6616 of 7220 Old 02-11-2012, 06:50 PM
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This may be a simple problem, but I cannot seem to access the menu on my AVR-2310CI. I press the menu button on the remote and nothing happens. Even pressing the menu button the front of the receiver seems to produce no result. All my inputs and outputs work fine. I have a PS3 and VCR as inputs and a Samsung LCD as output. PS3 and Samsung are hooked up via HDMI. I've had this receiver for more than a year and I set it up on the GUI a while back. I haven't really changed anything since, but wanted to check some settings.

I have a vague memory that the receiver should be displaying something about the menu entries even if the GUI isn't coming up, but literally nothing is happening on the TV or the receiver display. This makes me think something is locked somehow?

Any help would be great. I have no idea what I could be doing wrong here.
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post #6617 of 7220 Old 02-12-2012, 07:20 PM
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^^
Make sure that the Video Convert setting is set to ON.

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post #6618 of 7220 Old 02-12-2012, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpaudio View Post

I have a vague memory that the receiver should be displaying something about the menu entries even if the GUI isn't coming up, but literally nothing is happening on the TV or the receiver display. This makes me think something is locked somehow?

Any help would be great. I have no idea what I could be doing wrong here.

Hi jdpaudio, it appears you may set surround mode to "Pure Direct" and enabled it. Try pressing the "Pure" button at the back of the remote.
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post #6619 of 7220 Old 02-13-2012, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi jdpaudio, it appears you may set surround mode to "Pure Direct" and enabled it. Try pressing the "Pure" button at the back of the remote.

I tried changing in and out of pure direct mode for a couple different inputs and still the menu button on the remote and the receiver front seem to do nothing. Any other ideas?
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post #6620 of 7220 Old 02-13-2012, 06:36 PM
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I have 2310ci used primarily for music listening in basement. I am running VCR into 2310 using the VCR tuner for TV watching on an old Toshiba tube. TV is connected to 2310 using S-Video(as I said this is an OLD Toshiba). I am getting whole-house DVR set up soon and will have HDMI output from DVR "client" box to 2310. The question is "can I still use S-video output from 2310 to OLD Toshiba" when HDMI is connection between DVR box and 2310?
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post #6621 of 7220 Old 02-13-2012, 07:20 PM
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^^
No. AVRs don't allow HDMI--> analog down conversion, rather you would need to input an analog video signal to the AVR in addition to the HDMI as noted on p. 10 in the Owner's manual.

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post #6622 of 7220 Old 02-14-2012, 09:19 AM
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jdsmoothie, thanks SO much for your tip to texotter to clear the headphone jack!!!!! I've been going absolutely crazy for days trying to solve the no-sound-from-speakers-but-zone2-works-fine problem with my AVR-2310CI.

Finally I remembered this site from my set up struggle two years ago. Popped over here and again you came through!!!! THANKS!

CC (formely still quinn - Had to reregister)
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post #6623 of 7220 Old 02-14-2012, 09:21 AM
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^^
Great! Glad it worked for you as well. These older models seem to have this issue.

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post #6624 of 7220 Old 02-14-2012, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
No. AVRs don't allow HDMI--> analog down conversion, rather you would need to input an analog video signal to the AVR in addition to the HDMI as noted on p. 10 in the Owner's manual.

Thanks for the feedback jdsmoothie...wasn't sure I was interpreting what I saw on pg 10 correctly. thanks for clearing up.
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post #6625 of 7220 Old 02-15-2012, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi jdpaudio, it appears you may set surround mode to "Pure Direct" and enabled it. Try pressing the "Pure" button at the back of the remote.

I tried plugging in the setup microphone and the auto setup began automatically. I was then able to cancel using the 'return' button on the remote (watching the display on the receiver, still no GUI) and navigate the entire menu.

If I cancel all the way out of the menu, then I cannot get back to it by pressing the menu buttons (either on the remote or front panel).

So, my workaround for now is to use the front panel and plug in the microphone each time I need to change something. Obviously this is inconvenient, so I'm going to keep looking for a permanent fix.

I'm going to call Denon for support this afternoon and I'll try to post a resolution here in case it is helpful to anyone else.
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post #6626 of 7220 Old 02-15-2012, 04:46 AM
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^^
Reset the microprocessor (p. 70) which should bring the GUI back.

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post #6627 of 7220 Old 02-16-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Reset the microprocessor (p. 70) which should bring the GUI back.

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately a processor reset didn't fix my problem.

I called Denon and got a lot of "that's weird"-type responses. Basically it sounds like I have a defect, although it seems that this is one they haven't seen before.

I'm going to take it to the authorized service place that's 30 miles from here on Saturday and leave it for them to repair. I'll post if I hear how they resolve the issue.
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post #6628 of 7220 Old 02-17-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moolala View Post

a couple of setup issues that I didn't have to consider until (helping a friend)

1.) if he goes with phantom center channel initially...are you still able to control the vol/gain of what would have been the center channel content or does the DENON split it across the left/right channels once you indicate you have no center speaker and that's you lose all control over it from that point forward ??


2.) he also has passive subwoofer...so running L/R speaker wires from receiver to SUB and then back to the speakers. I'm very curious to hear what impact this can have re audyssey evaulation during automated setup with the mic. Personally I think it has great potential to misinterpret and screw it up and I wonder whether it makes more sense to do setup without it and just add it back in afterwords...any impressions regarding this ??

also...these posts I just saw about Wall-E and Star Wars...is that a NEW firmware or just a recommendation to apply the earlier fix from 2010 ? (I think this same guy has Sony S370)

thanks all !!

Not only do you not have control on the center channel volume, (on my Denon 3806 at least) the center channel level is 3dB too loud as the signal is now output from 2 speakers instead of just one. I've found no solution for this!
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post #6629 of 7220 Old 02-18-2012, 12:17 PM
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I posted over in the LCD panel forum, but thought I'd try here too, hoping someone would have something to contribute.
I use my 2310CI's HDMI output to feed the 1st HDMI input on my Samsung, and I've had two TV main boards fail (apparently) so that none of the HDMI inputs on the TV work. I've browsed this forum and tried some of the suggestions regarding Anynet, etc., but without luck. I'm reluctant to call Samsung at this point, as I'm suspicious there's more to this problem than just swapping main boards. The details are below in my post from the LCD thread.... Thanks for any help you all can provide.
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I'm hoping someone can shed some light on an unusual HDMI problem. I've had the HDMI input fail on my Samsung LN46C750; the set is 6 months old and was set up with my Denon AVR HDMI output feeding the Samsung HDMI 1 input. All was well for months until I powered up the set one day and received a "no signal" message. I tested by connecting my components (the AVR, Dishnetwork RXer, and Roku) directly to the Samsung HDMI inputs and still received the "no signal" message for all three connections. I tried a factory reset on the Samsung, then tested all three components again with three different cables, same results. I ultimately opened a service request with Samsung and had the main board in the set replaced. I fired everything up while the service person was here with my AVR connected to the Samsung HDMI 1 input and all was well. The next day, I received the "no signal" message again.
I haven't contacted Samsung yet; I don't mind having another service call for a main board replacement, but it seems odd that two would fail.
I tested again by connecting three different components directly to the Samsung with three different cables. When a device is connected to, say, HDMI input 2, then that input will appear in the source list like it's a valid source, but when selected does not work and I receive the "no signal" message. When no cable is connected to a particular HDMI port, that source is "greyed out", and a "check cable" message is displayed.
Can anyone offer any insight into what's happening? Am I really just unlucky and have another bad main board or is there some weird HDCP/handshake thing going on with my AVR and other components? One more thing to mention is that I had the same AVR and gear connected to a very similar LN46C650 for over a year without issues before I switched to the C750.
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post #6630 of 7220 Old 02-18-2012, 02:10 PM
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^^
All signs point to a defective C750.

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