*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 7206 Old 08-28-2009, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Anyway I believe I have discovered a minor glitch in the way the 2310 works.
I have 3 devices hooked up to my AVR, an HTPC, a Wii, and and XBOX360. The HTPC is connected via hdmi for audio only (don't ask), and the Wii and 360 are connected via component video.

I believe the "glitch" may be with the way you have assigned (or not assigned) your inputs. I think you have "overlapping" inputs sharing the same "name".

What "name" (e.g. VCR, HDP, TV/CBL) are you using for each input source, and have you actually ASSIGNED each of your input connections to different names?

There is no reason it would be designed to not be able to switch from HDMI to component input!

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post #902 of 7206 Old 08-28-2009, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

of course you can, all these ABT powered Denons can scale HDMI>HDMI.

see pg 36 of the manual under "Video Settings". You can set scaling output resolution for both analog and HDMI sources. Just put the i/p scaler on "Analog + HDMI".

and it won't molest 1080p 24fps sources, right?
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post #903 of 7206 Old 08-28-2009, 09:14 PM
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I have a JVC D-VHS unit that I've hooked up to HDMI4. I tried checking out one of my tapes (recorded at 1080i, DD5.1) and I could get video, but no audio. Also some HDMI handshake issues (at first the JVC blank screen would show with power on, then later on a "No Signal" message until I would actually start playing a tape), but it's the lack of audio I can't figure out. The JVC's menu has no HDMI audio settings (only optical); but I had no problems with audio via HDMI when it was connected to my Yamaha 2600.

Anyone using a D-VHS deck with the 2310? I could try connecting it via component/optical, but I'd like to know if it's simply a setting I haven't discovered yet, before I pull everything out to rewire.
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post #904 of 7206 Old 08-28-2009, 09:18 PM
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Denon did a great job in implementing the abt 2010. I re-ran the S&M test disc with my denon 2010 in source direct mode. Its performance was superior in synthetic deinterlacing/film cadence recognition tests that were better than the abt chip in the denon dbp-2010ci. If you're considering a matching denon player, the abt chip is excellent and negates the need of the 2010 over the 1610.

In comparison to the oppo, performance was nearly identical in synthetic tests, though I feel the oppo still offers a slightly better real-world image. I would say the denon dbp-2010 and Denon AVR-2310CI offer very similar images.

Needless to say, this receiver is a terrific pairing for any bd player with a source direct feature like the new denons or pioneers.
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post #905 of 7206 Old 08-28-2009, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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and it won't molest 1080p 24fps sources, right?

well, sounds like you have it sitting there in front of you so you could test it yourself

theoretically, no, it should pass through perfectly. note that if you set the resolution output to 1080p/60 (instead of "auto") it CAN do a framerate conversion of 1080p/24>1080p/60 (and vice versa).

What should happen is, on "auto", it will pass through both 1080p/60 and /24 if your TV can accept both. You want it upscaling lower rez sources and passing through 1080p sources unless you say otherwise. But a few people have reported that, on "auto", due to some handshaking issue with the TV it won't pass through 1080p/24 but instead converts it to 60fps. This is apparently isolated as others have repeated these tests and both 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 pass through, unmolested, on "auto".

Quote:


ABT 2010 Video Processing Results

thanks so much for doing those tests, it's great to have some objective feedback on the various ABT-2010 implementations. In general, would you say they are all so close that most people could consider them effectively equal (e.g. it's mostly just splitting hairs at this point)? Are there any major functional differences that would inspire one to choose one vs the other?

I'm not familiar with the "S&M test disc", to what are you referring?

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post #906 of 7206 Old 08-28-2009, 10:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Denon did a great job in implementing the abt 2010. I re-ran the S&M test disc with my denon 2010 in source direct mode. Its performance was superior in synthetic deinterlacing/film cadence recognition tests that were better than the abt chip in the denon dbp-2010ci. If you're considering a matching denon player, the abt chip is excellent and negates the need of the 2010 over the 1610.

In comparison to the oppo, performance was nearly identical in synthetic tests, though I feel the oppo still offers a slightly better real-world image. I would say the denon dbp-2010 and Denon AVR-2310CI offer very similar images.

Needless to say, this receiver is a terrific pairing for any bd player with a source direct feature like the new denons or pioneers.

I have Just bought a 3800 for the same price as the Oppo do you feel the VRS is better then HQV, I also have the DVDO EDGE and that great.
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post #907 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

....thanks so much for doing those tests, it's great to have some objective feedback on the various ABT-2010 implementations. In general, would you say they are all so close that most people could consider them effectively equal (e.g. it's mostly just splitting hairs at this point)? Are there any major functional differences that would inspire one to choose one vs the other?

I'm not familiar with the "S&M test disc", to what are you referring?

S&M = Spears and Munsil, both of whom are AVS members. It is the "High Definition Benchmark" BD Edition Test Disk by Stacey Spears and Don Munsil. Hang around the blu-ray threads enough (especially the OPPO BDP-83 thread) and you can't help but hearing about the S&M disk. I think OPPO includes it with their player now. The test disk was introduced on AVS at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131344

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post #908 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdblu View Post

I have Just bought a 3800 for the same price as the Oppo do you feel the VRS is better then HQV, I also have the DVDO EDGE and that great.

here is what i can say to that:

ABT VRS is better at synthetic deinterlacing tests. HQV is quicker to recognize common cadences, but fails on some of the obscure film cadences (5:5, 6:4). HQV Reon provides a lot of detail, but I am beginning to move into the camp of ABT. I ran similar tests using source direct with my onkyo 906 with reon hqv and denon 2310 with abt 2010 and i prefer the abt chip. For most of us, its performance will be damn close to the oppo less more detailed tweaking adjustments. the 2310 hines in the video processing dept. Hands down best at its price point.
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post #909 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

well, sounds like you have it sitting there in front of you so you could test it yourself

theoretically, no, it should pass through perfectly. note that if you set the resolution output to 1080p/60 (instead of "auto") it CAN do a framerate conversion of 1080p/24>1080p/60 (and vice versa).

What should happen is, on "auto", it will pass through both 1080p/60 and /24 if your TV can accept both. You want it upscaling lower rez sources and passing through 1080p sources unless you say otherwise. But a few people have reported that, on "auto", due to some handshaking issue with the TV it won't pass through 1080p/24 but instead converts it to 60fps. This is apparently isolated as others have repeated these tests and both 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 pass through, unmolested, on "auto".



thanks so much for doing those tests, it's great to have some objective feedback on the various ABT-2010 implementations. In general, would you say they are all so close that most people could consider them effectively equal (e.g. it's mostly just splitting hairs at this point)? Are there any major functional differences that would inspire one to choose one vs the other?

I'm not familiar with the "S&M test disc", to what are you referring?

when i get more time i am going to dig a little deeper at what the abt chip does or does not effect (chroma upsampling errors, any white clipping, etc).

oh, and get the S&M disc - terrific resource for callibration and relative comparisons. Poorly named (mailman might look at you funny, but very well done).
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post #910 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Denon did a great job in implementing the abt 2010. I re-ran the S&M test disc with my denon 2010 in source direct mode. Its performance was superior in synthetic deinterlacing/film cadence recognition tests that were better than the abt chip in the denon dbp-2010ci. If you're considering a matching denon player, the abt chip is excellent and negates the need of the 2010 over the 1610.

In comparison to the oppo, performance was nearly identical in synthetic tests, though I feel the oppo still offers a slightly better real-world image. I would say the denon dbp-2010 and Denon AVR-2310CI offer very similar images.

Needless to say, this receiver is a terrific pairing for any bd player with a source direct feature like the new denons or pioneers.

winston9332,

I was considering the Denon AVR-2310CI and Denon AVR-3310CI so that my other components could take advantage of the ABT 2010 processiong in the AVR. So are you saying that the ABT 2010 is implemented better in the Denon AVR than in their blu-ray player?


Respectfully,
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post #911 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

winston9332,

I was considering the Denon AVR-2310CI and Denon AVR-3310CI so that my other components could take advantage of the ABT 2010 processiong in the AVR. So are you saying that the ABT 2010 is implemented better in the Denon AVR than in their blu-ray player?


Respectfully,
Willie

Different chips. The Denon 2010 blu ray player uses the ABT 1030. The Denon receivers (2310, 3310, and 4310) use the ABT 2010. The Oppo uses the ABT 2010 as well.

My recommendation would be to get the denon dbp-1610 and use the source direct feature to let the Denon AVR2310's ABT 2010 do the processing and deinterlacing.

Differences are small and are only really visible in synthetic tests if you ask me.
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post #912 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 09:51 AM
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I am having trouble getting my subwoofer to turn on. I am using the sub preout on the back of the unit and have the rca plugged into the RCA input for unfiltered signal on the sub amplifier. I am getting no output and must be skipping a simple step. Any ideas?
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post #913 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Different chips. The Denon 2010 blu ray player uses the ABT 1030. The Denon receivers (2310, 3310, and 4310) use the ABT 2010. The Oppo uses the ABT 2010 as well.

The 1030 is the chip in the 1910/790 model, right? How would you compare it overall to the 2010?

Quote:


oh, and get the S&M disc - terrific resource for callibration and relative comparisons. Poorly named (mailman might look at you funny, but very well done).

I will look into it! Does it have both HD and SD deinterlacing tests? I was thinking about buying the HQV disc (that CNet uses) to do some objective testing of deinterlacing on my various components, have you compared that test disc to the S&M?

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post #914 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by UofA fan View Post

I am having trouble getting my subwoofer to turn on. I am using the sub preout on the back of the unit and have the rca plugged into the RCA input for unfiltered signal on the sub amplifier. I am getting no output and must be skipping a simple step. Any ideas?

Sounds like you have the wiring correct. Make sure there isn't something silly like an off/auto/on switch on the sub that is in the wrong position.

Assuming that's all good, go to MANUAL SETUP and then SPEAKER SETUP in the GUI:

1. in "Speaker Config" confirm sub is set to "Yes"
2. go down to "Channel Level" and run the manual test tones.

if the sub doesn't give a healthy rumble when it cycles to the sub tone, something is wrong.

Do you have access to either another receiver or another subwoofer that you could test to see which component is faulty?

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post #915 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 02:33 PM
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I apologize for being new to all of this, but could someone please explain the significance of this feature for the 2310 vs a unit like the 1910 that does not have it?

Dedicated PHONO input with phono preamp stage

~much appreciated
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post #916 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 03:07 PM
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Old phonographs/record players don't have any sort of built-in amplification or equalization - the signal coming off the cartridge is very, very weak. If you hooked this signal up to a normal amp via RCA cables you wouldn't hear much of anything since it's well below minimums. If you do it will be pretty distorted. Hence a phono input is a special port that's wired to look for those weak signals, amplify, and equalize them before passing them on to be processed/amplified by the rest of the AVR circuitry.

This is useful if you have an older record player and want to hook it straight to your AVR. You can also use an external RIAA amp to boost the signal and then use a normal RCA input on any receiver. Or, you can get a newer record player that has a built-in amplifier and a normal RCA input on any receiver.
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post #917 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The 1030 is the chip in the 1910/790 model, right? How would you compare it overall to the 2010?



I will look into it! Does it have both HD and SD deinterlacing tests? I was thinking about buying the HQV disc (that CNet uses) to do some objective testing of deinterlacing on my various components, have you compared that test disc to the S&M?

both the 1030 and 2010 chips are excellent at detail enhancement and noise reduction (I know that sounds contradicting). The 2010 excels in better recognition of diverse edits that usually create jaggie messes.
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post #918 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 03:36 PM
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and the abt 2010 can force 24fps, which i have found just causes more problems than it solves (ie lipsynch issues).
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post #919 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 03:52 PM
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Thank you for the clarification on my question, cleared it up.
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post #920 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 08:21 PM
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Okay folks, my mind is numb from all of my research. I think I have settled on a Denon receiver, just not sure of which one. Can get a 1909 refurb for $350, a 1910 new for ~$420, or the 6ave deal for the 2310 @ $550. Is the 2310 really worth the extra $200?
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post #921 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 08:43 PM
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I went to Best Buy to check out the 2310, nice unit but damn at $940----Ill go internet sales for sure...lol
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post #922 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the 2310 really worth the extra $200?

only you can answer that. if you don't have $200, then no

all the differences are described in the first post -- ultimately you will have to make a value judgment about how much it is worth to you to have a 5th HDMI input, a phono input, and the full GUI with overlay.

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post #923 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 09:31 PM
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Okay, just started researching the 2310CI. This would be a replacement for my Denon AVR-3805 which has no HDMI. This receiver seems like a fantastic bargain considering all the features it has. I have two specific questions:

1) Do you feel it has comparable build quality to my old 3805 which has been completely bullet proof? Particularly in regards to heat as the unit is in a cabinet (vented) and gets pretty hot.

2) How well does the Audyssey Dynamic Volume perform? We have lived for years with the ridiculously variable audio levels of today's tv programs. I have high hopes for the Audyssey Dynamic Volume system.

Everything else about the 2310CI seems exactly what I need.

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post #924 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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1) you can't expect it to match the build quality of a $1200 hoss like the 3805, it weighs like 12 lbs less and will not have the raw guts in the amp section of the 3805.... but in terms of features, flexibility, video, etc it is far ahead of the 3805. Unless you are blasting the volume to reference levels in a large dedicated theater room, you will probably be happier with the newer unit.

2) Dynamic Volume in my opinion is fantastic. Some of the worst commercials will still be annoying, even on "midnight" mode, but they won't blast you out of the room.

While most people think about Dynamic Volume being for loud, annoying commercials, the biggest benefit (for me) has been the ability to watch movies without touching the volume control. I live in a townhouse, with a medium sized living room, and can't blast at high volumes. Plus, it always annoyed me when I turned up the volume to hear dialogue and then had to rush for the remote when the explosions start before the wife yells at me to turn it down. With Dynamic Volume on "evening" mode I can watch an entire movie with my wife and NEVER touch the volume control (a miracle as far as I'm concerned), and I don't feel like I'm listening to compressed crap. On "midnight" mode, I can watch a movie late at night with the wife asleep upstairs and both of us are happy (although, being in a thin-walled place I do have to be careful with heavy bass in action movies).

The ability of the Dynamic EQ + Volume system to control dynamic swings while not sacrificing the richness/fullness of the surround field is very, very impressive. I went from a 3803 to a much "lower end" AVR 789.... but I do 99% of my listening at low to moderate volumes, and because of the Audyssey "suite" the 789 sound better then the tank-like 3803 in these situations. The 3800 model will be able to sound better at massive volumes... but I just don't utilize those resources. I wouldn't get a 2310CI to be the heart of a huge, dedicated HT room (unless you have super efficient speakers), but for the "typical" living room setup it will be fabulous.

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post #925 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 10:01 PM
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Batpig thank you so much for the detailed info. Like you, we have a typical medium living room setup (using a Definitive satellite/sub setup). Only on occasion to we listen at loud levels (like when I play Halo - wife not home). The Audyssey seems a perfect solution and I'm not worried at all about the decrease in amp power compared to the 3805.

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post #926 of 7206 Old 08-29-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snugglebear View Post

Old phonographs/record players don't have any sort of built-in amplification or equalization - the signal coming off the cartridge is very, very weak. If you hooked this signal up to a normal amp via RCA cables you wouldn't hear much of anything since it's well below minimums. If you do it will be pretty distorted. Hence a phono input is a special port that's wired to look for those weak signals, amplify, and equalize them before passing them on to be processed/amplified by the rest of the AVR circuitry.

This is useful if you have an older record player and want to hook it straight to your AVR. You can also use an external RIAA amp to boost the signal and then use a normal RCA input on any receiver. Or, you can get a newer record player that has a built-in amplifier and a normal RCA input on any receiver.

Snugglebear... how do the usb turntables fit into this mix?

thanks

iirc afaik fwiw imo
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post #927 of 7206 Old 08-30-2009, 05:11 AM
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Very easily most likely, as USB turntables generally have pre-amps installed as well as RCA line out connections. No need for a dedicated phono jack in this case, rather just connect to a RCA IN jack.

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post #928 of 7206 Old 08-30-2009, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Sounds like you have the wiring correct. Make sure there isn't something silly like an off/auto/on switch on the sub that is in the wrong position.

Assuming that's all good, go to MANUAL SETUP and then SPEAKER SETUP in the GUI:

1. in "Speaker Config" confirm sub is set to "Yes"
2. go down to "Channel Level" and run the manual test tones.

if the sub doesn't give a healthy rumble when it cycles to the sub tone, something is wrong.

Do you have access to either another receiver or another subwoofer that you could test to see which component is faulty?

Batpig thank you for the reply. The problem was found to be that the sub output was set to Zone 2. Changed it to normal and it worked just fine.

BTW what exactly is zone 2?
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post #929 of 7206 Old 08-30-2009, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnCaldwell View Post

Thank you both for the feedback.

I misspoke, HDMI-CEC does work with my Samsung LN52A750 TV. If i turn my TV OFF, the 2310ci turns off. But nothing else happens when I try to turn it on.
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post #930 of 7206 Old 08-30-2009, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I believe the "glitch" may be with the way you have assigned (or not assigned) your inputs. I think you have "overlapping" inputs sharing the same "name".

What "name" (e.g. VCR, HDP, TV/CBL) are you using for each input source, and have you actually ASSIGNED each of your input connections to different names?

There is no reason it would be designed to not be able to switch from HDMI to component input!

Batpig, thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Your Denon->English guide was extremely useful!!!

I fixed my problem, I think it has to do with the fact that the receiver has 5 "slots" for inputs but many many more potential input combinations. Additionally, whoever designed the input assign table where some of the names on the left are "virtual" (e.g. hdp) and some correspond to physical inputs (e.g. analog vcr/ipod audio) needs to get a talking to!

But I digress. I solved my problem by assigning unused hdmi inputs as well to my wii and xbox360 (connected via component). Now switching between htpc (hdmi) and 360 and wii (component + unused hdmi) works without issue.

Thanks again for writing your awesome guide!
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