Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4067 Old 09-17-2009, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I asked this on the other page and am curious how hard your speakers are to drive.

hey zen.....
So far I've had the 4310 driving the following speakers,
sometimes to insane levels (at least that's what my wife says)
VMPS RM-40s - 4 ohm, 200+ lbs (each) 7 drivers.... monsters
DefTech Mythos - ST based 7 speaker system (efficent easy to drive speakers)
Ascend Acoustic Sierra's (3) sensitivity 86.5, CBM-170 (2), HTM-200 (2)...

What really strikes me as odd, I've had the 4310 driving the RM-40s into the 95+db range for a good hour or so, with no adverse listening effects
Then go over and put my hand on top of the unit expecting it to be hot, particularly in the summer.... luke warm
amazing me thinks

dc

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post #272 of 4067 Old 09-18-2009, 08:02 AM
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plus for those that are concerned about amp power... there is always the pre-amp outputs in the back!!!! use any of these AVR's as processors . u can always spend more $ on huge room heaters... i mean separate amps

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post #273 of 4067 Old 09-18-2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

plus for those that are concerned about amp power... there is always the pre-amp outputs in the back!!!! use any of these AVR's as processors . u can always spend more $ on huge room heaters... i mean separate amps

I agree, but that is also why I am not getting rid of my Denon THX Ultra II AVR 4806 which allows me not to have those heaters. ;-) EDIT: I am not knocking you guys for getting the AVR 4810 for the awesome bells and whistles.
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post #274 of 4067 Old 09-18-2009, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I agree, but that is also why I am not getting rid of my Denon THX Ultra II AVR 4806 which allows me not to have those heaters. ;-) EDIT: I am knocking you guys for getting the AVR 4810 for the awesome bells and whistles.

I have to admit since i got the 10 channel 300watt POA that runs about 280watts in idle mode most of the time a lot more when in use that room doesn't need any heating anymore at times i expect greenpeace to burst trough the windows hollywood style to take it away from me.

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post #275 of 4067 Old 09-18-2009, 12:17 PM
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em, i also have a hot HTPC in teh room. unfortunately i can't just shutoff the heat in my room ='(.

that means it'll be boiling during winter w/windows all opened!!! these AVRs are getting REALLY REALLY HOT!

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post #276 of 4067 Old 09-18-2009, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

hey zen.....
So far I've had the 4310 driving the following speakers,
sometimes to insane levels (at least that's what my wife says)
VMPS RM-40s - 4 ohm, 200+ lbs (each) 7 drivers.... monsters
DefTech Mythos - ST based 7 speaker system (efficent easy to drive speakers)
Ascend Acoustic Sierra's (3) sensitivity 86.5, CBM-170 (2), HTM-200 (2)...

What really strikes me as odd, I've had the 4310 driving the RM-40s into the 95+db range for a good hour or so, with no adverse listening effects
Then go over and put my hand on top of the unit expecting it to be hot, particularly in the summer.... luke warm
amazing me thinks

dc

I admire your taste!!!
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post #277 of 4067 Old 09-18-2009, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRat View Post

I admire your taste!!!

Thanks AVRat.....
I've gone through a ton of speakers through the years but none better than the VMPS RM-40s!
They take some time to get setup properly but once dialed in (including acoustic room treatments)........ the magic starts.

And of course the Ascend Sierra's are the best speakers on the planet... for the money... imho

dc

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post #278 of 4067 Old 09-18-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I agree, but that is also why I am not getting rid of my Denon THX Ultra II AVR 4806 which allows me not to have those heaters. ;-)

My 4806 puts out quite a bit of heat driving 7.1 _RT Polks). I am still trying to figure out the possibilities when using the 4810 and 4806 together. Ya, the wife will probably not go for having the 2 of them in the same room. I might have to make a little av rack hidden in the bar.
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post #279 of 4067 Old 09-19-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IwantmyTHX View Post

My 4806 puts out quite a bit of heat driving 7.1 _RT Polks). I am still trying to figure out the possibilities when using the 4810 and 4806 together. Ya, the wife will probably not go for having the 2 of them in the same room. I might have to make a little av rack hidden in the bar.

In that logic get the 4810, sell the 4806 and use the money from the 4806 to get 3 nice mono-amps for the 3 fronts second hand. Much easer todo and the end result will be more power.

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post #280 of 4067 Old 09-22-2009, 07:12 AM
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Review of the little brother 4310 is out

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...-623941/review

Quote:


The sound of the AVR-4310, straight out of the crate, is great. Not just okay or good in parts, but bona fide great. There's some guy in Japan responsible for tuning Denon's receivers of late, and he has got all the audio desires nailed. Put on any action movie (Iron Man was to hand), and the sound is huge, potent and powerful with stupendous bass.

Yet at the same time the 4310 can be as agile and subtle as a really good stereo hi-fi amplifier. Having only just disconnected Yamaha's similarly-priced DSP Z7, the Denon kicks it up the speaker terminals in quite a few areas of auditory delight.

Perhaps if I wanted a little more simplicity in the set-up, a few less tweaks and tricks and perhaps a little more grunt over refinement, I would have a peek at the Z7… then quickly run back to the AVR-4310 to revel in its dynamic dexterity and detailing.

And then there is its Dolby Pro-Logic IIz and Audyssey DSX trickery. Well, Dolby Pro-Logic IIz is an absolute triumph – but not for its use with two-channel matrix sources. The format's real magic is processing height channel information out of all Dolby and DTS formats – even those of an HD persuasion.

And, wow, what a difference. Tony Stark's quick-fire dialogue in Dolby TrueHD is immediately lifted up into the centre of the screen and the whole front soundstage gains a mass of solidity and scale. As he burst out of his captors' cave in the original Iron Man armour, the entire front of the room exploded with three-dimensional sound like I've never heard before. Put it this way, once you have tried TrueHD or DTS HD with added IIz Height, rear-back channels will be a thing of the past.



OUTPUT: Sound goes in, magic comes out

Casting my mind back to Yamaha's DSP amplifiers with their added 'presence' height channels, the difference is a world apart. These modes have always seemed to induce a feint layer of hash and vaguely phasey edge to the front soundstage, and I confess I expected exactly the same from Dolby's version.

By comparison, IIz Height, when added to DD and DTS sound, is rock-solid, precisely-focused and builds beautifully on the whole front-of-stage atmosphere. Through actions, dramas, animated movies and even my growing collection of multichannel BD music discs, I preferred the added IIz height to rear-back channels every single time.

This also goes a long way to justify Audyssey's reasoning behind DSX, suggesting that added channels at the front are a whole lot better for the immersive effect of a film than more at the rear. And Audyssey DSX Height mode is every bit as clean and refined as Dolby IIz Height, and you can adjust the height effect in 10 per cent increments.

I settled for the absolute mid-way setting which offered the best compromise between the additional soundstage height and the front end becoming a little dislocated. But just like IIz Height, when DSX Height is added to TrueHD or DTS-HD soundtracks, the effect is uniformly positive and better overall than a standard configuration 7.1 channel set-up. Now that's already two revelations in one review.

Swapping speakers to reconfigure for Audyssey DSX Width mode is an unfortunate faff. It involves a complete re-set of the receiver from scratch, including re-measuring all the seating positions. And you can't store multiple configurations – so if you want to go back to Height set-up afterwards – it's another re-set job.

Audyssey DSX Width is just as impressive as DSX Height – albeit in a completely different way (well, dimension). Imagine moving your main speakers out about ten feet in either direction, which if your room is anything like mine would be in the garden, and then filling the void between those and the centre speaker with more main L/R sound. Having already had my flabber well and truly gasted by IIz and DSX Height, the DSX Width is another revelation. That's three in a day – too much for a man of my age.

Throughout Iron Man the whole front end soundstage is wider and more enveloping, but never spreads so far that it upsets the critical front end focus. Dialogue remains centre-centre but seems better-projected with more body, and the sheer number of speakers up front adds a greater sense of scale and dynamic impact. This just begs for even more gratuitous use of the volume knob and the Denon rises to the challenge without even a flinch.

Hope the 4810 continues and builds on the good work.. and allows for simultaneous front/widths/surround backs with an external power amp for the front L/Rspeakers without requiring any reconfiguration/re-setup like the 4310.

Quote:


But for all the flag waving and tooting trumpets, there's one huge snag: I don't want either IIz Height/DSX Height or DSX Width – I want both at the same time. Okay, the AVR-4310 clearly has no power amp modules left for nine-channel sound but a simple line-level output would have let you add an extra stereo power amplifier for the full DSX 9.1 experience. Ultimately, I would choose Dolby IIz Height with Audyssey DSX Width and rear-back channels as well. But I'm greedy.

I guess he would love the 4810
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post #281 of 4067 Old 09-23-2009, 02:31 PM
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Just saw the Denon 4810 listed on Amazon for sale and in Stock!
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post #282 of 4067 Old 09-23-2009, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dalepm View Post

Just saw the Denon 4810 listed on Amazon for sale and in Stock!

They only have the 4310 in stock.... the 4810 product page give a link to buy from a third party electronics dealer in NY... and if they did have it in stock, with a name like "brandnamez" I doubt they are an authorized dealer..... suspicious at best.
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post #283 of 4067 Old 09-23-2009, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

They only have the 4310 in stock.... the 4810 product page give a link to buy from a third party electronics dealer in NY... and if they did have it in stock, with a name like "brandnamez" I doubt they are an authorized dealer..... suspicious at best.

You only need to 'fix' the '3' with a little paint to make it into a '8'.. indeed suspicious. If you buy online make sure its from a authorized dealer esp. with denon.

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post #284 of 4067 Old 09-23-2009, 06:47 PM
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How much do you want from the 4810?

http://www.hemagazine.com/Dolby_Pro_...s_Audyssey_DSX
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post #285 of 4067 Old 09-23-2009, 10:38 PM
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thx Brian-HD for that interesting article =). interesting cause DTS didn't seem to have an answer... yet =P. but they can contain 2,000 channels? that's freakin' insane! lol

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post #286 of 4067 Old 09-24-2009, 08:07 PM
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Dear Valued Customer,

We are pleased to tell you that the following item(s) have just become available for shipment. You can order by clicking the link next to the item(s) you wish to receive.


Denon AVR-4810CI 9.3 Channel Home Theater Receiver - http://www.jr.com/product/productDet...=DNN_AVR4810CI


At the time of this mailing these items are in stock. Orders will be filled on a first-come, first-served basis.

Due to high volume sales, stock status changes frequently. If this item is not in stock at the time you wish to order it, you may submit an additional request and you will be notified when we receive our next shipment.

If you have any questions, please contact our customer service department using the information below.

Thank you once again for shopping at J&R Music And Computer World.
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post #287 of 4067 Old 09-24-2009, 08:22 PM
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Let the games begin!

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post #288 of 4067 Old 09-24-2009, 10:33 PM
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if only it were hdmi 1.4 for 3D

I'm sure next year's onkyos will have the full package for a great price though
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post #289 of 4067 Old 09-24-2009, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

How much do you want from the 4810?

http://www.hemagazine.com/Dolby_Pro_...s_Audyssey_DSX

Very interesting read........
I'm thinking with a 9.1 capable receiver/processor you'd want to use both height and width speakers, if possible, doing away with the rear/back surround speakers.
While I've used rear/back surround speakers for several years now in a 7.1
system, I've never really felt like the rear/back speakers added much if anything to the cinema experience.
This is an interesting turn in how our systems will be configured and enjoyed in the future.

dc

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post #290 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 12:19 AM
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Quote:


I'm thinking with a 9.1 capable receiver/processor you'd want to use both height and width speakers, if possible, doing away with the rear/back surround speakers.

with the 4810 you don't have to, just add a 2-ch amp for full 11.1

but, yes, Audyssey's research indicates that the surr.back channels are the least important speakers to add to a regular 5.1 setup (wides are most important, heights second, according to their research).

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post #291 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 01:09 AM
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I came across something interesting reading through the manuals for the 4810 and the Onkyo 5007.

According to the 5007's manual you CAN'T have both the WIDE and HEIGHT speakers active at the same time.
In other words the 5007 won't do 5.1+FW+FH.
It will do 7.1 (SB) + FW or FH (9.1).

Whereas the 4810 will let you do 5.1+FW+FH, omitting the Surround Back speakers.
Then if you add a 2 channel amp the 4810 will let you do 7.1 (SB) +FW+FH (11.1)

While this is very cool for the 4810,
it's very dissappointing for the 5007 and sort of confusing..... to me.

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post #292 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 08:41 AM
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will 4810 do 7.1 AND FW AND FH all @same time?

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post #293 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 09:15 AM
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With an external 2ch amp you can. The 4810 has 9 amps on-board plus the two add on you can do 11.1.
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post #294 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

I came across something interesting reading through the manuals for the 4810 and the Onkyo 5007.

According to the 5007's manual you CAN'T have both the WIDE and HEIGHT speakers active at the same time.

you JUST noticed that? have you not been following along with the action in the "Onkyo vs. Denon" thread?

Somebody figured this out a few weeks ago in that thread. None of the Onkyos can do HEIGHT + WIDE simultaneously. They are effectively "7.1 + 2" receivers, e.g. standard 7.1 plus 2 extra channels of your choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

will 4810 do 7.1 AND FW AND FH all @same time?

You aren't following along either???

The 4810 can do a full 11.1 setup (with an extra 2-ch amp) or you can configure the internal amps to run any 9.1 configuration. I pointed this out a few times in this thread already and even gave you page numbers in the manual!

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post #295 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you JUST noticed that? have you not been following along with the action in the "Onkyo vs. Denon" thread?

None of the Onkyos can do HEIGHT + WIDE simultaneously. They are effectively "7.1 + 2" receivers, e.g. standard 7.1 plus 2 extra channels of your choice.




You aren't following along either???

The 4810 can do a full 11.1 setup (with an extra 2-ch amp) or you can configure the internal amps to run any 9.1 configuration. I pointed this out a few times in this thread already and even gave you page numbers in the manual!

I guess I just assumed.......
What is up with that, the Onkyos not being able to do FH+FW?
The amps are in there.... it just doesn't make sense to me to have this limitation. The 4810 is looking better and better

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post #296 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 10:32 AM
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Uh, yeah, those last few posts were funny....that is the SINGLE reason I am following this thread. Having FH and FW is great and all, but I want them ALL at the SAME TIME!

I got my 805 from J&R because they were first to have it in stock too. Looks like they have a trend going. Still, I'll wait awhile this time so the price can come down a little. Maybe by Christmas......
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post #297 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

What is up with that, the Onkyos not being able to do FH+FW?
The amps are in there.... it just doesn't make sense to me to have this limitation.

who knows how they decide these things??

on the one hand, Onkyo does something that makes you say "why the heck didn't Denon think of that?" For example, any of the Onkyo DSX enabled units (even the lowly 7.1 TX-SR707) allows you to hook up ALL eleven potential speakers and run Audyssey on all of them. You can only do any seven at a time, but if you want to switch from [Standard 7.1] to [5.1 + WIDE] you can do it on-the-fly with a touch of a button on the remote.

On Denons (i.e. the $2000 AVR 4310CI) you would have to disconnect your speakers and re-run Audyssey to switch between WIDE and HEIGHT.


But on the other hand..... then Onkyo goes and does something silly like not allowing WIDE+HEIGHT operation at the same time, even in the flagship 5007! You can switch between [7.1+HEIGHT] and [7.1+WIDE] on the fly, but you can't do both at the same time??


I guess you are right about the 4810CI looking better -- it can do ANYTHING those of you who can afford it should have a lot of fun with that beast.

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post #298 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

who knows how they decide these things??

on the one hand, Onkyo does something that makes you say "why the heck didn't Denon think of that?" For example, any of the Onkyo DSX enabled units (even the lowly 7.1 TX-SR707) allows you to hook up ALL eleven potential speakers and run Audyssey on all of them. You can only do any seven at a time, but if you want to switch from [Standard 7.1] to [5.1 + WIDE] you can do it on-the-fly with a touch of a button on the remote.

On Denons (i.e. the $2000 AVR 4310CI) you would have to disconnect your speakers and re-run Audyssey to switch between WIDE and HEIGHT.


But on the other hand..... then Onkyo goes and does something silly like not allowing WIDE+HEIGHT operation at the same time, even in the flagship 5007! You can switch between [7.1+HEIGHT] and [7.1+WIDE] on the fly, but you can't do both at the same time??


I guess you are right about the 4810CI looking better -- it can do ANYTHING those of you who can afford it should have a lot of fun with that beast.

The Onkyo makes one wonder if DSX H+W could be a future firmware upgrade, it certainly seems to have all the peices in place. However the power of the DSP chips may not allow it, but I thought Denon and Onkyo were using the same chips???
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post #299 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 11:26 AM
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well, I'm not sure, because the problem may be a physical one (and not firmware correctable). I think the issue is that the HEIGHT/WIDE binding posts are physically connected to a single amplifier channel and then switched depending on the operation. I don't there's a way to re-wire the internals and allow the SURR.BACK amplifier channels to power the HEIGHT/WIDE binding posts.

Notice also that there are not even separate pre-outs for HEIGHT/WIDE; I think they share a single channel of processing/amplification in the internal topology of the unit.

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post #300 of 4067 Old 09-25-2009, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

well, I'm not sure, because the problem may be a physical one (and not firmware correctable). I think the issue is that the HEIGHT/WIDE binding posts are physically connected to a single amplifier channel and then switched depending on the operation. I don't there's a way to re-wire the internals and allow the SURR.BACK amplifier channels to power the HEIGHT/WIDE binding posts.

Notice also that there are not even separate pre-outs for HEIGHT/WIDE; I think they share a single channel of processing/amplification in the internal topology of the unit.


wtf....... this makes absolutely NO sense to me.
Why this limitation
Audyssey DSX is capable of doing both front height and front wides simultaneously so why not take advantage of it
I wonder if it has something to do with THX certification?

dc

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