Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 136 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4051 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
Someone will certainly tell you that a modern digital receiver with Audyssey XT32 will sound miles better than a 14 year old AVR (i.e. Denon AVR-4800).

However, take it from someone with the following: Denon AVP-A1HDCI (with Audyssey XT32), Denon AVR-4311CI (with Audyssey XT32) and a Denon AVR-5800 (not too much different than your AVR-4800)... A good amp section like in the AVR-4800 will often provide a more satisfying sound than a weaker amp + DSP/room equalization. An AVR-X4000 may indeed give you great sound, but based on my experience, that's not guaranteed, based on reading about similar experiences here at AVS for the past 12 years.

One thing is for sure, looking into an AVR-4810CI is not a wise use of money. Either go full-bore to a modern receiver (with the same quality as your AVR-4800), or try a "band aid" approach for ~$300 from DVDO.
Why would the 4810CI not be a wise use of money? It's only about $200 more than getting that HDMI Switcher from DVDO. The only thing that it wouldn't have is 4k or 3d support since it uses HDMI 1.3

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told (From HDMI's site somewhere) you can get HDMI 1.4 features using a 'High-Speed' HDMI cable with a 1.3 port. It's just that you won't get the Ethernet channel. Another reason why I would just get the 4810CI.
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post #4052 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by franco244 View Post
Why would the 4810CI not be a wise use of money? It's only about $200 more than getting that HDMI Switcher from DVDO. The only thing that it wouldn't have is 4k or 3d support since it uses HDMI 1.3

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told (From HDMI's site somewhere) you can get HDMI 1.4 features using a 'High-Speed' HDMI cable with a 1.3 port. It's just that you won't get the Ethernet channel. Another reason why I would just get the 4810CI.
Don't worry about HDMI 1.3 vs. 1.4. There is no situation where you could exploit any difference.

The HDMI switcher is only $281 from Amazon, where a 4810CI is going to be closer to $1000 via eBay. Sure you're getting Audyssey XT (not XT32) with the 4810CI, which is not really good at all, IMO.

So for at least $500 for a 4810CI solution, what are you getting/wanting?

Now if you want to spring for a 4520CI (now is a good time to buy), then that is a no brainer. Better features, better tech, XT32 + analog section should easily better your AVR-4800.
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post #4053 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 08:08 AM
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^^
You may want to ask for comments in the 4520CI Owner's thread (current successor to the 4810CI) as there are several former 4810CI owner's who were impressed with the improvement in audio quality provided by the more advanced Audyssey Mult EQ XT32.


The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread
XT to XT32 is a huge leap. I had regular XT on my (pre-upgrade) Denon AVP-A1HDCI as well as my AVR-4806CI. They both sounded so bad to me, I turned Audyssey off altogether.
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post #4054 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by franco244 View Post
Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told (From HDMI's site somewhere) you can get HDMI 1.4 features using a 'High-Speed' HDMI cable with a 1.3 port. It's just that you won't get the Ethernet channel. Another reason why I would just get the 4810CI.
This is not true. Although an HDMI 1.3 device can pass 720p 3D (eg. PS3 games or ESPN), in order to pass full 1080p 3D from a Blu Ray player, you need an HDMI 1.4 device. A High Speed cable simply allows up to a 1080p signal to pass ... it's the device itself that determines "what" can be passed.

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post #4055 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 09:26 AM
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This is not true. Although an HDMI 1.3 device can pass 720p 3D (eg. PS3 games or ESPN), in order to pass full 1080p 3D from a Blu Ray player, you need an HDMI 1.4 device. A High Speed cable simply allows up to a 1080p signal to pass ... it's the device itself that determines "what" can be passed.
That's what I assumed. Thanks for the confirmation, jdsmoothie!

As for now I think I'm going to wait and see what they announce for the new X series, assuming that will be the flagship series of theirs, and see what happens from there.

Thank you for all the help guys!
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post #4056 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 09:29 AM
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Don't worry about HDMI 1.3 vs. 1.4. There is no situation where you could exploit any difference.
Sorry to quote myself here, but I meant to add the word "cable" to the HDMI sentence above!
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post #4057 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 09:56 AM
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@franco244 -- here are my thoughts...

As I mentioned before, you are only using two speakers with extremely high sensitivity in a pretty moderate sized room. It is likely that you have never used more than 10 watts per channel. So in that respect, the idea of "beefy amps" making things sound better is, frankly, rubbish. Now, as a 2ch guy you may appreciate the superior fidelity and analog section of a higher end component, that's fine, but don't think you actually need a lot of power. You don't.

As others seem to agree, the 4810 is a poor expenditure of money. I will generalize and say there are two things I recommend you avoid -- first, don't buy a very old HDMI receiver with an early (pre 1.3) version of HDMI, like the 4806. With technology advancing rapidly you are just asking for HDMI conflicts. Second, don't buy an expensive receiver without XT32. That's why the 4810 isn't a great idea -- you are still going to splash big money on it but without getting the newest features OR the better calibration DSP. If you go that route a used/demo 4311 is a much better idea than the 4810. And again, consider the warranty issue. Your 4800 is probably chugging along fine but newer receivers are more like computers and HDMI boards, video chips, network features etc. are more likely to go bad than older, simpler units.

I happen to agree with you though that buying an expensive HDMI switch isn't a great idea. I will throw another recommendation, if you don't want to spend a lot of money and you have a propensity towards big beefy 40lb receivers and feel like a lower msrp, 25lb Chinese-made model isn't going to make you happy... the 3808CI was an extremely well reviewed and popular model. It offers a lot of beef, very high build quality, has HDMI 1.3 with plenty of inputs, and can be had for $300-400 used or so these days. It would be a much better buy than the 4806 (newer HDMI, newer features) or the 4810 (same XT version of Audyssey and you won't use the extra features like 11ch capability) if you want to go used and beefy.

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post #4058 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 10:21 AM
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@batpig Thank you for this info!

While I am only using two channels at the moment, in the future I would like to expand to at least a 5.1 setup (hopefully within the next year or two.) So that is something else to consider. So maybe at this point, it would be best to hold off until 5.1 or more is a viable option and decide on a receiver then?
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post #4059 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by franco244 View Post
That's what I assumed. Thanks for the confirmation, jdsmoothie!

As for now I think I'm going to wait and see what they announce for the new X series, assuming that will be the flagship series of theirs, and see what happens from there.

Thank you for all the help guys!
Not sure what you mean "announce the new X series"? The lower "X" series have already been announced and the new flagship replacement for the 4520CI is the X7200W which basically just adds Wifi, Bluetooth, and Atmos capability.

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post #4060 of 4073 Old 07-22-2014, 01:41 PM
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Not sure what you mean "announce the new X series"? The lower "X" series have already been announced and the new flagship replacement for the 4520CI is the X7200W which basically just adds Wifi, Bluetooth, and Atmos capability.
Oh well never mind then! I saw a thread on here somewhere for the new AVR's this year and I guess it just wasn't updated.
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post #4061 of 4073 Old 09-06-2014, 07:37 AM
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Ah ... I just saw the 4810 for $400 on craigslist and started a thread asking if that was a good deal ... Now that I'm reading this thread, it seems like it might not be ... ?

My current setup is a Denon 3802 fed 7.1 analog from an Oppo BDP-93. I'm running three monoblocks for the front channels from the Denon's pre-outs and letting the Denon amp the rest ...

I have a 3D projector but the Oppo has separate hdmi outs for video and audio so I could run hdmi audio to the 4810 and 3D hmdi video straight to my projector ...

Would this be a good upgrade for me?
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post #4062 of 4073 Old 09-06-2014, 09:38 AM
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Ah ... I just saw the 4810 for $400 on craigslist and started a thread asking if that was a good deal ... Now that I'm reading this thread, it seems like it might not be ... ?

My current setup is a Denon 3802 fed 7.1 analog from an Oppo BDP-93. I'm running three monoblocks for the front channels from the Denon's pre-outs and letting the Denon amp the rest ...

I have a 3D projector but the Oppo has separate hdmi outs for video and audio so I could run hdmi audio to the 4810 and 3D hmdi video straight to my projector ...

Would this be a good upgrade for me?
Try not to cross post, please.

The 4810 was a good AVR, but it doesn't sound like you'd get any benefit from it. You're running HDMI straight to a projector, and using outboard amps already. Which means you're basically upgrading the "pre-amp" section of your system, and adding Audyssey XT room correction. I personally think regular Audyssey XT sucks, so if you're going to upgrade, might as well find a used AVR-4311CI for ~$800. Then you could at least utilize the HDMI 3D switching to your projector, as well as take advantage of of Audyssey XT32.
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post #4063 of 4073 Old 09-06-2014, 10:05 AM
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Try not to cross post, please.

The 4810 was a good AVR, but it doesn't sound like you'd get any benefit from it. You're running HDMI straight to a projector, and using outboard amps already. Which means you're basically upgrading the "pre-amp" section of your system, and adding Audyssey XT room correction. I personally think regular Audyssey XT sucks, so if you're going to upgrade, might as well find a used AVR-4311CI for ~$800. Then you could at least utilize the HDMI 3D switching to your projector, as well as take advantage of of Audyssey XT32.
Thanks for responding, SamS! And sorry about the cross-post.

Is there no benefit from my switching from 7.1 analog out to HDMI? My 3802 has no HDMI connections ...

And I'm having some issues with my external amps, which means I may go back to using the denon's internal amps ...

Do those two factors change your equation? Or do you still think it would be better for me to work with what I have for now and pick up something better down the road?
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post #4064 of 4073 Old 09-06-2014, 10:33 AM
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Thanks for responding, SamS! And sorry about the cross-post.

Is there no benefit from my switching from 7.1 analog out to HDMI? My 3802 has no HDMI connections ...

And I'm having some issues with my external amps, which means I may go back to using the denon's internal amps ...

Do those two factors change your equation? Or do you still think it would be better for me to work with what I have for now and pick up something better down the road?
If you amps are acting up, then it's a slightly better value proposition. As mentioned to you in the other thread, if it comes with all accessories, box, mic, remote, packing material, it's probably OK for $400. You could probably sell it down the road and not be out any money. I still think the real step up in functionality and performance for you is something like an AVR-4311CI. The 4810CI is stop-gap, at best. I had a 4806CI, which is very similar. Great receiver, but the 4806CI/4810CI got outdated quickly, and they were expensive units.
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post #4065 of 4073 Old 09-08-2014, 08:59 AM
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If you amps are acting up, then it's a slightly better value proposition. As mentioned to you in the other thread, if it comes with all accessories, box, mic, remote, packing material, it's probably OK for $400. You could probably sell it down the road and not be out any money. I still think the real step up in functionality and performance for you is something like an AVR-4311CI. The 4810CI is stop-gap, at best. I had a 4806CI, which is very similar. Great receiver, but the 4806CI/4810CI got outdated quickly, and they were expensive units.
I've read about the problems with some recent Onkyos, but ... there is a TX NR 18 for sale on craigslist for $400. It has XT32 ... should I consider that?
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post #4066 of 4073 Old 09-08-2014, 09:01 AM
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I've read about the problems with some recent Onkyos, but ... there is a TX NR 18 for sale on craigslist for $400. It has XT32 ... should I consider that?
Seems risky. Your call. Personally, I would not.
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post #4067 of 4073 Old 09-08-2014, 08:57 PM
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As luck would have it, that Onkyo was being sold by a fellow AVS member. Did not know this until it was too late. Just missed it. Oh well. Back to the drawing board ...
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post #4068 of 4073 Old 02-25-2015, 06:35 PM
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This is probably the wrong string...
I have a 4810 as well as a few others but I too a curious as to how to update the firmware, streaming audio and connecting the .3 in the system.
I've had only .2's thus far and I do not have the cd.
Thanks in advance.
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post #4069 of 4073 Old 04-30-2015, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
-- here are my thoughts...

As I mentioned before, you are only using two speakers with extremely high sensitivity in a pretty moderate sized room. It is likely that you have never used more than 10 watts per channel. So in that respect, the idea of "beefy amps" making things sound better is, frankly, rubbish. Now, as a 2ch guy you may appreciate the superior fidelity and analog section of a higher end component, that's fine, but don't think you actually need a lot of power. You don't.

As others seem to agree, the 4810 is a poor expenditure of money. I will generalize and say there are two things I recommend you avoid -- first, don't buy a very old HDMI receiver with an early (pre 1.3) version of HDMI, like the 4806. With technology advancing rapidly you are just asking for HDMI conflicts. Second, don't buy an expensive receiver without XT32. That's why the 4810 isn't a great idea -- you are still going to splash big money on it but without getting the newest features OR the better calibration DSP. If you go that route a used/demo 4311 is a much better idea than the 4810. And again, consider the warranty issue. Your 4800 is probably chugging along fine but newer receivers are more like computers and HDMI boards, video chips, network features etc. are more likely to go bad than older, simpler units.

I happen to agree with you though that buying an expensive HDMI switch isn't a great idea. I will throw another recommendation, if you don't want to spend a lot of money and you have a propensity towards big beefy 40lb receivers and feel like a lower msrp, 25lb Chinese-made model isn't going to make you happy... the 3808CI was an extremely well reviewed and popular model. It offers a lot of beef, very high build quality, has HDMI 1.3 with plenty of inputs, and can be had for $300-400 used or so these days. It would be a much better buy than the 4806 (newer HDMI, newer features) or the 4810 (same XT version of Audyssey and you won't use the extra features like 11ch capability) if you want to go used and beefy.
You guys certainly know more than I do on commercial audio but I have a Denon AVR 4810CI, a Onkyo TX-NR709 and and HK AVR3600. The user interface is best on the Onkyo, the low end sub reproduction is surprisingly good on the HK. But the the Denon is unsurpassed in sound and versatility compared to the others I have. Granted the HK is a 2010 and the Onkyo does have 4k even though it's not "new" either. The Onk was purchased new in 2011. I don't plan on replacing my receivers the way GM wanted us to replace their cars years ago. Planned obsolescence is planning to loose market share and customers. The HK and Onk were about $900.00. They both weigh about 36lbs.. If I factored that out by a weight/ cost ration that would mean that my cars should cost $90,000.00. With the Denon it was quite a bit more. The Denon cost me almost $3k new. That would be a $234k car.
My point is that all of this "stuff" is just stuff. The 1.4 vs 1.3. 4k vs 1080p (which 4k requires new everything because there is little margin in televisions).
I say get a receiver that sounds great.

PS: it took several attempts to post this because of a smiley face and a link to the original post I was quoting.
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post #4070 of 4073 Old 05-04-2015, 12:55 PM
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I created a separate thread for this, but found this dedicated thread and figured I might be better off posting here. This is my dilemma:

I have a home theater system built around a Pioneer SC-1222-K receiver. A friend of mine who is into much higher-end audio than me offered me (for free!) his Denon AVR-4810CI, which he recently replaced.

The Denon, I know, is a much higher-end receiver, originally retailing I think for around $3,000, whereas the Pioneer retailed for $1,100 and I bought from Newegg for around $600. The Denon is also a Class AB receiver, while the Pioneer is a Class D receiver. (My friend definitely prefers, as I think do most audiophiles, the big, heavy, Class AB approach.)

The Pioneer is currently driving JBL ES speakers (two ES80 towers, ES25C center, ES10 surrounds, and an ES250 sub). It has served me well, and has the right mix of modern features for my set-up, including built-in Airplay. I have a blu-ray player, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, and Xbox 360 connected to the system.

So here's my question --

The Denon would win most every comparison hands-down, I expect ... Audyssey MultiEQ vs. MCACC, 140 vs 110 watts per channel, 9.3 vs. 7.2 channel, etc. ... but ...

... I believe the Denon first came out in 2010, while the Pioneer came out in 2012. I know one feature I'll be missing is built-in Airplay (not a deal-killer, but nice for second room speakers; I've found that most receivers can't take audio from HDMI sources like the Apple TV for second room) ...

Any other issues that I should expect to see?

I'm a little hesitant to take my whole system apart, which is working well, only to run into some issue that I didn't anticipate when trying to sub in an older receiver. On the other hand, the Denon is a great piece of equipment and I think I'd probably be foolish to turn down the chance for such a substantial upgrade. (If I do go with the Denon, I will probably add a couple more ES10 speakers for front height channels.)

Any thoughts or advice greatly appreciated.

Just to be clear, there's no cost factored into this decision -- the receiver is being offered for free -- it's simply a question of time and convenience, weighing higher quality amplification vs. newer features. (Oh, I should probably add that I have no plans to go 3D or 4K with my system any time soon...)
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post #4071 of 4073 Old 05-04-2015, 01:26 PM
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^^
The 2014 Denon X3100W can pass HDMI audio to Zone 2.

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post #4072 of 4073 Old 05-08-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
The 2014 Denon X3100W can pass HDMI audio to Zone 2.
Thanks -- that's helpful to know, and would be a very useful feature to me. That said, at this point I'm not in the market for a new receiver, just trying to decide whether I'll sub the Denon in for my Pioneer, and what the advantages/disadvantages to going that route might be. My friend also gave me an Odyssey Stratos 2x150 watt amp to power the front L +R channels, which I could use with either receiver.
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post #4073 of 4073 Old 05-30-2015, 04:50 PM
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I posted in another part of this forum yesterday. I need help. Yesterday I was adjusting my speaker set up. After set up I turned on multi-channel. The receiver shut off and an electrical burning smell arose. I noticed that a random speaker wire had touched the top of the receiver.
The receiver turned off. I turned it own. I've tried resetting it. It will not stay on.

Does anyone know if I have blown the receiver or if there is a way of fixing this?
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