Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 4067 Old 10-11-2009, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jjmbxkb View Post

Hi, is this following a legimate seller? Anyone have experience with them? Thanks.

http://www.centraldigital.com/Product/?10907033.

When in doubt, check www.resellerratings.com
Kind of hard to get a read on this one
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post #452 of 4067 Old 10-11-2009, 10:06 AM
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Filmmixer,

My bad on the Ratatouille. I saw 6.1 on the front panel of the Denon (left side that shows inputs) and then being new to all these new configurations used the wrong words. Regardless, it sounded a lot better than how my B&K processed the surrounds and such. Now that I have the capability to play all these new formats, It'll take a while to figure it all out.

On another note, I have a question perhaps you can (or others solve). I used to use the Digital Optical out on my Tivo 3 to my B&K receiver. Now I am using full on HDMI audio out on the Tivo and set to Dolby Digital output (In Tivo Audio Settings). Last night I was watching Netflix streaming a Lost episode. I now only receive Stereo in to the Denon. I then have to use Dolby Digital PLx Cinema to get a processed 7 channel effect. I may have always just received Stereo as I haven't really used the Netflix streaming service all that much.

Am I missing something on settings on the Tivo 3 or Denon? Does Tivo only allow Stereo for Netflix material streamed through the HDMI? I'm confused here and need some direction on if or how I can solve this. It appears you know a great deal about these issues. Thanks
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post #453 of 4067 Old 10-11-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmbxkb View Post

Hi, is this following a legimate seller? Anyone have experience with them? Thanks.

http://www.centraldigital.com/Product/?10907033.

Can't vouch for his "legit" status, but definitely not authorized.
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post #454 of 4067 Old 10-11-2009, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Filmmixer,

My bad on the Ratatouille. I saw 6.1 on the front panel of the Denon (left side that shows inputs) and then being new to all these new configurations used the wrong words. Regardless, it sounded a lot better than how my B&K processed the surrounds and such. Now that I have the capability to play all these new formats, It'll take a while to figure it all out.

On another note, I have a question perhaps you can (or others solve). I used to use the Digital Optical out on my Tivo 3 to my B&K receiver. Now I am using full on HDMI audio out on the Tivo and set to Dolby Digital output (In Tivo Audio Settings). Last night I was watching Netflix streaming a Lost episode. I now only receive Stereo in to the Denon. I then have to use Dolby Digital PLx Cinema to get a processed 7 channel effect. I may have always just received Stereo as I haven't really used the Netflix streaming service all that much.

Am I missing something on settings on the Tivo 3 or Denon? Does Tivo only allow Stereo for Netflix material streamed through the HDMI? I'm confused here and need some direction on if or how I can solve this. It appears you know a great deal about these issues. Thanks

Unless they've changed it since launch, they are only streaming in Dolby Surround Encoded 2.0.

With my Xbox 360 I get the same thing.
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post #455 of 4067 Old 10-11-2009, 09:45 PM
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dowdu,

There are some very big differences between the 4310 but many of them are not needed/or wanted by most users. The biggest reason for me to get the 4810 over the 4310 was the Free Assign feature of the Amps and the capacity to do 11.3 over 9.1. If you do not need want this, the 4310 looks the far better value. As far as I can tell how the two units process most audio is the same with the exception of the AL 24 plus enhanced ability.

There are a lot of other bells on the 4810 but many are not of a lot of value to me (I prefer network hard wiring everything over wireless, any day).

Oh well, The Chassis is a bit different.....
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post #456 of 4067 Old 10-12-2009, 07:38 AM
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I thought the 4310 does not allow for 9.1 output with externalamps.
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post #457 of 4067 Old 10-12-2009, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post


There are a lot of other bells on the 4810 but many are not of a lot of value to me (I prefer network hard wiring everything over wireless, any day).

Off Topic - Wow, I thought I was the only one that still did hard-wiring in this wonderful world of 'wireless everything'! I have a Linksys dual N-band wireless router and the N-band card in my laptop to take advantage of the 5Ghz bandwidth (I get 260 Mbs, sweet) excellent when I'm in my backyard, but I still have a 50 ft. Cat. 6 ethernet cable run behind my couches and plugged into the laptop when I'm in the Living room. My printer has wireless capabilities but I have it hard-wired to the router, and now the 4810 will be hard-wired to the router.

I find it much more reliable when I'm downloading massive amounts of music files (I'm a DJ), the worst thing is losing the wireless connection in the middle of a download. Ugh! I guess I'm just old-skool.

"Life is short...play hard"
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post #458 of 4067 Old 10-12-2009, 10:11 AM
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General Custer. You are correct. You only have 7.1 Pre-Outs on the 4310. As stated, you also don't get all the flexibility with Amps and Output assigns. I don't know the 4310 personally. I couldn't download the 4310 manual for some reason but the 4310 and 4810 are very different. I still probably would agree that the 4310 is a better value but is very much not the same unit as the 4810. Just take a look at the back panel photos and you'll see too many differences to attempt to list. One big difference is the quality of speaker connects. I have a budget, just like others and therefore, I believe the 4810 has many of the new feautures and flexibility lacking in the flagship line (5308) but still somewhat affordable. So far, I am impressed with the 4810 and very much feeling like an idiot as I try and get through understanding everything this receiver can do. This unit gives you a lot of feedback and understanding all the audio formats is new to me.

Someone else who knows far more than me (Easily accomplished), feel free to answer the question on the 4310 or just go check out that thread.
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post #459 of 4067 Old 10-12-2009, 10:45 AM
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I too get frustrated with Wireless. I have three WAP's in the house but also have every room Cat-5e wired to a 24 port Gigabit switch. It's in the laundry room and the little buggers fan is loud. I guess I'll be switching the switch out at some point. With two WHS servers and multiple PC's wireless is just too flaky. Yes, it works most of the time but when it drops and I have to help my non tech wife and have her go in and re-connect, she gets annoyed and of course doesn't care to learn how to fix it.

With my current hard wired 4810, the Denon upgraded its firmware in about 12 minutes. I would have a nightmare attempting this wireless (which Denon does not recommend trying).
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

If you do make the decision to go down that road, your biggest concern should be the reputation and feedback of the seller.

Even bigger would be what this does to the HT biz as a whole. The American economy is probably not helped either if the seller is making only a penny on the deal (an exaggeration I know).
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post #461 of 4067 Old 10-12-2009, 11:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I too get frustrated with Wireless. I have three WAP's in the house but also have every room Cat-5e wired to a 24 port Gigabit switch.

When I redo the room the my "HT" is in I am putting an old Linksys router that the wireless has died as a switch right into the rack. A Receiver, Blu-ray, and 2 DVR's will fill all the ports real fast. Heck I'll probably leave one of the DVR wires extra long for hooking the laptop too.

I have a 50 ft cable hooked up to my router in the office now and when a friend was trying to log his laptop in for a poker game I pulled it out as it was faster than trying to remember/get the key to log in wirelessly. They were some adult beverages involved as well.
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post #462 of 4067 Old 10-12-2009, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PoliteNYC View Post

Off Topic - Wow, I thought I was the only one that still did hard-wiring in this wonderful world of 'wireless everything'! I have a Linksys dual N-band wireless router and the N-band card in my laptop to take advantage of the 5Ghz bandwidth (I get 260 Mbs, sweet) excellent when I'm in my backyard, but I still have a 50 ft. Cat. 6 ethernet cable run behind my couches and plugged into the laptop when I'm in the Living room. My printer has wireless capabilities but I have it hard-wired to the router, and now the 4810 will be hard-wired to the router.

I find it much more reliable when I'm downloading massive amounts of music files (I'm a DJ), the worst thing is losing the wireless connection in the middle of a download. Ugh! I guess I'm just old-skool.

More and more devices into a HT can and will need internet, far from all of them have wifi so you will end up putting in a cable and a switch anyway. Just do it put a 16port switch in your av rack and be done with it. The topic has come up on the avp thread several times and 99% of the people use the wired connection and have 3 or 4 devices that need/want internet/ethernet anyway so they all put in a switch and turned all the wifi signals off. Also denon advices to use a hardwired connection during firmware updates.

Daniel.

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post #463 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 07:42 AM
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Seems to me that receivers are actually the one device lagging in my world in terms of wifi. My Tivo and PS3 are good to go. If (no, when) I ever do a media server I can see possibly wanting that wired...but maybe not.

Pulled the trigger on an ebay listing this morning. If anyone wants to know how the experience went, PM me in a few days. I'm trying to get a Squaretrade warranty on it, but am getting an error.

So, if I'm currently running HDMI directly from my PS3 and Tivo to my Samsung LCD, and will want to now run through my Denon, do I just need two more male-to-male HDMI cables? Thanks for any advice on that because I'm hoping to order them today from monoprice to get them in time for the delivery of the receiver
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post #464 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

So, if I'm currently running HDMI directly from my PS3 and Tivo to my Samsung LCD, and will want to now run through my Denon, do I just need two more male-to-male HDMI cables? Thanks for any advice on that because I'm hoping to order them today from monoprice to get them in time for the delivery of the receiver

Wouldn't you only need one (to go to the TV from the Denon?)

One other great thing to buy at Monoprice are the HDMI Saver Cables... takes a lot of the strain off the connections.... I highly recommend them.

HDMI Port Savers
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post #465 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 08:13 AM
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Also, remember your TV just became a monitor. All input switching will be done in the AVR. So, if you have a universal remote, you will need to reprogram accordingly.

ED
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post #466 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 08:14 AM
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FilmMixer - Very interesting on the port savers - thanks.

I'm coming from an ancient Yamaha RX-V795, so I'm not fully able to visualize the paths, but, yes, obviously don't need two out of the receiver for the Tivo and PS3. Just the video out feed. Duh...thanks.

citico - Yeah, no kidding on the remote. I'm going to have to redo my Logitech Harmony 880 - fun!
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post #467 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

Seems to me that receivers are actually the one device lagging in my world in terms of wifi. My Tivo and PS3 are good to go. If (no, when) I ever do a media server I can see possibly wanting that wired...but maybe not.

If your devices are all closeby than either create 1 wifi bridge or a direct cable. to me having 4 or 5 wifi devices trying to access your AP doesn't make any sense. Remember all this wifi can also effect your audio/video devices in unwanted ways and its less stable.

But to each his own, my point more was that its not just one device anymore but some kind of hub makes sense since changes are high you will have several.

Daniel.

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post #468 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 09:16 AM
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OK, I hooked up my PC through the Denon 4810 and then through the HDMI hook up on my Sony VPL-VW100 projector. So far.... So good. Now, when I go in to Cataylst Control Center CCC on the PC, I see the Denon 4810 recognized but showing as a Generic Monitor. I get 1080P pass through to the Projector but I now have a rather large black area surrounding the Desktop of about 8 inches each way on a 110" Diagonal screen. I can correct this by zooming the projector but then I have to recorrect when switching back to the Tivo. I can't go in to CCC and adjust like I was able to before.

I know this encompasses a whole lot more than 4810 setup but, does anyone have a clue as to what I can set to get the thing correct sized on the screen. Be it Denon, PC, or Projector?

I don't seem to have the same problem when I use the DVI in on the Sony projector but then I get a big blank screen for the Panasonic Blu Ray player and Tivo on the Sony DVI in. I am way out of my league here, but could this be HDCP issues or something else. I never had this problem with my clunky HDMI switch I had jury rigged before.

If this is all too weird, anyone have an idea where I can go to get advice?
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post #469 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 06:24 PM
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Well I picked up my 4810 from FedEx tonight and have it hooked up. It immediately selected the TiVo input when I turned it on, that was nice. I need to take some time to eat dinner so at least I can watch TV. Then I'll get into the nitty gritty.

This thing is a beast, may not be as heavy as some, but it's not petite. I'm not a big fan of the remote. Seems cheesy at best. No worries, I'll be using a Harmony. I'm hoping to get hold of batpig's codes, but Logitech isn't being helpful. Their e-mail service has been down for weeks and I'm out of the initial 30 day support period. After over an hour on hold I spoke with someone who told me it'll be $29.99 for support. Woohoo!. I told him that was ridiculous and he's sending my request to tier 2, we'll see what happens.
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post #470 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 06:48 PM
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Looking forward to your thoughts on it, Keith! I may have missed something in another thread. Why do you need support on your Harmony for the 4810, and which one are you using?
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post #471 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

Looking forward to your thoughts on it, Keith! I may have missed something in another thread. Why do you need support on your Harmony for the 4810, and which one are you using?

Batpig appears to have a real good set of IR codes, more than what Logitech keeps in their database. They can copy codes from one account to another, if they wish. For the time being I'll have to stick with what they got and see what happens. I'm going to look around and see what other options I might have to get more discrete codes.
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post #472 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

More and more devices into a HT can and will need internet, far from all of them have wifi so you will end up putting in a cable and a switch anyway. Just do it put a 16port switch in your av rack and be done with it. The topic has come up on the avp thread several times and 99% of the people use the wired connection and have 3 or 4 devices that need/want internet/ethernet anyway so they all put in a switch and turned all the wifi signals off. Also denon advices to use a hardwired connection during firmware updates.

Daniel.

Yup, great advice. My little Linksys wireless router has a 4-port hub that is so inadequate for all the connections I envision when all is said and done, so a 16 port gig switch needs to go on the master purchase spreadsheet.

I posed some questions on the AVP thread a couple of weeks ago (I plan on getting a POA) and I noticed some folks complaining about their AVPs getting 'bricked' during firmware updates. I'm thinking that's the worst possible thing that can happen to these receivers? Well, next to spilling a can of cola in the grill. I will defintely do firmware updates via ethernet.

"Life is short...play hard"
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post #473 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I too get frustrated with Wireless. I have three WAP's in the house but also have every room Cat-5e wired to a 24 port Gigabit switch. It's in the laundry room and the little buggers fan is loud. I guess I'll be switching the switch out at some point. With two WHS servers and multiple PC's wireless is just too flaky. Yes, it works most of the time but when it drops and I have to help my non tech wife and have her go in and re-connect, she gets annoyed and of course doesn't care to learn how to fix it.

With my current hard wired 4810, the Denon upgraded its firmware in about 12 minutes. I would have a nightmare attempting this wireless (which Denon does not recommend trying).

Nice wiring setup!

What Wha? Wha? There's a firmware update already? It's only been out 2 weeks! Geez Louise! I need to get on the ball!

"Life is short...play hard"
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post #474 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 08:48 PM
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Yep, firmware already, and it takes a bit to run.

I got an 8 port switch for my AV rack, and it's full. Receiver, TiVo, blu-ray, HD-DVD, squeezebox, XBox, Xbox 360 and the uplink to the router. I've also got a Linksys WRT-54GL wireless router, and ever since I flashed that with dd-wrt I've found it to be much, much more reliable. It's rock solid now. Still whatever I can I wire up just to be safe.
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post #475 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 11:20 PM
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I currently own a Onkyo 905, but it was just giving me too much problems. The HDMI ports will stop working and the display will freeze. I didn't buy it new, it was refurbished, but still had warranty. Onkyo customer service sucks and at this point, I rather get a new system (I will sending the Onkyo to get repair and once I get it back it is going on eBay). I bought a Denon 4308ci from onecall.com for $1300.00 new (weekend sale) But now I am wondering if I should wait for the 4810ci. I have never own a Denon before, so asking for advice which would be greatly be appreciated.
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post #476 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 11:27 PM
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Well, Since no one gave advice on the DVI connection, I did a little fiddling. Here is what I learned. For myself and anyone considering the 4810. OK..... You have to follow the signal path as a non techie attempts to explain.

From my ATI 4800 series GPU in my PC, I have to go DVI out to a custom ATI HDMI dongle. This allows the 7.1 PCM signal to get to the Denon as well as Video, then I go from the Denon to the Sony Projector on a 30ft high grade (I know it's digital and therefore "High grade" is kind of a marketing gimmick.) HDMI cable. I also have my Tivo and PannyBD30 Blu Ray player going to the Denon via HDMI.

If I plug into the HDMI in on the Projector, all three sources fire up, albeit with the PC connection funky (See above post). If I then add yet another HDMI to DVI dongle (Cheapie brand) and then plug in to the DVI in on the Sony projector, I get signal from the transmutated PC connection but intermittent from the Tivo and dead from the Blu Ray.

So, who cares? Well, I do but perhaps others do as well if the Denon does not send a 30ft plus HDMI/DVI signal well. I will buy a better grade HDMI to DVI dongle and attempt a connection because based on the intermittent connection, I may be able to solve this with a minutely better cable dongle but I have little faith. The DVI in (of the projector) supports a heck of a lot more video signal types than the HDMI in and I'd prefer utilizing the DVI in.

Again, I am really not that great at advanced cabling but I would appreciate any thoughts here. Oh, one other thing. My Projector only supports 1080i/24FPS through the RGB inputs. It does not do this through either HDMI or DVI. Is this weird, old technology or just a fluke of Sony? Frankly, my brains about to blow on all this stuff and I'm not even convinced this 24fps thing is worth anything but my Blu Ray player will do it and I was just curious as I try and figure this very com[lex stuff out.

It was easier when my equipment definitively did not do all the new formats/codecs/ and high tech whammy stuff.
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post #477 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

Yep, firmware already, and it takes a bit to run.

I got an 8 port switch for my AV rack, and it's full. Receiver, TiVo, blu-ray, HD-DVD, squeezebox, XBox, Xbox 360 and the uplink to the router. I've also got a Linksys WRT-54GL wireless router, and ever since I flashed that with dd-wrt I've found it to be much, much more reliable. It's rock solid now. Still whatever I can I wire up just to be safe.

It's funny, with the new 4810, I just filled up my 8 port gigabit switch in the rack. It connects to the 24 port switch upstairs. Who'd a thunk it? I guess my advice is you can never have too many gigabit connections.
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post #478 of 4067 Old 10-13-2009, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoliteNYC View Post

I posed some questions on the AVP thread a couple of weeks ago (I plan on getting a POA) and I noticed some folks complaining about their AVPs getting 'bricked' during firmware updates. I'm thinking that's the worst possible thing that can happen to these receivers? Well, next to spilling a can of cola in the grill. I will defintely do firmware updates via ethernet.

There are no bricked AVP's, we had 1 person who could not finish the update and we send out a warning on the thread so everybody stopped. It seemed there was a problem with either their servers or his part of the internet for a few hours, later it was fixed and we all upgraded again. The only bricked units i know was when denon put wrong files online for the 4310 a few months ago. Be careful with claims like this before you know it people will stop buying denon's simply because of having a very good update system !!!. I do think its not a good idea todo a update before you test the unit always first try and test the basic operation of the unit and only after a few days do a firmware update this way you have a good idea if any problems pop up its software vs hardware.

You can reset the unit most of the time and it will retry the loading it seems denon even inproved this a little now but fact is bricking is possible but changes are very low if you use a wired connection that has been proven stable for you.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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post #479 of 4067 Old 10-14-2009, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

So, who cares? Well, I do but perhaps others do as well if the Denon does not send a 30ft plus HDMI/DVI signal well. I will buy a better grade HDMI to DVI dongle and attempt a connection because based on the intermittent connection, I may be able to solve this with a minutely better cable dongle but I have little faith. The DVI in (of the projector) supports a heck of a lot more video signal types than the HDMI in and I'd prefer utilizing the DVI in.

Always stay digital if you can, remember hdmi sucks , the signal needs to be relayed from device to device and not all of them have the same quality of hdmi receivers and transmitters. Some transmitters are just stronger than others so adding any active hdmi device can either help or work against you. Ive found the upper denon's to be 'ok' in signal strength but with any cable over 15ft testing is the only way to make sure all is ok over 15ft cables and devices do matter (sadly). The strongest device i own is my external scaler (dvdo vp50pro) it 'solved' several problems in the past if i placed it before long runs.

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post #480 of 4067 Old 10-14-2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Always stay digital if you can, remember hdmi sucks , the signal needs to be relayed from device to device and not all of them have the same quality of hdmi receivers and transmitters. Some transmitters are just stronger than others so adding any active hdmi device can either help or work against you. Ive found the upper denon's to be 'ok' in signal strength but with any cable over 15ft testing is the only way to make sure all is ok over 15ft cables and devices do matter (sadly). The strongest device i own is my external scaler (dvdo vp50pro) it 'solved' several problems in the past if i placed it before long runs.

Daniel.

Danielo, Well, I ordered a 100 ft expander from Monoprice that seems to have gotten a great deal of positive reviews. Heck, it's only $16 so I have to try it. I also ordered a hopefully higher quality HDMI to DVD dongle. I finalized the order with a very short high quality HDMI cable.

My thought is that if the expander doesn't kick in and fix the connectivity problem, I can pull out my Key Digital HDMI switch (which also has a built in expander capability and just use it to send a stronger/cleaner/whatever-er signal? (That would be non-electrical engineer speak) I know it can work though as a) it use to and b)it's trying to now with an intermittent signal. I'll let you know how it goes. Very frustrating though...
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