Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

Thanks, Jhaz. Yes, we've been discussing with batpig a page or two back in this thread. I'm watching another user's progress, but it looks like a long row to hoe with Logitech to get this done right now, unfortunately. I'm digging the discrete code for day/evening/midnight and want that!

I read this post and decided to check to see if they'd responded to my tech support request and logged into logitech's site. I didn't see a change so I logged out, and not 30 seconds later I received an e-mail telling me that they had carried out my request. I fired up my Harmony software and found that my receiver's additional buttons had indeed been changed, but to only a slightly better set than I had before, and the ones I had learned were now gone. Oh joy.

I updated my request with the full list from batpig's spreadsheet and I provided a link to that spreadsheet. Hopefully they'll figure it out.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:06 AM
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Yikes, Keith. I guess you'll get there at some point! What set were you using otherwise? 5308CI?
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:11 AM
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WiWavelength, I was trying to make the illustration easier to understand (since that was the original request).

While you don't lose bits per se, the information is still represented incorrectly because the clocks aren't properly in sync

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1093jitter/

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Old 10-20-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

While you don't lose bits per se, the information is still represented incorrectly because the clocks aren't properly in sync

Yes & no. The jittered data still retains all of its original information. Only when it is converted to analog does the jittered data incorrectly represent the original information, as jitter adds noise (similar to quantization noise) to the converted analog signal.

AJ
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

Yikes, Keith. I guess you'll get there at some point! What set were you using otherwise? 5308CI?

They got it fixed for me. I now have somewhere around 140 commands for the receiver. I don't remember the original set I used. It provided something like 7 pages of additional buttons and included the ipod commands.

Here's the process I used to get batpig's commands:
  1. Call tech support
  2. Wait on hold for an hour (I hooked up the Denon while I did this)
  3. Explain to them that you want batpig's commands
  4. When they say you have to pay for it if you are outside the initial support window explain that you have been told this can be done via e-mail but their e-mail support has been down for weeks
  5. They should submit your request to tier 2 support
  6. Wait (took me from Tuesday of last week until this Monday to hear back)
  7. When tech support gets back to you, supply batpig's link to his spreadsheet as well as the list of commands

batpig, thanks for making this information available.
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:14 AM
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Thanks much, Keith. Alright, here I go..to step 1! It did seem like email was available when I went to their site yesterday, so maybe I'll try a two-pronged attack.
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

Thanks much, Keith. Alright, here I go..to step 1! It did seem like email was available when I went to their site yesterday, so maybe I'll try a two-pronged attack.

Ah hell, e-mail support would be back now that I've got my problem resolved. That should make things easier for everyone else.
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:39 AM
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you shouldn't have to show them the actual link to the spreadsheet, all you really (should) need to say is that you want the Denon AVR profile copied over from username "batpigworld".

the thing is, different tech support people are going to have varying degrees of willingness to be helpful, so some people get it done with zero fuss and 1-2 days, whereas others have to exhibit a little more perseverance. I can say though, without question, getting to Tier 2 support is very helpful in general, as the people in Tier 2 are much more knowledgeable, helpful, and experienced. Actually, that is pretty much true for any tech support, not just Harmony.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you shouldn't have to show them the actual link to the spreadsheet, all you really (should) need to say is that you want the Denon AVR profile copied over from username "batpigworld".

the thing is, different tech support people are going to have varying degrees of willingness to be helpful, so some people get it done with zero fuss and 1-2 days, whereas others have to exhibit a little more perseverance. I can say though, without question, getting to Tier 2 support is very helpful in general, as the people in Tier 2 are much more knowledgeable, helpful, and experienced. Actually, that is pretty much true for any tech support, not just Harmony.

True, but I figured it might be easier if they saw your file and then they'd better understand exactly what I was trying to accomplish.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:32 AM
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I agree with the approach of providing more info, especially after being on the phone with these guys twice. The first time I got a guy (Ryan) who is clearly in the U.S. He insists that you can only copy another user's settings for their given device or add IR commands one at a time. We couldn't go back and forth on that much more because he wasn't even seeing the Denon in my device profiles. I hadn't saved one.

So, I got off the phone and talked my wife through adding the device by phone.

I called back and got a guy who clearly is in India and did go into the bit about being outside paid support. He still tried to help but it was a rough conversation and I finally said it may be a tier 2 issue. He said that would definitely have to be purchased. So, it looks like I'll go with the email inquiry (I already sent one figuring this might be a problem) and see how long it takes.

In the meantime, I hope someone can help me with this clicking issue I have (that I mentioned on the prior page of this thread) when I advance/reverse or go to a menu in my Tivo! I assume it would happen with DVD playback as well, when fast forwarding/skipping, or otherwise, but haven't tried that yet.
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Old 10-20-2009, 06:31 PM
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Well, I hauled the AVR4810ci up to my computer room today, to "pre-configure" the unit before I put it into the entertainment center with all the speaker wiring and video cables, etc. After plugging in the Ethernet cable, in a few minutes a message came up on the TV screen that "a new update was available". I was surprised that it automatically linked to Denon and displayed this message without my prompting for an update.

After a 16 minute download, it completed the Firmware update without a problem. I then disconnected the Ethernet cable and attached the Wireless antenna to the back of the AVR4810ci. I clicked on the Network option and it found several SSIDs in the neighborhood. Clicked on my Cisco Router name and keyed in the WEP code. Bingo - it was instantly connected. Really easy process as compared to what I had expected from reading the Manual.

Question for all: Can I plug an Ethernet cable from the AVR4810ci into my Denon DBP2010ci Blu-ray player and use the AVR4810ci as a wireless Hub to update the 2010ci?

I have pre-configured the speaker setting to 11.1, set the speaker sizes, and audio formats for the different video sources. So once my 2 external Amps for the Front Wide and Surround "B" speakers arrive this week, I will be able to install everything, hopefully this weekend.

I am a "happy camper" tonight!!

Raybo
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnewste View Post

Well, I hauled the AVR4810ci up to my computer room today, to "pre-configure" the unit before I put it into the entertainment center with all the speaker wiring and video cables, etc. After plugging in the Ethernet cable, in a few minutes a message came up on the TV screen that "a new update was available". I was surprised that it automatically linked to Denon and displayed this message without my prompting for an update.

After a 16 minute download, it completed the Firmware update without a problem. I then disconnected the Ethernet cable and attached the Wireless antenna to the back of the AVR4810ci. I clicked on the Network option and it found several SSIDs in the neighborhood. Clicked on my Cisco Router name and keyed in the WEP code. Bingo - it was instantly connected. Really easy process as compared to what I had expected from reading the Manual.

Question for all: Can I plug an Ethernet cable from the AVR4810ci into my Denon DBP2010ci Blu-ray player and use the AVR4810ci as a wireless Hub to update the 2010ci?

Raybo

No, you cannot use it that way... also, the Denon has an option to check for updates automatically...

Also remember that you can now use a web browser to control and configure the 4810 once on the network... it's much faster, and is the way to go.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


Also remember that you can now use a web browser to control and configure the 4810 once on the network... it's much faster, and is the way to go.

Can you amplify a bit on how to use a Browser (without a keyboard)? Is it possible to wirelessly use my Dell Latitude PC and display my Laptop screen on the 65" Sharp LCD to do Lotus Notes, AOL surfing, etc.?

Raybo
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:26 PM
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About to pull the trigger on a 4810 after the wife gave the go ahead.

Currently have JBL L series 890s for the front left and rights and the surround left and rights. Back surrounds are 810s. The center is a LC2 and the heights are 820s and are wired and ready for the 4810.

Was thinking of adding L 830s as width channels. Problem is need another amp for the widths.

What does everyone think of using an Emotiva UPA 2 to power the widths? Its only 125 watts/channel while the 4810 is 140. I figure it doesn't actually output 140 watts so they should be a fairly good match. Its also more affordable then the XPA series.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:31 PM
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General Custer,

Yes, the Emotiva would be a good choice. I was going that route, but the depth of the UPA-2 would not fit within my cabinet (be sure to check this in your setup), so I had to go with the less desirable AudioSource Amp. Call Emotiva and ask for Cathy. You can score a B Stock UPA-2 for $249.00 plus shipping right now.

Raybo
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnewste View Post

Can you amplify a bit on how to use a Browser (without a keyboard)? Is it possible to wirelessly use my Dell Latitude PC and display my Laptop screen on the 65" Sharp LCD to do Lotus Notes, AOL surfing, etc.?

Raybo

Please re read my post. I said you can control and configure the 4810 through your laptop or any other computer on the same network.

If you go to the GUI - Manual Setup - Network Setup - Network Info screen you will find the IP address of the Denon.

Type that address into any browser on a computer on your network and you can control the Denon. It's a fast and easy way to change volumes, adjust settings, etc.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

I agree with the approach of providing more info, especially after being on the phone with these guys twice. The first time I got a guy (Ryan) who is clearly in the U.S. He insists that you can only copy another user's settings for their given device or add IR commands one at a time. We couldn't go back and forth on that much more because he wasn't even seeing the Denon in my device profiles. I hadn't saved one.

So, I got off the phone and talked my wife through adding the device by phone.

I called back and got a guy who clearly is in India and did go into the bit about being outside paid support. He still tried to help but it was a rough conversation and I finally said it may be a tier 2 issue. He said that would definitely have to be purchased. So, it looks like I'll go with the email inquiry (I already sent one figuring this might be a problem) and see how long it takes.

In the meantime, I hope someone can help me with this clicking issue I have (that I mentioned on the prior page of this thread) when I advance/reverse or go to a menu in my Tivo! I assume it would happen with DVD playback as well, when fast forwarding/skipping, or otherwise, but haven't tried that yet.

I can verify the clicking when using the TiVo. Mine's in the other room and it's so soft I never heard it. It's not nearly as loud as the Onkyo was when switching modes.

Batpig's remote codes are missing a few inputs. No big deal as they can be acquired from the remote easily enough. However at least one of the inputs, the sat/cbl, was in the prior set I was using.

I was hoping to find a command that would pop up a status display on the TV, not the one that is in the menu but like what you see when you change inputs. So far as I can tell there isn't one in the Harmony codes that works or on the standard remote. Anybody find anything different on that?
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnewste View Post

General Custer,

Yes, the Emotiva would be a good choice. I was going that route, but the depth of the UPA-2 would not fit within my cabinet (be sure to check this in your setup), so I had to go with the less desirable AudioSource Amp. Call Emotiva and ask for Cathy. You can score a B Stock UPA-2 for $249.00 plus shipping right now.

Raybo

Which Audiosource amp are you using? I'm thinking of going with Amp 1 for the back surrounds.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

I can verify the clicking when using the TiVo. Mine's in the other room and it's so soft I never heard it. It's not nearly as loud as the Onkyo was when switching modes.

Thanks, Keith. I'm disappointed to hear that this clicking may be normal. I was wrong when I said it was left speaker related, because I hadn't yet read up on the display. I now know that it's the input signal side of the display that's going on and off with the click. The right side of the display (output) stays on. Thus far it appears to only happen with Dolby Digital signals, and not lesser signals, nor with SD discs. I'll try a BD tonight.

I have the Harmony (still sans batpigs codes - no email response from Logitech yet) set up for the most part, to function at least. The bell and whistle buttons (and zone control) will have to wait, but the meat and potatoes part was very easy. Definitely digging controlling the receiver via the network/web page too.

I had another annoying issue with the PS3 source flickering on my LCD (very quick snow on part or all of screen). I fussed with some video settings (like setting i/p scaling to analog only) and I think it may have gone away.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I have a 4310 and have never heard it click when audio goes on or off using a dvr.. others will have to chime in regarding the 4810...

HDMI Control must be On to use the HDMI through feature... You also need to set what input it sends through (last or a specific HDMI input).. in my setup, it wasn't stable until I turned HDMI CEC off on my TV (the TV's CEC is flaky) and changed the monitor output to HDMI Out 2, which I am not using.

FilmMixer - Confirmed that turning off HDMI-CEC on my Samsung LCD appears to have helped with the passing through of HDMI signals while the receiver is off. Thanks much.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

FilmMixer - Confirmed that turning off HDMI-CEC on my Samsung LCD appears to have helped with the passing through of HDMI signals while the receiver is off. Thanks much.

It must be a Samsung issue... that's what my set it too.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:15 AM
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Is the GUI on the 4810 the same as the one that was on the 4308 or has it been updated?
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tboo View Post

Is the GUI on the 4810 the same as the one that was on the 4308 or has it been updated?

And on a similar note, does the NET/USB source display in HD (1080p preferebly), or is it still using SD (80i)? Displaying photos from the computer on the 111" screen suffers when the 4308 only uses SD resolution.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:53 AM
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tocaje,

I had to go with a pair of AudioSource AMP102's as the depth of the Emotiva UPA-2's wouldn't fit in my cabinet. At 75W per channel into my 4-ohm Def Tech in-wall speakers, this should be enough power for the effects Front Wide and Surround "B" speaker pairs, but again, I would have opted for the Emotivas if they would have fit.

EDIT: As there is no fundamental reason to put the External Amps INSIDE my cabinet, I just canceled the order for the AudioSource AMP102's, and ordered the Emotiva UPA-2's which will sit outside, adjacent to the hidden side of the cabinet. This should provide a nice soundstage all around now.

Raybo
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post

And on a similar note, does the NET/USB source display in HD (1080p preferebly), or is it still using SD (80i)? Displaying photos from the computer on the 111" screen suffers when the 4308 only uses SD resolution.

Thanks,
Mike

I can check this tonight if no one else answers.

Something else I should have noted on the Harmony programming that may be helpful to others until Logitech adds the 4810 - I had problems using the 4308 code base. It said it did not recognize the device as such after trying to match up a couple IR commands I sent to the Harmony. I then tried identifying it as the 5308 and it didn't even ask for sample IR signals - it just worked.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboo View Post

Is the GUI on the 4810 the same as the one that was on the 4308 or has it been updated?

It is almost identical... the web interface, however, is much imporved.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

Thanks, Keith. I'm disappointed to hear that this clicking may be normal. I was wrong when I said it was left speaker related, because I hadn't yet read up on the display. I now know that it's the input signal side of the display that's going on and off with the click. The right side of the display (output) stays on. Thus far it appears to only happen with Dolby Digital signals, and not lesser signals, nor with SD discs. I'll try a BD tonight.

I have the Harmony (still sans batpigs codes - no email response from Logitech yet) set up for the most part, to function at least. The bell and whistle buttons (and zone control) will have to wait, but the meat and potatoes part was very easy. Definitely digging controlling the receiver via the network/web page too.

I had another annoying issue with the PS3 source flickering on my LCD (very quick snow on part or all of screen). I fussed with some video settings (like setting i/p scaling to analog only) and I think it may have gone away.

I get clicking as well when switching from one source to the other. Generally, if I can focus on my memory of late last night, it's on video source switching, not internal audio switching such as FM to say Net features. This isn't entirely surprising to me as I have always had some kind of click on Denon receivers, be it my old denon's audible mute click or something else. I don't think this is a flaw of any kind, just a design reality.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:36 PM
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Thanks, Seattle, but I'm not so concerned about clicks on source switching. That's to be expected (for now!). I'm talking about when viewing a single source like my Tivo and skipping ahead, reversing, switching to a menu...whatever breaks the flow of the program. Want to skip through commercials with the 30 second skip button? Click..click..click..click...
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofg View Post

Thanks, Seattle, but I'm not so concerned about clicks on source switching. That's to be expected (for now!). I'm talking about when viewing a single source like my Tivo and skipping ahead, reversing, switching to a menu...whatever breaks the flow of the program. Want to skip through commercials with the 30 second skip button? Click..click..click..click...

Sorry my error. I am not getting that kindo of clicking. I have a Tivo 3 and it's dead silent other than the little be-boop sound the Tivo box is suppose to make. Your problem sounds unusual. Could you try a different input on the Denon and see if you still get the problem? Could it be a fault of your Tivo? I stink at this type of problem so I'll go and find my happy place now....
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:59 PM
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Haha...no this is quite helpful because I have a Tivo 3 as well. I don't know why it would be the Tivo, but I suppose I cannot rule that out. It must be cutting off the audio signal entirely when I do these things, but apparently yours isn't...? Do the lit up input indicators on the left side of your receiver display turn off and on when you skip, etc. on your Tivo?

I'll try assigning the Tivo to and using something other than HDMI5 tonight and see if that makes a difference.
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