Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 4060 Old 08-23-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robusto400 View Post

Can someone explain what is meant by the wide sound (speaker) set-up with the 4810? I understand the high speaker configuration (DPLIIz) but I did not know about the wide sound stage capability. I don't think this is additional speakers is it? Do you use your normal R/L speakers in another set-up? Does it really make a significant difference? Do any other models support this?
Thanks.

Yes, it's more speakers. Two more at the same level, spread out wider than the mains. Look around for other threads about Audyssey and DSX.

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post #62 of 4060 Old 08-23-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I have always thought so and have had the 4802 and now the 4806, but thought the specs were too close to the 58XX series for Denon to have 2 similar THX ultra II units. I remember reading that the 4810 was spec'd to weigh considerably less and possibly not be "THX Ultra II certified." Does anyone know anything otherwise?

I will let you know Monday with any updates.
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post #63 of 4060 Old 08-23-2009, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robusto400 View Post

Can someone explain what is meant by the wide sound (speaker) set-up with the 4810? I understand the high speaker configuration (DPLIIz) but I did not know about the wide sound stage capability. I don't think this is additional speakers is it? Do you use your normal R/L speakers in another set-up? Does it really make a significant difference? Do any other models support this?
Thanks.

Audyssey DSX info:
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dsx.html

It's brand new technology, only available on the 4310CI and now the Onkyo 707 and 807 that just came out.

Here's a DSX thread, "joerod" has used both the 4310CI and now the Onkyo 807:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1172358

You can also read through some reports on the AVR 4310CI owner's thread.

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post #64 of 4060 Old 08-24-2009, 10:48 AM
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if anyone has the service manual - could you say what the op-amps in the DAC section the 4806 uses please ? Interested to see if they use same as in the 3808 - or something a bit higher end

thanks
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post #65 of 4060 Old 08-24-2009, 11:51 AM
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Anyone know how many zones the 4810 will have? No news from my Denon rep right now. Thanks in advance.
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post #66 of 4060 Old 08-24-2009, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevef View Post

Anyone know how many zones the 4810 will have? No news from my Denon rep right now. Thanks in advance.

According to this list of specs:

• All new DDSC-HD
• Dolby TrueHD and DD
• dts-HD Master Audio Audio decoding
• Dolby PLIIz matrix decoding for Front Height effects
• Audyssey DSX (Dynamic Surround Expansion) decoding for Front Height and/or Front Width channels
• HDCD decoding
• Features latest 32-bit Floating Analog Devices SHARC Processors
• 9 channels equal power amplifier section, Multi Mono-block construction
• 140 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 – 20kHz)
• Burr-Brown 24-bit, 192-kHz, PCM-1791A DACs on all 8 channels configured in differential mode
• 3 Source/Zone capable, including 2 with video
• 1080p Compatible HDMI 1.3a Deep Color (6/2) Repeaters, Dual outputs
• Front Panel HDMI input
• Fully assignable channels for biamping, Surround channels or Multi-Zone applications
• Assignable 12v, 150mA triggers (2)
• Assignable Ultra-Wideband (100 MHz) Component inputs (3)
• Analog/HDMI Video to HDMI Scaling (1080p) featuring Anchor Bay Technologies processing (ABT-2010), with GUI overlay
• Vertical Stretch for CinemaScope Screens
• Digital to Analog conversion for Multi-Zone connection flexibility
• Rear panel RS-232C and Ethernet ports for Crestron/AMX control communication
• Ethernet port with built-in Multi-Media Command and Control functionality
• Web Browser Control
• Windows Vista Certified, and Windows 7 compatible
• Dedicated iPod™ control port (for use with optional ASD-11R Dock, with on-screen display and remote control
• DLNA Certified
• Remote Access and Firmware Update/Upgrade via Internet
• Internet Radio, Rhapsody and Napster
• Audyssey MultEQ XT and Audyssey Pro Installer Ready, calibration microphone included
• 4 Assignable digital inputs
• Denon Link 4th, featuring Clock Control with HDMI
• Front Panel USB Port
• iPod Digital Direct USB Connectivity (Audio only)
• AM/FM HD Radio tuner with auto preset FM memory (56 stations)
• XM and Sirius Radio Ready
• New GUI for Main Zone, with independent On Screen Display for Zone 2
• New EL learning/pre-programmed Remote Control
• Detachable Power Cord
• Serial IR ports
• Second, Multi-Zone Remote included
• Sleep Timer
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post #67 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 04:38 AM
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I realise this thread is about the amp, but there is a bit more up to date information on the (European) BDP-4010UD player, for those that are interested.

Added: BDP-4010UDCI info on USA website.
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post #68 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 09:31 AM
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Thanks MarkB, been waiting for this one as well as the 4810. I was also hoping that the 4010 would be HDMI 1.4.

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post #69 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 09:43 AM
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Any information of the Pre-Outs on this thing yet? It sure would be nice if it had them for every channel, including all four sided surround channels.
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post #70 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

Any information of the Pre-Outs on this thing yet? It sure would be nice if it had them for every channel, including all four sided surround channels.

I would think it would be 9.3 (12 outputs), with the width/height channels shared similar to the new Onkyo.
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post #71 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 02:38 PM
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does the DPLIIz apply to Dolby Digital, TrueHD as well? that's what i want =P. otherwise, it's useless imho.

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post #72 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 02:42 PM
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yes, PLIIx, PLIIz, or DSX can be applied to any input signal type

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post #73 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 10:18 PM
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I hope it has more than 1 Subwoofer output, I guess we will see in due time.
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post #74 of 4060 Old 08-25-2009, 11:43 PM
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if they're calling it a "9.3" receiver I think you are pretty safe assuming there is more than 1!

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post #75 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR1963 View Post

I hope it has more than 1 Subwoofer output, I guess we will see in due time.

As batpig points out, the machine is a 9.3 channel unit so will have 3 subwoofer outputs (the title of this thread needs to be changed).

On Denon units that have multiple sub outputs till now it goes further than that, though. Many amps that have multiple sub outputs simply copy the subwoofer signal to all outputs, but the Denon amps/processors allow customisation.

For example the Subwoofer setting "2SP L/R" configures the system so that the left sub will receive all cut-off signals from speakers set to small on the left of the room, and the right sub will receive all cut-off signals from speakers set to small on the right of the room. Centre channels go to both as does the LFE channel.

On top of that, I believe the units can also perform Audyssey correction on as many subs as are connected. I had the AVP but never ran Audyssey.

The settings are:
"1SP"
"2SP L/R"
"2SP MIX"
"3SP L/R/LFE"
"3SP MIX"

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post #76 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

As batpig points out, the machine is a 9.3 channel unit so will have 3 subwoofer outputs (the title of this thread needs to be changed).

On Denon units that have multiple sub outputs till now it goes further than that, though. Many amps that have multiple sub outputs simply copy the subwoofer signal to all outputs, but the Denon amps/processors allow customisation.

For example the Subwoofer setting "2SP L/R" configures the system so that the left sub will receive all cut-off signals from speakers set to small on the left of the room, and the right sub will receive all cut-off signals from speakers set to small on the right of the room. Centre channels go to both as does the LFE channel.

On top of that, I believe the units can also perform Audyssey correction on as many subs as are connected. I had the AVP but never ran Audyssey.

The settings are:
"1SP"
"2SP L/R"
"2SP MIX"
"3SP L/R/LFE"
"3SP MIX"

P.S. batpig: great website.


cool, what is your source though? i would like to know more about the 4810
thx
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post #77 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 09:04 AM
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DPLIIx can't be applied to Dolby Digital or DTS on my older Denon AVR, so i don't think DPLIIz can be applied to TrueHD/DTS-HD MA. that'd require somn like a THX-like mode that is in addition to TrueHD/DTS-HD MA.

DPLIIz is only stereo sources afaik, unless som1 corrects me. DSX i'm not familiar with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, PLIIx, PLIIz, or DSX can be applied to any input signal type


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post #78 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 09:35 AM
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Maybe this is a stupid question. But am I to assume this amp has the same type toroidal power amplifiers found in the 4806? I saw some nice specs, but nothing mentioning this specifically, unless I'm dumb, deaf, or blind.

-James
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post #79 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

DPLIIx can't be applied to Dolby Digital or DTS on my older Denon AVR,

what AVR do you have? you are almost certainly wrong on that point. The whole point of PLIIx is to matrix 5.1 > 7.1, it can be applied to any 5.1 or 2.0 source. Since the first AVR with PLIIx came out they could do 5.1>7.1 with DD/DTS signals, again that's the whole point! And all modern Denons can do PLIIx on HD audio signals or multich PCM.

Quote:


so i don't think DPLIIz can be applied to TrueHD/DTS-HD MA.

again, you are wrong, people are doing it this very day to matrix 5.1 to "5.1+height". try reading some of the new Denon/Onkyo owner's threads.

Quote:


DPLIIz is only stereo sources afaik

wrong again. PLIIz and PLIIx basically are the same thing, except the "x" version matrixes a pair of "rear" surrounds and the "z" version matrixes a pair of "height" channels. Either one can be applied to any 5.1 or 2.0 source to create 7.1 channels!

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post #80 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 10:57 AM
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No doubt, this is gonna be one kick butt reciever!!!

I need to start looking for more room for the additional speakers now.
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post #81 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacdonald801 View Post

But am I to assume this amp has the same type toroidal power amplifiers found in the 4806?

I am curious as well because afaik, that is where the THX Ultra II rating in an AVR gets it's impedance requirement to drive speakers with dips down to 3.2 Ohms at Reference levels.
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post #82 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 12:24 PM
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mine's pretty old, haven't been keeping upto the latest AVRs. AVR-1804 or 884 (same model). it'll only extend 5.1->7.1 via a pair of surround rear channels, but not DPLIIx.

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post #83 of 4060 Old 08-26-2009, 01:12 PM
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AVR 884/1804 is a 6.1 receiver, it doesn't even have PLIIx

it can create a mono rear channel using EX matrixing, but the newer models with PLIIx/z can create stereo rear channels (and now "height" channels) from ANY 5.1 source.

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post #84 of 4060 Old 08-27-2009, 04:57 AM
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I have been trying to get some meaningful updates, but at this point, the only news is Oct.
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post #85 of 4060 Old 08-27-2009, 06:01 AM
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so in theory you should be able to 1 poa per speaker and run a 90.30 or 110.30 speaker setup... as example.. if the configuration platform did supports it?
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post #86 of 4060 Old 08-27-2009, 06:46 AM
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the 884 has a DPLIIz, not the x =P. so sorry i still dunno wtf i'm talking about =P.

so you're telling me the new DPL modes CAN in fact, be enabled for everything from lossy DD, DTS through lossless TrueHD/DTS-HD MA? that's what i want from DPLz for the front height speakers for true 9.1 for all materials.

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post #87 of 4060 Old 08-27-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

so in theory you should be able to 1 poa per speaker and run a 90.30 or 110.30 speaker setup... as example.. if the configuration platform did supports it?

I doubt it allows height channels and width channels at the same time, although I could be wrong (if that is what you are saying), which would make it 9.3 processing as well as 9.3 output via internal amps and line out. I suppose we won't find out until next month.

Perhaps the AVR-5308/AVC-A1HD replacement will have 11.3 channel processing, 11 amps and 14 line out terminals allowing 11 speakers to be used. Having said that I think 9 speakers and 3 subs in a domestic environment is plenty (mind you I thought that with 7.1 and look us now! )
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post #88 of 4060 Old 08-27-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

the 884 has a DPLIIz, not the x =P. so sorry i still dunno wtf i'm talking about =P.

The 884 has neither "z" not "x", it has regular Pro Logic II which is meant to take stereo material up to 5.1 channels. 2.0 > 5.1.

It can use a standard "matrix" decoder (EX) to create a mono 6th rear channel from 5.1 material, e.g. DD-EX or DTS-ES encoded 6.1 tracks

PLIIx was an update of PLII which allowed for up to 7.1 expansion. It can be applied to ANY 5.1 material, and it takes the two surround channels and processes them into four surround channels (side and rear). 5.1 > 7.1.

PLIIz and the new Audyssey DSX can take ANY 5.1 material and process additional channels -- PLIIz can create "height" channels and DSX can create your choice of "height" or "wide" channels.


Quote:


so you're telling me the new DPL modes CAN in fact, be enabled for everything from lossy DD, DTS through lossless TrueHD/DTS-HD MA?

YES!

The 4810 has 9 amps and 9 channels of processing, so with DSX or DPLIIz you can have a "true" 9.1 setup -- standard 7.1 + wides, 7.1 + heights, or 5.1 + heights and wides.

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post #89 of 4060 Old 08-27-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

I doubt it allows height channels and width channels at the same time

no, it absolutely does. That's why they are calling it a "9.3" receiver, it has nine amps and nine channels of processing, so you can do any 9 channel configuration (e.g. 5.1 + height + wide).

see the DSX page for the possible 7.1 and 9.1 configs:
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dsx.html

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post #90 of 4060 Old 08-27-2009, 11:39 AM
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thanks batpig =P. that means my AVR is feeding the rear LR to the center surround back LR since i can enable "7.1" DPLII as well, but it's prolly refed the same signals.

it is getting long in the tooth, but 4810 looks good =). dunno what the price ranges... maybe the same as 4308ci? around $2k?

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