Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 01:45 PM
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How will 4810 compare to 4310?

I think it's pretty much analogous to 3808 vs 4308 last year: you get a bigger chassis, beefier amps, wifi, component video output to Zone 2, and greater overall flexibility and settings options. Video processing and general features / functionality are the same.

this year though, the biggest difference is that the 4810 has 9 amps and 12 channels of processing (11.1) with a huge amount of flexibility in how you distribute those amps/channels. The 4310CI is just a 7.1 receiver (so if you use DSX or want to power Zone 2, you would have to sacrifice the rear surrounds in 7.1 to add heights/wides or Zone 2 speakers); the 4810CI can do a full 11.1 DSX setup, or run a 7.1 setup with powered multizone, or a 5.1 setup with two powered zones, etc. If you have external amps for Main Zone you can dedicate even more amps to MultiZone.

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post #182 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

How will 4810 compare to 4310? I have have the the 4810 on pre order.

I suppose the 3 things that stand out as different is the processing, power amps and multizone options:

I think (although I may be wrong) that the 4310 can only process 7.1 at any time, so it can do 5.1+H OR 5.1+W or 7.1. The 4810 can process 11.1 so it can do 7.1+W+H (when using additional amps). The 4810 has 3 32bit processors and the 4310 has 2 (processing extra channels I expect).

The 4810 has 140w×9 and the 4310 has 130w×7
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post #183 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think it's pretty much analogous to 3808 vs 4308 last year: you get a bigger chassis, beefier amps, wifi, component video output to Zone 2, and greater overall flexibility and settings options. Video processing and general features / functionality are the same.

this year though, the biggest difference is that the 4810 has 9 amps and 12 channels of processing (11.1) with a huge amount of flexibility in how you distribute those amps/channels. The 4310CI is just a 7.1 receiver (so if you use DSX or want to power Zone 2, you would have to sacrifice the rear surrounds in 7.1 to add heights/wides or Zone 2 speakers); the 4810CI can do a full 11.1 DSX setup, or run a 7.1 setup with powered multizone, or a 5.1 setup with two powered zones, etc. If you have external amps for Main Zone you can dedicate even more amps to MultiZone.

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post #184 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 03:50 PM
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Seems like I'll stick with the rather newly bought 4308A and be perfectly happy. I'll just have to get use to get bluerays so i dont have to scale to much since i dont have an anchor bay chip. Not that the old chip is truly bad, just a bit lacking.

That said, $3000 isnt that much. Just a taid higher then what the 4310 goes for around here. But then, prices are pesky here.
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post #185 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think it's pretty much analogous to 3808 vs 4308 last year: you get a bigger chassis, beefier amps, wifi, component video output to Zone 2, and greater overall flexibility and settings options. Video processing and general features / functionality are the same.

this year though, the biggest difference is that the 4810 has 9 amps and 12 channels of processing (11.1) with a huge amount of flexibility in how you distribute those amps/channels. The 4310CI is just a 7.1 receiver (so if you use DSX or want to power Zone 2, you would have to sacrifice the rear surrounds in 7.1 to add heights/wides or Zone 2 speakers); the 4810CI can do a full 11.1 DSX setup, or run a 7.1 setup with powered multizone, or a 5.1 setup with two powered zones, etc. If you have external amps for Main Zone you can dedicate even more amps to MultiZone.

Well said batpig (as usual)
Biggest difference/advantage for me, is the ability to run a normal 7.1 system plus Audyssey DSX (wide and/or height) speakers.
Amps.... probably the next biggest advantage of the 4810 over the 4310 but,
real world difference.... not so much, for me.
Wifi..... cool but not so much, for me.
Component zone 2....... cool but not so much, for me.

So if you are running "just" a 7.1 system with no designs to step up to Audyssey DSX the 4810 is probably not the best choice for you when the 4310 is a very capable performer.

How about comparing the new Onkyo 5007? to the 4810

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post #186 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Nothing against your Custom Installer friends but I can't imagine why one would laugh when you told them you had the AVR 4806 unless you were worried it wouldn't drive 4 Ohm rated speakers.

No, they considered the 4806 overkill and said that even some models down the food chain would do it no problem (also consider I am on a limited budget compared to what they deal with). One said that Denon's are bulletproof.

I'll admit that the lack of HDMI 1.4 and .3 processing is giving me a little pause. A "Pre" version with this much processing would be a real winner. Add 2 balanced ins and it is over the top.

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post #187 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 06:03 PM
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Looking through the manuals/feature sets for both the 4810 and the Onkyo 5007, a couple of things stick out....

#1 - The 5007 Burr-Brown 192/32 DACs,
4810 Burr-Brown 192/24

#2 - 5007 THX Ultra2 Plus certified
4810... not

#3 - 4810 11.1 capable
5007....9.1

#4 - 5007 8 HDMI inputs
4810 6 HDMI inputs

#5 - 4810 DenonLink 4
5007.... no

#6 - 4810 ABT Video Processing
5007 HQV Reon-VX Advantage? unknown

#7 - 4810 WiFi
5007... no

#8 - 5007 55.1 lbs
4810 42.2

#9 - 5007 145 watts
4810 140 watts

#10 - 4810 HD Radio included
5007 need to purchase an adaptor

So there's my top 10 differences, in no particular order.
What do you guys think?

dc

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post #188 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post


#2 - 5007 THX Ultra2 Plus certified
4810... not

#9 - 5007 145 watts
4810 140 watts

So there's my top 10 differences, in no particular order.
What do you guys think?

dc

I am curious what a benchmark test concerning the amps would show given that the AVR 4810 is not THX ultra II rated and is spreading that power over 9 channels instead of 7 like it's predecessor, the AVR 4806 and still weighs considerably less.
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post #189 of 4060 Old 09-07-2009, 06:57 PM
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Another difference between the 4810 and the 5007...
the 5007 is available in Silver finish.
How many of you would like Denon to offer the silver finish again?

dc

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post #190 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

Another difference between the 4810 and the 5007...
the 5007 is available in Silver finish.
How many of you would like Denon to offer the silver finish again?

dc

I was looking forward to black, since the last 4 Denon units I have bought I was forced to have gold or premium silver. The higher end units are not available in Black in Europe.
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post #191 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 12:32 AM
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#1 - The 5007 Burr-Brown 192/32 DACs,
4810 Burr-Brown 192/24

#2 - 5007 THX Ultra2 Plus certified
4810... not

#3 - 4810 11.1 capable
5007....9.1

#4 - 5007 8 HDMI inputs
4810 6 HDMI inputs

#5 - 4810 DenonLink 4
5007.... no

#6 - 4810 ABT Video Processing
5007 HQV Reon-VX Advantage? unknown

#7 - 4810 WiFi
5007... no

#8 - 5007 55.1 lbs
4810 42.2

#9 - 5007 145 watts
4810 140 watts

#10 - 4810 HD Radio included
5007 need to purchase an adaptor

#11 - 4810 is Audyssey Installer Ready
5007 is not
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post #192 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 07:59 AM
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#11 - 4810 is Audyssey Installer Ready
5007 is not
[/quote]

What does that mean?
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post #193 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeed View Post

#11 - 4810 is Audyssey Installer Ready
5007 is not

What does that mean?[/quote]

4810 does Audyssey PRO
5007 does not offer PRO
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post #194 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

#1 - The 5007 Burr-Brown 192/32 DACs,
4810 Burr-Brown 192/24

#2 - 5007 THX Ultra2 Plus certified
4810... not

#3 - 4810 11.1 capable
5007....9.1

#4 - 5007 8 HDMI inputs
4810 6 HDMI inputs

#5 - 4810 DenonLink 4
5007.... no

#6 - 4810 ABT Video Processing
5007 HQV Reon-VX Advantage? unknown

#7 - 4810 WiFi
5007... no

#8 - 5007 55.1 lbs
4810 42.2

#9 - 5007 145 watts
4810 140 watts

#10 - 4810 HD Radio included
5007 need to purchase an adaptor

#11 - 4810 is Audyssey Installer Ready
5007 is not

Good find woof woof...... this could be a big one for some, not so big for others.

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post #195 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterryo View Post

What does that mean?

Quote:
4810 does Audyssey PRO
5007 does not offer PRO

The 4810CI does Audyssey PRO
The 4810 will most likely not offer Audyssey PRO.
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post #196 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

Looking through the manuals/feature sets for both the 4810 and the Onkyo 5007, a couple of things stick out....

#1 - The 5007 Burr-Brown 192/32 DACs,
4810 Burr-Brown 192/24

#2 - 5007 THX Ultra2 Plus certified
4810... not

#3 - 4810 11.1 capable
5007....9.1

#4 - 5007 8 HDMI inputs
4810 6 HDMI inputs

#5 - 4810 DenonLink 4
5007.... no

#6 - 4810 ABT Video Processing
5007 HQV Reon-VX Advantage? unknown

#7 - 4810 WiFi
5007... no

#8 - 5007 55.1 lbs
4810 42.2

#9 - 5007 145 watts
4810 140 watts

#10 - 4810 HD Radio included
5007 need to purchase an adaptor

So there's my top 10 differences, in no particular order.
What do you guys think?

dc

I have also hear you can fry eggs on the 5007 after it's been running for a while. That's a cool benefit.
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post #197 of 4060 Old 09-08-2009, 12:17 PM
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#9 - 5007 145 watts
4810 140 watts

this is essentially meaningless and IMHO shouldn't be included. First off it's "on paper" specs and not accurate real world power numbers, and second the difference between 140 and 145 watts (if that IS the true difference) is totally inconsequential.

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post #198 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

Well said batpig (as usual)
Biggest difference/advantage for me, is the ability to run a normal 7.1 system plus Audyssey DSX (wide and/or height) speakers.
Amps.... probably the next biggest advantage of the 4810 over the 4310 but,
real world difference.... not so much, for me.
Wifi..... cool but not so much, for me.
Component zone 2....... cool but not so much, for me.

So if you are running "just" a 7.1 system with no designs to step up to Audyssey DSX the 4810 is probably not the best choice for you when the 4310 is a very capable performer.

How about comparing the new Onkyo 5007? to the 4810

Are you using an external AMP?
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post #199 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 04:55 AM
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5007 is the top of the line 9.x receiver from Onkyo. Guess it shd be comparable to the 58xx or 48xx series from Denon.

The 5507 is the pre/pro
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post #200 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 06:04 AM
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I thought the 4810CI was supposed to have HDMI 1.4a ports. The manual says 1.3a. What happened? Is the USB port USB 2.0 or 3.0?
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post #201 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 09:03 AM
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USB 3 is 2010 or later!

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news...es-in-2010.ars

HDMI 1.4x is actually 2011 and after as well because we dunno if Panasonic, Sony and Philips will all use Real3D technology or 2 other competing versions or even come up with their own.

with spex constantly in flux, there is technically no reason to worry about it until 2014-2015 when CE products w/HDMI 1.4x and USB 3.x finally arrive in our homes! by then you will most likely swap out AVRs too! =).

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post #202 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 10:55 AM
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I'm primarily interested in using this as a Pre-Pro. I'm using a 3808 for that purpose now. One thing that irritates me with the 3808, is I can not run two sets of surround speakers (side surround) off the pre-outs and have them independent of each other. This causes problems with setting the distance and SPL correctly.

Has anyone read through the manual close enough to understand what the pre-out configuration options are?

I do not intend to use the width speakers, as I have bass traps and shelving right where the width speakers would go, and I don't want to move them. I was going to just use the height speakers, as well as two sets of side surround and the surround backs.
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post #203 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 11:06 AM
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the pre-out setup appears to be pretty straightforward, you get full 11.3 pre-outs: eleven channels (Front L/R, C, Surr. L/R, Surr.Back L/R, Wide L/R, and Height L/R) plus 3 sub outs. No shenanigans like "shared" pre-outs for different channels.

Plus, if you are using the pre-outs you can reassign the internal amps (with Free Assign mode) to other tasks (e.g. powering multizone speakers).

the 4810CI does not appear to use the "Surr A+B" implementation that was on the 3808.

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post #204 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 11:30 AM
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i'm kind of confused about all these extra zones/outputs? having gotten 4308ci recently, i just turn those off.

what applications can they be used for? wouldn't a person want a completely separate setup just for separate rooms like outdoors and such? it'd simply things imho.

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post #205 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 01:13 PM
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I'm afraid my upgrade cycle is quite a bit longer than the rest of the guys on this forum and I want to future proof my purchase as much as possible.
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post #206 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 01:19 PM
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scottshiv, but u can't possibly futureproof against EVERYTHING! =P

think of the Dolby Pro Logic AVR people from the past? those that don't have 5.1 channel analog inputs >P.

when hdmi 1.4x and usb 3.x comes out there'll already be spex for hdmi 1.5 or 2.x or DisplayPort 2.x might be the new standard or somn newer than that like Wireless HD/HDMI 2.x. usb 4.x might be in the preliminary stages.

technology is NEVER ending ever evolving =P. at some if u want to enjoy lossless audio (as an example) and 1080p digital switching, u'll just need to pull the trigger =P

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post #207 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

scottshiv, but u can't possibly futureproof against EVERYTHING! =P

think of the Dolby Pro Logic AVR people from the past? those that don't have 5.1 channel analog inputs >P.

when hdmi 1.4x and usb 3.x comes out there'll already be spex for hdmi 1.5 or 2.x or DisplayPort 2.x might be the new standard or somn newer than that like Wireless HD/HDMI 2.x. usb 4.x might be in the preliminary stages.

technology is NEVER ending ever evolving =P. at some if u want to enjoy lossless audio (as an example) and 1080p digital switching, u'll just need to pull the trigger =P

I agree and want to add that just because there is new technology doesn't necessarily mean you need it. I knew about Audyssey DSX and Dolby PLIIz but have no need for them. I'm happy with my 4308ci.
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post #208 of 4060 Old 09-09-2009, 06:16 PM
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The real nice thing about this unit is that it will work very well for a three zone system with the main zone being 5.1. This type of setup is frequently used in Condo's where the owner wants main zone, + kitchen and master bath (or something like that). In the past, we were always stuck with needing an additional outboard 2 channel amp (like a sherbourn or rotel to wedge in there). Now, with one component you can piece together an inexpensive multiroom system using the 4810, a Crestron MC2E, TPMC-3X, 2 keypads and some inexpensive in-ceiling speakers for the other 2 zones.
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post #209 of 4060 Old 09-10-2009, 07:29 AM
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so u can listen to different sources on these different zones? like main is watching BD, zone2 is mp3 and zone3 is SD DVD?

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post #210 of 4060 Old 09-10-2009, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

this is essentially meaningless and IMHO shouldn't be included. First off it's "on paper" specs and not accurate real world power numbers, and second the difference between 140 and 145 watts (if that IS the true difference) is totally inconsequential.

Very True......... just kind of threw it in there for comparison sake.
Based on the 4310's internal amps, which I think are excellent, the 4810's amps should be even better

I guess we're going to start seeing separate 9 channel amps pretty soon.
Looks like Onkyo already has one on the way....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1176968

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