** OFFICIAL ** Denon AVR-3310CI/990 Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkrodgers View Post

So to those of you have this, what made you decide to go with this instead of the 4310, other than the obviously significant extra cost? Any regrets or features you miss?

I was seriously considering the 4310 vs. the 3310, especially because of the "name your own price" feature at 6th ave, which would have allowed me to purchase the 4310 for about 16% off MSRP.

Here are the main extra features, and why I decided I didn't need them (from your list in the other thread):

- 10 more watts
Even with my old receiver that had less power than the 3310 I could blow the roof off if I wanted to; more power wasn't really needed.

- 21367 x 2 32-bit Floating Point instead of x 1.
- MultEQ XT
It would have been really nice to have MultEQ XT, but I decided that the setup in my livingroom is pretty optimal in terms of where speakers are placed, and the benefits I would get from enhanced acoustic correction would be marginal at best (I also consider myself more of a videophile than an audiophile). I ran the MultEQ setup yesterday and it sounds great.

- Extra HDMI out
This was one of those features where I would use it if it was there, but if asked if I REALLY needed it, the answer is no. I don't run a LCD and a projector in the same room, so the extra output would have fed either the garage or the kitchen. I decided that if I ever wanted to take that route I would just use the Zone 2 output to drive them (even if it is just analog), or I would pick up one of these: HDMI splitter

- Front HDMI input
I don't have any portable devices that use HDMI. Even if I did, it's not that hard to reach behind the receiver to plug in a HDMI cord. The inputs are all along the top of the unit, easy to just feel your way around. Or you can get a HDMI port saver, leave it plugged into an extra port in the back, and just reach for it when you have to plug something in quick.

- AL24+ on all channels instead of just L+R. I'm not clear if this is of much value.
- Denon Link 4
- Some extra legacy ins/outs
- HDMI SACD support
- Stereo/Direct Modes w/Pure Analog Path
- Neural Surround Mode XMHD
- Direct iPod support via front USB port
I wouldn't use these features at all

- Wide Screen 7.1 Mode
- Audyssey DSX
A standard 7.1 setup is good enough for me right now. If it became more mainstream, then maybe I would think of upgrading to this. I decided to wait for the technology to mature a little bit before making the move.

When taking these decisions into account, along with a discounted preorder price on a 3310 (thanks santora), the extra cost was not worth it in my case. I was planning on upgrading my speaker set as well, so I decided that the money I saved on the 3310 vs the 4310 would go towards making a dent into that purchase. No regrets here.

- Frank
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post #32 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkrodgers View Post

So to those of you have this, what made you decide to go with this instead of the 4310, other than the obviously significant extra cost? Any regrets or features you miss?

Honestly, the 4310 didn't offer me anything I needed. Sure, there were a couple of Oooo, that'd be cool moments. But I followed that with - do I really need it?

Extra Power? I already make the room shake. Wife occasionally asks me to turn it down. Wouldn't make any difference to me.

MultiEQ XT? No deal breaker for me there. I think that MultiEQ is more than good enough. I deal with a lot of Audio / Video at work (I'm an editor), so I can hear the difference in audio set ups. But again, do I need it at home in my living room? No, it sounds great with out the XT.

Extra I/O? This one gave me pause. The wife wouldn't mind another set in the kitchen so that she could follow Food Network/HGTV/DIY network in-between rooms. But as that's not going to happen for a bit, I think a HDMI splitter would do just fine if we decide to go that way.

HDMI on Front of the Unit? Again, considered seriously. I have a camcorder that I use way too frequently I'm told on my 5 month old daughter. It has HDMI out. But I just leave the cable plugged into the back and leave it tucked nicely away on the side. When I need it, just pull it out. Not like the camera needs to be too far from the receiver.

Ass for the reason I went with the 3310 over the 2310 - Networking, Number of Legacy Inputs (3 component - Moxi Box, Xbox 360, DVD Changer), USB, HD Radio... The cost difference really made the difference.

All the other stuff, just bells and whistles. If you need them, great. If it's something you don't need, then save the money. Put it towards better speakers. Hey, I don't even have a 7.1 set up right now. Not going to get it anytime soon either. No space in the room (currently). But this was a 10 year purchase for me. I expect to use it until the wheels fall off.


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post #33 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolarOso View Post


When taking these decisions into account, along with a discounted preorder price on a 3310 (thanks santora), the extra cost was not worth it in my case. I was planning on upgrading my speaker set as well, so I decided that the money I saved on the 3310 vs the 4310 would go towards making a dent into that purchase. No regrets here.

- Frank

Great minds think alike Frank! I think we were writing responses at the same time!

Mark
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post #34 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 02:43 PM
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Thanks for the replies. JDSmoothie has got what I'm trying to do. I want to run HDMI (audio only) and component (video only) from my source to the AVR. Then run component for video to the TV. I would not use a HDMI out from the AVR at all. It really comes down to whether the source will output HDMI audio only and component video at the same time. I went through the PS3 FAQ and through the owners FAQ for my pany blu-ray and I think there is a chance based on the settings that exist. I'm not expecting downconversion of HDMI video.

Now, I also think it is highly likely I'll be using component video outputs for sound and digital coax ( or 7.1 analog out) for sound on my sources for a year until I get a new TV and I can live with that. At least I've confirmed that the GUI shows up on the component output.

I've ordered the 3310 and it should be here soon and I'll test and post however it turns out.


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post #35 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 02:50 PM
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it definitely SHOULD work as long as the source device outputs component video simultaneously with HDMI output. The Denon's monitor outputs are all active at the same time, as long as the appropriate video input is there to "route" to the correct output.

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post #36 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 04:46 PM
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Hello to all, I am considering purchasing the 3310 but I am unclear as to whether the 'prep' function of the ABT 2010 video chip is on 'auto' or implemented at all in the 3310. Previous owner experiences haven't stated it explicitly. If this is contained then the DVDO edge video processor and the Denon receiver may overlap with key functions. The 'prep' function is designed to take progressive scanned video signals, and reinterlace then deinterlace for subsequent scaling.
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post #37 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 07:27 PM
 
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I got a bug today and thought about trying the 3310 out. Unfortunately, the 2 BB's I visited both claimed that they would not receive the unit in house until Aug. 20th. I understand the basics of logistics and distribution but I find it hard to believe that Best Buys on each coast have them in stock but a major metro area like Dallas/Fort Worth won't have any for another month. I thought about the 4310 but one fellow wouldn't budge on MSRP and the other guy only offered $100 off. I said sorry; no can do.
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post #38 of 3925 Old 07-15-2009, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolarOso View Post

When taking these decisions into account, along with a discounted preorder price on a 3310 (thanks santora), the extra cost was not worth it in my case. I was planning on upgrading my speaker set as well, so I decided that the money I saved on the 3310 vs the 4310 would go towards making a dent into that purchase. No regrets here.

- Frank

Quote:
Originally Posted by santora View Post

Honestly, the 4310 didn't offer me anything I needed. Sure, there were a couple of Oooo, that'd be cool moments. But I followed that with - do I really need it?

Mark

Frank & Mark, thanks to both for your thoughts. They were very helpful. Thinking along the same lines, I decided to join the 3310 club last night. Especially with the killer deal Electronics Expo had with their "employee pricing" promo (brought it down to a 3 digit number), it just seemed like the 4310 just didn't make sense. I figure the 3310 should be a great unit for me and huge step up from my pre-HDMI era Onkyo now. If I ever outgrow it it can always go in the bedroom, which doesn't have anything right now, along with the speakers I plan to upgrade eventually.

So, now I just have to wait for Electronics Expo to ship it out and for it to get here!

BTW, to anyone thinking about getting this, though it was supposed to end last night, for kicks tonight I tried entering the coupon on Electronics Expo and it appears to still work. Add the 3310 to your cart, enter the "employee" coupon on the cart page, and I think you'll like what you see. Since it's supposed to have expired, I guess they might cancel your order, but it's worth a shot.

-Brian
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post #39 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 05:31 AM
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Electronics Expo is incredibly SLOW to ship.


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post #41 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 09:48 AM
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I've had my 3310 for one day and am still slogging through setup. I had a question sparked by Santora's early post.

Here is the issue. I have a Comcast HD/DVR box that I connect to the 3310 with an HDMI cable. It was my understanding that all HDMI inputs to the 3310 were simply passed through without any processing. I would be very interested to see if the 3310 improved the video quality of standard def cable transmissions. How would I accomplish that? Am I wrong and there is a way to have the 3310 process the cable signal even though it is connected with HDMI, or do I need to connect the cable box to the 3310 another way?

Thoughts?
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post #42 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolarOso View Post

I was seriously considering the 4310 vs. the 3310, especially because of the "name your own price" feature at 6th ave, which would have allowed me to purchase the 4310 for about 16% off MSRP.

Here are the main extra features, and why I decided I didn't need them (from your list in the other thread):

- 10 more watts
Even with my old receiver that had less power than the 3310 I could blow the roof off if I wanted to; more power wasn't really needed.

- 21367 x 2 32-bit Floating Point instead of x 1.
- MultEQ XT
It would have been really nice to have MultEQ XT, but I decided that the setup in my livingroom is pretty optimal in terms of where speakers are placed, and the benefits I would get from enhanced acoustic correction would be marginal at best (I also consider myself more of a videophile than an audiophile). I ran the MultEQ setup yesterday and it sounds great.

- Extra HDMI out
This was one of those features where I would use it if it was there, but if asked if I REALLY needed it, the answer is no. I don't run a LCD and a projector in the same room, so the extra output would have fed either the garage or the kitchen. I decided that if I ever wanted to take that route I would just use the Zone 2 output to drive them (even if it is just analog), or I would pick up one of these: HDMI splitter

- Front HDMI input
I don't have any portable devices that use HDMI. Even if I did, it's not that hard to reach behind the receiver to plug in a HDMI cord. The inputs are all along the top of the unit, easy to just feel your way around. Or you can get a HDMI port saver, leave it plugged into an extra port in the back, and just reach for it when you have to plug something in quick.

- AL24+ on all channels instead of just L+R. I'm not clear if this is of much value.
- Denon Link 4
- Some extra legacy ins/outs
- HDMI SACD support
- Stereo/Direct Modes w/Pure Analog Path
- Neural Surround Mode XMHD
- Direct iPod support via front USB port
I wouldn't use these features at all

- Wide Screen 7.1 Mode
- Audyssey DSX
A standard 7.1 setup is good enough for me right now. If it became more mainstream, then maybe I would think of upgrading to this. I decided to wait for the technology to mature a little bit before making the move.

When taking these decisions into account, along with a discounted preorder price on a 3310 (thanks santora), the extra cost was not worth it in my case. I was planning on upgrading my speaker set as well, so I decided that the money I saved on the 3310 vs the 4310 would go towards making a dent into that purchase. No regrets here.

- Frank

As an FYI 16% off MSRP is only so so...wink wink nudge nudge.
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post #43 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 09:53 AM
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It was my understanding that all HDMI inputs to the 3310 were simply passed through without any processing.

Only if you want it to -- the new Denon models (except the entry-level 1610/590) all have the ability to do HDMI>HDMI video processing if you set it up that way.

See pg 48 of the manual for the settings -- you set the processing/scaling settings in the INPUT SETUP menu under "Video". You can do this separately by input, so for example you can set it so that the video processing is OFF for your Blu-Ray player (e.g. it passes through untouched) but for your cable box, it scales everything to 1080p.

Note that if you truly want to test the scaling of the Denon, you need to make sure the cable box is not doing any scaling first, so set it to "passthrough" or "native" (there should be some settings in your cable box for setting video output resolutions).

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post #44 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkrodgers View Post

So, now I just have to wait for Electronics Expo to ship it out and for it to get here!

BTW, to anyone thinking about getting this, though it was supposed to end last night, for kicks tonight I tried entering the coupon on Electronics Expo and it appears to still work. Add the 3310 to your cart, enter the "employee" coupon on the cart page, and I think you'll like what you see. Since it's supposed to have expired, I guess they might cancel your order, but it's worth a shot.

-Brian

That's a great price Brian. I didn't pay near that. I've never purchased anything through Electronics Expo, so I'll be interested to see how your experience was in the end.

Mark
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post #45 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkeithdc View Post

I've had my 3310 for one day and am still slogging through setup. I had a question sparked by Santora's early post.

Here is the issue. I have a Comcast HD/DVR box that I connect to the 3310 with an HDMI cable. It was my understanding that all HDMI inputs to the 3310 were simply passed through without any processing. I would be very interested to see if the 3310 improved the video quality of standard def cable transmissions. How would I accomplish that? Am I wrong and there is a way to have the 3310 process the cable signal even though it is connected with HDMI, or do I need to connect the cable box to the 3310 another way?

Thoughts?

batbig's dead on with his answer to this one. The only thing I'd remind you is that Cable boxes aren't made for people like AVSers. We generally dig in deep and try to optimize everything about our systems. That's one of the reasons we read/post here...

Most cable boxes are built for the lowest common denominator. Only one connection out at a time and options that are simplified (if not hampered due to DRM and contractual obligations). I know my Moxi box (original version) does not offer a pass through option on the output. It has to be a resolution. You can choose more than one, but that tends to make it freak out on occasion. So I leave it set at 720 and let the 3310 do the rest. You might have to do the same.

So unfortunately I think you're going to do a lot of trial and error here. Eventually you'll come across whatever settings work best for you.

Mark
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post #46 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 11:58 AM
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can a 3310CI owner please post some screenshots of the GUI? maybe a few shots of various menus, e.g. the auto setup menu, the input selection screen, etc.

there have been questions as to whether the 2310CI GUI is the same as that of the 3310CI, so it would be great to confirm.

also, can an owner please test whether turning "Video Conversion" to OFF for a given input will disable the GUI overlay-over-HDMI?

thanks!

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post #47 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 04:35 PM
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A big thanks to batpig and santora! Now I am psyched to get in and see what the 3310 can do to a cable signal.

I'll be happy to post some pics of the GUI, but I won't get to it until tomorrow. I get to it as soon as I can.
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post #48 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

can a 3310CI owner please post some screenshots of the GUI? maybe a few shots of various menus, e.g. the auto setup menu, the input selection screen, etc.

there have been questions as to whether the 2310CI GUI is the same as that of the 3310CI, so it would be great to confirm.

also, can an owner please test whether turning "Video Conversion" to OFF for a given input will disable the GUI overlay-over-HDMI?

thanks!

I'll grab some pictures this weekend. Too tired to set up the camera tonight.

Mark
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post #49 of 3925 Old 07-16-2009, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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And as I get ready for bed - a new firmware update! Not sure what it does but this is the second one since the unit shipped. The first update took about 30 minutes, while this one took 4. Gotta hit the Denon site and see if they list what kind of changes are going on...
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post #50 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

As an FYI 16% off MSRP is only so so...wink wink nudge nudge.

Pssst!

(They do have good prices... just happened to be out of stock on the old stuff when I was ready to order.)


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post #51 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 09:07 AM
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Is anyone aware of the differences between the 3310ci and the 990? They appear to have all the same features and their back panels seem to be the same, although it looks like the 3310 comes with a 2nd room remote not provided in the 990. I've seen references to the 3310 being "more customizable". Does anyone know what that exactly entails? I just like the slight cosmetic difference in the 990 better, (absence of odd new chin on the display frame), but it wouldn't be worth losing any functionality for it. Thanks.
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post #52 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 09:53 AM
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see my website:
http://batpigworld.com/models.html

AVR 990 and 3310CI are identical other than:

1. 3310CI has 3-source/3-zone (instead of 2-S/2-Z)
2. 3310CI gets the second remote

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post #53 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

see my website:
http://batpigworld.com/models.html

AVR 990 and 3310CI are identical other than:

1. 3310CI has 3-source/3-zone (instead of 2-S/2-Z)
2. 3310CI gets the second remote

Anything different in their interface that would allow different settings, or different customization? (They're the same price. I wonder why the 990 drops a zone?).
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post #54 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 10:11 AM
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Right now I'm considering the 3310 or the 4308. There is an excellent sale on the 4308 that seems hard to pass up. Of these two which would seem to be the better one. My first Denon AVR consideration and I'm blank when it comes to their AVR's. Help please!!!!
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post #55 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Anything different in their interface that would allow different settings, or different customization?

why don't you look up the word "identical"?

As I explain on my site, Denon has sold two parallel lines for a decade, the only difference is that the "three-digit" models are considered "consumer" version sold at Fry's, (now defunct) Circuit City, etc. The "four-digit" models are "custom installer friendly" versions that adds one or two extra features.

I don't know why they are the same price, typically there is a $50msrp difference (for example, 2310 vs 890, 1910 vs 790, etc).

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post #56 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Right now I'm considering the 3310 or the 4308. There is an excellent sale on the 4308 that seems hard to pass up. Of these two which would seem to be the better one. My first Denon AVR consideration and I'm blank when it comes to their AVR's. Help please!!!!

the 4308 and 3310 are in a totally different class, the 4308CI has nearly double the msrp! the 3310 slots in between the 2809 and 3808 in terms of power/build/features, so if you can get the 4308 for the same price it is pretty much the superior unit in nearly every way.

the only real advantage the 3310 will have is better video processing, PLIIz, and an extra HDMI input, and it is a little newer (so you don't have to pay for the "feature pack" to add Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume). the 4308CI is a hoss, it's phyiscally larger, weighs 42lbs (instead of 29lbs), 4-zone, component video output to zone 2, MultEQ XT, wifi built in, etc.

I guess it really depends on what type of buyer you are -- would you rather have the higher-end unit which is a couple of years old, or would you rather have the shiny new toy with the latest-and-greatest whiz-bang features?

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post #57 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

can a 3310CI owner please post some screenshots of the GUI? maybe a few shots of various menus, e.g. the auto setup menu, the input selection screen, etc.

there have been questions as to whether the 2310CI GUI is the same as that of the 3310CI, so it would be great to confirm.

also, can an owner please test whether turning "Video Conversion" to OFF for a given input will disable the GUI overlay-over-HDMI?

thanks!

Had a chance to take a quick video before I left the house this morning. I was in a rush, so the video quality is not that great (forgot to close the shutters so you see the reflection on the TV, camera isn't quite centered). Here's the video on youtube: Denon AVR-3310CI Menu Sample

Shot this one right after, shows what happens when you turn the video conversion off on an analog input: Denon AVR-3310CI Video Conversion Off

Hope those help clear some things up.

- Frank
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post #58 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 10:50 AM
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sweeeet....

good to confirm that "video conversion" needs to be ON to enable the GUI overlay.

thanks, Frank!

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post #59 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 11:18 AM
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why don't you look up the word "identical"?

As I explain on my site, Denon has sold two parallel lines for a decade, the only difference is that the "three-digit" models are considered "consumer" version sold at Fry's, (now defunct) Circuit City, etc. The "four-digit" models are "custom installer friendly" versions that adds one or two extra features.

I don't know why they are the same price, typically there is a $50msrp difference (for example, 2310 vs 890, 1910 vs 790, etc).

As you acknowledge, there is a "custom installer friendly" difference in the 3310. I'm trying to find out what isn't identical about that. I now see that your site speaks to why they carry two almost identical models, but now I'm trying to find, if they bothered to remove a zone for the same cost, what is also less customizable about it.
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post #60 of 3925 Old 07-17-2009, 11:19 AM
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the 3rd zone and the 2nd remote, that's it!

if you compare the product sheet PDF's, even though the 3310CI has a "CI" label and the 990 doesn't, the feature layout is identical. they both claim (bottom right of the first page) to have "Remote Installer Access via DPMS" and "PC Setup via Ethernet (Web Control), and on pg 2 they both claim "AMX/Crestron third party IP control support with RS-232".

The only difference is the BRANDING -- on the 990 product sheet, they call these sections "Others" whereas in the 3310CI product sheet they call these sections "Custom Integration", but they are identical!

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