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post #61 of 5499 Old 08-14-2009, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually I am talking about something different. I have all the speaker terminals on the 807 filled. Or at least 9 of them. I get sound from all the speakers which is different from what the manual states. And yes I have it configured right. There is no way possible to miss with the onkyo. It is as easy as just selecting the sound mode. In this case I choose Height.

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post #62 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

It is not as if I think height is necessarily bad, but I don't like it being derived from a DSP mode.

Come on, you can do it. "No joerod, I haven't heard PLIIz/DSP heights."

I watched Jurassic Park with height channels before making my latest receiver purchased, and I was very pleasantly surprised. If you're going to disregard certain surround configurations on virtue of a few channels being matrixed, then you haven't been in the home theater game very long.
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post #63 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 03:00 AM
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Hi,

I'm sorry reposting this question again, but as I'm not native english speaker answers are not clear for me.

So the question is:

Can Zone 2/3 preouts of 807 be used for external amplification of DSX height/width channels while using 807 for driving standard 7.1 channel setup (with Surr Backs) to have all 11 DSX channels working simultaneously?

If yes, how to setup this, as user's manual is not clear in this for me.

And finally one consideration. If there is only one 8 channel DAC inside of 807, I think there is no way how to achieve full 11 DSX channels setup.

Or am I wrong?

Thanks

T.
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post #64 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 06:09 AM
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Not to spurn more debate on this issue, but there is a fundamental problem in the 807 delivering power to 9 channels - the receiver only has 7 amps. My understanding was that activating either height mode resulted in the SRs being dropped (a la a second zone). If it's splitting amps to run two (or four) channels, it would likely be repeating those channels, which could certainly ruin any gained spatial effect if it distorts the perception of let's say front and rear.
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post #65 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Actually I am talking about something different. I have all the speaker terminals on the 807 filled. Or at least 9 of them. I get sound from all the speakers which is different from what the manual states. And yes I have it configured right. There is no way possible to miss with the onkyo. It is as easy as just selecting the sound mode. In this case I choose Height.

joe, if you run through the manual channel level trims, can you hear a distinct channel or are some repeated?
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post #66 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Not to spurn more debate on this issue, but there is a fundamental problem in the 807 delivering power to 9 channels - the receiver only has 7 amps. My understanding was that activating either height mode resulted in the SRs being dropped (a la a second zone). If it's splitting amps to run two (or four) channels, it would likely be repeating those channels, which could certainly ruin any gained spatial effect if it distorts the perception of let's say front and rear.

This is was a question I was wondering about yesterday. Unless and this is a big if could the 807 spilt 2 amp channels into 4 amp channels? Kind of the reverse of bridging amp channels. When doing this then being able to have 4 different signal outputs for the created 4 amp channels?

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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

joe, if you run through the manual channel level trims, can you hear a distinct channel or are some repeated?

This is an excellent idea! This will most certainly tell if the heights and SR channels are being combined. If they are combined then you are correct that it would most defintely not give a very accurate presentation of what was intended for a specific movie soundtrack.

Bill

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post #67 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

This is was a question I was wondering about yesterday. Unless and this is a big if could the 807 spilt 2 amp channels into 4 amp channels? Kind of the reverse of bridging amp channels. When doing this then being able to have 4 different signal outputs for the created 4 amp channels?



This is an excellent idea! This will most certainly tell if the heights and SR channels are being combined. If they are combined then you are correct that it would most defintely not give a very accurate presentation of what was intended for a specific movie soundtrack.

Bill

thank goodness we have joerod who knows and cares enough to help us learn more- thanks again for your work joerod!
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post #68 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Not to spurn more debate on this issue, but there is a fundamental problem in the 807 delivering power to 9 channels - the receiver only has 7 amps. My understanding was that activating either height mode resulted in the SRs being dropped (a la a second zone). If it's splitting amps to run two (or four) channels, it would likely be repeating those channels, which could certainly ruin any gained spatial effect if it distorts the perception of let's say front and rear.

I have a call into Onkyo. I guess we will find out soon.

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post #69 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

thank goodness we have joerod who knows and cares enough to help us learn more- thanks again for your work joerod!

Your welcome.

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post #70 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I have a call into Onkyo. I guess we will find out soon.

joerod, trying running the speaker trims - should give us a really quick answer. i know you know where it is in the menu by memory like a few of us nerds
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post #71 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 07:09 AM
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JoeRod you should change the thread title to Official Onkyo 807 thread. This feels like an official thread already!

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post #72 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

This is was a question I was wondering about yesterday. Unless and this is a big if could the 807 spilt 2 amp channels into 4 amp channels? Kind of the reverse of bridging amp channels. When doing this then being able to have 4 different signal outputs for the created 4 amp channels?



This is an excellent idea! This will most certainly tell if the heights and SR channels are being combined. If they are combined then you are correct that it would most defintely not give a very accurate presentation of what was intended for a specific movie soundtrack.

Bill

Got you Bill. I am up now and heading down there in a few. BTW, it isn't the SRs, it is the surround Backs. After working some on it at 2AM I did discover that you have the option in set up (almost like the Denon) of telling it if you are doing Height, Surround Back or Wide. You can also select both (Height and surrond Back or Wide (DSX) or surround Back. THat is why we really do need a true 9 channel receiver in the future. You really do need to choose either or because like Winston and Bill or mentioning it shouldn't be matrixing them together. I will find out in about a hour if that is the case though...

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post #73 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

JoeRod you should change the thread title to Official Onkyo 807 thread. This feels like an official thread already!

All in favor?

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post #74 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

joerod, trying running the speaker trims - should give us a really quick answer. i know you know where it is in the menu by memory like a few of us nerds

Will do.

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post #75 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, for those of you keeping score at home... When I do levels... I get the normal sound checks for Left, Center, Right, Surr Left, Surr Right and then Surround BACK Left and Surround BACK Right. Here is where it gets tricky... When it checks WIDEs, the sound comes out of the BACKs and the dedicated speakers for either Wide or Height. Same for the Heights. So, the only way to correct this is to tell it (the 807's Set Up Menu) you have either dedicated BACKs or dedicated Heights or dedicated WIDEs. Doing so will make ths distinct level sweeps correct. So yes, as we knew it is a true 7 channel receiver. I guess this is not a bad thing if you want to do full room (all channel) stereo for music. I still do not consider this a deal breaker for the 807. It is a definite step in the right direction and accomplishes a lot.

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post #76 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 03:23 PM
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Hi guys...

Can anyone please answer the question about external amplification for dsx heights and wides via zone preouts to have full 11 channel DSX setup?

Please...

Thanks a lot.

T.
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post #77 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 03:32 PM
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BTW, it isn't the SRs, it is the surround Backs. ...

Gotcha. I was close I was thinking Surround Rear but Back is the correct terminology.

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When it checks WIDEs, the sound comes out of the BACKs and the dedicated speakers for either Wide or Height. Same for the Heights. So, the only way to correct this is to tell it (the 807's Set Up Menu) you have either dedicated BACKs or dedicated Heights or dedicated WIDEs. Doing so will make ths distinct level sweeps correct.

So if you used the 807's preouts with an external MC amp or just a 2 CH amp I assume then you would have all channels Height, Wide and Surround Back with their own specific signals. Would this be correct?

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post #78 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Gotcha. I was close I was thinking Surround Rear but Back is the correct terminology.



So if you used the 807's preouts with an external MC amp or just a 2 CH amp I assume then you would have all channels Height, Wide and Surround Back with their own specific signals. Would this be correct?

Bill

Don't think there are pre-outs for the height channels...

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post #79 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't think there are pre-outs for the height channels...


You are correct. I am waiting for the day to come when we have a receiver with pre outs for the Heights or Wides. Then I will need an extra 2 channel AMP. There are zones though so I guess I need to experiment.

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post #80 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Don't think there are pre-outs for the height channels...

This I assumed and did not mention using Height channel preouts as there are not any. What I meant was if you used at the minimum a 2 CH amp say for the SB channel preouts making the 807 essentially a 9.1 receiver.

Bill

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post #81 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Okay, for those of you keeping score at home... When I do levels... I get the normal sound checks for Left, Center, Right, Surr Left, Surr Right and then Surround BACK Left and Surround BACK Right. Here is where it gets tricky... When it checks WIDEs, the sound comes out of the BACKs and the dedicated speakers for either Wide or Height. Same for the Heights. So, the only way to correct this is to tell it (the 807's Set Up Menu) you have either dedicated BACKs or dedicated Heights or dedicated WIDEs. Doing so will make ths distinct level sweeps correct. So yes, as we knew it is a true 7 channel receiver. I guess this is not a bad thing if you want to do full room (all channel) stereo for music. I still do not consider this a deal breaker for the 807. It is a definite step in the right direction and accomplishes a lot.

So for a beginner, when is this a bad thing? I only have speakers in one room. I'm going to use my speakers for 5.1 sound while watching movies and when I'm listening to music I'll be listening to the front speakers in stereo. Does any of this matter in that case?
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post #82 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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So for a beginner, when is this a bad thing? I only have speakers in one room. I'm going to use my speakers for 5.1 sound while watching movies and when I'm listening to music I'll be listening to the front speakers in stereo. Does any of this matter in that case?

Oh no. You are perfectly fine as are most users. I am only experimenting and looking for the limitations of the 807.

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post #83 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

This I assumed and did not mention using Height channel preouts as there are not any. What I meant was if you used at the minimum a 2 CH amp say for the SB channel preouts making the 807 essentially a 9.1 receiver.

Bill

That is what I will attempt to do and play with here shortly...

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post #84 of 5499 Old 08-15-2009, 06:25 PM
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That is what I will attempt to do and play with here shortly...

Cool.....take it easy don't work too hard.

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post #85 of 5499 Old 08-16-2009, 01:23 AM
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Anyone think the Polk TSi200 bookshelf speakers with the CS10/20 center are a good match for the NR807?
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post #86 of 5499 Old 08-16-2009, 03:17 AM
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I was running 4ohms my entire review. Good points though.

Joe, thanks for the great job with the review and all the work you're doing trying to educate us nutty AV'ers.

Very relieved to see were running 4ohms ! I've got 4ohms all around and have been a little anxious about it. Did you set the 807 up as running 4ohms ? Just asking because people always say "if you're running 4ohms, don't tell the receiver as it limits the output".
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post #87 of 5499 Old 08-16-2009, 05:55 AM
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Joerod,
Once again you have hit all the marks. BZ to you! This is definately a subscribe worthy thread.

Now, I am waiting for someone to do a (Letterman style) "Top Ten reasons to upgrade your trusty 805" post!
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post #88 of 5499 Old 08-16-2009, 05:59 AM
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Joe, thanks for the great job with the review and all the work you're doing trying to educate us nutty AV'ers.

Very relieved to see were running 4ohms ! I've got 4ohms all around and have been a little anxious about it. Did you set the 807 up as running 4ohms ? Just asking because people always say "if you're running 4ohms, don't tell the receiver as it limits the output".

Ah yes! These are the people who think they know better than the engineers who designed the amplifier. I'll take my directions from the designers, thanks all the same. ;-)
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post #89 of 5499 Old 08-16-2009, 06:07 AM
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Ah yes! These are the people who think they know better than the engineers who designed the amplifier. I'll take my directions from the designers, thanks all the same. ;-)

Understood...then again, I don't know how many times I've read on this forum that a THX Select receiver cannot drive 4ohm speakers...
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post #90 of 5499 Old 08-16-2009, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I updated my review because I failed to mention that you do get on screen volume with 1080p/24. I personally don't like it when I have guests over since it kinda removes you from the movie. Of course you can just turn Immediate Display Off and it is not an issue... I wanted to mention that since I had a few ask me...

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