Onkyo TX-NR807 Official Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Treespider View Post

Joe, thanks for the great job with the review and all the work you're doing trying to educate us nutty AV'ers.

Very relieved to see were running 4ohms ! I've got 4ohms all around and have been a little anxious about it. Did you set the 807 up as running 4ohms ? Just asking because people always say "if you're running 4ohms, don't tell the receiver as it limits the output".

I appreciate it. I told it I was doing 4ohms when I set it up. When you are playing with a new receiver you have to treat it like it will do what it is supposed to do. That might have been the case in the past but it does not seem to be the case with the 807. I will start from scratch today and see if there is a difference.

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post #92 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by victor_c26 View Post

Anyone think the Polk TSi200 bookshelf speakers with the CS10/20 center are a good match for the NR807?

They would be very good. No worries.

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post #93 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by legierk View Post

joerod,
once again you have hit all the marks. Bz to you! This is definately a subscribe worthy thread.

Now, i am waiting for someone to do a (letterman style) "top ten reasons to upgrade your trusty 805" post!

thx

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post #94 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Peter White View Post

Ah yes! These are the people who think they know better than the engineers who designed the amplifier. I'll take my directions from the designers, thanks all the same. ;-)

Good advice. Especially when turning on brand new product.

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post #95 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:50 AM
 
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For those who are curious whether the amp section measures up to the old 805, it doesn't. The 805 weighed 51 lbs, the same as the 876 does. The 807 is 39 and change, 2 more than the 806.
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post #96 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter White View Post

Ah yes! These are the people who think they know better than the engineers who designed the amplifier. I'll take my directions from the designers, thanks all the same. ;-)

Absolute performance isn't always (and is actually rarely) the designers' main concern. Also, not all 4ohm nominal speakers have the same impedance curve... some are far more complex within their pass band than others. If your AVR can drive your 4ohm speakers to reference levels in 6ohm/8ohm mode without shutdown/protect, there's no need to engage the current limiter. Current limiting allows AVR designers to cut costs by using a power supply that may not be able to keep up with complex loads since the large bulk of people are using 8ohm nominal loads.

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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

For those who are curious whether the amp section measures up to the old 805, it doesn't. The 805 weighed 51 lbs, the same as the 876 does. The 807 is 39 and change, 2 more than the 806.

I'd say you're probably right, but I still want to see the bench tests. It's possible that may be indicated by the new Select2 status, especially on the 4ohm side, but it's also possible that distinction is there for better differentiation from the higher-end pieces. While the SR806 was a step down from the SR805, it was not a huge step down with 8ohm nominal loads. I'd say this is possibly the category the NR807 falls into. The SR806 wasn't a weak amplifier, just weaker than the SR805 AND had a lot of other downgrades. If the NR807 fixes all of the deficiencies of the SR806 (the only thing I see that isn't addressed is Audyssey not being XT), but with the same amp section, I'd still call it a winner and a very solid value.

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post #97 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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We watched The Strangers in a completely darkened environment (my theater) at close to midnight. The sound with all the knocking, screaming and other effects was neck hair raising to say the least! If you are looking for a good title for Height sound this movie has so far been one of the best. Not to far into the movie the smoke alarm detector goes off into the Heights! As did many other scary noises. Talk about being immersed into the movie. We were all adults but everyone was taken aback. The Strangers was more scary because of the cool effect the Heights added. We watched it when it first came out using the Onkyo 886 PRO and without PLIIz speakers. My Wife even said I do not remember it being this scary! We are planning to watch a few other scary movies soon to compare. Vacancy and The Orphanage are on the shortlist. As are many more... The Height speakers can really IMPACT scary movies...

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post #98 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

Absolute performance isn't always (and is actually rarely) the designers' main concern. Also, not all 4ohm nominal speakers have the same impedance curve... some are far more complex within their pass band than others. If your AVR can drive your 4ohm speakers to reference levels in 6ohm/8ohm mode without shutdown/protect, there's no need to engage the current limiter. Current limiting allows AVR designers to cut costs by using a power supply that may not be able to keep up with complex loads since the large bulk of people are using 8ohm nominal loads.

My 805 drives my 7.1 system with all 4 ohm speakers, including Martin Logan electrostatics to eardrum vaporizing volume without a burp, set up as the manual instructs.
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post #99 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter White View Post

My 805 drives my 7.1 system with all 4 ohm speakers, including Martin Logan electrostatics to eardrum vaporizing volume without a burp, set up as the manual instructs.

I'm sure it does... and electrostats usually represent a fairly complex load. My comment wasn't to say large amounts of power can't be created even with current-limiting in place. I was really saying current limiting isn't always necessary since not all 4ohm loads are that complex with large dips into the 2-3ohm range.

And my SR805 does the same with a mix of 8ohm nominal loads and 4ohm nominal loads, though none are very complex, all in 6/8ohm mode.

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post #100 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I updated my review because I failed to mention that you do get on screen volume with 1080p/24. I personally don't like it when I have guests over since it kinda removes you from the movie. Of course you can just turn Immediate Display Off and it is not an issue... I wanted to mention that since I had a few ask me...

Joerod, what were your thoughts on an A/B basis with the denon 4310 and the 807? The lack of analogue inputs has me for the first time of venturing out of an exclusively onkyo house. I know the 4310 is a lot more....
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post #101 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Joerod, what were your thoughts on an A/B basis with the denon 4310 and the 807? The lack of analogue inputs has me for the first time of venturing out of an exclusively onkyo house. I know the 4310 is a lot more....

I will do short A/B look soon. It really is not fair to compare the 807 with the 4310 since they are not close in price. I will wait and do a more objective comparison with one of the newer Onkyos coming soon...

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post #102 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 09:17 AM
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JoeRod I can't wait for you to get the 3007 or 5007 which have 9 amp channels. I have read a lot about height channels and almost all are impressed who experience it. I am a gamer and Dead Space is one of the scariest games I have ever played. I think the height channels could really add to the suspense.

I would love to get pricing on the 1007, 3007, and 5007. Not that I will be buying one of them anytime soon, but for future reference!

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post #103 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I updated my review because I failed to mention that you do get on screen volume with 1080p/24. I personally don't like it when I have guests over since it kinda removes you from the movie. Of course you can just turn Immediate Display Off and it is not an issue... I wanted to mention that since I had a few ask me...

Sorry, what does this mean? Is it constantly showing the volume on the TV?
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post #104 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

JoeRod I can't wait for you to get the 3007 or 5007 which have 9 amp channels. I have read a lot about height channels and almost all are impressed who experience it. I am a gamer and Dead Space is one of the scariest games I have ever played. I think the height channels could really add to the suspense.

I would love to get pricing on the 1007, 3007, and 5007. Not that I will be buying one of them anytime soon, but for future reference!

I can't wait either!

I haven't even talked about games yet but playing Madden 10 has been fun hearing the crowd in the Heights. I will play some scary games today... I can only imagine playing Condemned late at night!

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post #105 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, what does this mean? Is it constantly showing the volume on the TV?

No. Only when you turn it up and turn it down... Didn't think I would have to clarify that one.

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post #106 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I will do short A/B look soon. It really is not fair to compare the 807 with the 4310 since they are not close in price. I will wait and do a more objective comparison with one of the newer Onkyos coming soon...

True - I guess the 3310 is the closest competitor from a pure price point. As usual, the Onkyo 807 seems to push the feature envelope.
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post #107 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Comparing the 807 and the 4310 I would say they sound a lot alike. The 4310 does have a better (nicer) user interface and plenty of more set up options to choose from. It also comes with two remotes (not sure if that is a plus or a minus) and also has multi channel inputs. The 807 has THX Loudness, two Sub outs and one remote (not sure if that is good or bad). The 4310 does do better scaling and has more picture adjustments. Still though, for the money the 807 to me is a better deal. They both have a lot of the same features and are close in watts. Anyone could and should be happy with either of them. I plan to do a more detailed comparison (hopefully soon) with a new Onkyo model that is nearly the same in price. That would be more fair and far more objective...

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post #108 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Comparing the 807 and the 4310 I would say they sound a lot alike. The 4310 does have a better (nicer) user interface and plenty of more set up options to choose from. It also comes with two remotes (not sure if that is a plus or a minus) and also has multi channel inputs. The 807 has THX Loudness, two Sub outs and one remote (not sure if that is good or bad). The 4310 does do better scaling and has more picture adjustments. Still though, for the money the 807 to me is a better deal. They both have a lot of the same features and are close in watts. Anyone could and should be happy with either of them. I plan to do a more detailed comparison (hopefully soon) with a new Onkyo model that is nearly the same in price. That would be more fair and far more objective...

One quick question... does the Audyssey MultiEQ seem the same as the version present on the SR806? Still the same 2x filter resolution for main channels? I wouldn't find 6 measurement positions limiting, but I would prefer the finer filter resolution since I've identified several different peaks in my room.

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post #109 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't had the 806 since last year and since then I have had to many receivers to remember specifically. I will have to say not sure and maybe someone else might know. Either way the Audyssey set up worked out nicely in my theater and that was pretty evident while watching The Strangers lastnight.

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post #110 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 01:00 PM
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They would be very good. No worries.

Glad to hear that. I have been putting off finally updating my setup for far too long. I was originally going to get a Denon 1910. My how things change.

1 or 2 more weeks and this baby is mine.
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post #111 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by victor_c26 View Post

Glad to hear that. I have been putting off finally updating my setup for far too long. I was originally going to get a Denon 1910. My how things change.

1 or 2 more weeks and this baby is mine.

Awesome!

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post #112 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 04:06 PM
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Okay, for those of you keeping score at home... When I do levels... I get the normal sound checks for Left, Center, Right, Surr Left, Surr Right and then Surround BACK Left and Surround BACK Right. Here is where it gets tricky... When it checks WIDEs, the sound comes out of the BACKs and the dedicated speakers for either Wide or Height. Same for the Heights. So, the only way to correct this is to tell it (the 807's Set Up Menu) you have either dedicated BACKs or dedicated Heights or dedicated WIDEs. Doing so will make ths distinct level sweeps correct. So yes, as we knew it is a true 7 channel receiver. I guess this is not a bad thing if you want to do full room (all channel) stereo for music. I still do not consider this a deal breaker for the 807. It is a definite step in the right direction and accomplishes a lot.

Thanks for testing this -- how does it vary though depending on your amp assign setting? I'm not sure how Onkyo does it, but as you know on the Denon there is an "Amp Assign" option where you can specify whether those 6th/7th channels are powering Wides, Height, Zone 2, Surr.Back, Bi-amp, etc.

I'm just confused how you could even get a test tone sweep that includes BOTH the heights and the rears, since it's only 7.1! Maybe Onkyo's system is just different

you da man, thanks for testing. Can't wait for you to get the 4810 which is a TRUE 9.1 channel DSX unit.

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post #113 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

One quick question... does the Audyssey MultiEQ seem the same as the version present on the SR806? Still the same 2x filter resolution for main channels? I wouldn't find 6 measurement positions limiting, but I would prefer the finer filter resolution since I've identified several different peaks in my room.

805 had MultEQ XT
806 dropped XT (only normal MultEQ) but added Dynamic EQ
807 still has MultEQ + Dynamic EQ, but adds Dynamic Volume

So, yes, the 806 and 807 both have regular MultEQ with 6 measurement points and 2x satellite filter resolution. Unfortunately, dropping MultEQ XT has been a common thing among mid-level receivers these days On the new Denons you have to go to the $2000msrp 4310CI to get XT now.

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post #114 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Thanks for testing this -- how does it vary though depending on your amp assign setting? I'm not sure how Onkyo does it, but as you know on the Denon there is an "Amp Assign" option where you can specify whether those 6th/7th channels are powering Wides, Height, Zone 2, Surr.Back, Bi-amp, etc.

I'm just confused how you could even get a test tone sweep that includes BOTH the heights and the rears, since it's only 7.1! Maybe Onkyo's system is just different

you da man, thanks for testing. Can't wait for you to get the 4810 which is a TRUE 9.1 channel DSX unit.

I plan to redo my set up so I can start trying DSX this week. I just wanted to be more familar with the set up before I began. Not sure how the onkyo knows what is is amping. Hopefully I will find out tomorrow.

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post #115 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Another comparison note... The onkyo 807 seems to update via the Ethernet much easier than the denon 4310 did. I have received a couple PMs from newer owners who are struggling getting it to complete it's update. The 807 did it in 20 minutes without so much as a hint of struggle... Denon needs to check in on this.

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post #116 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailort View Post

Hi,
Can Zone 2/3 preouts of 807 be used for external amplification of DSX height/width channels while using 807 for driving standard 7.1 channel setup (with Surr Backs) to have all 11 DSX channels working simultaneously?

The Zone2/3 speaker outputs can be reconfigured for Height/Width channels... so I guess it's logical to expect the same can be done on the Pre-Outs... so can it?

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Hi,
And finally one consideration. If there is only one 8 channel DAC inside of 807, I think there is no way how to achieve full 11 DSX channels setup.

Guess no difference from how they handle the Zone2/3 signals right?
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post #117 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:34 PM
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I am not sure if anyone else thought about this or not. I know the 807 isonly a 7.1 receiver....meaningit has a 7 channel amp. However joerod was able to power 9 speakers with it. I believe this is what you would call bridging. Guys do it with car stereo amps all the time. I am not sure if anyone else caught it or not, but joerod said all of his speakers are 4 ohms. That is impressive for the 807. But running it with 9 speakers and in esence "bridging" 2 of the channels would mean that those 2 channels saw a 2 ohm load. Very impressive! It sounds like the 807 may have a very impressive amp section, more so than it's weight would lead us to believe. I would love to see the amp section benchmarked!

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post #118 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by stereowise View Post

I am not sure if anyone else thought about this or not. I know the 807 isonly a 7.1 receiver....meaningit has a 7 channel amp. However joerod was able to power 9 speakers with it. I believe this is what you would call bridging. Guys do it with car stereo amps all the time. I am not sure if anyone else caught it or not, but joerod said all of his speakers are 4 ohms. That is impressive for the 807. But running it with 9 speakers and in esence "bridging" 2 of the channels would mean that those 2 channels saw a 2 ohm load. Very impressive! It sounds like the 807 may have a very impressive amp section, more so than it's weight would lead us to believe. I would love to see the amp section benchmarked!

It's not bridging, but kind-of the opposite, running speakers in series off of one amp channel. The two 4ohm speakers in series would become an 8ohm load. Bridging is basically the opposite, running one load off of multiple channels of amplification.

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post #119 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 07:48 PM
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To run in series you do not use the traditional + to + and - to - wiring. But then again, maybe the internal amp changes it internally. It would be an interesting question for Onkyo- to see how the amp is handling it.

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post #120 of 5482 Old 08-16-2009, 07:55 PM
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In the car audio environment using a single channel sub amp, a svc 4ohm sub shows a 4 ohm load. If you add a 2nd svc 4 ohm sub to that same 1 channel amp, the load drops to 2 ohm. If you have an amp that can handle the load, that's the best way to get the most power out of your amp. That is what I thought may be going on with the 807, running 9 4ohm speakers to a 7 channel amp- two of the channels would be run pretty hard, unless the amp can do something about the settings.

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