Pioneer SC-25 and SC-27 Receiver Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 5255 Old 08-14-2009, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought I would be the first to break ice on the new Pioneer SC-25 and SC-27 Receiver thread. I just got the SC-27 about a week ago and I love it. Went from a ONKYO 876 to a Pioneer to match up with my Pioneer pro 111fd and 23fd Elite Blu Ray player. The # 1 thing I love most about this receiver is that it Run Cool. That ONKYO was great but "MAN" did it throw out some HEAT!
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post #2 of 5255 Old 08-14-2009, 11:48 AM
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Finally some one started this thread. I have had my SC-27 for about 2 weeks and still playing with it. Love it so far!
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post #3 of 5255 Old 08-14-2009, 12:20 PM
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Just picked it up today still in box thought I was going to downsize but house sale fell through needed new one. what is main diff from sc07? going to set up now.

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post #4 of 5255 Old 08-14-2009, 12:24 PM
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Manuals, drawings, Protocols,
MCACC Software/Manual, CAD Drawings


140W x 7 (20Hz - 20kHz, .09% THD @ 8 ohms, All Channels Driven)
SC-25
DACs:
Wolfson WM8740 192 kHz / 24-bit DAC
ADC:
Burr Brown 192 kHz / 24-bit


Manuals
SC-25
SC-27

MCACC
MCACC Manual
MCACC Software (2.2)

CAD Drawings;
SC-25 and SC-27

IR and Hex Codes
SC-25 and SC-27

Pronto Files:
not available for the SC-25 yest but should be similar to the SC-05:
Not available for the SC-27 yet but should be similar to the SC-07:

Universal remote codes:
not available for the SC-25 yest but should be similar to the SC-05:
.MXF files

Not available for the SC-27 yet but should be similar to the SC-07:
.MXF files
RS232 Protocal Codes:
SC-25 and SC-27

Home Electronics Custom Install
Custom Install Files

HGM Updates and Procedures:
SC-27
SC-25

SC-27 back panel:

SC-25 Back Panel


Generic link to files
====================================================

Differences Between the SC-25 and SC-27
====================================================

Congratulations on your SC-27!
Welcome to the ICE AMP club

Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #5 of 5255 Old 08-14-2009, 12:34 PM
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If anyone has had an opportunity to listen to the SC-25 and the VSX-23THX side by side would you mind describing the differences in the way they sound ?
If there is little to no difference in the sound the VSX-23THX has plenty of features to make me a happy camper.

Since these are still brand new and availability is limited, can anyone comment on the sound quality differences between the SC-07 and last years VSX models ?

Regards,
Charlie

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post #6 of 5255 Old 08-14-2009, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Just picked it up today still in box thought I was going to downsize but house sale fell through needed new one. what is main diff from sc07? going to set up now.

Main differences I can see...

SC-27 vs. SC-07:
Removable Power Cord (SC-07 Non removable)
Multi-channel PQSL (SC-07 CD PQLS only)
Better iPod compatibility (album art etc)
48bit Deep Color (SC-07 36Bit)
Additional HDMI input on front panel (SC-07 No HDMI on Front panel)
One less Optical input. 4 optical inputs (SC-07 5 opt. 3 coax)
Rhapsody streaming

DACs, Amps, Power, and weight appear to be the same.
A nice upgrade in features from the SC-07

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #7 of 5255 Old 08-14-2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Main differences I can see...

SC-27 vs. SC-07:
Removable Power Cord (SC-07 Non removable)
Multi-channel PQSL (SC-07 CD PQLS only)
Better iPod compatibility (album art etc)
48bit Deep Color (SC-07 36Bit)
Additional HDMI input on front panel (SC-07 No HDMI on Front panel)
One less Optical input. 4 optical inputs (SC-07 5 opt. 3 coax)
Rhapsody streaming

DACs, Amps, Power, and weight appear to be the same.
A nice upgrade in features from the SC-07

Yes very nice I am over from the Denon camp. The only feature I wish it might have had was Dolby IIZ mabey a feature pkg in future. I just got it unpacked quite a beast starting to connect. Will give my impressions tommorow. Thanks for the welcome.

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post #8 of 5255 Old 08-15-2009, 07:31 AM
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Well got it working a little last night just for a short time. Need to go through the manual. Just tried a bd and Ipod and I have to admit i was amazed at the sound from those IcE amps. I did not think it would be so different. This is all without full set up. Have some erands and then doing full Macc etc. I feel honored to have been able to get one so soon they are hard almost impossable to find. Love what it does with Ipod sound and control and did not have to buy a dock.
If you guys have any advise let me in on it
thanks.

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post #9 of 5255 Old 08-15-2009, 08:59 AM
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william06, sounds like your enjoying it!

Yeah, these ICE Amps do sound special.

Doing MCACC, be sure to set the microphone up correctly for the best results.

There's a short writeup here from Ray, a HT installer and dealer.
-Proper Microphone position for calibration Ray
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...3#post16406993

In fact, you may want to check here as well, there's a lot of info that applies to your SC-27 that may save you some frustration or give you some good tips.

Have fun! Good timing! You got the weekend to play

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #10 of 5255 Old 08-15-2009, 10:01 AM
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Glad to see an owner's thread in the works on these new receivers.
Congrats to the new owners & welcome to Iceland!

Particularly interested in how these mate with the new Pioneer BD player with multichannel PQLS on HDMI. And how much of a difference does it make with it on compared to off? Audible? Subtle?

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post #11 of 5255 Old 08-15-2009, 11:21 AM
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Thanks for all the above info checking it out now. I just sold a Denon BD player and am in the market for a new one. I had the 05 for about 8 months and it was nice but got a good deal on the denon. Now I am looking at the 23 but also the oppo getting such good press and I like the fact it plays sacd and dvda over HDMI .

Any advise.

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post #12 of 5255 Old 08-15-2009, 11:33 AM
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To any owners of these receivers. Do you own a Toshiba X-A2 or 35 hddvd player that will send lossless DD+ to the receiver to be decoded. Does this receiver have the 05-07, 90 series glitch with the DD+ audio dropouts with Universal and Paramount titles?
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post #13 of 5255 Old 08-15-2009, 12:08 PM
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William06;
We want you to get the BDP23 so you can tell us about the Multichannel PQLS

Seriously, IMO,
-if you want SACD and DVD-A, the Oppo looks like a good deal, lots of people have them in combo with the SC series and are very happy with it.
-PQLS, the BDP23
-Just SACD, if you have one of the early release PS3s, that's supposed to be excellent.

One thing I'm sorry the SC-07 didn't have (it's not on the SC-27 either) is iLink.. PQLS on the SC-09 with the DSV59/79AVi is fantastic. (SACD/DVD-A/Cds/DVD)

Anyway you go, those Wolfsen DACs in your SC-27 will make it sound sweet!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #14 of 5255 Old 08-15-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

William06;
We want you to get the BDP23 so you can tell us about the Multichannel PQLS

Seriously, IMO,
-if you want SACD and DVD-A, the Oppo looks like a good deal, lots of people have them in combo with the SC series and are very happy with it.
-PQLS, the BDP23
-Just SACD, if you have one of the early release PS3s, that's supposed to be excellent.

One thing I'm sorry the SC-07 didn't have (it's not on the SC-27 either) is iLink.. PQLS on the SC-09 with the DSV59/79AVi is fantastic. (SACD/DVD-A/Cds/DVD)

Anyway you go, those Wolfsen DACs in your SC-27 will make it sound sweet!

I havent had the chance yet to play today better half keeps comming up with better things. I really am torn with this decision. But the little I have listened to it I totaly agree with you on the sound from this unit.
I might go for the 23 if I can find a decent elite with HDMI pqls for my sacd. Reasonable.
If not the oppo I guess. That sounds like a sweet machine a budget Denon A1.

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post #15 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 07:38 AM
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Well Guys I finally got it up and running last night late. It was a little daunting. I have had quite a number of receivers and for some reason this was a bit different. I did have one issuel. I could not get any sound or pic from my cable box. I tried everything. Finally I realized the HDMI chord fell out. Duh. I tried some bd and cable. I feel initially the Audio that comes out of this receiver seems amazing. Did the MACC just once and thanks to you referring me to those posts it went very well. Measurements seemd right on. Even my wife who really could care less said the clarity detail and voice. Were great. I thought when it had to it had a lot of deep punch too.

I have one issue with this receiver. There is no on screen display for status volume etc while watchin a movie or tv show. Is this right? I have become very used to that it could be a deal breaker. Am I missing somethin. I went through the manual several times. Other than that I am happy so far. Now going to try to access internet music.
I will dry the HDAX-2 with a DD+ for you some time soon.

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post #16 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I have one issue with this receiver. There is no on screen display for status volume etc while watchin a movie or tv show. Is this right?

Yep. True for all SC models

You can get onscreen display if you have an 8th gen or earlier Kuro plasma that you can connect with SR+. OSD has also been documented to work using Kuro HDMI Link with current gen Kuros or you *might* get it using Kuro Link depending on your display mfg. (Pioneer used to call Kuro Link - HDMI Control). Check Ch 8 in your manual for how to turn it on, etc.

Let us know if it works or not & which display you're using.

ss9001
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post #17 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 10:17 AM
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Well, I got the 25 yesterday, and hooked it up to my Klipsch Refernce system (63's, 64 and 62"s), and I am not that impressed with it. I am coming from the sound of the Anthem D2 with the PVA 7, which blows this amp out of the water. I demoed the 05 and the denon 3808ci yesterday also and could not tell a difference between the three. I listened in a theater room, so they were all playing on the same plane and source and content. The room correction and processing for the pioneer is ok, nothing like the Anthem, the Anthem is very indepth and takes some working knowledge, which I must say, I like being involved in the process. I am disappointed I thought the sound of the ICE amp was supposed to be wonderous and in my opinion, it fails compare to my old anthem gear. Need less to say I am going to take the 25 back and see about getting something else. Sorry to burst anyones bubble.
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post #18 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 10:22 AM
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Well, I brought home both a Denon 4310CI and a Pioneer Elite SC-27 this weekend. The Denon was nice, but many of the direct access features of my Denon 3805 were missing. I could no longer adjust speaker levels with the push of one button on the remote. The 4310 seems to require that you go the through the GUI to do this. By the way, the Denon has the nicest GUI I have seen and it can overlay over video for adjustments on the fly. I also could not figure how to cycle through various Surround modes as I could with my 3805 as in PLII Cinema & PLII Music. Once again it had to be done through the GUI. I did not much care for the remote that came with the 4310. Audessy set up was very nice and worked flawlessly. The big problem with the 4310 that I had was HDMI issues. When the GUI was on the HDMI connection would go out and would reacquire about every 15 to 30 seconds, and during a movie it would go out randomly. Due to this reason it had to go back to the store. I brought home a Pioneer SC-27 to try. This thing is a monster. Sound wise, I liked it better than the Denon, more punch to it. Both sound very nice though. The good news is that there are no HDMI issues with the Pioneer and many of the features that I liked such as direct access to surround modes, speaker level adjustments and such were available with the touch of one button on the remote. The remote is not the greatest, but serves its purpose, much better than the EL remote from Denon. The bad news, the GUI on the Pioneer is not nearly as refined as the Denon. Many features and adjustments are not available through the GUI. The GUI seems to be there for initial Setup and a few functions. It cannot overlay over video, so it cuts off a movie if you try to use it. Also many of the adjustments cannot be seen on the TV screen such as volume, speaker levels when adjusting from the remote or audio parameters, they only show up on the Receiver display. The MCACC setup works almost as well as Audessy. Another thing that I miss from the Denon is the ability to have A & B Surrounds, but because everything works, I will keep the SC-27 for now. I have 30 days.

Update:
At this point, I have decided to keep the Pioneer Elite SC-27. It sounds as good as the Denon 4310 if not a bit better, and sounds better than my Denon 3805 that it replaced. It does everything it is supposed to do. The menus are not as pretty as the Denon and I wish that more of the settings were on the OSD/GUI but these are not deal breakers. It is the sound and functionality that matters the most. Many of the functions that I like to get to quickly are on the remote with touch of one button, no need to go into the GUI such as the Denon. I did find the button on the Denon remote that lets you cycle through the all the channels but for whatever reason it would not show the Sub Woofer setting, that is what I use the most. As for MCACC vs Audessy, I used them both and both did a great job of setting the system up, no need for SPL Meter. Audessy may have had a slight edge, but not that much, plus I like the Pioneers ability to save different set up positions in memory for different seating positions. As said before, both Denon & Pioneer Elite Recievers are great, but this time the Pioneer suites my needs better, plus the Denon 4310 that I had kept loosing the HDMI connection, that was the deal breaker for me.

Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine
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post #19 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

To any owners of these receivers. Do you own a Toshiba X-A2 or 35 hddvd player that will send lossless DD+ to the receiver to be decoded. Does this receiver have the 05-07, 90 series glitch with the DD+ audio dropouts with Universal and Paramount titles?

I just played some of serenity, and Shreck lll, DD+ on xa2 through HDMI on the SC27 and I cannot believe it there were the dropouts. Never once on my Denon 4308 did that happen.

A couple of years or close I had a 94 and because of that I returned it after a week it was a deal breaker thenl. I really like this unit a lot and DD+ seems to be in the minority with the software companies anymore. Everything else is working great. Neural music, Internet music, BD, BDaudio,
DTS HD Master, I-pod fantastic. The set up for audio went smoothly thanks to the helpful hints I got here.
Two issues
1. I do not like that you do not have on screen status . This is important because I have a Front projection system for movies and my unit goes behind a drop down screen.

2. The idea that Pioneer has alowed the DD+ issue to go on so long with out a fix.

Other than that this is a pretty nice unit.

Still deciding weather to go for the 23 or the oppo 83
Love the 09 just a bit two expensive.

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post #20 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Yep. True for all SC models

You can get onscreen display if you have an 8th gen or earlier Kuro plasma that you can connect with SR+. OSD has also been documented to work using Kuro HDMI Link with current gen Kuros or you *might* get it using Kuro Link depending on your display mfg. (Pioneer used to call Kuro Link - HDMI Control). Check Ch 8 in your manual for how to turn it on, etc.

Let us know if it works or not & which display you're using.

ss9001
Steve

I use it with two displays I have a Toshba Rear Projection DVI with HDMI attachment, works fine. I also have a Panny 900 Projetor 720P but Takes a 1080/24 sig and downconverts it. Both are good eventually want to get 180 pj. So no on screen display kind of poor judgement on theyre part with all the bells and whistles they put into these units. I will have to see if I can get used to working without it for a week. I have a month.

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post #21 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon-XZ71 View Post

Well, I brought home both a Denon 4310CI and a Pioneer Elite SC-27 this weekend. The Denon was nice, but many of the direct access features of my Denon 3805 were missing. I could no longer adjust speaker levels with the push of one button on the remote. The 4310 seems to require that you go the through the GUI to do this. By the way, the Denon has the nicest GUI I have seen and it can overlay over video for adjustments on the fly. I also could not figure how to cycle through various Surround modes as I could with my 3805 as in PLII Cinema & PLII Music. Once again it had to be done through the GUI. I did not much care for the remote that came with the 4310. Audessy set up was very nice and worked flawlessly. The big problem with the 4310 that I had was HDMI issues. When the GUI was on the HDMI connection would go out and would reacquire about every 15 to 30 seconds, and during a movie it would go out randomly. Due to this reason it had to go back to the store. I brought home a Pioneer SC-27 to try. This thing is a monster. Sound wise, I liked it better than the Denon, more punch to it. Both sound very nice though. The good news is that there are no HDMI issues with the Pioneer and many of the features that I liked such as direct access to surround modes, speaker level adjustments and such were available with the touch of one button on the remote. The remote is not the greatest, but serves its purpose, much better than the EL remote from Denon. The bad news, the GUI on the Pioneer is not nearly as refined as the Denon. Many features and adjustments are not available through the GUI. The GUI seems to be there for initial Setup and a few functions. It cannot overlay over video, so it cuts off a movie if you try to use it. Also many of the adjustments cannot be seen on the TV screen such as volume, speaker levels when adjusting from the remote or audio parameters, they only show up on the Receiver display. The MCACC setup works almost as well as Audessy. Another thing that I miss from the Denon is the ability to have A & B Surrounds, but because everything works, I will keep the SC-27 for now. I have 30 days.

Update:
At this point, I have decided to keep the Pioneer Elite SC-27. It sounds as good as the Denon 4310 if not a bit better, and sounds better than my Denon 3805 that it replaced. It does everything it is supposed to do. The menus are not as pretty as the Denon and I wish that more of the settings were on the OSD/GUI but these are not deal breakers. It is the sound and functionality that matters the most. Many of the functions that I like to get to quickly are on the remote with touch of one button, no need to go into the GUI such as the Denon. I did find the button on the Denon remote that lets you cycle through the all the channels but for whatever reason it would not show the Sub Woofer setting, that is what I use the most. As for MCACC vs Audessy, I used them both and both did a great job of setting the system up, no need for SPL Meter. Audessy may have had a slight edge, but not that much, plus I like the Pioneers ability to save different set up positions in memory for different seating positions. As said before, both Denon & Pioneer Elite Recievers are great, but this time the Pioneer suites my needs better, plus the Denon 4310 that I had kept loosing the HDMI connection, that was the deal breaker for me.

Guys I hate to take up so much space but I have to agree with Gordon here. I had a denon 4806 for quite a while I really liked it but wanted a receiver to decode the new codecs. I tried the 94 as explained in my above post and bought the denon 4308CI. I did have the issues with dropouts not as much as gordon and other wise have the same concerns as he with on screen display. But this is a terrific sounding amp with a lot of user refinements and adjustments. Other than the DD+ with a defunct HDDVD all else works and not dropouts. I am pretty sure I am going to stay with it and Gordon I think your decision is a good one.

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post #22 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensmarcum View Post

Well, I got the 25 yesterday, and hooked it up to my Klipsch Refernce system (63's, 64 and 62"s), and I am not that impressed with it. I am coming from the sound of the Anthem D2 with the PVA 7, which blows this amp out of the water.



You mean you are comparing a setup close to $9-10,000 using one of the best processors ($7500) & a decent amp that can deliver its rated power to all 7 channels at the same time to a receiver at the $1500 price point and are disappointed????

I certainly would hope so!

That's a wholy unrealistic comparison even for Ice amps at these 2 widely different costs. About like comparing a Mercedes to a Chevy truck.

If you want a more realistic comparison for preamp quality & power output, try the $7000 Pioneer SC-09 receiver against your Anthem setup then tell us what you think. I'm a Pioneer Elite fan, own a lot of their gear including the SC-09 & even I wouldn't consider making the comparison you did. At the minimum try comparing with the SC-27 for gosh sakes.

Wyred4Sound makes a 7X125W Icepower amp & it costs $2995!

And don't worry, bubbles are not burst. No offense, but talk about unrealistic expectations....whew!

ss9001
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post #23 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 01:24 PM
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ensmarcum,

Your speakers by Klipsch have three woofers in parallel as do mine. This causes large impedance swings as frequency varies.

I have four RF-63s, an RC-64 and RS-7s cut at 50 Hz. The setup sounds great, but requires a good external amp and some tweaking. I use a Sunfire Signature amp (405x5) and a Velodyne SMS-1.

It takes a good amp to deal with the impedance swings. My former speakers, RF-7s with dual woofers were the same way. A load invariant amp helps a great deal IMO. The surround backs do fine on my SC-07.

Bill
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post #24 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post



You mean you are comparing a setup close to $9-10,000 using one of the best processors ($7500) & a decent amp that can deliver its rated power to all 7 channels at the same time to a receiver at the $1500 price point and are disappointed????

i certainly would hope so!

that's a wholy unrealistic comparison even for ice amps at these 2 widely different costs. About like comparing a mercedes to a chevy truck.

If you want a more realistic comparison for preamp quality & power output, try the $7000 pioneer sc-09 receiver against your anthem setup then tell us what you think. I'm a pioneer elite fan, own a lot of their gear including the sc-09 & even i wouldn't consider making the comparison you did. At the minimum try comparing with the sc-27 for gosh sakes.

Wyred4sound makes a 7x125w icepower amp & it costs $2995!

And don't worry, bubbles are not burst. No offense, but talk about unrealistic expectations....whew!

Ss9001
steve

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post #25 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 03:02 PM
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what a crazy weekend, I went from ordering an w4s ice amp and looking at pre/pro's when I had to stop the madness. I did not need the power of an external amp for my listening levels, so I went to Best Buy got them to take $300 off of an SC-25 and well here I am One quick thing to note over my Onkyo is the sound is so much clearer, the Onkyo was apparently muddy, but did not know until now...

I do have some video questions, I did not see any options in the setup menu for video options, can someone explain how the sc-25 handles video? I simply want pass through... but I do not see an option for this...
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post #26 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the trick on getting the 27 to output my info on my Laptop. I ran my Cable from my 27 TO My Dell Studio Laptop. Got the ports right but when it start to download. It times out. HELP
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post #27 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 08:39 PM
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To get the output from your SC-27 on your PC, you will need to download the required Pioneer software to see the results.

Bill
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post #28 of 5255 Old 08-16-2009, 10:47 PM
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So these elite receivers don't have any on screen display at all? i guess that doesn't really bother me cause i currently have a onkyo 705 and to get to the settings, like crossovers, it cuts the video and goes to its own menue screen. is the elite the same way? i do have a pioneer elite tv though.

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post #29 of 5255 Old 08-17-2009, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

..is the elite the same way? i do have a pioneer elite tv though.

Should be, yes

I've owned the 49 & 59TXi's & the SC09, and they all work the same way. You should see the setup menu on your TV.

Steve
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post #30 of 5255 Old 08-17-2009, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlraglin View Post

What is the trick on getting the 27 to output my info on my Laptop. I ran my Cable from my 27 TO My Dell Studio Laptop. Got the ports right but when it start to download. It times out. HELP

earl, what cable are you using? on previous gen units, we've found that they are a bit "picky" about cables...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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