Official Harman Kardon AVR 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2839 Old 12-05-2009, 08:02 AM
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After attempting to have my HK 520 repaired (Popping left channel-fixed, popping center and OSD menu dead-not fixed) I have given up and purchased a new AVR-3600.
I am setting the 3600 up and have a question. I am manually setting up the channel levels using a SP meter. Before I do I am supposed to set the crossover frequency for each channel. I have looked up the response frequencies for my speakers and my center and fronts have an LFE extension frequency (32 Hz Front, 65 Hz Center). I am not Bi-Amped so should I use this frequency or the low end of the response (44 Front, 85 Center). My sub is a SVS PB-10. Also, I saw some posts about a firmware update in the works. What is the latest firmware, my unit is date stamped Aug 2009.

Thanks!
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post #272 of 2839 Old 12-05-2009, 10:04 AM
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No firmware updates yet, I assume they'll be posted on product support site.
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Pr...x?PID=AVR+3600

Anyone have any ideas what's supposed to be included in the update? I have a 2600, not a 3600. No firmware posted there yet either.
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post #273 of 2839 Old 12-05-2009, 11:24 AM
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I have not found anything related to these receivers driving 4ohm speakers, particularly the 3600. My PSB Stratus Silveri main's are 4ohm while the C6i center is 8ohm, surrounds are 8ohm as well. I did see Mcode say they drive them fine. I'd like more clarification. Has anyone actually asked HK this ? My gut says it shouldn't be an issue.

- Chip
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post #274 of 2839 Old 12-06-2009, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtenn View Post

The fat PS3's won't bitstream the new codecs. Your receiver will say muli-ch PCM. You can check the output of the PS3 by pressing the display button on the PS3 remote and it should give you the info in the upper right hand corner.

Yeah I get that part - but as to mlai01 point. How do know if the receiver is downgrading to audio to DTS when the ps3 is outputting DTSMA? The OSD is displaying Multi-Channel PCM.

Is there a bluray disc that I could test the audio quality that shows a significant quality difference between DTS and DTSMA?
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post #275 of 2839 Old 12-07-2009, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maharajaverma View Post

Yeah I get that part - but as to mlai01 point. How do know if the receiver is downgrading to audio to DTS when the ps3 is outputting DTSMA? The OSD is displaying Multi-Channel PCM.

Is there a bluray disc that I could test the audio quality that shows a significant quality difference between DTS and DTSMA?

As previously mentioned, there is a ps3 button you can hit to display the current playing track. It will say eg "trueHD...and other info"
As far as your receiver is concerned, it doesn't know what the audio stream was originally encoded in.
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post #276 of 2839 Old 12-07-2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maharajaverma View Post

Yeah I get that part - but as to mlai01 point. How do know if the receiver is downgrading to audio to DTS when the ps3 is outputting DTSMA? The OSD is displaying Multi-Channel PCM.

Is there a bluray disc that I could test the audio quality that shows a significant quality difference between DTS and DTSMA?

I don't think picking PCM in PS3 downgrades the high def output. It just let the player decodes the lossless audio format to PCM and transfer it to the receiver. I doubt that you can tell the difference between DTS & DTSMA (unless you have a high-end 7.1 HT system) not to mention that these two audio options are hardly found in the same blu-ray disc.

For testing purposes, you may compare the SQ between outputting DTSMA through HDMI and coxial/optical, the latter method can only deliver DTS signal due to limited bandwidth vs. HDMI.
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post #277 of 2839 Old 12-07-2009, 09:28 AM
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Perfect! Thanks!
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post #278 of 2839 Old 12-07-2009, 12:04 PM
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After spending a good part of the weekend installing and reinstalling drivers and going so far as to reinstalling the OS, I found out how to circumvent the pink screen problem I was having when switching to HDMI bypass on my HTPC...I just had to turn the TV off, then on again :| I don't know why I didn't even bother to do that before...

I haven't been able to resolve the audio dropout problem yet...someone mentioned they were using Quintessential Player for audio without problems so I may try that, but iTunes and Foobar2000 are dropping ~1-2sec of audio for almost every track, still.

Barring that, though, I've been rather problem free (though I only have PS3 and an HTPC going through it lol)
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post #279 of 2839 Old 12-07-2009, 02:49 PM
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Even though I understand there are better upscaling algorithms out there, I have to say I'm fairly impressed with the upscaling ability of this receiver (2600 for me). We watched some old Xmas specials I've had in AVI format for quite a long time (Some probably date back to the old P-200 I had in the late 90's). They're blocky, grainy and gererally aweful TV rips. They look terrible when played on my main PC on the 22" monitor. For all but the worst ones, when played from the HTPC on the TV through the 2600, the quality is actually quite passible and not really any worse than regular TV. It makes me happy.

Rob
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post #280 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 06:12 AM
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so aside from the audio dropout issues via HDMI, how's the sound quality on these receivers? I was debating the Pioneer 919 v. 2600, but after reading about the skimpy amp in the Pio's, I think I'm set on the 2600. I prefer a warmer sound anyways and I hope the 2600 would be a good pairing with my Energy Take FPS's.
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post #281 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 07:27 AM
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Can someone post some good audio calabration settings for thier Dolby Volume from a HDDVR?
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post #282 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHolleman View Post

so aside from the audio dropout issues via HDMI, how's the sound quality on these receivers? I was debating the Pioneer 919 v. 2600, but after reading about the skimpy amp in the Pio's, I think I'm set on the 2600. I prefer a warmer sound anyways and I hope the 2600 would be a good pairing with my Energy Take FPS's.

I am sure you will not be disappointed with the SQ of 2600 especially if you like "warm" sound. I have tried Pioneer 1019, a higher model than 919 and the sound was a little thin and to my ears, it could not even come close to 2600 in terms of musicality, sound stage and overall tonal balance.

I have used my 2600 for over a month now and did not find any issue with it except for the 2 second audio drop when switching sources which I just don't care. It should match well with your Energy Take 5 as I have an Athena Audition series which were made from the same group of manufacturers.

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post #283 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai01 View Post

I have used my 2600 for over a month now and did not find any issue with it except for the 2 second audio drop when switching sources which I just don't care.

When you say audio drop when switching sources, what exactly do you mean? Have there been any cases of audio dropouts during movies whether they be regular DD or DTS HD/DD True HD? Any other video dropouts, etc.?


I am still a little interested in these receivers or the 2600/3600.

thanks...

<><

RTR
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post #284 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai01 View Post

I am sure you will not be disappointed with the SQ of 2600 especially if you like "warm" sound. I have tried Pioneer 1019, a higher model than 919 and the sound was a little thin and to my ears, it could not even come close to 2600 in terms of musicality, sound stage and overall tonal balance.

I have used my 2600 for over a month now and did not find any issue with it except for the 2 second audio drop when switching sources which I just don't care. It should match well with your Energy Take 5 as I have an Athena Audition series which were made from the same group of manufacturers.


I agree, I love the SQ of the 2600, I always found my Sony receiver a bit thin sounding and tinny. The 2600 has a nice warm, rich sound, even on my ancient Wharfedale Diamond III speakers. Speakers are next on my upgrade list. Hopefully by in the spring.
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post #285 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 11:34 AM
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Question about the 3600. I am coming from a Yamaha 5.1 receiver with about 100 watts per channel. I have some rather large speakers I am driving and the Yamaha seems to do fairly well with them. I want to upgrade to HDMI switching (finally!) but want to make sure the HK 3600 amps can handle my speakers.

My question is this: what speaker loads can the 3600 handle? I can't find this spec anywhere. Will it handle a 4ohm speaker load and what will the quoted power output be at 4ohm? Thanks!
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post #286 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai01 View Post

I am sure you will not be disappointed with the SQ of 2600 especially if you like "warm" sound. I have tried Pioneer 1019, a higher model than 919 and the sound was a little thin and to my ears, it could not even come close to 2600 in terms of musicality, sound stage and overall tonal balance.

I have used my 2600 for over a month now and did not find any issue with it except for the 2 second audio drop when switching sources which I just don't care. It should match well with your Energy Take 5 as I have an Athena Audition series which were made from the same group of manufacturers.


Thanks. in yours or anyone else that has the 1600/2600, is the extra 15w per channel and the GUI worth the upgrade over the 1600?
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post #287 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CHolleman View Post

Thanks. in yours or anyone else that has the 1600/2600, is the extra 15w per channel and the GUI worth the upgrade over the 1600?

I would vote for 2600 over 1600, not only does the former provides more reserved power for your speaker system, it also has Dolby Volume which 1600 is missing. This feature is very useful in balancing volume from different sources especially when you are watching TV programs. Read the 2600 reviews on the web to see the details. I always maintain the stance of buying receiver that I can afford with more power than my need in preparation of possible speaker upgrade in the future. Also, higher power AVR will drive speakers more effortless even at low volume, rendering much dynamics in sound with lesser harmonic distortion. My front floor standers have an efficiency of 93db and they still benefit from the more than enough powerful drive.

For some reasons, 2600 received a much better review than 1600 although they belong to the same series. Google for the reviews and see them for yourself. I would not save the small price difference (may be $200) and regret afterward. These HK series have prices coming down recently and you should be able to grab one at good price.
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post #288 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMAVADER View Post

When you say audio drop when switching sources, what exactly do you mean? Have there been any cases of audio dropouts during movies whether they be regular DD or DTS HD/DD True HD? Any other video dropouts, etc.?


I am still a little interested in these receivers or the 2600/3600.

thanks...

What I meant was that I lost the first 2 seconds of sound when I switch input source from one to the other as 2600 refreshes the audio handshake. I never have issues when watching movies (DVD or Blu ray) or enjoying music with HDMI connection via the AVR.

It seems that the X600 series have lesser HDMI handshake problem than the X54 models. The newer models also have USB interface which makes firmware upgrade like a breeze compared to the messy RS232 connection in X54s. I have tried different AVR including Denon, various pioneer models and even Elite VSX21 and eventually settle with 2600.

I have been using two other models of HK before and wanted to try other brands but at the end discovered that receivers at similar level can't come close to HK on the SQ department.

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post #289 of 2839 Old 12-11-2009, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai01 View Post

I would vote for 2600 over 1600, not only does the former provides more reserved power for your speaker system, it also has Dolby Volume which 1600 is missing. This feature is very useful in balancing volume from different sources especially when you are watching TV programs. Read the 2600 reviews on the web to see the details. I always maintain the stance of buying receiver that I can afford with more power than my need in preparation of possible speaker upgrade in the future. Also, higher power AVR will drive speakers more effortless even at low volume, rendering much dynamics in sound with lesser harmonic distortion. My front floor standers have an efficiency of 93db and they still benefit from the more than enough powerful drive.

For some reasons, 2600 received a much better review than 1600 although they belong to the same series. Google for the reviews and see them for yourself. I would not save the small price difference (may be $200) and regret afterward. These HK series have prices coming back recently and you should be able to grab one at good price.

thanks for the info. i really want the 2600, i was just curious as to how in depth the differences are, and your points are well taken. thanks.
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post #290 of 2839 Old 12-12-2009, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BBLV View Post

I am coming from a Yamaha 5.1 receiver with about 100 watts per channel

Right, that's what Yamaha claims...And, you can bet it puts out nowhere near that...Yamaha rates their receivers at one channel driven at 1khz last I heard...H/K rates their receivers at all channels driven, huge difference
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post #291 of 2839 Old 12-13-2009, 10:09 AM
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Just upgraded to an AVR 2600 yesterday after owning AVR254 for the past year. It really seems like they fixed all the little quirks I had over the previous model. We're really enjoying the Dolby Volume and HDMI bypass features.
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post #292 of 2839 Old 12-13-2009, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by |JuiceZ| View Post

Just upgraded to an AVR 2600 yesterday after owning AVR254 for the past year. It really seems like they fixed all the little quirks I had over the previous model. We're really enjoying the Dolby Volume and HDMI bypass features.

+1. I have given up on 254 and went for 2600, especially for HDMI bypass. Without this feature, 254 made my DVD play back looked worse when my elite 49 DVD player does a better job upscaling SD material to 1080p to my Kuro Pro 101.

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post #293 of 2839 Old 12-14-2009, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RĂ¿che 1 View Post

Right, that's what Yamaha claims...And, you can bet it puts out nowhere near that...Yamaha rates their receivers at one channel driven at 1khz last I heard...H/K rates their receivers at all channels driven, huge difference

I agree with regards to the 2008 and 2009 models, but he may be coming from an older Yamaha receiver and many of those had fairly robust amp sections that did well on the bench. To answer the question, the 3600 should drive pretty much anything.
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post #294 of 2839 Old 12-14-2009, 12:37 PM
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All I have to say is WOW. This my first H/K receiver. I came from a Yamaha. The first time I turned it on....I noticed a huge difference. Its that "warm H/K sound" everyone talks about. I can't explain it.... but I definitely like it and highly recommend it. I'm running 5.1 surround with (2004) Mirage FRX-9 (front) FRX-7 (rear) and FRX-C (center). These are mid-high end speakers and I finally got a sound out of them, that I could only dream of. All I can say is that I have not had any problems with the 3600. When your switching sources, you do get the second or two of delay, but that's normal and my Yamaha had that too. The HDMI by pass is a great feature. I also like Dolby Volume when watching tV at night.
I would definitely recommend the receiver.
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post #295 of 2839 Old 12-14-2009, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danchee View Post

Just got the AVR3600. Everything looked good for a while, then I started having issues with sound over HDMI. The receiver is connected to a Tivo HD via HDMI. At random times, it'll drop sound for a second and come back. Tried different HDMI cables, double checked the connections are good, etc... But no help. The PS3 works fine though, at least for the hour of watching a Bluray movie and it was fine. Any other suggestions?

I have had many problems with my TiVo HD properly communicating sound over HDMI -- not just with my AVR 2600, but with many devices from many makers. I believe this is more a TiVo problem than anything else, but the best fix is to set your TiVo to output PCM instead of Dolby Digital...i know it is not the BEST, but it is better to have the sound working 100% of the time in PCM than 90% of the time in DD...
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post #296 of 2839 Old 12-14-2009, 07:17 PM
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I just ordered the HK 3600 receiver last night.I am wondering if I will notice much of a difference from the HK 340 that I am using now.I'm sure the HD formats for blue-ray will be better but what about music?Will the extra power make much of an improvement?I tend to listen to my music loud from time to time.Thanks.
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post #297 of 2839 Old 12-14-2009, 07:26 PM
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Does anyone know of a remote IR sensor, other than the HKRMS-000 (HE1000A?) for the x600 receivers. I currently have an AVR-320 and my 3600 is on it's way.

Tried the remote IR sensor from my Pace PVR in the 320 and it does not work. I would like to find a sensor to plug into the IR in port on the 3600 and then use a 3.5mm stereo mini jack cable from the IR out port on the 3600 to my PVR.

The price of the HK unit seems high considering a sensor was included with my $229 PVR. I'll go with it if there are no other options but was hoping for something smaller and less expensive. The Pace sensor is the size of a nickel and is about 1/4" thick so is easy to hide, whereas I think the HK sensor is about the size of a deck of cards.

Thanks
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post #298 of 2839 Old 12-15-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai01 View Post

I output 7.1 DTS True HD on a movie from PS3 in bitstream into my 2600 but got no sound. The receiver displays the decode format correctly though. I am not sure if that its because I have a 5.1 speaker set up. I have no problem playing Dolby Digital HD in bitstream.

Wonder if anyone can enlighten me on this problem. If the issue is with my 5.1 setting, is there a way to play 7.1 DTS HD in 5.1?


I think you could also accomplish this by still connecting the xbox to the AVR, but enabling sound over HDMI to your monitor when you wanted to use the TV speakers. With this setup, you could use only the AVR speakers or only the TV speakers whenever you felt inclined one way or the other, without having to bypass things through your TV (something i do NOT recommend).

-Muffy
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post #299 of 2839 Old 12-16-2009, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mufatu View Post

I have had many problems with my TiVo HD properly communicating sound over HDMI -- not just with my AVR 2600, but with many devices from many makers. I believe this is more a TiVo problem than anything else, but the best fix is to set your TiVo to output PCM instead of Dolby Digital...i know it is not the BEST, but it is better to have the sound working 100% of the time in PCM than 90% of the time in DD...

I'm noticing that as well. Switched over to PCM over the weekend and have not experienced any drops at all.

PS3 issue went away after that as well even though I didn't change any of it's configs. Maybe it was a loose cable or something.

Now stupid question time - Is there a way to pass HDMI signal from Tivo to the TV with the HK off?
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post #300 of 2839 Old 12-16-2009, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danchee View Post

Now stupid question time - Is there a way to pass HDMI signal from Tivo to the TV with the HK off?

No...

Just my $0.01...
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