Official Harman Kardon AVR 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2835 Old 02-23-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmtz View Post

I currently own a Pioneer Elite VSX-21, and have a PS3, DirecTV HD DVR and Apple TV hooked up via HDMI and then going out to a Samsung 52A650. I have had issues with the Pioneer freezing up to the point where I can't even turn it off manualy, I have to unplug it for it to start working again. I bought it at Best Buy and replaced it for a new one but it is having the same issue. I went back to Best Buy to ask if this is common and they told me it is not and that it is probably a bad batch. This issue does not happen very often but is very frustrating when it does. When the Pioneer is working fine I have no issues whatsoever. I am thinking about replacing it for a 2600 or 3600. I have read that the HK drops sound when changing audio sources (eg. watching a movie and then going to commercials), the Pioneer does not drop sound when it changes audio sources. I have never owned a HK, should I replace the Pioneer? Thanks in advance for any opinions/recommendations.

The audio drop-outs when switching sources only lasts a few seconds while the avr detects what the incoming signal is then decides what to output. For me, this isnt a issue or deal breaker. As far as replacing your pioneer with a HK. No brainer, You just can't beat that signature HK sound. You might want to go to best buy and alternate listening to the two. I think you will agree. Good luck.
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post #632 of 2835 Old 02-23-2010, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by griffs theater View Post

The audio drop-outs when switching sources only lasts a few seconds while the avr detects what the incoming signal is then decides what to output. For me, this isnt a issue or deal breaker. As far as replacing your pioneer with a HK. No brainer, You just can't beat that signature HK sound. You might want to go to best buy and alternate listening to the two. I think you will agree. Good luck.

For the record, I've had 3 H/K receivers: 310, 340, and 354 and have NEVER experienced more than a second of audio sync delays when switching sources. I've never experienced an audio sync issue switching channels from the same source or switching from video to ads and back. Of course, I could be the lucky one, but I doubt it.
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post #633 of 2835 Old 02-23-2010, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by drzoom1 View Post

Of course, I could be the lucky one, but I doubt it.

I have had 354 for a year and a half and am as "Lucky" as you! no problems...

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post #634 of 2835 Old 02-23-2010, 07:40 PM
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thanks for the advice, another problem is I can't find a store in San Antonio that carries the 2600 or 3600 to compare the Pioneer and HK, Best Buy doesn't carry HK.
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post #635 of 2835 Old 02-23-2010, 09:48 PM
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Glad they took care of those HDMI handshake issues

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Pr...x?PID=AVR 1600

Any ideas on 2/3600 updates?
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post #636 of 2835 Old 02-23-2010, 10:14 PM
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I really seem to like the idea of these avr's, and their features. This updating via usb seems like a very nice feature as well. Reading this thread might mislead potential buyers, like me, with the different problems listed. But I'm sure much of my worries would come from the "worst cases" out there. Am I right? I will probably reread this thread, as I have another month or two to make a decision. I don't know. I'm not really familiar with all the different brands, so I am trying to do as much research as possible. Is there another thread about these avr's I have missed that I should look at?
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post #637 of 2835 Old 02-23-2010, 10:26 PM
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just a though...
sometimes I experience audio dropout from my hd-pvr, especially when I watch recordings and go ff or back
has anyone tried this?
connect pvr to hk: hdmi-video and coax/optic for audio source
since hd-pvr (cable) does at dd5.1 the most, that should be sufficient, and solve the audio dropout, right?
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post #638 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tntomek View Post

Glad they took care of those HDMI handshake issues

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Pr...x?PID=AVR 1600

Any ideas on 2/3600 updates?

Funny... I registered my avr 1600 and signed up for product updates and received no notification of this. Plus, I later bought an AVR 3600 and registered it, but the site was buggy and there is no way to tell (that I can find) what I have registered on their site or to know if the registration went through or not. ANyone know how to look up your registered products on their site to make sure it worked?
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post #639 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 07:21 AM
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Just wanted to follow up an earlier post. Got my 3600 from HK about a week ago as a replacement for my 354. I emailed them regarding a possible handshake issue, and they immediately just offered a free upgrade to the 3600, $50 in shipping later, and I have it, not bad in my opinion, especially since I was satisfied with my 354, just had a few minor 'issues' I wasn't sure were even problems with the AVR or other components. Either way, no issues, sound is a little better, a tad more power. The bass to the sub seems a little clearer, tighter. The extra setup options, HDMI passthrough, etc. are great.
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post #640 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VampyreGTX View Post

The extra setup options, HDMI passthrough, etc. are great.

Just a word of caution. If you are planning to use HDMI bypass, make sure you verify that the AVR is not clipping blacks and whites. My AVR 3600 clips both in HDMI bypass mode but does not clip when it is disabled.

Still hoping and asking that others check this out using a black level and contrast test pattern. It is so easy to do. It would be nice to know if this is a universal problem or just a random defect, though I expect it is a common problem for the 2600 and 3600. It seems to be a problem on many other receivers (other than HK) as well.

Sean
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post #641 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmtz View Post

thanks for the advice, another problem is I can't find a store in San Antonio that carries the 2600 or 3600 to compare the Pioneer and HK, Best Buy doesn't carry HK.

You may consider to get one online, just make sure that the supplier is an authorized HK dealer carrying the manufacturer's warranty.

I actually owned a VSX 21 for a while and compared it with HK2600 and ended up picking the latter, primarily for the great tube-like HK sound. The 2 - 3 second audio drop is not an issue to me with HDMI connection. I like the option of customizing audio settings for each input source, which I think the Elite is lacking. I also prefer the look and build of HK over the somewhat plastic feel on the facet of 21.
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post #642 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by reisb View Post

I currently have the HK AVR520 and am looking to upgrade to have HDMI switching and HD sound.

Would SQ and power equivalent be 2600 or 3600?

Anyone have any idea? 520 was 75W several years ago.

2600 and 3600 are identical dimensions and 1lb difference. The 520 is 5lb heavier. Don't know if PQ ratings/quality has gone up or down since the 520.
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post #643 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

If the EQ programming works as it should, it should actually provide a more natural/true sound because it adjusts for the acoustics in your room and speaker placement/deficiencies as well. This is not to say that HK's EZset works as it should. It gets close on speaker distance and balance and crossover when I compare to my speaker specs and readings with my SPL meter, but I'm still trying to decide if the EQ is better on or off.

I ran EZ Set EQ and the results sounded good. Speaker distances were a little off but the crossovers did not agree with the speaker specs at all. I set them at the manufacturers specs and then calibrated the speakers again with an SPL. The results were better still. Then I did a comparison with EQ on ad EQ off and to my ears EQ off sounded better.
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post #644 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 05:39 PM
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I think this would be the correct place to post this question. I have the AVR 510. I loved it. But the composite video out hasn't worked in a couple years so I can't use the OSD. Secondly the low frequencies seem to be gone, both from the sub out and the regular speaker level outs. I talked with HK about this and they couldn't figure it out. Something is probably wrong. So I'm in the market for an upgrade.
I don't have the money for a high end unit so the AVR 254 is looking good to me. Has the basic features and HDMI compatability I want. I have been reading alot about the problems with this and other units but figured for $250 (refurbed on Ebay direct from HK) I can't go wrong. I really just need a simple receiver with HDMI until all the manufacturers figure out all these bugs. The technology that has come out over the last few years can't keep up with itself.
After looking around at other manufacturers I keep coming back to the 254. It seems to have better features, better sound and cheaper price.
Thoughts?
Thanks
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post #645 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 05:41 PM
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How do you get them to upgrade your 254/354 receivers to the new 2600/3600 receivers? I just ordered from their ebay store a 254, but if i can get in on the upgrade replacement, im all for the newer stuff. How does it work and what do you have to do?
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post #646 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 05:59 PM
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Sorry. I should have searched first. Found a couple threads on the 254 and an "official" thread. But now that it's here, if anyone has any input, fire away.
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post #647 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmtz View Post

thanks for the advice, another problem is I can't find a store in San Antonio that carries the 2600 or 3600 to compare the Pioneer and HK, Best Buy doesn't carry HK.

Thats right.... I forgot best buy stopped selling HK and started selling Denon.
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post #648 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reisb View Post

Anyone have any idea? 520 was 75W several years ago.

2600 and 3600 are identical dimensions and 1lb difference. The 520 is 5lb heavier. Don't know if PQ ratings/quality has gone up or down since the 520.

You can go to www.harmankardon.com and look at the specs of the x3600 models. I believe the 3600 is more along the lines of what you are looking for. There has been alot of changes since the 520.I think you would be happy with either the 2600 or the 3600. Happy shopping.
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post #649 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disneyfun1 View Post

How do you get them to upgrade your 254/354 receivers to the new 2600/3600 receivers? I just ordered from their ebay store a 254, but if i can get in on the upgrade replacement, im all for the newer stuff. How does it work and what do you have to do?

It's all based upon warranty and stock on hand. If you are having problems with your 254/354 you can call HK customer service and they will decide what to do. They will either send you a refurb, a new 254/354, or a 2600/3600. Im not sure what all the deciding factors are, but I believe its based on stock on hand.
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post #650 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 06:49 PM
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I have a 2600, with a slim PS3 and a DishNetwork VIP722 DVR connected. Should I use the bypass mode on either, both, or neither?
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post #651 of 2835 Old 02-24-2010, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

Just discovered a major bug in my 3600, and it is a surprising one. I've only had the receiver for 2 weeks now and have been very happy with the sonic performance versus my returned 354. I decided to run through a basic video calibration this weekend and was perplexed that I could not adjust black level or contrast beyond the video range of 16 to 235. No matter what I did with TV adjustments, no detail was visible above 235 or below 16. This was not a problem with my 354 even though it had no HDMI bypass setting. I just turned off all video processing on the 354 and I could adjust my TV full range (0 to 255) with the black level and contrast controls.

I am using HDMI bypass with the 3600, therefore the video should look the same and respond the same to TV video adjustments when I run the HDMI directly to the TV. It does not. When I bypass the AVR entirely (running HDMI directly to TV), I am again able to adjust my TV for full range. Next I ran the HDMI through the AVR again but this time I turned off the HDMI bypass and made sure all AVR video settings were off. Voila, I have full range control over the TV again. It appears that the true bypass mode on my 3600 is HDMI bypass "off".

Has anyone else discovered a similar problem or has anyone confirmed that they have full range control of their TV with HDMI bypass enabled ??? I am using black level and contrast patterns from the free AVS HD test disc and running it on my Panasonic BD player. I've done a full calibration using this test disc and a colormeter (i1 Display2) and I know it works as it should. I'm really curious if this is a random defect or a systemic problem with the 3600.

Does it make any difference if you try turning on your BD player or your AVR first? Maybe try one way, then the other? How about the color space/color format setting in the BD player? Is it set to 'auto' or something? Maybe try setting 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 or whatever specifically? Maybe some other 'auto' setting is causing the HDMI handshake to go 'not-so-right'?

Shouldn't make any difference, but I don't know...just some more ideas for you to look into if you haven't already.

...Hope it gets solved

I want Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!
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post #652 of 2835 Old 02-25-2010, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disneyfun1 View Post

How do you get them to upgrade your 254/354 receivers to the new 2600/3600 receivers? I just ordered from their ebay store a 254, but if i can get in on the upgrade replacement, im all for the newer stuff. How does it work and what do you have to do?

Here's how I exchanged in good conscience. I bought a refurb AVR 354 from Harman Audio on ebay and decided a week later I really wanted the AVR 3600 instead (buyers remorse). I returned the AVR 354 to Harman Audio and bought the AVR 3600. My faulty initial choice only cost me about a $40 for shipping the AVR 354 back to Harman Audio.
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post #653 of 2835 Old 02-25-2010, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsandvb View Post

Does it make any difference if you try turning on your BD player or your AVR first? Maybe try one way, then the other? How about the color space/color format setting in the BD player? Is it set to 'auto' or something? Maybe try setting 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 or whatever specifically? Maybe some other 'auto' setting is causing the HDMI handshake to go 'not-so-right'?

Shouldn't make any difference, but I don't know...just some more ideas for you to look into if you haven't already.

...Hope it gets solved

I don't have any doubt that my AVR 3600 clips both blacks and whites in HDMI bypass mode. And because it clips exactly at the video reference levels of 16 and 235, it is hard not to believe that it is a designed in limitation of the AVR... which I hope can eventually be fixed via firmware. I did play around with settings on both the TV and my BD player but nothing changed the fact that the AVR was clipping and nothing changed the points at which it clipped. When I connect HDMI directly to the TV, I am able to see full range (0 to 255) again by adjusting black level and contrast on the TV. Same is true if I simply turn off the HDMI bypass mode.

Sean
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post #654 of 2835 Old 02-25-2010, 07:27 PM
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I am not familiar with the terms and specs you use in describing the black/white levels. I am just a guy researching avr's. Can you briefly describe what this "effect" is and how serious it is. Do these numbers make a big difference? Is it a deal breaker?
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post #655 of 2835 Old 02-26-2010, 01:39 PM
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Have not been able to run my 2 fronts and subwoofer with my avr 3600. Is it possible?
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post #656 of 2835 Old 02-26-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verby View Post

sometimes I experience audio dropout from my hd-pvr, especially when I watch recordings and go ff or back

Sorry to beat this to death, but I was considering the purchase of a 2600 very soon, and that's the first I've seen where audio takes a few secs to come back after FF or RW.

So to be clear, if you're watching a show from the DVR, and FF through a commercial and press play, the video starts, but it takes a few seconds for the audio to come back? Does this happen every time? What HD PVR do you have? Can anyone else confirm or deny this? (I have a SA 8300HD btw)

Again, sorry to bring this up again. I mean, a few seconds to switch input or resolution I can handle, but this sounds really annoying to me. Just wanted to know this before I buy.
Thanks!
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post #657 of 2835 Old 02-26-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

I don't have any doubt that my AVR 3600 clips both blacks and whites in HDMI bypass mode. And because it clips exactly at the video reference levels of 16 and 235, it is hard not to believe that it is a designed in limitation of the AVR... which I hope can eventually be fixed via firmware. I did play around with settings on both the TV and my BD player but nothing changed the fact that the AVR was clipping and nothing changed the points at which it clipped. When I connect HDMI directly to the TV, I am able to see full range (0 to 255) again by adjusting black level and contrast on the TV. Same is true if I simply turn off the HDMI bypass mode.

Is this something that you can actually see when watching a movie or television? I agree that this is something that should be fixed but I wonder about the practical effect. I will get out my AVS HD disk tonight and check if this holds true on my 2600.
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post #658 of 2835 Old 02-26-2010, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alinford View Post

I have a 2600, with a slim PS3 and a DishNetwork VIP722 DVR connected. Should I use the bypass mode on either, both, or neither?

I have HDMI bypass enabled for my Fat PS3 and Xbox360. My Tivo HD has bypass disabled. I also disabled audio equalization on all 3 these inputs. In theory bypass will turn off the receiver's scaler so you don't have double image processing going on and consequent image degradation. Both the PS3 and Xbox360 already output 1080p via HDMI but the Tivo HD only upscales to 1080i so I figured it wouldn't really hurt image quality.
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post #659 of 2835 Old 02-26-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMMY_NEUTRON View Post

Here's how I exchanged in good conscience. I bought a refurb AVR 354 from Harman Audio on ebay and decided a week later I really wanted the AVR 3600 instead (buyers remorse). I returned the AVR 354 to Harman Audio and bought the AVR 3600. My faulty initial choice only cost me about a $40 for shipping the AVR 354 back to Harman Audio.

I had a 254 that developed a problem after about six months where it would go into protect mode when it powered on. However, if I turned it back on immediately after it shut off it would power on normally. I put it down to a speaker with the polarity reversed. so I checked all of my speakers but did not find anything. Next, I changed out the surge suppressor but that did not help either. Over the next 6 months I lived with the problem as it got progressively worse. I'd read about the 2600's and 3600's coming out so I figured if I waited long enough I could get an upgrade. Well, after a little over a year (14 months) I contacted HK and got an RMA.

Mind you, I'd had a 247 before the 254 and had gotten that replaced under warranty twice but was never offered an upgrade to a 254. When I got my second 247 I sold it and used the money to upgrade to the 254.

I digress. Well, again I was not offered an upgrade but was told that I would receive another 254. I had even been monitoring HK's ebay store thinking that I could judge the supply of available 254's and submit mine at the right moment to get a 2600. I could not have been more wrong. When I found out that I was getting another 254 I called HK directly to request a 2600 upgrade. I related my past experience but alas the free upgrade was not in the cards. So, in the end I sold the replacement 254 and used it to buy a 2600.

The moral of the story is that in order to get a free upgrade you need a combination of luck and probably at least 3 warranty replacements, or an issue that HK knows that a firmware upgrade won't fix.

That being said, I am quite pleased with the 2600 but wonder about something that has happened 3 or 4 times since I've had it these past 2 months. What it is is that I've seen the TV screen go black for 15-30 seconds and then come back on. The phenomenon seems to have occurred randomly. I can not pin it to any particular action. I guess I should pose the question to HK. I just don't want to have to send another one back. It's expensive at $50 a pop.
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post #660 of 2835 Old 02-26-2010, 05:00 PM
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FWIW: I just had my 354 replaced with a 3600, didn't even ask for it, and they gave me a return shipping label paid in advance.

My cousin in town did the same, but with a 254 and received a 2600 just today. No extra charge, didn't even ask for it.

Still having issues with the OSD @ 1080P and my LG TV going into "Invalid Format" mode. 720P on down works like a champ though.

Wii, xBox360, PC, iPod all work great at 720P and lower.

Still working on it though, it's been about 10 minutes
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